Drunk Duck Awards

2010 DD Award FINALISTS!!!
JustNoPoint at 7:04PM, July 25, 2010
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There I think I replied to all PQs and edited all that needed to be edited. I guess it was actually a good thing I didn't get around to handing out banners yet!

Just one last thing before I finally go to sleep and work my last day of my shift before I'm off work for 4 days and can get this ship going full speed again.


*inhales

AMANDA!!!!!!!!!!

:P
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
Catya at 8:38PM, July 25, 2010
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Just curious: When will the winners be announced?
Read Jack Dirty Paws and Magra
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
usedbooks at 9:02PM, July 25, 2010
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Catya
Just curious: When will the winners be announced?
September. Judging and presentation creation take about a month (to give breathing room for volunteers' various other commitments).

DD Award Timeline: http://www.drunkduck.com/community/view_topic.php?tid=53700&cid=232
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
blntmaker at 11:19PM, July 25, 2010
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thefightingstranger
Maybe for next year, before the nomination voting, there is a “For Your Consideration” page for people who want their comics in the Awards. They can PQ an ad to JNP or who ever runs the awards next year with a list of categories they want to be nominated for. That ad will be displayed for people to see.

This way, even if their great yet overzealous fans nominated them in every category, the organizers can easily eliminate them from categories the creator doesn't want to be in.

I wouldn't say limit the number of categories a comic can be in. I say let the creator's conscious be their guide. Naturally, if someone wants to be nominated for 40 awards, the peers will call them out on it.

“For Your Consideration” was an idea I brought up way back in 2007. I'd love to see this turn away from being a popularity contest.

Moreover, add more slots for nominees a la the Oscars (Best Picture went from five to ten slots).

Still, I admire all the people it takes to get this thing organized. Great fun all around.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:26AM
usedbooks at 4:14AM, July 26, 2010
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blntmaker
Moreover, add more slots for nominees a la the Oscars (Best Picture went from five to ten slots).
Actually, from the vote tallies, that wouldn't make sense and would be pretty impossible (at least for TEN). This is what most categories look like in terms of votes (except we got WAY more with 2 and 1 and a few misspellings JNP had to account for in final tallies):

Comic A – 23
Comic B – 12
Comic C – 8
Comic D – 8
Comic E – 4
Comic F – 3
Comic G – 2
Comic H – 2
Comic I – 2
Comic J – 2
Comic K – 2
Comic L – 2
comicb – 2
Comic M – 1
Comic N – 1
Comic O – 1
Comic p – 1
Comic Q – 1
Comic R – 1
Comic S – 1
Comic T – 1
Comic U – 1
Comic V – 1
Comic W – 1

In most categories, pretty much all of the comics receiving more than a couple votes (and that “fit” the category) are among the finalists. This is the reason some categories only have four candidates, because we had four comics receiving a handful of votes and then a dozen or so with two and a bunch with one.

Some categories did end up with seven or eight comics receiving a bunch of votes and some of these had ties (hence the tie breaking votes). Next year, instead of having a limit of five with tie-breakers, we could simply take all the nominees receiving more than two or three (or whatever number we agree on, and depending on participation) votes for the final judging. Some categories would end up with four and some might end up with seven or eight. We don't want to go overboard, of course. Judging these things takes a lot of time as it is, because judges are pretty thorough and want to give the candidates a fair shake.

That would practically eliminate the “popularity” effects from the contest – if that's what people want.

