Debate and Discussion

2008 Democratic Race or Gender?
Chaosord at 10:28PM, April 24, 2008
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Right now in the US of A history is being made. For the first time a blck man is running for Pres. as well as a white woman. Most people would see this as a sign of how equal America is. I really don't. Now bare wit me here I think its great that they can. However most of the people I know or have over heard say that they are voting for one or the other based soleily upon their race or gender. This is no a sign of progress but of bigotry(spelling?). I find myself wondering what happened to the 1950s, the women's movement, and most of all when does race or gender factor into who would make a better Pres.? Are we as Americans so close-minded, so hypocritail(spelling?)?

American used to a place of equality and freedom. But, now with the lobbyist stranglehold on D.C. and the Patroit Act what America used to be has all but died. Now this. People not looking at Obama and Clinton's poltics but their race and gender. It sickens me. I just to be proud to be an American, glad to be living under the Red, the White and, the Blue where all of mankind was created equal but now there is only shame.

That being said, what do the people of DrunkDuck think?
ps. Thanks for listening.

I…see…you…
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
bobhhh at 12:48AM, April 25, 2008
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posts: 893
joined: 5-12-2007
Chaosord
Right now in the US of A history is being made. For the first time a blck man is running for Pres. as well as a white woman. Most people would see this as a sign of how equal America is. I really don't. Now bare wit me here I think its great that they can. However most of the people I know or have over heard say that they are voting for one or the other based soleily upon their race or gender. This is no a sign of progress but of bigotry(spelling?). I find myself wondering what happened to the 1950s, the women's movement, and most of all when does race or gender factor into who would make a better Pres.? Are we as Americans so close-minded, so hypocritail(spelling?)?

American used to a place of equality and freedom. But, now with the lobbyist stranglehold on D.C. and the Patroit Act what America used to be has all but died. Now this. People not looking at Obama and Clinton's poltics but their race and gender. It sickens me. I just to be proud to be an American, glad to be living under the Red, the White and, the Blue where all of mankind was created equal but now there is only shame.

That being said, what do the people of DrunkDuck think?
ps. Thanks for listening.



To render Obama's candidacy to race is to gretaly misunderstand his magnetism, his ability to give voice to his vision and skill as an orator. Certainly his race is symbolic, but it has to be…he's black, 50 years ago Sammy Davis JR had to enter theaters from the back door, but there are hundreds of black politicians in this country with tenure, if it was just about race there would have been a lot more black men running.

The fact is this race thing is simply what Kennedy had to put up with when he ran. He wasn't a WASP, so that's what people fixed on. Fear and paranoia inform us that the fact that he is so obviously different must mean that there is reason to be concerned.

Now Clinton is another matter, I am glad a woman is a heart beat from the presidency, but her candidacy is larger fueled by starfuckers, because of Bill. Just like Bush got a bump from his dad's DNA.

Having said that it is true that some will vote based soley on race and gender, largely because they see an opening that they have waited very patiently for. You know those Wasp's have had an iron grip on the reign's of power for so long, but I would argue that is the minority of Clinton and Obama supporters.

Ask some of the young people who are voting for the first time that these two remaining Democratic nominees have succeeding in registering. They have a lot to say about their vision for America and very little of it is blind racial and gender bias.

The only people who keep harping on race and gender are lazy newspeople, confused pollsters and self important pundits.

I invite you to remember how accurate they have been so far in this race.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:30AM
Product Placement at 2:01AM, April 25, 2008
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It would be awfully narrow minded if that's all people would look at. I think, if memory serves me right, that I heard early on in the pre-elections that a lot of black voters that normally don't vote would rally to support Obama, raising the average number of voting. I heard at the same time that Hillary wouldn't have the same edge because the average woman wouldn't trust another woman for this kind of position. If they would, Hillary would have guarantied half the voters on the spot.

Remember that I did not make that claim. This is stuff I heard during the early election debates when it became apparent who were running for office.

I also don't see the big deal behind a woman leader. My country already broke that barrier decades ago. A woman named Vigdis Finnbogadottir won the presidency and sat for four terms (there's no roof on how long you can sit as a president in Iceland).

