Debate and Discussion

"What do you know? You're just a kid"
Aussie_kid at 6:47PM, March 23, 2008
(online)
posts: 591
joined: 1-1-2006
I'm sure that at one stage or another in our lives, we have gotten this comment from someone unwilling to even consider someone they think of as a ‘kid’ may know better than they do. However, there can be some truth to that. In our youth, sometimes we think we know a lot, but are then humbled when we discover we don't. Teenagers who move out of their parent's homes immediately and then discover they have no clue about taking care of themselves are a good example.

So is there any fact to this statement that adults are better at any problem than a ‘kid’ would be? Drunkduck, what's your opinion?
Insanity Complex: We may not be insane, but we like to think we are
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:11AM
StaceyMontgomery at 7:42PM, March 23, 2008
(offline)
posts: 520
joined: 4-7-2007
I suppose that kids, by definition, are less experienced. But “What do you know? You're just a kid” is a poor excuse for actually telling someone why they are wrong.

It is one of the logical errors, isn't it? The Genetic Error is when you impeach the source without addressing the argument.

as in:
“2+2=4” said the kid.
“Oh what do you know? You're just a kid!”

See how useless that is? Do they even teach people the logical errors in school? Oh well.

I would prefer a conversation with a kid any day. My chances of learning something are higher with kids.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
simonitro at 9:26PM, March 23, 2008
(online)
posts: 609
joined: 1-14-2006
In this time and age, you cannot underestimate the youth. Even though, they're still young but some could understand what's going on.

In this generation, kids are growing up looking smarter because of the technology and stuff. The “What do you know? You're still a kid” is a stupid excuse as Stacy mentioned.

However, there's a different how the child would grow depending the culture, country, and atmosphere the child is growing in. The fact is, the kids that are growing up nowadays are becoming rude. My nephew is an 8 year old kid who would say the words: “Fuck you!” and does know what it means. Still, it depends on how the parents raise their kids.

At the same time, they're getting too much knowledge, and it is better to limit them in this stage because we don't want them to over-exhaust and over-expose themselves onto this world in a young age that'll affect them later on. They also need experience. They do need protection.

Still, you shouldn't underestimate the youth. They could humilate you without even knowing that you got humilated by them.


Enjoy… Las Vegas-y
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:38PM
subcultured at 10:03PM, March 23, 2008
(online)
posts: 5,392
joined: 1-7-2006
i wish i grew up in the age of the internet… i remember writing letters and taping radio when i wanted to relisten a song…
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
ozoneocean at 9:57AM, March 24, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,995
joined: 1-2-2004
subcultured
i wish i grew up in the age of the internet… i remember writing letters and taping radio when i wanted to relisten a song…
That's not realy relevant man… Times and technology always change.

Of course there's truth to the idea Aussie Kid, but it depends on the context. Older people will have more experience and stored knowledge and so can look at many situations and ideas from many more angles and perspectives. I know when I compare my younger self to my older self how true that is: I'd look at a difficult problem then and not see many solutions to it, just a couple of way out ones that'd be pointless because of the time and effort required… Now I can look at the same problems and solve them quickly and efficiently, using minimal time and effort.

Where the “just a kid” thing falls down is when it shuts off a source of creative alternatives, or a stream of updated knowledge of which the “adult” is not fully aware and suspicious.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
HippieVan at 6:00PM, March 24, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,412
joined: 3-15-2008
Quite honestly, except for the level of experience adults have, I don't think there is much difference between the ages. I am fairly young and I know that I still have a lot to learn, but some adults don't accept that they also have a lot to learn, and that it isn't humiliating to learn it from someone younger than them. I often find myself correcting adults, even teachers.
On another note, I prefer having conversations with young people because they don't try to give you advice and they have not completely given up on life and fun like many older people I know have.
Duchess of Friday Newsposts and the holy Top Ten
Have a comic milestone, a community project or some comic-related news you’d like to see in
a newspost? Send it to me via PQ or at hippievannews(at)gmail.com!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:48PM
ozoneocean at 2:33AM, March 25, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,995
joined: 1-2-2004
Hippie Van
Quite honestly, except for the level of experience adults have, I don't think there is much difference between the ages.
What would you know? You're just a kid!
lol!

Seriously though, till you're actually older, how can you really speak for the adult perspective? Older people have a lot more going on than just experience; they actually think differently. That's a biological fact… The younger you are, the less knowledge and experience you tend to have, but you've also got a of other things influencing your thinking as well- there's all the things that hormones and changing bodies do, and all that enormous pressure to conform to a peer group that influences so much of your thinking that you don't even think about all the ways in which it does.