We also do a “readers' choice” which is a prize for the overall highest voted comic. (And JNP hinted at some surprise awards, but I've said too much.) If we wanted, we could extend that and do both a judges' and a popular award in each category. (I suggested this before, but there wasn't much interest. Heh.) For that, we would send the eligible nominees for judging as usual and also either simply make an additional prize for the top comic or we take the top three for a second round of voting (as was done in the first year of DD Awards). – Comic creators do take pride in their popularity and their supportive fans, so having “popular awards” has its merit, and a lot of people were pulling for that and didn't like the judging panel idea early on. (Personally, I think the popular comics are already represented in the “Browse” function at least for genre categories. ;) )

Of course, the community has changed and there are different people here now, so we can run the awards however we as a group choose. We'll definitely bring up these ideas and options in spring when we discuss how we want the year's awards run.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
Abt_Nihil at 5:16AM, July 26, 2010
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I'm not sure whether limiting the amount of categories a comic can get nominated for is such a good idea. How should you decide on the categories in which you'd like to be nominated? They certainly won't be decided on by the criterion of “best fit”, but they will in some way be decided strategically (like: the category in which I'd have best chances of winning).

My point is: we should keep strategic thinking out of these awards as best as we can (it cannot be avoided to a certain degree, but where it can, it should be).

If anything, I'd say judges should sort these things out.


That leaves the problem of overexposure for comics which are hugely popular anyway; but I feel that that is a problem which has to be tackled separately. I mean, think about what would happen if the Eisner awards were organized like the dd awards are (by making popularity the criterion for being nominated): Limiting categories wouldn't solve the problem that Batman is always more likely to score any award in any category than The Goon. Meaning: Even if you would limit the categories, the categories in which Batman would end up being nominated would still be biased by its sheer popularity. Great written indie titles might never make it into the final round, and the judges would always end up having to decide between DC and Marvel titles (and maybe one or two Image or IDW titles, but that wouldn't really improve the situation).

The question is, how could you make sure Blankets gets nominated for best written comic, while Mighty Avengers does not, while still relying on popularity to some degree? Is it even possible? The analogy can only take us this far, because our solution to this problem might have to be a novel one.

I don't have a good answer (because a good answer would have to be strikingly simple), but there is one thing which appeals to me as the most rational solution: there would have to be a mathematical factor involved which takes into account the current “most popular” comics on dd. Like “votes for comic C divided by popularity of C”. If anything, a vote for an unknown comic should weigh more than a vote for an extremely popular comic, simply because of considerations of probability. (This wouldn't mean disregarding the point that a comic might be popular quite simply because it is “objectively good”, but just the fact that the likelihood for it being nominated is higher as it is.)

I should point out that I'm not making a case against categories which are based on popularity, I'm making a case for “best story” and similar categories, which have to be as objective as possible.

To be sure, this is not a pragmatic solution (especially considering the numbers in the previous post), and I realize that the dd awards need a pragmatic solution more than anything - but I didn't just want to restate the obvious problem ^^;

repoman
Just my $3.02 (adjusted for currency debasement by the Federal Reserve).
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:44AM
Aelwyn at 7:13AM, July 26, 2010
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Abt_Nihil
I'm not sure whether limiting the amount of categories a comic can get nominated for is such a good idea. How should you decide on the categories in which you'd like to be nominated? They certainly won't be decided on by the criterion of “best fit”, but they will in some way be decided strategically (like: the category in which I'd have best chances of winning).

One would think a comic's best chance of winning would be in the categories it was most qualified for.

I thought to myself that the best way to prove my point, would be to compile the finalists from the last three years into a spread sheet. This is what my thought stems from. To make it simple, lets look at one example. There are many good ones, but I am going to use the superhero category.

Best Superhero Comic 2010: Bad Guy High, Shades, Super Temps, Acrobat, Essay Bee
Best Superhero Comic 2009: Bad Guy High, Shades, Super Temps, The Super Fogeys
Best Superhero Comic 2008: Bad Guy High, Shades, Lucky Dawg, Acrobat

You will notice that there is an average of one change a year; two this year because there was an extra slot allocated. Now, did all of these comics deserve to be nominated? Yes - absolutely. Now lets take a look at Shades - who has been nominated into 31% of the available categories. Did Shades deserve to be nominated so much? Yes - absolutely. Why, there are other comics who have even more nominations!

