Debate and Discussion

"You have done what most people ...do not have enough courage to do".
shaneronzio at 9:20AM, Aug. 27, 2008
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“You have done what most people want to do, but do not have enough courage to do”.


REMEMBER Yang Jia
THIS GUY TOOK A STAND AGAINST OPPRESSION IN CHINA, HE WILL PROBABLY BE PUT TO DEATH.
read the article here—–>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/2627001/Chinese-cop-killer-becomes-internet-hero.html



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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
ozoneocean at 10:25PM, Aug. 27, 2008
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In the debate and discussion forum, it's generally best to give a bit more info than just a brief description and a link -_-

I don't mean to be rude but you have to bring more to it of your own interpretation than just asking us to comment on a story somewhere else.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
shaneronzio at 6:31AM, Aug. 28, 2008
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After I read the article, I knew I had to share the information about this man.
On my trek to China, I saw a country full of talented, intelligent people who want nothing more than to be free of Tyranny.
This guy took a stand against the oppressive Communist Regime that threatens the way of life of every man, woman and child on this planet.
What I saw in China was a system that gave people just enough capitalism to give them a sense that they were doing something better with thier lives, but, there was no freedom of speech, In America, My Generation takes so much for granted, and there is an element of evil, real evil out there that wants to exploit our current obsession with gadgets and electronic distractions to chip away at our freedoms.
Because the Pigs see what the Wolves in China have got away with, and they have the lightbulbs flashing above their heads.The wheels are turning, and they are planning.
Conspiracy?…Maybe.
It is only a Conspiracy until it actually happens, then, in this case, its too late.

And here is this scrappy nobody, Yang Jia, who was knocked around by the ones in charge and he was a good guy, and he tried to get things done legally, and nothing was resolved, so he takes a stand against Impossible odds.
In a sense, what he did was suicide, but, if people everywhere would take a bit of notice at what has happened here, this one act is as big as the 1989 Tienamen Square protest where the student stood infront of a line of tanks.

I will admit, resorting to violence should never be the first option, but, it is inspireing to see this man, who has lost everything, hold his head up and spit back in the face of the ones who have put their boot heel down on the throat of Asia.
The man is a Patriot, and that is worth mentioning, discussing and spreading the word about.
When we ignore these things, when people do nothing, it becomes so much easier for the Enemies of freedom for all people to Race ahead with their agenda.

Now, perhaps I should butt out, mind my own business, let it be China's Problem.
Well, it is.
It is China's problem and only the people of China can change What the current state of China is.

Just like it is up to Americans to turn off their damn electronic toys and change things in our own back yards.



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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
Croi Dhubh at 12:06PM, Aug. 28, 2008
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Using terms like “Pigs” to describe the police force or other enforcers doesn't help you much.

He was not acting in self defense, he was acting out in, during this instance, unprovoked anger. This is much akin to the wife shooting her husband in the back of his head while he was asleep and saying she did it because he beats her when he's awake.

The issue is, he should have waited until he could have actually be acting in self defense.

I'm not saying the law enforcement in China is just, but that's like me blowing up my neighbors car because it's always too loud and waking me up, but I can't take legal action against it.

Yang Jia was involved in a terrorist act. It may very well have been many of the officers involved in the attack were not the ones out beating people at random. He didn't think and acted in blind rage instead.
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Moderatio est Figmentum: Educatio est Omnium Efficacissima Forma Rebellionis

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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:54AM
StaceyMontgomery at 2:03PM, Aug. 28, 2008
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Of course, I do not know the truth of the story, so I'm just going by what we have: but a man who is beaten and maimed for riding an unliscenced bicycle has, in fact, been provoked. Since I grew up in a country founded by rebels (I am from the USA) I naturally take the side of the man who fought back.

What is the correct response to living in tyranny? Violence? Non-violent protest? Obedience?

I do not know. I have often considered the values of pacifism. But a man who would throw a molotov cocktail into a police station in a police state would have fit in very well at Lexington and Concorde.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
lothar at 3:17PM, Aug. 28, 2008
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Hah Ha ! Chinese internet censorship is failing !! stupid Chinese government , google and other internet companies have blood on their hands for going along with the murderer Chinese rulers.
this guy is gunna get the death penalty but his heart will continue to beat in some rich comunist party insider and the rest of his organs will be sold on that same internet they hate so much.
Fu
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Croi Dhubh at 9:11PM, Aug. 28, 2008
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Yeah, that's right. War and violence never solve anything nor are they the answer to the problems, unless you're a guerrilla terrorist or grow up in a police state.
Liberate Tutemae Ex Inferis
Moderatio est Figmentum: Educatio est Omnium Efficacissima Forma Rebellionis

http://weblog.xanga.com/CroiDhubh - Home to the “Chuck E. Cheese Terror” stories
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:54AM
ozoneocean at 5:03AM, Aug. 29, 2008
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Croi Dhubh
Yeah, that's right. War and violence never solve anything nor are they the answer to the problems, unless you're a guerrilla terrorist or grow up in a police state.
He has a complex personality, just like you and most of us here… No one is a single issue person ;)

It's an interesting story. Both his act and the alleged acts of the police were unjust, but the censorship part is extremely telling.