And that doesn't start and stop with teens either, it starts when you're a wee little kiddie and continues all the way into your twenties. Many people still feel the effects of that well into their 60s. But as you get older those pressures do become less, and you know so much and have experienced so much that you're not dazzled by spectacle and first impressions to the same degree- the person becomes more thoughtful and sceptical.

…The process can tend to repeat though… There's a saying, I can't remember how it goes but the way I think about it is this:
At first you know nothing. Then you think you know everything. Then you realise just how little you DO know and how much more yet there is to learn. Then you get comfortable in the few things you actually know and don't want anymore. Then you go back to knowing nothing and being amazed by everything again. lol!
-not necessarily a linear process.
–And depending where the “kid” and “adult” are along that line, the phrase will have quite different implications. ;)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
kyupol at 6:24AM, March 25, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,712
joined: 1-12-2006
I think that teenagers/children are an impulsive bunch. They havent really matured yet in things like decision making and controlling their emotions and thinking in a logical pattern.

For the most part since again I reiterate that THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS to the rule. I had this friend tho at an early age (12), was RESPONSIBLE for enrolling his younger siblings.

Also I must say that there are so-called adults who seem like they havent matured past the teenager stage. You know, especially the type who would easily dismiss stuff even before doing any research on it.

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
lothar at 9:05AM, March 26, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,299
joined: 1-3-2006
subcultured
i wish i grew up in the age of the internet… i remember writing letters and taping radio when i wanted to relisten a song…

even if it's irrelevant i wish to dissagree with Sub . i even remember trying to send those tapes in the mail and heving them reach my freind all smashed by the postal machines. but that was the great thing . i am so glad that i didn't have the internet when i was younger , or else i would have spent most of my time looking at porn , as it was i had to search for it in dumpsters and such. so maybe i still wasted my time.

kids can be more insightfull than adults , their brains are open and just sucking in information. this also makes them more prone to propaganda and religion , and then they get stuck that way , and thats what we call “adult”

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
bobhhh at 11:50PM, March 26, 2008
(offline)
posts: 893
joined: 5-12-2007
First of all i know lots of adults who are abject morons, and unfortunately i seem to have worked for most of them at one time or another.

Certainly children know quite a bit about their world, something adults seem to lose sight of once they round 35.

However I would also add that until youre hair begins to fall out, you recieve youre first prostate exam or people you know and love begin to become feeble and die, you really don't know much about being an adult.

That doesn't make anyone smarter, but it does mean we need to pay attention to each other a bit more.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
ozoneocean at 1:53AM, March 28, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,995
joined: 1-2-2004
bobhhh
However I would also add that until youre hair begins to fall out, you recieve youre first prostate exam or people you know and love begin to become feeble and die, you really don't know much about being an adult.
My paternal Grandfather died in his 80s'. He never experienced the first two and barely even the last (we're a long lived bunch), so by your definition he was never “adult”.

I don't accept that in any way, shape, or form. It's just another version of “you're just a kid”, but using mostly superficial parameters.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
SomaX at 3:01PM, March 30, 2008
(offline)
posts: 271
joined: 2-8-2007
I saw the title of this thread and had a flash back 2 years ago to when I was in 6th grade. I don't remember exactly what was happening at the time, but I remember my homeroom teacher (total bitch I might add) saying “What do you know? You're just a kid.” And I remember smiling, and saying “What do you know? You're just an adult.” Then, she just kind of walked away. That's about all I remember. lol
~*~
#253 in Comic Book/Story #344 Overall ~*~ #383 in Comic Book/Story #517 Overall
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:50PM
DAJB at 3:10AM, March 31, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,462
joined: 2-23-2007
The older you are, the less you think young ‘uns know.
The younger you are, the less you think old-timers know.

’Twas ever thus!
;-)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
Jinachi at 4:38AM, April 5, 2008
(offline)
posts: 83
joined: 1-21-2007
I can see the argument from both sides here:

the elders see youths as a threat like taking drugs and all that stuff (despite the fact that its a minor group) and so don't want to see their society that they had built up go to waste, the expression comes from youths having their own opinion which is against the eldars. Eldars see this opinon and throw it away because youths don't have enough experience and so should not be able to contribute.