My thought is not about telling a comic they don't qualify for more than four awards; it's about making the event accessible to more of the community. It's about making it less about wracking in awards and more about sharing the work that's out there; and giving a chance to the rising underdogs to be recognized.

There are comics out there that have been fortunate enough to become ‘favorites’. When do those who haven't had the spotlight pointed there way yet get a chance to honestly feel like they have an opportunity at competing, when the results have become so predictable?

I'm sure it's awesome to say, “I have been nominated for 15 awards!!” but I personally feel ten of those slots could have been used to highlight the diverse amount of comics within the community.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:46AM
harkovast at 7:35AM, July 26, 2010
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I never boast about numbers of nominations.
I am glad to get nominations (really glad, I loves me those nominations!), but that is just my comics fans showing their support, it doesn't prove anything in terms of being the best.
Also boasting about being nominated if you don't win seems a bit desperate to me, bragging about something you didn't win.
I think only actual awards merit bragging rights.
SO if you get one, you have my permission to boast all you want!

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:44PM
houseofmuses at 7:53AM, July 26, 2010
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Well, thanks for the Best Poser comic nomination, and best wishes to the other nominees. But I need to point out that the link to my series is wrong. It's actually http://user.drunkduck.com/houseofmuses, whereas in the first post it's been entered as http://user.drunkduck.com/House_of_Muses which won't take readers anywhere but the main page.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
usedbooks at 8:11AM, July 26, 2010
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I also don't believe in limiting the awards. As few rules as possible is my mantra.

Like I said, looking at the numbers of votes, I think the system works pretty well. You'll always see the “top” comics as well as the recently featured ones coming up in lists, But the finalists also include comics that just got four or five votes in some cases.

And seeing a comic on many lists doesn't mean too much. Well, it does. It's a nod that the comic has a lot of supportive fans. And good for them. :)

If you're curious about how it all works out, please look at last year's awards. You'll see the same situation with some titles in a lot of categories and some titles that just kinda sorta fit by some stretch into them (though there were only a couple remarks about that last year and only after the awards went live; go figure). But the winners really are shining examples of the category. And the NUMBER of nominations certainly didn't change anyone's chances of an award. (You can follow the comments of one angered fan at his favorite comic not getting awards. Heh.)

I think the few rules we have keep the game fair and interesting.
~“Only active comics or those ended this year.” – Does mean there is some turn-around. There are a lot of awesome comics that ended this year; we won't be seeing those titles again. Yes, they deserved their nomination.
~“Judging is based on the last year of work.” – It's a level playing field, so to speak. If we see some of the same titles year after year, it doesn't mean anything, we are still seeing only new work. A new comic has as fair a shake as one that has been around a long time.

Of course, the completed comic category is based on the entire work not the past year, but a comic can qualify for that award only once.




Well, we'll see how things pan out this year. So far it seems to be going at least as well as last year - but with people being far more vocal about the little nuances of the process. Heh. (And it's good that we caught those couple things JNP overlooked. I think the biggest “suggestion” coming from this is to have at least a second pair of eyes to double check the tally next year.)
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
Dark Pascual at 10:23AM, July 26, 2010
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WOOOOOOO!!!

Barely more than a year online and already 2 nominations!!!!

YEAH!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:07PM
Amelius at 2:11PM, July 26, 2010
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I didn't even tell anyone that the awards were going on specifically to avoid this! :(

Look, last year I got nominated for multiple categories and didn't win a single one. I expect the same this year. If you guys want to switch my comic out for the closest thing in each category, go right ahead. Pretend nobody voted for me at all.

If it's unfair that because my comic, which isn't going to win in any category anyway, is edging out a better comic that will have a real chance, then PLEASE replace it with that comic. Or drop me altogether from the finalists. It'll obviously make a lot of people happier.

Usedbooks
(You can follow the comments of one angered fan at his favorite comic not getting awards. Heh.)