I think there's something important that people don't get with China… It's not really a case of the “police state” or bad old communism that's the problem there. Those things can be problematic, or not, depending on circumstance, but what's really driving the worst of it right now is the unequal distribution of wealth :)
Now that's a PERENNIAL problem in all paces and at ALL times.

Did you read the bit about him losing his job? Having no hope? No money, no degree?
In China currently certain places, certain ethnicities, certain classes of people are doing MANY times better than others… Some ethnicities and classes there are the lowest of the low, others are extremely wealthy. Those poor disenfranchised people can have their very homes and lands seized and used for the benefit of some rich developer funded project.

-Communism ISN'T the problem there. The problem is that it is a weak shell, unable to stand up for the values for which it was founded. All that's left is a little pathetic, nasty, reactionary core. The problem is the rich and powerful manipulating the system because they can, bribing officials, putting down their fellow man for their own advantage.

It's funny (in a black comedy way) because that's all the worst of the trouble with capitalism AND Monarchy, except it's closeted away and protected safe in that shell of a dying communist system, like those wasp parasites that control snails… (the zombie snails).
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
shaneronzio at 2:31PM, Aug. 29, 2008
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-
Someone
Because the Pigs see what the Wolves in China have got away with, and they have the lightbulbs flashing above their heads.The wheels are turning, and they are planning.
Before I repond to all of this, let me just say…
Communism Works Really well…ON PAPER.
What I meant earlier about the Pigs…
I did not mean Police, no, in referring to the Police in this situation, they are the Wolves.

In this situation, the Pigs are the global Elite, the handful of Ultra powerful swine who determine exactly what is going on all over a global scale in your house, in your life and there is nothing you can do about it.

They are the Uber swine…and they are very real.



The Wolves are the Batallions of Militant Cookie cut soldiers that keep the Strict way of life in China marching along.


If Tyranny is the Only option, if there is really no chance at ever being heard, or able to express your thoughts…
Then why not live that one day as a lion then Die under the Iron fist of Despotism.

We have so much opportunity here in America, and there are people who want so bad for us to be more like China.

Everybody is worried about China, I feel that China has a Cancer…it's called The oppression of its own people.


Humans NEED freedom to survive, to thrive.
Why did so much happen in the past 200 years?
Freedom, baby.
If China would realise that, they really would be unstoppable.


Because they have the Work Ethic, They have the Talent and they have mad skills.

Look at post Commie Moscow.

Did you know that there are more Millionaires there right now than in any other city in Europe, possibly the world!!
Check this out
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/08/moscow-night/smith-text

Sure, it has alot to work out, there are alot of rough edges, but, at least there is an opportunity for people to rise above where they came from.


Yes, By the George W.Bush Definition of Terrorism, this Guy is a terrorist.
But…I Don't Buy that.
Because, folks, George Washington was a Scrappy, ex officer, Pirate frontiersman who took a stand against Tyranny.
I am happy to have him on the One Dollar Bill.

Does this Yang Jia really deserve to be compared to George Washington.
No, Yang Jia is no Washington, He is a Martyr for Liberty of an entire Nation of Oppressed individuals.

That is Huge.


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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
ozoneocean at 3:22PM, Aug. 29, 2008
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shaneronzio
Did you know that there are more Millionaires there right now than in any other city in Europe, possibly the world!!
Heh, nice thoughts, but do you know why that really is the case? ;)

Sorry man, but it's for similar reasons to the rise of the wealthy in China: the remnants of the old system breaking down and those were the clever, lucky and privileged people who were able to take advantage of it- dividing up the country's wealth between them.
The worst times in Russia were in the 90's, worse than any time in i the last 50 years for many, because of the massive divide between rich and poor: the theft of the nation's wealth into the pockets of the few, usually illegally because of special deals with former communist officials.

That's what's happening in China now in many respects and that's what's causing the all the riots and battle in outlying regions and small towns.

Why has the U.S. done so well? “Freedom”? lol!
Luck more likely, providence, favourable circumstance and taking advantage of that. The power centre was in Europe, it transferred to the United States after WW1. We know why this is so: NOT “freedom”, no, the country grew rich supplying recourses to Europe, a massive manufacturing base, bailing Europe out of WW1 which didn't really touch the U.S. There's no mystery to it.
———————————-

Chief advantages the United states has was that it didn't have the level of corruption that the break down of communism has caused in China, it was relatively shielded from external conflict by not many boarders and a nice wide coastline, and while it had the problem of the rich and poor divide and the rich “aristocracy” like everywhere else, it lacked the huge numbers of dirt poor disenfranchised peasant classes that most of Europe and all of China had and still has. -Mainly because that was all tied up in the former slave minority.

