Debate and Discussion

"It's not that I don't trust you... I just don't trust THEM!"
Aurora Moon at 9:46PM, Dec. 17, 2008
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I wasn't sure if this could be an valid discussion topic… or just belonging in general chat.

but I thought it'd fit in here better.

So here goes–

I'm sure we've all had moments with Boyfriends/Girlfriends/Parents/Relatives/Whatever giving us this cliched line: “It's not that I don't trust you… I just don't trust THEM!”

To me, this just simply feels like an copout line. To me, it clearly sounds like they don't really trust you in that regards even though they're pretending to.
Don't you agree?

For example, this hypothetical question:

Say you're a very level-minded invdvinal who's 18 years old or older. You've never smoked, drank, or done anything else stupid. You don't even have the desire to do any of that crap, not even to “fit in”. Everyone who's ever been close to you knows this fact very well.
You haven't gone out in a while, and you're craving a little bit of social interaction. So much to your delight you've been invited to an party with some of your friends. You tell your relatives/or parents that you're going to it. But all of a suddenly they get worried, and attempts to pressure you into not going. They can't ground you, or forbade you, since you're already living on your own as an adult. They know that you're not the type to do anything stupid… yet, they have no real rational reason why you shouldn't go.
They tell you “I trust you, but I don't trust them.”
Now, you're the type who will easily leave the party right away if anybody was to ever try to pressure you into doing anything stupid. plus, you have your friends to back you up if anything should go down. and again, you don't drink.
Yet, your parents are implying that they don't think that you don't have that strong of a will and would suddenly crumble under pressure at this one party out of the many parties you've been to in the past.

don't you think that would be offensive?

Alternative scenario, which was an simlar thing that actually happened to me at one point:
You've been going to this highly profile massage center. They do everything from steam rooms, herbal body scrubs, facial masks… and of course, massage. They not only get rid of the kinks in your body… but manages to find a way to make constant headaches go away for at least two weeks though the art of massage!
So you're not only going there for pleasure… you're going for your own health.

This Massage center is very highly professional, and they make it very known in their standards that there are certain things that they will NOT do. and that if their masseurs have done anything… we as customers are to report them. Any massagers who have indulged in some suspicious behavior are then immediately fired, or at least they say this is what their policy is.

Yet, your boyfriend/girlfriend doesn't want/like you going there at all, period. They don't like the idea of random people touching your body, even if it isn't sexual. or, they worry that one of the massaguers would give you an “happy ending”, like in those rumored Chinese massage centers on the internet.
And of course by “Happy ending” they mean that it might end on a very sexual note.
your boyfriend/girlfriend says that they trust you, but that they don't trust those massage centers.
Yet, for you to get an “happy ending”, you'd have to consent to it… right? otherwise that's just rape/unwanted molesting… and certainly not a “happy ending”!
if your boyfriend/girlfriend was worried about the fact that you MIGHT get an “Happy ending”, this means they think you're the sort that would consent to somebody else other than your boyfriend/girlfriend touch you like that in such a way. That means that they think you would cheat on them in an massage center.
Therefore, that wouldn't be called trust at all?

Then that line would be utter crap.

Is that line even valid in ANY situation, or is it basically just copout for when somebody doesn't want to admit that they don't trust you at all? That's what I'm wondering.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
ozoneocean at 10:38PM, Dec. 17, 2008
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So, "It's not that I don't trust you… I just don't trust THEM!" could mean not only that someone is concerned for you, but also that they think you're a naive incapable idiot? Or it means they don't trust you, they're just too cowardly to say so? :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
Product Placement at 11:29PM, Dec. 17, 2008
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It's not about you it's about them you say? Sounds just like the typical: “It's not you, it's me” breakup speech.

Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
ipokino at 7:11AM, Dec. 18, 2008
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The boyfriend/girlfriend…drop like a hot potato. Trust is crucial, control is not!
The parents…they're being typical parents…but also not trusting. When my daughter turned Sixteen I basically handed her her “Freedom Papers” as by then I knew she had as much morality implantation as she was ever going to accept and told her to enjoy her life and that I'd be there to help her get her feet back under her if and when she needed.
Worked pretty good. She's a happy 23, single and free, no kids in tow and has a tech job making good cash!
Sometimes trust just works best.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:02PM
Senshuu at 11:30AM, Dec. 18, 2008
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In my experience, it's a huge copout from an overly worrisome and relatively hypocritical mother.

I know what I'm doing. She doesn't. I've never done anything bad or had bad friends, and I don't ever intend to.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:27PM
Aurora Moon at 5:13PM, Dec. 18, 2008
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Thanks for responding. =)

And I was actually told by certain peoole that it was ONLY me who thought that lame line was an copout.