Last year was a mortifying experience exactly for that reason, and I do not wish to repeat it! I will be the first to tell you I don't deserve the award in any one category, but that doesn't mean I want to hear everyone else making it the butt of the joke again. I have feelings too you know.





last edited on July 14, 2011 10:52AM
Walrus at 2:36PM, July 26, 2010
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JustNoPoint
*Best Photo Comic
WWE The Comic
Asshole
Lego Space
Attack of the Robofemoids



Well, I'm pretty happy, this is my second or third nomination for WWE The Comic. Congrats to everyone else who was nominated, good luck! Although Lego Space will probably win again.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:45PM
usedbooks at 2:40PM, July 26, 2010
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Amelius
Last year was a mortifying experience exactly for that reason, and I do not wish to repeat it! I will be the first to tell you I don't deserve the award in any one category, but that doesn't mean I want to hear everyone else making it the butt of the joke again. I have feelings too you know.
I'm sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to. It was more about the fan's behavior. I'm sorry your comic ends up as an example of “popularity effects” – it's because it's, well, popular.

It's also why I keep suggesting having “by votes” awards as well as the judging panel ones, but no one else has gone for the suggestion yet. And it's why we did make at least the one big “readers' award” for top votes overall. – Which you won and deserved for sure!

I'll talk to JNP and try to get those “extra” awards played up like they deserve this year, like with their own presentations rather than slapping them on the last page.

Amelius
If it's unfair that because my comic, which isn't going to win in any category anyway, is edging out a better comic that will have a real chance, then PLEASE replace it with that comic. Or drop me altogether from the finalists. It'll obviously make a lot of people happier.
Your comics were strong contenders in a few categories. It was down to the wire in some I judged. I don't think it should be a mortifying experience, and I'm very sorry you felt that way. You should be proud of your work even if it doesn't fit a cookie-cutter label (in fact, especially so) and your fans' votes are never undeserved. In the categories I helped judge, there was no bias at all against or for a comic based on popularity. We just looked at the work.

It is really hard to have to be a focus of negative feelings. It comes with popularity. It is jealousy, and it sucks to see Charby receive so much grief. However, you shouldn't think that since some people complain that it is edging out “more deserving” comics. Having seen the votes this year, I know it's not. There are very few categories with more than five eligible top comics (meaning more than a couple votes), and JNP did filter out the ones that didn't belong (except a couple that were either borderline or he accidentally missed).