—————–
What else has China got now? A population where more people have spending power because restrictions were lifted a few years ago and that population was used by the world as a dirt cheap labour force to make our cheap crap. Now they have a critical mass of population with money that can support their internal economy.
NOT so much the mystery of “freedom”, just making better use of a large portion of their working population.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
shaneronzio at 5:01AM, Aug. 31, 2008
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Yang Jia is a Real American.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
Signz at 7:06AM, Aug. 31, 2008
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shaneronzio
Yang Jia is a Real American.

^^^ what he said
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:36PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 1:59PM, Sept. 2, 2008
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Yeah, not sure murdering random policeman is something I can get behind, no matter the cause.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:08AM
ifelldownthestairs at 6:16AM, Sept. 3, 2008
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very very interesting article.

however, what this guy did has that scene from the first terminator cemented in my head right now, where he just obliterates the police station.

…well, the police officers within, rather.

i keep thinking of yang jia blasting cops and lance henriksen pops out and checks on the lieutenant.

“ed… HEY!”
you know why birds don't write their memoirs? because birds don't lead epic lives, that's why. who'd want to read what a bird does? nobody. that's who.
http://www.drunkduck.com/i_fell_down_the_stairs
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:56PM
ipokino at 11:30AM, Sept. 9, 2008
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Someone
Yeah, that's right. War and violence never solve anything nor are they the answer to the problems, unless you're a guerrilla terrorist or grow up in a police state.

Actually. War and violence have solved a LOT of problems (they have also injured millions of innocent people, destroyed lives ect) and I am not a proponent of either. But to use a blanket statement that presupposes no good ever came from war or violence is wrong. Violence to protect oneself is perfectly acceptable. Warfare to save lives or property is also acceptable. If the man in question acted for either of those purposes–he should be congratulated or at the very least, supported in his quest for dignity. Trouble is, there is a very fine line between rightness and terror.
Islamic extremeists think they act for ‘rightness’ but we think they are terrorists. Perception as Einstein postulated is key. Observed reality determines right and wrong. Never any easy answers I guess. Sigh.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:02PM
ozoneocean at 10:11PM, Sept. 11, 2008
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ipokino
Actually. War and violence have solved a LOT of problems (they have also injured millions of innocent people, destroyed lives ect)
…I think the clue here is in the dead and injured innocents. War and might solve some problems but it tends to create just as many or even a lot more. So on balance: no, it doesn't solve problems.

“Violence” is a bit of a different animal… It's too broad a term. It can solve issues depending on the circumstance, but it's a blunt and crude tool.

And yes, you're correct; right and wrong are perceived. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
StaceyMontgomery at 8:51AM, Sept. 12, 2008
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I have often argued that war and violence do NOT solve problems… but they do sometimes STOP problems.

Stopping is not as good as Solving. A problem that has been stopped - but not solved - tend to come back.

Still, when a solution does not seem at hand, we tend to settle for making the problem stop.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
lastcall at 5:32PM, Sept. 25, 2008
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forget violence…..coconut creme pie solves EVERYTHING!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:28PM
shaneronzio at 8:06AM, Nov. 25, 2008
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Escapee of North Korea's brutal prison camp tells his horrifying story…

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6e3_1226613958&p=1
Current Project:CROSS WORLDS NEXUS
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
BffSatan at 1:47AM, Nov. 26, 2008
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How can you call him a hero? He is a terrorist and a murderer, thoose policemen could have had spouses and children and parents and siblings and friends, all of whom will never see their loved ones again. Murdering innocents will not change the system, all it does is make China a worse place to live, given enough social pressure of this nature a totalitarian state (because China is not communist, it is totalitarian) will become anarchist, and that would be even worse.

There are REAL heroes in China who fight against the opression, and they don't murder people. It's because of theese REAL heroes that China is opening up and allowing small freedoms. Bit by bit theese REAL heroes fight tyranny, and they don't end up making the situation worse and violent. Why do you call this dick shit a hero when there are REAL heroes in China making actual progress to the system?

Does everyone doesn't like America crash planes into it's buildings? Does everyone who is pro-life blow up abortion clinics? Does everyone who believes in Animal rights murder scientists testing on animals? No, so why idolize this man? He is a terrorist, just because he is fighting a cause that you believe in you can't call him a hero. If he was at all brave, if he gave a crap about his countries future, he would have joinged the fight with the REAL heroes, maybe then he could have made a difference.

According to Al Queda, Osama Bin Laden is a hero and the Nazi party and the KKK think hitler was a hero. This man get's no special status, he is an animal-like killer.

The tianamin square protesters are heroes. He is not one of them.

I say let him go to jail at least, I won't shed a tear for his execution though, all he's done is bring back the progress the REAL heroes have been making.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
BffSatan at 2:12AM, Nov. 26, 2008
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shaneronzio
Escapee of North Korea's brutal prison camp tells his horrifying story…

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6e3_1226613958&p=1
North Koreas totalitarian rule is appaling, that's whats really wrong with communism, it starts of a nice idea of complete freedom and equality, according to original Marxist principal, but it always ends up totalitarian.

Hopfully one day the spotlight will move off North Korea as being an enemy of freedom and the world will see it as a victim of totalitarianism.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM

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