But youths are people as in the Dr. Suess book Horton hears a who “a persons a person no matter how small” a person has a right to speech and to contribute and so does youths
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:09PM
plas at 4:08PM, April 5, 2008
(offline)
posts: 47
joined: 4-5-2008
I had this happen to me alot when I was back in high school. I remember one specific instance where a teacher of mine proposed a debate for the class, with most of them agreeing with her. But when I spoke up in opposition to her argument I was met with the standard, “Well you're just a kid. You don't have the experience to make that statement.” The actual question in debate isn't really entirely relevant here but let me just say that, about 7 years on I still think my point held water.

As far as whether or not “What do you know? You're just a kid” is true or not. Well it depends entirely on relevance to what is being stated. Though I believe that “kids” sometimes make statements that really can't be made without experience to back them up, there are alot of times when they hold a more unfiltered perspective of the world that allows them to view things more objectively. Adults sometimes let their bias get in the way of honest discussion which leads to misunderstanding and, in some cases, produces results which are counterproductive.

Despite all of that though, I think one thing that we really need to consider is the impact this has on the “kid.” One thing no adult should be doing is putting down a childs opinion on anything, especially not in such an oppressive manner as saying “What do you know? You're just a kid.” There really has to be a better way to say it that shows the “kid” that they are not viewing it in the right way without putting them down. Striving, instead, to show them a better way to view things without making them feel they are not being considered because of their age, which just breeds resentment and the feeling that they are not being heard. After all, and this is going to sound rather cheesy, “kids” are the future and adults should be nurturing them to form opinions and, more importantly, to debate and consider both sides of the coin rather then telling them they can't consider things until they are older.

Something I've always thought, even when I was younger, was that experience does not automatically breed wisdom. It's simply arrogant for anyone to believe that someone does not have a right to state their opinion, even if they are young. Not taking the time to step back from your own bias and consider both sides of the coin, in my opinion, causes a lot of major problems in this world that could easily be solved just by taking a few steps in the other persons shoes. If we don't instill that idea in people when they are young then we have no one but ourselves to blame when an individual grows up unwilling to consider any opinion other than their own as valid.
I has no picture :(
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:46PM
Hawk at 9:56AM, April 6, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,760
joined: 1-2-2006
plas
I had this happen to me alot when I was back in high school. I remember one specific instance where a teacher of mine proposed a debate for the class, with most of them agreeing with her. But when I spoke up in opposition to her argument I was met with the standard, “Well you're just a kid. You don't have the experience to make that statement.” The actual question in debate isn't really entirely relevant here but let me just say that, about 7 years on I still think my point held water.

Yeah, that does seem like she was totally copping out. I'm sure grown-ups have protected their egos with that reasoning on numerous occasions.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Aurora Moon at 9:17AM, April 7, 2008
(offline)
posts: 2,630
joined: 1-7-2006
Well said plas. :)

Couldn't say it better myself.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
ozoneocean at 10:30PM, April 7, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,995
joined: 1-2-2004
Plas
I had this happen to me alot when I was back in high school. I remember one specific instance where a teacher of mine proposed a debate for the class, with most of them agreeing with her. But when I spoke up in opposition to her argument I was met with the standard, “Well you're just a kid. You don't have the experience to make that statement.” The actual question in debate isn't really entirely relevant here but let me just say that, about 7 years on I still think my point held water.
Well I'll say that she was probably right. If she could beat you down with such a simple line, whatever you said probably wasn't very convincing or compelling. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
plas at 11:53AM, April 8, 2008
(offline)
posts: 47
joined: 4-5-2008
i made the mistake of making a point by starting it off with “in my experience…” never got past that as then she pulled the “I don't think you've been around enough to say something based on your experience.” I was totally shot down. I made it up though, by not showing up to class very often… I wouldn't suggest following my example in that case ;P



still passed the class tho, with a B if I remember correctly.
I has no picture :(
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:46PM
blntmaker at 1:26PM, April 8, 2008
(online)
posts: 340
joined: 6-2-2007
Great topic! This is exactly why I created BLNT.

Young people in the information age are indeed afforded much more intelligence than previous generations. No question. That just makes them more aware of what's around them.

Also…nobody likes to be called a NOOB, right? That's essentially what you're saying when you make a blanket statement like that.

Still, no amount of blogging, Googling, YouTubing or MySpacing - no technology invented on this Earth will ever replace a personal experience. That is the one thing most kids, given their lifespan…do not possess.

You have to define what a “kid” is first, then decide what a “kid” knows about specific things: Falling in love, fiscal responsibility, being politically active, social issues that affect the world or our nation, caring for someone who is sick, losing a loved one, taking risks - or simple things like the value of hardwork - respect for life - human decency.