In the categories I was a panelist for last year, Charby and Unlife is Unfair absolutely “fit” and showed VERY well. I'm not sure why Charby didn't take any awards. My best guess is that you make it original enough not to fit a niche audience or genre. It shows in your following – and it shows in the jealous masses too.

~~~~~~~~~~

Btw, regardless of Hark's “must win” attitude, a nomination IS an honor. Multiple nominations are an honor. If you receive them, you really do have a great comic, and you deserve the accolades. All the comics last year were great, and the judges had a really tough job. Don't think because you didn't win, that it doesn't mean anything. Those judging debates were really intense.

And if you end up the butt of a joke, think of it as a Friar's Club Roast. (I know that's hard, and I wouldn't be able to handle it myself. Obscurity has its benefits.)
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
Genejoke at 3:06PM, July 26, 2010
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Amelius
I didn't even tell anyone that the awards were going on specifically to avoid this! :(

Look, last year I got nominated for multiple categories and didn't win a single one. I expect the same this year. If you guys want to switch my comic out for the closest thing in each category, go right ahead. Pretend nobody voted for me at all.

If it's unfair that because my comic, which isn't going to win in any category anyway, is edging out a better comic that will have a real chance, then PLEASE replace it with that comic. Or drop me altogether from the finalists. It'll obviously make a lot of people happier.

Usedbooks
(You can follow the comments of one angered fan at his favorite comic not getting awards. Heh.)

Last year was a mortifying experience exactly for that reason, and I do not wish to repeat it! I will be the first to tell you I don't deserve the award in any one category, but that doesn't mean I want to hear everyone else making it the butt of the joke again. I have feelings too you know.







To be fair, any popular comic could share the same fate. Your comics absolutely should be dropped from inapropriate categories just as it should absolutely not be dropped from valid ones.

I am currently ploughing through charby… man that's a lot of pages. Don't be mortified regardless, but if you get one or more be rightfully proud.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:33PM
Amelius at 3:16PM, July 26, 2010
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Aw, Usedbooks, I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that your quote was what upset me, and it wasn't the lack of winning that got to me, it was things like this:

BffSatan
I thought I was going to be funny by posting and asking,
“WHY THE F*CK WASN'T CHARBY NOMINATED FOR BEST PHOTO COMIC?!?!??!”
But it turns out it was nominated…
“WHY THE F*CK WAS CHARBY NOMINATED FOR BEST PHOTO COMIC?!?!??!”

that were mortifying. And he kept bringing it up, even in the What the Heck forum.

I'd rather resigned to not winning things, but the snit-fit my reader threw and Bff laughing at my expense made one hell of a depressing month. :(

that, and my name was left out of the finalist presentation for “friendliest”, which Amanda did certainly deserve, but my being left out of the presentation itself made me feel like the presenter disbelieved it :( I guess nobody knows me that well either, it's a wonder I wrangled enough confidence to even post here, I'm an anxiety/depression sandwich! lol!

But I have accepted that as a generalist, I'm at the very least competent in most areas though not better than anyone here in any single category :)




last edited on July 14, 2011 10:52AM
Aelwyn at 3:19PM, July 26, 2010
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usedbooks
I also don't believe in limiting the awards. As few rules as possible is my mantra.

Based on the twenty (I've never gotten so many PQs ever O.o) PQs I've gotten since my post; thanking me for bringing up those points that had been bugging certain users for a while(in some cases years), I think it's something that should seriously be discussed before the awards next year. Clearly a portion of the community is unhappy with the system.

Also, as I stated; it has nothing to do with jealousy or telling a comic they are undeserving- it's about the opportunity to allow more of the community to be recognized.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:46AM
usedbooks at 3:39PM, July 26, 2010
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Aelwyn
usedbooks
I also don't believe in limiting the awards. As few rules as possible is my mantra.

Based on the twenty (I've never gotten so many PQs ever O.o) PQs I've gotten since my post; thanking me for bringing up those points that had been bugging certain users for a while(in some cases years), I think it's something that should seriously be discussed before the awards next year. Clearly a portion of the community is unhappy with the system.

Also, as I stated; it has nothing to do with jealousy or telling a comic they are undeserving- it's about the opportunity to allow more of the community to be recognized.
No one ever PQ's me. :( (But on the plus side, I don't get hate mail either.)

Yes, all the great comics should be recognized! Especially those that have not been noticed by features or front page exposure. Yeah, we open up discussion after the awards are over and prior to the awards next year. We hope that we get people talking, suggesting, and discussing! No one had much to say this year except for all the categories they wanted to drop – which we did.

We should come back to this thread and ideas after the awards play out in their entirety. It will be more useful to see the whole process. I'm sure we'll find other things to improve upon too.

~~~~

Btw, my comment wasn't directed at you. It was more for those suggesting disallowing a comic to be eligible for an award they won before or for limiting the number of categories a comic can be a finalist in. Your suggestions seem to be more about the system than the “rules” and altering the way we do things could definitely help.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
Genejoke at 3:45PM, July 26, 2010
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It's a difficult thing, I mean there are thousands of comics on Dd and no one person can know them all so we need the voting system in that respect, perhaps for next year the whole process could be changed, so rather than call it a vote ask readers to nominate a comic for each category, from there every comic that fits the category gets looked over by all the judges and has a chance regardless of number of votes/nominations. a lot more work for judges and organisers though.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:33PM
usedbooks at 3:50PM, July 26, 2010
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Genejoke
It's a difficult thing, I mean there are thousands of comics on Dd and no one person can know them all so we need the voting system in that respect, perhaps for next year the whole process could be changed, so rather than call it a vote ask readers to nominate a comic for each category, from there every comic that fits the category gets looked over by all the judges and has a chance regardless of number of votes/nominations. a lot more work for judges and organisers though.
Yeah, we had this suggestion before. We just couldn't scare up enough volunteers to make it even feasible. I think the awards see a lot more interest these days, so if we start on this early enough next year, we might be able to come up with a good way to get finalists without going by numbers of “votes.” (We used to call it “nominations” instead of votes, though.)