Here's a list of countries that have had female leaders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_president
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
freefall_drift at 8:55AM, April 25, 2008
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I'm an Obama supporter. 50% of Obama supporters do not want to vote for Hillary.
I can give you several reasons why I don't want to vote for Hillary. Her support of NAFTA. That she lied so stupidly about Bosnia. She wants the delegate rules changed to help her. That having her as the nominee won't help the other cantidates on the ticket while having Obama will probably get a lot more progressives elected. She voted FOR the war.
70% of Clinton supporter don't want to vote for Obama. I don't know why. Cause he's for change? That her health care plan is fractionally better than Obama's? Is it the Bob Dole reason, that it's Clinton's turn and Obama should wait his turn? My black partner thinks it's simply that Obama is half black. The Clinton supporters don't don't want to admit it, but they do not want to vote for a black man. I hope it's not that.
Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
StaceyMontgomery at 9:18AM, April 25, 2008
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The initial post seems odd because it implies that people vote for Obama or Clinton on issues of race and gender - but doesn't mention John McCain at all. Do people vote for the white guy because he's white and a guy? I've certainly met people who say they are voting for McCain because “he's the one who looks like me.” But of course, my anecdotal stories are worth no more than anyone else's.

Setting that aside, the major factor that seems to determine whether people are Obama or Clinton supporters in the democratic primary appears to be age - younger voters favor Obama, older voters favor Clinton. That seems to indicate that the dialogue taking place between the two is not about race & Gender, but about generations.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
freefall_drift at 10:20AM, April 25, 2008
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If it's generational, then that tangentially supports my assumption that the Hillary supporters don't want to support Obama because he's half black. Younger voters don't have the same issues around race as older ones.

Any Hillary supporters here? Can you tell me why you won't support Obama if he gets nominated?
Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
bobhhh at 11:47AM, April 25, 2008
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I think McCain got the nod not because he was a WASP male, but because Romney, Thompson and Giuliani were all empty suits.

Inspite of his break with the hard right, he is a war hero and that usually plays well against any Democrat simply because they are Democrats. Hell Look at Kerry, he had his exemplary decorated war service spun into treason and cowardice by Geroge “never saw a split second of combat” Bush.

The thing one hopes is that the war will remain so unpopular through November that his support for it will end up being a liability instead of an asset.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:30AM
bravo1102 at 9:26PM, April 25, 2008
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freefall_drift
If it's generational, then that tangentially supports my assumption that the Hillary supporters don't want to support Obama because he's half black. Younger voters don't have the same issues around race as older ones.

Any Hillary supporters here? Can you tell me why you won't support Obama if he gets nominated?

1. He's too much a socialist
2. Reverend Wright
3. The guns and religion remark

McCain is the lesser of the two evils.
And there's the “Bradley effect” A pollster will ask a sensitive question about race, so as not to appear racist the person gives one answer. In the voting booth they do the opposite.

I do like McCain as he is a maverick (read pragmatist)he'll do what is necessary politically. I wanted to like Obama but whereas I can understand the whole Reverend Wright thing, some of his rhetoric is too Socialist/Marxist.

I do like Hillary because she is duplicitous and could pull off all the nasty stuff that has to be done sometimes. I respect her for that. Pragmatism again.

I'm looking at what they could be like in office based on what they've done, not necessarily what they say they'll do.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:32AM
bobhhh at 9:44PM, April 25, 2008
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bravo1102
freefall_drift
If it's generational, then that tangentially supports my assumption that the Hillary supporters don't want to support Obama because he's half black. Younger voters don't have the same issues around race as older ones.

Any Hillary supporters here? Can you tell me why you won't support Obama if he gets nominated?

1. He's too much a socialist
2. Reverend Wright
3. The guns and religion remark

McCain is the lesser of the two evils.
And there's the “Bradley effect” A pollster will ask a sensitive question about race, so as not to appear racist the person gives one answer. In the voting booth they do the opposite.

I do like McCain as he is a maverick (read pragmatist)he'll do what is necessary politically. I wanted to like Obama but whereas I can understand the whole Reverend Wright thing, some of his rhetoric is too Socialist/Marxist.

I do like Hillary because she is duplicitous and could pull off all the nasty stuff that has to be done sometimes. I respect her for that. Pragmatism again.

I'm looking at what they could be like in office based on what they've done, not necessarily what they say they'll do.


I agree it more about who they are than what they promise, because even the most erstwhile promises are subject to politics. A president is not a King after all, Bush and his signing statements to the contrary.

I think McCain is an honorable man as well, hell I might even vote for him if not for his sad devotion to a failed vision for “cleaning up the mess” in the middle east.

Ain't gonna happen, better we leave and let them shoot each other like they have been for centuries.

Personally I have a lot more faith in Obama than you, and refuse to let talking points dissuade me from what I percieve is a decent honest man. There is something to be said for a man who can inspire people, and Obama has brought a lot of new blood into the system and succeeded in funding his campaign largely avoid the K street lobbyists that Clinton and McCain have had to court of sheer neccessity.

May the best candidate win. See you in Nov.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:30AM

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