A desktop, click of the mouse and tap on a keyboard will never replace the hands-on approach to life itself. Being able experience life's trials and being to come out on the other side whether scathed or unscathed.

My mother would say, “you ain't grown until you start payin' bills” - You know, I used to laugh at that…but now that I have a mortgage and a family to support, you gain a different perspective on life.

When its all said and done, it takes experiencing life to truly come into knowledge…because knowing is indeed half the battle.

:)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:26AM
Hawk at 8:50AM, April 9, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,760
joined: 1-2-2006
ozoneocean
Hawk
I had this happen to me alot when I was back in high school. I remember one specific instance where a teacher of mine proposed a debate for the class, with most of them agreeing with her. But when I spoke up in opposition to her argument I was met with the standard, “Well you're just a kid. You don't have the experience to make that statement.” The actual question in debate isn't really entirely relevant here but let me just say that, about 7 years on I still think my point held water.
Well I'll say that she was probably right. If she could beat you down with such a simple line, whatever you said probably wasn't very convincing or compelling. :)

I think you misquoted me there, ozone. Plas said that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
ozoneocean at 9:37AM, April 9, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,995
joined: 1-2-2004
I did. I wasn't even thinking that I was replying to you, sorry man. I didn't realise I'd put the wrong name in by mistake.
You have my permission to edit my posts if I do that again. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
Aurora Moon at 8:05AM, April 10, 2008
(offline)
posts: 2,630
joined: 1-7-2006
ozoneocean
Plas
I had this happen to me alot when I was back in high school. I remember one specific instance where a teacher of mine proposed a debate for the class, with most of them agreeing with her. But when I spoke up in opposition to her argument I was met with the standard, “Well you're just a kid. You don't have the experience to make that statement.” The actual question in debate isn't really entirely relevant here but let me just say that, about 7 years on I still think my point held water.
Well I'll say that she was probably right. If she could beat you down with such a simple line, whatever you said probably wasn't very convincing or compelling. :)

It could also be argued that the teacher was the sort that would only agree with what a student said as long as they were agreeing with her own logic and opinions. And then basically pulled the “You're just a kid, so shut up” card every time she ran across a student who disagreed with her opinions.
sometimes it's just useless to argue with people like that, especially if they're the stubborn sort who won't even consider anything else than their own opinions.

It's one thing for a teacher to use that “card” when a student is learning something like Mathematics from the teacher.

But when it comes to social and political issues that they discuss in class, the students should be allowed to form his/her opinions based on his/her own logic. No matter how “wrong” the teacher thinks the student is. after all, shooting down somebody like that and keep on doing things like that isn't exactly the best way to get somebody to be more interested in things like the current issues, is it?

That's more likely to create apathetic young adults, isn't it?
I can see a lot of people in thier 20's to 25's going: “Why bother trying to be more intersted in the current issues, much less standing up for what I believe in? After all, my expernice in the past tells me that my opinions and my own vaid points that I might bring to the public won't be valued or counted as vaild. They judge everything on how old a person is!”
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
plas at 11:10AM, April 10, 2008
(offline)
posts: 47
joined: 4-5-2008
Aurora Moon
It could also be argued that the teacher was the sort that would only agree with what a student said as long as they were agreeing with her own logic and opinions. And then basically pulled the “You're just a kid, so shut up” card every time she ran across a student who disagreed with her opinions.

Thats exactly the situation, I just figured, meh she's in power and what I say won't be considered regardless, so I might as well just join theatre tech and then I can get out of class legitimately and not have to deal with her :P (lighting plays ftw :D)

Aurora Moon
That's more likely to create apathetic young adults, isn't it?
I can see a lot of people in thier 20's to 25's going: “Why bother trying to be more intersted in the current issues, much less standing up for what I believe in? After all, my expernice in the past tells me that my opinions and my own vaid points that I might bring to the public won't be valued or counted as vaild. They judge everything on how old a person is!”

I am so happy that didn't happen to me. In fact I ran into a couple of these teachers (straight up through University too) and while I came to the conclusion that it just wasn't worth debating the point of contention with them I didn't lose my drive to debate and question (which I think might irritate some people I have had debates with in the past, like my roommates :P)

Its one of the reasons I love the internet, you can make an argument and if it is intelligent and well thought out then you can be considered for the merits of your point while disregarding mitigating factors such as age (like in Enders Game! Locke and Demosthenes! man i love that book). Though the problem you run into in the internet is that anonymity breeds aggression and ignorance, as Penny Arcade put in their usual way Anonymity + Forums = Jackass (or something along those lines).