The list we get are pretty long. Taking the top so many was easier and gives more “say” to the readers. The sentiment has changed in the last couple years and there is little interest in a popularity contest, but there used to be, which is why the awards are half popularity and half critique. We'll definitely bring up these options for next year and see if the majority are in favor of it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
Nicotine at 4:07PM, July 26, 2010
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usedbooks
Amelius
If it's unfair that because my comic, which isn't going to win in any category anyway, is edging out a better comic that will have a real chance, then PLEASE replace it with that comic. Or drop me altogether from the finalists. It'll obviously make a lot of people happier.
Your comics were strong contenders in a few categories. It was down to the wire in some I judged. I don't think it should be a mortifying experience, and I'm very sorry you felt that way. You should be proud of your work even if it doesn't fit a cookie-cutter label (in fact, especially so) and your fans' votes are never undeserved. In the categories I helped judge, there was no bias at all against or for a comic based on popularity. We just looked at the work.

I agree; I out of the categories I judged last year, I think Charby was in all of them except one maybe (I don't quite remember right now). Of course, I've been here on DD for over two years, so I know which comics are really popular, and I know that Charby is one of them. But I never looked at the comics I had to judge and said “Welp, Charby's too popular to win, skip that one!” or “Charby's obviously popular for a reason, I choose Charby!”. I looked at all the comics I had to read and really scrutinized them to the best of my ability.

There was only one category I had last year that was decided on the first round of discussion (I think within like 2 days, lol), but the rest I had were talked out a little more. For every category I judged, I opened up MS Word and wrote a long list and summery of what I thought of each comic. So I can say for sure, although Charby didn't win anything, it was a heavy contender, and people had loads of great things to say about it, including myself.

This is why I'd like to see two things:
1. Judge this year, people!!! That way you can SEE how these decisions are made! It takes a lot of work to pick a winner! It's a lot of reading and comparing and effort! A lot more work than when you typed in your fave comic's name in the ballot!

2. I don't know how this would work, but if JNP could, by request, PQ people some of the criticism and praise they recieved during the judging process, I think that would be great. That would be an awesome condolence prize to those who didn't win (if they want it). I remember thinking, “Man! I love Comic Whatchamacholit's way of doing, so and so, too bad they can't see what I've written here, even though they didn't win :/”. And since I lost in my category last year, I was *dying* to know what the judges thought of my work because they claimed in was a tight decision. @_@
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:16PM
JustNoPoint at 4:16PM, July 26, 2010
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This year I would like us to go ahead and talk (like we are now) about what we want to change now. Waiting till the next year never works out cause 3 or 4 of us have slept since then.

The 1st time the awards were done it was strictly by popularity. So pretty much only comics in the top 10 got the awards.

The next year Amanda and Jess took control. Trying to make it so that more comics can get a chance at an award they came up with the judging method we have now. It worked pretty good :) Even though using the PQ system to talk between 3 people wasn't fun and it kept Amanda in the dark.

The next year I teamed up with Amanda. I introduced a better voting system my friend coded for me, the forum where all the judges could discuss much easier and where me and Amanda could monitor the progress. And I counted half the votes. Probably the ones that had discrepancies :P

This time I am doing everything me and Amanda did last year. Or trying too XD

If I can make a suggestion? I don't want to remove the popular vote. But maybe we could extend the whole process a bit? For an extra 2 weeks after the finalists are announced we could see a list of everyone that didn't get into the finalists and let people post comments about it? Or take a larger portion instead of the whole list and do that? A bit of an open forum debate on the list?

