Debate and Discussion

'Cause don't "soilders" deserve the best?
maritalbliss at 10:47AM, May 24, 2007
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Ethan and I were watching The History Channel yesterday and it was a segment on the history of armor, or Mail Call, or something similar. They were discussing the controversial body armor called, Dragon Armor…(This show was about two years old, mind you) and they had done all these tests on this Dragon Armor, proving it's superiority to other personal armory devices. But, for some reason (price) the Army banned the use of this scale like protectant.

Despite the ban, many top rankin' bigwigs have bought Dragon Armor out of their own pockets for protection, some elite special forces in Iraq and Afghanistan use it, so do some SWAT teams and some marines…But, the Army still won't approve this, they say, it didn't pass their test. (Even though there is speculation and gag orders aplenty pointing to the bottom line again) the Army swears their “classified” tests proved the vests unworthy. “After a few soldiers started wearing Dragon Skin body armor, the much-hyped alternative to the standard Interceptor defenses, the Army banned the flexible armor – and allegedly threatened to cut off the life insurance policies of anyone wearing it.” (According to Defensetech.org) Way to help soilder's morale, guys.

There has been a “TON” of other testing on the Dragon Skin: Sheriff's departments, Stanford University Medical Center, News networks (NBC, History Channel, Discovery.) Police forces….and the Dragon Skin proved more effective than anything currently availiable.

FROM Wikipedia:

Fresno test
Fresno, CA police officers ordered it after a vest stopped all the bullets fired during a test, including .308 rounds from a sniper rifle and 30 rounds from a fully automatic MP-5 fired from 5 feet away. Ninety-eight federal, state, and local law enforcement officers witnessed the SWAT test. The armor also stopped 40 rounds of PS-M1943 mild steel core bullets from an AK-47 along with 200 9 mm FMJ military ball bullets fired from a submachine gun.

December 2006 test
On December 7, 2006 a demonstrational shoot for the following departments took place on a 10“ x 12” SOV-2000 Level III panel: Saint Charles Parish Sheriff's SWAT, Saint John's Parish Sheriff's SWAT, Gretna PD, Jefferson Parish Sheriff's SWAT, LaCruz Parish Sheriff's SWAT, Ascension Parish Sheriff's SWAT, Coast Guard Investigative Services, US Navy.

A total of 17 rounds were fired into the panel without penetration.

3 @ 7.62x51mm Federal Match
3 @ 7.62x39mm Military Ball
3 @ 5.56x45mm M193 Ball
3 @ 5.56x45mm M193 Ball at 45 degrees
2 @ 5.56x45mm M855 Green Tip
2 @ 5.56x45mm Bonded M193
1 @ 7.62x51mm Federal Bonded

There are more, but this proves my point…It seems to me that all men and women that pledge to lay their lives on the line deserve the best armor available, regardless of the pricetag. (Or at least deserve the option) Then again, I'm not in politics.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:53PM
Phantom Penguin at 12:25PM, May 24, 2007
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Ha I can help you out with this one:
Money.

We just got done feilding the Intercepter ACU body armor to all soldiers of combat units. By ‘just’ I mean I got mine my 9th month in Iraq.
Those vest have a long lifespan, about 3-10 years (not counting the balistic plates which are designed to break apart). Each one of those vest costs in the thousands of dollars.

Now, with more then 500,000 soldiers just being fit for the IBA (interceptor body armor) do you think they are going to scrap them for something new?

Besides the IBA can stop up to .50 cal bullets- the largest round any given person will be carrying on their person. I've seen it save many lives and as body armor goes, feels not half bad while wearing it. Grant the DrangonSkin looks neat, it would take years to field and further billions of dollars that our military just doesn't have at the moment.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
ozoneocean at 12:41PM, May 24, 2007
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Heh. One other thing… This dragon skin thing is a big story right now but you'll find there are arguments about every single item a military force acquires from the types of bullets, webbing, boots, knives, camouflage, rifles, the material the uniforms are made with, The types of brackets machine guns are affixed with, to the types of helicopter they buy, submarines, warships, etc. There are always excellent reasons put forth as to why a different one would be better or why the old one was way better than any replacement. It's amazing, these sorts of debates about the merits of different equipment are never ending and cyclical.

That doesn't mean they aren't valid! But they always happen, Dragon skin armour is just a recent visible example.

Still, whatever the US's choices or merits of the invasion and occupation of Iraq, the US seems to be doing remarkably well as it is! There are casualties yes, but far fewer than usual, and if you listen to news reports about the Russians in Chechnya, Pakistan fighting rebels, or Sri Lanka attacking Tamil rebels you'd know that in any military actions losses are usually far higher!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:27PM
Phantom Penguin at 12:52PM, May 24, 2007
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Both of those soldiers were not hurt.
We know armor.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
maritalbliss at 1:12PM, May 24, 2007
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If you feel as safe as you can possibly feel with what you've got then I'm happy!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:53PM
Phantom Penguin at 3:50PM, May 24, 2007
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maritalbliss
If you feel as safe as you can possibly feel with what you've got then I'm happy!
No body armor is fool proof. The IBA can sometimes fail to work the way it is suppose to, but anything does that.
Constant improvments are being done to the IBA, such as kidney plates, shoulder and arm plates so we are like a damned knight in that shit.

The problem with any body armor is the damned weight, until anyone makes a set as heavy as a cotton shirt, I really won't like it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
mlai at 6:19AM, May 27, 2007
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Money but not in the sense of greed (that's part of it), but also in the sense of the larger strategic theatre.

The American military is not made of money. If you spend more on BA, it means you're spending less on somewhere else. Since the big cheeses aren't gonna get a pay cut or stop the funding for their Cold War era pet projects, that “somewhere else” is gonna be from another element of the strategic theatre which would ultimately adversely affect the efficiency and survival of the infantry element. This disadvantage would outweigh the relatively slim advantage offered by BA #2 in comparison to BA #1.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
marine at 7:19PM, May 27, 2007
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According to my news sources, the major dilema in the current iraq occupation (remember, the war is over) is not so much body wounds (chest, abdomen, etc) but the arms and legs which are basicly exposed to IEDs. If we could somehow stop the problem of IEDs or perhaps pull our troops from that country, we could concentrate on more important issues. Like Saturday Night Live. It hasn't been good in years. I quit watching it and caught an episode the other day from what I assume is the new-er episodes. Terrible. Absolutely terrible.

I'm just curious when the mech suits and power armor will go into effect. I've already read about laser weapons and sound cannons that have been developed, that are going into effect. I've seen stuff on the discovery channel and history channel about robots being already deployed for recon. Its just a matter of time before we've got guys in some type of mobile suit, most likely anorexic looking guys with spikey hair as seen in gundam wing or the current massively homosexual armed forces, this could in fact, solve our problems with the space colonies.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM

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