Clearly that's not the case. =P
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
megan_rose at 5:42PM, Dec. 18, 2008
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This reminds me of when I was just starting college, still living with my parents. I didn't drink, smoke, have sex, or do anything that might be considered bad by anyone's parents.
I was at a party of a friend of mine who also didn't drink or smoke. I told my parents I was too tired to drive home, and would just stay at his house overnight.
They said no.
I couldn't really think of why they would say this. It's not like I was gonna sleep with him (I'm a lesbian and they've known it forever). There were no drugs or alcohol, no rowdy people. Heck, we're all comic nerds!

But I think what it came down to was that while they trusted me, they really didn't trust him yet. I don't know if they thought I'd befriended a secret rapist or something, but once they got to know him, there were no more hangups.

Even weirder is, when I was in high school, they had no problem with me sleeping over at my girlfriend's house (and they knew we were dating).
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:59PM
arteestx at 9:47PM, Dec. 18, 2008
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Aurora Moon
“It's not that I don't trust you… I just don't trust THEM!”

….Is that line even valid in ANY situation, or is it basically just copout for when somebody doesn't want to admit that they don't trust you at all? That's what I'm wondering.
Just to argue the other point, let's not pretend that there's no such thing as groupthink. You don't have to be a weak-willed, spineless, or naive idiot to be susceptible to it. All of us rational, level-headed, clear-thinking people are vulnerable. So I do think it's possible to be more concerned about “them” than “you” at times.

And from a brain development standpoint, teenagers have not completely developed the ability to regulate their emotions. So I can definitely understand why parents might be concerned that their otherwise perfectly-behaved child might do something irresponsible in a different setting and be concerned about “them” and not “you”.

As to the massage example, that's just weird. At some point you have to assume the other person is an adult and get over your own issues and fears, esp. if the other person has never given any reason to think they might cheat. Heck, go get a massage yourself if you have that big of a concern.

But if you're not a parent talking to a teen, then yeah the line does come across as a big copout.

Xolta is not intended for anyone under 18 years old.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
Senshuu at 12:04AM, Dec. 19, 2008
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My mom wouldn't let me sleep over with some college friends (all anime nerds, as a part of anime club) last year. I was 21.

It was because she didn't know them, and thus had no trust.

But I knew them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:27PM
bravo1102 at 7:16AM, Dec. 19, 2008
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If the parent trusts the child, they don't need to know or trust the others as they know the child will make the right choices.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
SpANG at 8:32PM, Dec. 20, 2008
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Is it so hard to believe that you will ever be in a situation that is beyond your control? The more faith YOU put in your friends, the less control you'll have on your own life. I was a pretty level-headed guy in my teens/20's, but I can now think back on to situations that could have gotten me seriously hurt.

Besides that, there are things in this world like roofies.

And no, you do NOT know your friends like your parents/boyfriend/girlfriend/whatever knows you. These people have invested a lot of time getting to know you, and there is usually no way you could know these people you want them to “trust” that much.

Bottom line: If you are over 18, tell then to get over it and do what you want. The consequences are yours. If you are under 18 - too bad, stop whining, get over it.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Senshuu at 12:08AM, Dec. 21, 2008
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If things like insurance weren't lorded over me, I'd tell them to get over it, sure.

I need a job. I thought this fancy-shmancy degree was supposed to get me one, like, right away.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:27PM
Aurora Moon at 6:58PM, Dec. 21, 2008
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SpANG
Besides that, there are things in this world like roofies.

And no, you do NOT know your friends like your parents/boyfriend/girlfriend/whatever knows you. These people have invested a lot of time getting to know you, and there is usually no way you could know these people you want them to “trust” that much.

Bottom line: If you are over 18, tell then to get over it and do what you want. The consequences are yours. If you are under 18 - too bad, stop whining, get over it.

And if you happened to have friends you've known for more than 4 years with you? watching your back and stuff?

Then that part of the objection would make no sense to me.

and plus, didn't I hear a while ago that there was actually ways to prevent roofies being put into your drink and food even without some life-long friends to back you up?
http://party-pills.blogspot.com/2007/11/club-drugs-ecstasy-roofies-special-k.html
things you can do to prevent someone from giving you a club drug without your knowledge:
Always keep your drink with you.
Never take a drink from someone you don't know and trust.
Watch out for your friends' drinks.

Also, I was talking about situations where the said person who reviced that line was 18 or older only. If you're a younger teenager then obviously your objections wouldn't count as unfair as that sounds.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM

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