Or maybe even just picking a few comics at random? I have no idea if any of that is viable :P Just throwing that one out there too. I should make a thread that has all the suggestions so we can look at the pros and cons.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
Loud_G at 4:17PM, July 26, 2010
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Thank you all for the nomination! I've never made it this far in the 3 years I've been here!

Thanks so much for the support!
Find out what George is up to:

 
 
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:46PM
JustNoPoint at 4:24PM, July 26, 2010
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I really wanted to open up the forum after the judging was over so ppl could actually see what was said. But me and Amanda didn't want to risk an author being upset for not winning and “attacking” one of the judges. Though I had intended on opening it up to some I trusted so they could see what was said. You was one of them Nicotine. I've never heard of you getting upset over feedback. But that could be looked at favoritism or something too. So I never did it -_-

It's also a lot easier to be totally honest if you trust that no one outside the group you are talking to can read what you are saying. Not that anyone was particularly nasty but at times people did mention negative aspects about comics that was a little colorful :P

I remember reading a particularly colorful one about my comic last year haha! What really made it funny was later on when I posted to make sure everyone had reached the final verdict the response was like “Oh crap you could read this the whole time?!” =D
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
Loud_G at 4:29PM, July 26, 2010
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JNP: You could post the comments after the judging, just make them all anonymous.
Find out what George is up to:

 
 
Go! Visit George or he may have to eat you!*
*Disclaimer: George may or may not eat violators depending on hunger level and scarcity of better tasting prey.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:46PM
usedbooks at 4:29PM, July 26, 2010
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posts: 2,609
joined: 2-24-2007
I like the idea of using MORE of the nominees in the final round. Like instead of having X number of finalists, we take everyone with more than X number of votes. That way categories with more good qualifying comics will have more finalists and popular comics will not beat anyone out of a slot, since the number of finalists is not fixed. – Comics will still have to get votes to be finalists. It will simply make it more flexible for the differences in the categories and will result in less resentment toward popular comics and toward those that seem less suited to the category.

Plus, we wont have to strain to fill spots in less heavily voted categories. And people who win tough categories can look at how much competition they had and feel extra proud.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 4:49PM, July 26, 2010
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Hi Aelwyn I don't think we've met, nice to meet you. I'm Evil Emperor Nick. You might not know this but I used to run the awards on DD a while back before DD shifted over the Platinum and they decided to make an official set of DD awards. I also worked hard last year to win two DD awards and recently set my sights on getting and just this very day achieved becoming the #1 comic on DD (as rated by the official site standings) at least for today. So when I say you have some nice delusions about the DD awards and awards in general I'm not saying that to be snarky or be sarcastic but because I have some experience that you lack and at one point I shared some of your same misconceptions, which that experience has taught me better.

First off is there room for improvement in the DD awards? Yes, always.

That said you are totally off base about what the DD awards are. Let me point out a few things you seem to have missed.

1st – The DD awards are not in point of fact here to recognize new, undiscovered or under appreciated talent, that is what the featured comics are for and it runs all year round. The time for DD to recognize comics that no one knows about and someone here thinks is special and more people need to see is not the DD awards nor in fact should it be because we spend the whole rest of the year doing that and given the way featured comics jump up into the top 25 or even the top 10 sometimes I have to say they are doing their job of getting people to check the comic out fairly consistently.

2nd – Awards are by their very nature, a subjective thing designed to highlight what a certain group of people thing is great. This can be MTV executives, the academy of arts, the people of Pierre South Dakota or any other group, however in this case it is the readers and frequenters of DD. Frequenters which is about 100,000 strong give or take from what I've been able to estimate and the vast majority of those people like the top comics on DD and are consequently going to want to honor those comics. So even 20 or so people is roughly 0.0002% of drunk duck. If we assume that even 1 in 1000 of those people even bother with the DD awards that is only 0.2% is that a high number of forum goers? Maybe, since very few readers go the forum, but is it a high percentage of the total population of DD? No.

3rd – There is no fair. There is no objective standard. You say DD has unnoticed creativity, I agree, but I'm willing to bet we disagree heavily on what those are. I very much doubt the comics I'd want to give more exposure to would match your list. So which of us is right? We can't honor everyone after all or it really isn't an honor. We already have judges to try and pick the most deserving comics from those which the fans nominate. Do you propose to take the system completely out of the reader's hands? They are not really the DD awards anymore in that case. Go look at the Web Creator's choice awards or any similar awards and you'll find that an average of one new finalist each year is about average.

4th – People are always going to complain no matter what. I promise you every year I ran the awards I got over 20 PQs complaining no matter what I did and no matter who won and we had less people on DD back then.

5th – Readers want popular comics to win, creators want unnoticed talent to win. It is just the rule of things. This is why in 1941 the academy gave the award for best picture to How Green Was My Valley while the Maltese Falcon and Citizen Kane of all movies got snubbed. Now may I ask you, in all honesty, how many people here really think How Green Was My Valley was the better film? Heck, how many people even heard of it? Is that sort of attitude what we really want to emulate for the DD awards?

If you want a comic to get into the finalist you need to campaign for it. When I wanted to win a DD award last year I went to the wall making myself known as well as my desire to win. In addition to just doing the best comic I knew how to do I advertised like crazy, I promised my fans bonuses if I won, I gave people easy to use links, I reminded them about the awards and told them to focus on the awards I thought best fit CQ, and you know what? I got in. I wasn't even in the top 25 consistently back then much less the top 10 and I still managed to get a nomination in more then one category. How many of these comics you feel should have won did any of that because in the wide world of real competition that is what you have to do to win and no “fix” to the system is going to change that.

If you want to DD awards to mean something, and I certainly hope you do otherwise lets rip the Duck off there and put an Inanimate Carbon Rod at the top and just slap it into everyone's inbox, you have to accept the fact that how well known you are, how hard you try are just as important factors as how good your pages are and how frequently you update.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
Aelwyn at 5:26PM, July 26, 2010
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posts: 65
joined: 8-21-2009
@Evil Emperor Nick

1. Hello, nice to meet you as well.

2. You seem to think I thought twenty people were a huge slice of the population here on DD, when I'm fairly sure I said it is a 'Portion' of the community. And when a ‘portion’ of the community wants to see conversation take place because there is room for improvement, I don't think it should simply be discredited because it is only, as you said, 0.0002% of the people that click around the site.

3. I don't think you really read my suggestion at all, because I never, ever suggested “taking the system completely out of the reader's hands.” I simply suggested finding a way to make the awards more accessible to the comics who don't have enough fans to outnumber some of the giants that have been here for years.

4. I'm not really going to touch on your last points; because you seem to think I am upset that my, or comics that I read did not get nominated - when that has nothing to do with it at all. I also find it a bit offensive that you think how well someone advertise decides how good they are at what they do. There are some fantastic creators out there that don't know the first thing about advertising.

But thank you, anyways, for calling my one suggestion (In an attempt to be helpful) a delusion. I suppose for now on I should just keep my mouth shut.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:46AM
houseofmuses at 5:39PM, July 26, 2010
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posts: 156
joined: 4-4-2008
Nick, really. What was that all about?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
Genejoke at 5:48PM, July 26, 2010
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posts: 3,075
joined: 4-9-2010
@Aelwyn
Whatever you do do not keep your mouth shut, or keyboard untyped.

Regardless of whether your suggestion is workable or not the discussion is worthwhile even if only to eliminate such ideas.


If the DD awards are only about popularity then they may as well be the charts. The point of awards is to recognise greatness.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:33PM

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