I really think though, that everyone should be encouraged to voice their argument so long as it is well thought out. Critical thinking is key to a healthy and active mind, which is something we don't see to often these days in the vast majority of people (hmmm, i smell a connection to that “dumbing down of america” thread :P).
I has no picture :(
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:46PM
bobhhh at 3:19PM, April 14, 2008
(offline)
posts: 893
joined: 5-12-2007
ozoneocean
bobhhh
However I would also add that until youre hair begins to fall out, you recieve youre first prostate exam or people you know and love begin to become feeble and die, you really don't know much about being an adult.
My paternal Grandfather died in his 80s'. He never experienced the first two and barely even the last (we're a long lived bunch), so by your definition he was never “adult”.

I don't accept that in any way, shape, or form. It's just another version of “you're just a kid”, but using mostly superficial parameters.



Mazeltov to you and your granddad.

Ok so substitute pay bills, get drafted, take out a morgage or some other thing for my somewhat humourous physical failings, the fact is kids by definition have limited life experience.

but i think you missed my final point:
Someone
That doesn't make anyone smarter, but it does mean we need to pay attention to each other a bit more.

I wasn't saying kids don't know shit, I was saying kids and adults are often ignorant of each other's plights and perspectives. So we need to listen to each other, especially us adults who should know better, because children and teens often live in a world and have a perspective most adults are too quick to forget and devalue.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
JakeDaSnake at 7:30AM, April 17, 2008
(offline)
posts: 1
joined: 4-16-2008
I'm fine with the what do you know if we (kids) are stating a fact. But when we give our opinions, and people say we know nothing, that pisses me off. I can have my own political thoughts. What's the problem with that?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
bobhhh at 7:45AM, April 17, 2008
(offline)
posts: 893
joined: 5-12-2007
JakeDaSnake
I'm fine with the what do you know if we (kids) are stating a fact. But when we give our opinions, and people say we know nothing, that pisses me off. I can have my own political thoughts. What's the problem with that?

There can never be anything fundamentally wrong with an informed opinion.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:30AM
bravo1102 at 6:17PM, April 21, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,323
joined: 1-21-2008
A mistake so many make is to think they no longer have anything left to learn. It wasn't until I realized that no matter how much I knew, I didn't know anything and couldn't know everything and that there was still so much to learn. It was often surprising where and from whom I would learn things. “Out of the mouths of babes…”

There is ignorant and there is inexperienced. Youth is usually inexperienced but not always ignorant, whereas adults can be experienced but still ignorant. It all depends on where they are on the learning curve and whether they learn or even want to.

That being said, when a young person states an opinion that life will most likely change, then it may indeed be valid to say “you're a kid, what do you know.”

(e.g. 17 year old woman: “I will never have children.” Her place and position will be different 10 years later and then 20 years later and with the clock ticking she will most probably want children. This has been backed up in numerous long term studies)

Then there is the arrogance of ignorance and that is ageless.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:32AM
Toshubi at 10:40AM, April 26, 2008
(offline)
posts: 119
joined: 3-25-2006
I've met some pretty sharp minded children in my life. In my opinion, you should hear out what the kid has to say, then add you life experience to thier ideas and see if there is something that the kid over looked, or couldn't forsee due to lack of life experience. If you don't see any pitfalls or oversights, give the kid credit for his or her great ideas or thoughts and encourage them to continue coming up with new ideas. If there is a pitfall or oversight, inform the child of the problem you forsee with your life experience and encourage them to continue coming up with new ideas or coming up with a solution to the oversight.
Too many times parents don't fully explain why a kid's ideas aren't “such a good idea”. And some parents won't admit to thier kids if they've made the same mistakes that thier kids are making or about to make.
Bravo1102 makes an excelent point…

Bravo1102
A mistake so many make is to think they no longer have anything left to learn. It wasn't until I realized that no matter how much I knew, I didn't know anything and couldn't know everything and that there was still so much to learn. It was often surprising where and from whom I would learn things. “Out of the mouths of babes…”
Those are true words of wisdom right there.

But on the other side of the fence, kids need to listen to thier elders and genuinely take what life experience information they have to offer and apply it to thier thoughts and ideas. If the inexperienced refuse to acknowledge the lessons of those who've “been there and done that”, then they are doomed to repeat those mistakes.
Ya know that tough material they make the “black box” on airplanes?
Why don't they make the whole plane out of that stuff?
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:33PM

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved