Debate and Discussion

9-11
ozoneocean at 1:56AM, Sept. 11, 2009
(online)
posts: 24,938
joined: 1-2-2006
It's that time again. The 11th of September.
What do you remember from then? What were you doing around that time etc?
What are your feelings on what happened since?

I remember watching it on TV while it happened. I must have been staying up all night working on a design for a giftware company… when I saw it I thought it was a joke. I couldn't believe something so silly was happening for real. It was like the scenario for the stupidest of Hollywood disaster movies, the very stupidist, dumbest, idiotic, annoyingly bad straight to video ones.
But Apparently it was real. O_O

Outsiders never see these sorts of things the same way as locals though, it's dishonest, facile and mischievous to pretend otherwise. In Australia most people I know looked on the event with shocked disbelief; such an enormous tragedy, but even so, was it a joke? Where was the catch? These sorts of things just don't happen to the U.S.

A couple of years after when I was doing my post grad studies at uni, in one of the classes the lecturer was showing photo manipulations. One showed an image of a tourist atop a high building with an aeroplane behind him, flying towards the building. The whole class was rather amused apart from this one normally good natured American fellow- he was extremely offended. Extremely so. And very upset. He used to be a fire-fighter before he came to Australia to study… so understandably he had quite a different perspective on the subject. It was a shame because he was such a wonderful, generous, friendly, helpful guy, he even worked for the Red Cross. No one wanted to see him upset.

So it's still a terrible event even now… Unfortunately I think the memory has been a bit muddied and dishonoured by all the years of pointless war and wasted lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. Because of those two continuing blemishes we don't remember 9/11 with as much honour and gravity as we might have done at this stage… I feel they've tended to minimise and even trivialise it and its importance to some extent.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
ParkerFarker at 3:26AM, Sept. 11, 2009
(online)
posts: 1,451
joined: 4-29-2009
I remember when I woke up in the morning I watched it. My neighbour came over and she watched it on our tv too. I had this big book full of blank pages so I drew a picture of it. In my picture the people had parachutes and could escape. I was like 7.

I lived in New York for the past 4 years, and my mum has a friend who cries at this time every year. Her husband lived in the building opposite the Pentagon or something.

I also think it sucks that there's a war over it.

“We are in the stickiest situation since Sticky the stick insect got stuck on a sticky bun.” - Blackadder
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:39PM
BffSatan at 4:07AM, Sept. 11, 2009
(online)
posts: 1,478
joined: 3-2-2008
It was actually a pretty good day for me. My mother had been in hospital for a while and she was moved out of intensive care that day. I got to go on a school excursion and meet my favourite author at the time, Andy Griffiths (I was eight).
I do remember being horrified by the footage being played on TV and I remember a lot of talk at school about it.

Also, InB4Kyupol'sConspiracyTheory
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:21AM
Product Placement at 11:04AM, Sept. 11, 2009
(online)
posts: 7,078
joined: 10-18-2007
This is a fairly rememberable day for me.

I was in high school at the time and due to the time difference, the attack happened around lunch time. I went to sit down at my usual table in the mess hall/gathering place and someone had heard about the attack, who heard it from someone else, who heard it from someone else. By the time it reach my ears, it had evolved into: “Some lunatic stole a fighter jet and launched missiles into the twin towers, before crashing into the buildings himself.”

Naturally, I was a bit skeptic until I started hearing similar (and more accurate) versions of the story. I only had one class left after lunch on that day but my teacher, who wasn't as informed as I was decided that she wasn't gonna cancel class because of some accident in another country and denied my request to dismiss it. Less then third of the class showed up for that lesson.

After class me and my teacher, opened up her laptop and had a difficult time connecting with the internet. We finally managed to load up half the page for BBC.com and at that point I saw the first pictures of the situation. The second tower had been hit at this point.

When I traveled downstairs to the mess hall, a TV had been set up and was connected to the government channel. It was airing a live feed from a foreign news network were two Icelandic news presenters dubbed their opinion on the attack as it was happening. Unfortunately one of those anchormen was Mr. monotone. The most boring presenter on this entire planet. He ALWAYS spoke with this tired, slow paced, monotone voice and could make anything he talked about, boring. I swear to god, he even managed to make this boring to watch. Thankfully, he's retired now.

I remember one person on the TV remarking that he was glad that the towers survived the impact so that they could repair it.

I decided to take the bus home, where I had access to foreign channels (thank you satellite TV). By the time I finally turned on the telly in the living room, the second tower had recently collapsed. That fact did not prevent them from re-running that shot over and over and over again for the rest of the day.

It was definitely a surreal day for me.
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:51PM
GracehFaceh at 1:14PM, Sept. 11, 2009
(online)
posts: 433
joined: 10-2-2008
I was 7 at the time, and I remember being pulled out of school in the middle of the day… I don't remember if I was told what happened prior to being picked up, but all I was thinking once I was told was that my dad had taken a plane to Chicago that morning and my mom couldn't reach him. My mom didn't know if he was okay for a while and my dad's family kept calling in tears out of fear that he was dead. Luckily, he was okay though. He didn't believe my mom at first when she told him what happened. I don't think everyone ate dinner that night. It was horrible.

After I knew my family was okay, I regret to say I didn't take it very seriously (being seven and all) even though my parents were trying to put together a bomb shelter and everything weeks after since we're not too far from New york. The tragedy finally hit me when I was older and to this day I still cry over it. My dad was watching a documentary about it, showing actual footage of people falling from the buildings… I made him turn it off. I don't think those people would like to have been remembered that way.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:38PM
lothar at 4:53PM, Sept. 11, 2009
(online)
posts: 1,299
joined: 1-3-2006
i remember i had been up all night playing anarchy online , i was on dial up and everybody in the house was gone to work or school exept me . everyone else found out about it before me cuz i dont generaly watch tv and the phone line was tied up with the internet connection so nobody could get through to tell me .. i didnt find out until my sis came over and beat on the garage door till i noticed the noise . she told me america was getting attacked and turned on the tv , my first response was to ROFL maybe cuz i hadn't slept for 24 hours or maybe cuz it seemed so fake . my sis said i was a bastard for LOLing and didnt talk to me for half a year lol .. i woke up my friend and we took our last 20$ and went to the store to buy bottled water , i thought maybe alqueda would try to poison the tap water .. then we went to the college to watch peoples reactions to the tragedy . that night it was very cool cuz there was nothing flying and i lived under the local flight path at that time so was used to seeing airplanes every five minutes , it was sooo quiet , kinda wish they would never let planes fly again

i made a comic about it
http://www.drunkduck.com/Coming_Soon/index.php?p=89183
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Orin J Master at 5:09PM, Sept. 11, 2009
(online)
posts: 437
joined: 12-16-2007
woke up, hit the news. natural reflex, in case something major is goin' on.

first, i thought it was funny. seriously, they never built a lock-out system to keep people other than the pilots from using what equates to a gigantic fire bomb? that's comedy Gold, man. thanks for the laugh, suckers!

then, i figured it'd be a good thing. the US had always been a prick about other nations getting bombed like that, maybe the wind getting knocked out it's sails would make them more helpful and actually put a stop to extremist mentalities by giving them a useful outlet for their grievences instead of “RRRRRRRRRRR- BLOW EVERYTHING UP!”

then the borderline-illiterate porchmonkey of a president went “RRRRRRRRRRR- BLOW EVERYTHING UP!”, took an extremist stance about the whole thing, and caused at least a decade worth of useless international strife by randomly attacking middle east nations without any planning, forethought, or quantifiable goal.

then i started hoping for it to happen weekly so people would realize what “war on terror” would have to result in. fuckers got lazy after on good hit….
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
Hakoshen at 6:22PM, Sept. 11, 2009
(offline)
posts: 2,090
joined: 11-23-2008
I was playing Mechwarrior 3 online, and someone said on the voice chat “Hey, turn it to CNN, the Pentagon was attacked.” I thought no way. So I turn on CNN. And then… oh shit.

To make matters worse, the military installation which houses half of the local population was locked down, with no one getting in or out. I had only been working at Wal-Mart for 10 days, and I got the call to come in about an hour later, cause shit had just gotten crazy. I had just turned 18 five days prior. I think I put in about 14 hours that day.
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
mamaya94 at 7:41PM, Sept. 11, 2009
(online)
posts: 164
joined: 1-20-2009
Wow…
I don't have a special memory about 9.11 because I was at Korea and I was just 8 years old(I'm not a sensitive and sentimental person)

It is interesting how everyone was doing when the News came out…
Main Comic


Finished one
Hanged Doll:Where does your memory begin???
http://www.drunkduck.com/hanged_doll/

Resting one
30 years:30 years of pain and suffering…Time for payback
http://www.drunkduck.com/30_Years/
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:50PM
Chernobog at 9:39PM, Sept. 11, 2009
(offline)
posts: 926
joined: 11-3-2007
I was in my early 20's at the time, unemployed, and asleep when it began. Got a call from my mum demanding I go check the news immediately without further explanation.

So, I shambled into the next room where two of my roommates were watching transfixed on the television. They gave me a basic run down of ‘a plane flew into a tower’ so I watched for a few minutes, absorbing it.

While the news announcer commented on the situation and they panned to the second tower intact, suddenly another plane just nails it dead on from seemingly out of nowhere by the perspective given.

I felt a bit confused and a bit saddened. But it felt like no time at all when the tower just collapsed right after that, and I can honestly say despite being a consistently misanthropic sort, I'm not so extreme that my heart didn't sink watching that happen.

One of my roommates started to cry, held by the other, and after a while I excused myself. Getting dressed, I went outside after an hour or so to walk around.

The streets were almost completely empty of any cars moving and I lived on a Main Street at the time. I remember watching the traffic light continue on, an automated machine indifferent to the situation of what had happened and unable to wonder why it was not needed suddenly.

I went through most of the day simply wandering around quietly, lost in my thoughts. There was a tangible malaise in the air, you could just feel it. No one outside the house talked, they just had this distant numb expression. I would say there was a peculiar look of a ‘mental reset’ on everyone's face. Quietest day I'd known in that town. People I spoke with on Everquest that day couldn't believe what they were hearing from me.

The next day, while the news junkies poured over every detail, I was largely over it. Of course, I can only say that probably because I didn't know anyone personally who worked in one of the towers since several years prior, and even then I didn't know if he still was there at the time.

My friend, however, took it hard. She couldn't imagine such a thing had actually occurred and even while she didn't know anyone there either, she was mentally offline for the next two weeks straight (I counted). I should also note during this time, people were notably much nicer and reserved with each other. That, of course, did not last more than a few months.

I also tried joining the military service not too long after (my reasons were not what you'd imagine), but was immediately disqualified over the phone after several attempts for bad knees (Stage 2 Lymes = arthritic knees).

Ultimately, I left the situation with a thought that it was an unfortunate wake up call for a great many people living their sheltered lives within a sense of personal invincibility. People were panicky, scared, and started thinking the centers of their small world were targets too.
 
 
“You tell yourself to just
enjoy the process,” he added. “That whether you succeed or fail, win or
lose, it will be fine. You pretend to be Zen. You adopt detachment, and
ironic humor, while secretly praying for a miracle.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:41AM
Vagabond at 9:26AM, Sept. 12, 2009
(online)
posts: 93
joined: 1-30-2006
It was my freshman year in high school. We had just wrapped up first period and while I was making my way to second period, a friend came up to me and said, “Hey, didja hear that a plane flew into the White House?” As we're crossing the threshold to the classroom, I'm thinking that it was just some tiny Cessna plane, that it was nothing serious, and that it was all a big joke.

The somber expressions of everyone in the class as we were all glued to the television proved otherwise. Less than 5 minutes into the class, the second plane flew into the WTC. Halfway through second period, we started getting reports that the Pentagon had been attacked. Considering that the Pentagon was less than 10 miles away, things got really serious. Yet we kept on changing classes whenever the bell rang, during which we could hear fighter planes flying overhead.

My dad was on the Pentagon metro stop 15 minutes before it got hit; my mom could hear the explosion from her office (she worked less than 5 miles away from the Pentagon) when the plane crashed into the outer walls. While my family lucked out, I knew quite a few families that didn't.

The whole 2 days after that were just a blur as we all slowly tried to stop watching the television repeating the images of the crash, and move on with our lives.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
jaex at 11:24AM, Sept. 12, 2009
(offline)
posts: 40
joined: 8-30-2007
Vagabond

Yeah, my school was less than 5 minutes away from Andrew's AFB. I remember all of the jets taking off– it was just like constant thunder.

And then my mom picked me and my siblings up from school early because they were evacuating us, and when we got home we stood in the middle of the street with most of our neighbors and just talked about it all while the planes flew around.

Out of all the things I remember about that day, that stood out the most for me. Just this odd congregation of people, standing around in a haphazard circle. Even the silent/invisible neighbors came out of their homes to stand there. When a car came, we'd shift out of the way, but we always moved right back to the middle of the street after it passed.

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM
qqq at 4:07PM, Sept. 12, 2009
(offline)
posts: 122
joined: 8-10-2009
I remember that it didn't affect me, I think I was around 12-15 back then and I said then that the UN wilfully lets a number of people die due to poverty because they impose ‘sanctions’ unto other countries and know it's just going to kill the common innocent man and malaria probably kills that amount of people in a week, and honestly I still feel the same about it and think it's stupid that people make such a fuzz about this when you're talking about a country where five that many people die of obesity each year because the government is too indifferent to get some proper food regulation.

3000 deaths is nothing on a world scale, the intention of those people can also be excused and people have been doing the same since old. But if you're doing it yourself, it's a ‘necessary price to pay’, the casulties of civilians, the torturing of prisoners without due trying. But if the other party does it it's fuel for the propaganda machine of how evil and ruthless they are so you can convince your people to back you up to do it even more. Both sides are utterly stupid, because both sides are human. A single death's a tragedy, a milion a statistic, who knows?

You guys might also want to search into Bush' heralded quote 'we know he's guilty, turn him over', the Taliban was fully praepaired to turn Osama over to a neutral country for trying on the sole condition that Bush provided the evidence he claimed he had, he didn't, and still to this day I believe (don't quote me on it) that that supposed evidence is ‘classified’. Amazing how the whole world opinion has turned to that he's guilty if most people, including myself, have never seen a shred of evidence to indicate it.

I'm probably stepping on some folk's toes with this but so be it. Some body's got to bring the nasty news of the true situation, world politics is a filthy business, both sides, 3000 deaths are inconsequential in the game of world politics. Of course, there's also a lot more going on than the official story of how the towers collapsed. I'm not saying they blew it up themselves, I'm just saying that the official story has some pretty implausible parts to it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
elektro at 11:26PM, Sept. 12, 2009
(online)
posts: 807
joined: 6-18-2009
Freshman year of High School. I remember overhearing something about it in my art class at around 9:30-10:00. I knew nothing about what happened because we had no TV at our school until they put in cable the next school year (or semester: it's been many years). I do remember that I watched the TV as soon as I got home from school.

Of course, my opinion on what happened since is less than stellar. I personally think that quite a few people use 9/11 as an excuse to make money. Right after 9/11, I remember some douchebag coinmakers as well as musicians and politicians exploiting what happened to stir up patriotic feelings and give them more money, along with supporting even the most outrageous of wars. I'd go on, but I don't want to start a political argument.

The funny thing is that 9/11, along with all the other stuff that happened in response to it, helped give me a half-ass interest in politics. It's how much of my cartoon style came to be. Nowadays, I don't use politics as much in my stuff. It doesn't help that we no longer have a president that is so easily ridiculed (but damn it, I will try).
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:21PM
dueeast at 12:19AM, Sept. 13, 2009
(online)
posts: 1,093
joined: 5-6-2007
I had just dropped off my oldest son to school when the local talk radio reported “possibly a small aircraft” crashing into the WTC. By the time I commuted cross-town to work, the second plane had hit and I knew it was deliberate terrorism.

I was on the phone with my terrified wife when the first tower fell, and then I watched it minutes later on the big-screen TV in the conference room. I was a network administrator for an office of engineers…they explained in great detail how the ignited jet fuel destroyed the metal infrastructure of the building and caused the fall of the building(s).

The worst part was that I had to pick up my son early from school and explain it to him. He was only 5 at the time.

The whole thing made me sick, literally. By evening, I had a fever, probably from stressing out so badly over the whole thing.

I blacked out my non-profit org's website and directed people to donate to the Red Cross for about a week. I'll never forget that. I got the idea from, ironically, Wil Wheaton's site. He blacked his out each Sept. 11 for years. I don't know if he still does, but I wouldn't be surprised…
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
blntmaker at 5:45PM, Sept. 13, 2009
(online)
posts: 340
joined: 6-2-2007
I was beginning my first day of work in a different school district. Came home from the gym and heard it on the radio. I thought it was similar to the attacks in the 90's. By the time I showered and left for work, that certainly wasn't the case.

I was a specialist, who gave learning support to teachers in the classroom and helped to write curriculum. My first day, I went to an elementary school where clearly, many of the younger children didn't understand what was going on…but they knew enough to see it was a sad situation. How does human interest supercede political games when determining what matters in this world.


qqq
I remember that it didn't affect me, I think I was around 12-15 back then and I said then that the UN wilfully lets a number of people die due to poverty because they impose ‘sanctions’ unto other countries and know it's just going to kill the common innocent man and malaria probably kills that amount of people in a week, and honestly I still feel the same about it and think it's stupid that people make such a fuzz about this when you're talking about a country where five that many people die of obesity each year because the government is too indifferent to get some proper food regulation.

WOW…All that at the age of “12-15”? Amazing. I think the only thing I find alarming about your response is the lack of sensitivity. Even as you say, “I feel…” - You “feel”…WHAT exactly?

Is that what's become of our society? Three thousand people are killed and its no big deal? Look, I have the same beef about how responsible our government should have been in the light of all this…even down to the negotiation of handing everyone over who was responsible. When you're mad, you want justice right away. But I don't believe the people who woke up that day to live their daily lives expected to die over politics and who did what to which country. Not exactly the same as an obese person who may or may not choose to eat healthy or exercise.

Any violent death, ANYWHERE is significant. Whether in the USA or…Djibouti. Even if two or several countries disagree. If we're at a point in our society where we simply aren't affected by violence of this magnitude, especially when we cannot fully comprehend all the forces at work, then we're lost as a country. I'm sure to the families of the people lost in that violence, 3,000 deaths is a big deal. Its easy to say from TV set or when you didn't suffer a loss yourself that the events of 9/11 were “no big deal”. That's someone's brother, father…mother…sister.

It's a big deal because as a country, we have to learn from that. Its the whole point of learning your history…so you're not doomed to repeat the past. As people on this planet, we sure better figure out where our priorities lie or 3,000 deaths on 9/11/01 will mean 300,000 tomorrow.



last edited on July 14, 2011 11:26AM
dueeast at 10:19PM, Sept. 13, 2009
(online)
posts: 1,093
joined: 5-6-2007
Let's put things in perspective. Sure, in the course of nearly 7 billion people living on the Earth, 3000 people dying is not a large number.

But this isn't about statistics, qqq. Let's make it personal. If it's YOUR wife, your mother or father, your sister or brother, your best friend or your child, the loss of one life is unimaginable, it's earth-shattering. I have a wife who is more precious to me than my own life; the same for my two children. God forbid, if something happened to them, I would never be the same.

That was the case for the loved ones of those 3000 who died on September 11, 2001. We can argue about politics or statistics or reasons why till we're blue in the face. I can deal with that.

But unless you can put your true feelings on the line and put yourself in those people's collective shoes, so to speak, you have no right to trivialize the deaths of those people – or anyone else who dies tragically. Sure, it happens every day. And it is just as tragic and horrible and MEANINGFUL, for each person.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
BffSatan at 1:39AM, Sept. 14, 2009
(online)
posts: 1,478
joined: 3-2-2008
Rwanda genocide
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
2004 tsunami
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@
9/11
@

So American lives are worth more are they?

This is what you are saying.


(each @ represents 3,000 deaths)

I would put the Afghan civil war on it, but that would be more than twice the size of the Rwanda genocide.

9/11 is really just a speck.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:21AM
ozoneocean at 2:28AM, Sept. 14, 2009
(online)
posts: 24,938
joined: 1-2-2006
No need to stretch the forum to make a point BffSatan.
Sorry, I shrunk your graph so now it's no longer accurate. It would probably be better to illustrate and upload a bar graph or pie chart anyway. ;)

The thing is that American loves ARE worth more to the American people, as is the case with every country with their own people.
As you know, in the geoplotical environment the U.S. is very powerful so other countries will support what they do just to stay on their good side. Culturally the country and its people mean a lot to others around the world because of cultural colonisation through cultural/social exports so American lives often mean more to them than the lives of those from most other foreign countries.

All the English speaking countries share a connection through shared history, language and culture so again American lives mean more to them than people from non-English speaking countries.

9/11 IS a tiny little speck, but it still means a lot to people.
And unfortunately because of the misguided retaliatory war against Afghanistan, it means even more but for the wrong reasons. :(
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
BffSatan at 2:51AM, Sept. 14, 2009
(online)
posts: 1,478
joined: 3-2-2008
ozoneocean
No need to stretch the forum to make a point BffSatan.
Sorry, I shrunk your graph so now it's no longer accurate. It would probably be better to illustrate and upload a bar graph or pie chart anyway. ;)
Sorry for the stretch, figured that would be easier, it's fixed now anyway.


But they shouldn't matter more, at least not that much more. 9/11 happened eight years ago, Rwanda happened 13 years ago, the Tsunami only 5 years ago. Both those event have been almost forgotten yet 9/11 is remembered annually. It even got two sequels with even higher death tolls.
I don't disagree that to an American 9/11 should have an emotional reaction to it, but at least they could give a crap about the millions of people dieing in wars and genocides around the world everyday. At least break out of their own ignorance and learn what the real world is like, that this kind of thing is routine in some countries and America only got a little taste of it.
The families of those who died have a right to mourn. Everybody else should get over it. Focus on preventing future death, crying about the past isn't going to save anybodies lives.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:21AM
qqq at 4:17AM, Sept. 14, 2009
(offline)
posts: 122
joined: 8-10-2009
blntmaker
qqq
I remember that it didn't affect me, I think I was around 12-15 back then and I said then that the UN wilfully lets a number of people die due to poverty because they impose ‘sanctions’ unto other countries and know it's just going to kill the common innocent man and malaria probably kills that amount of people in a week, and honestly I still feel the same about it and think it's stupid that people make such a fuzz about this when you're talking about a country where five that many people die of obesity each year because the government is too indifferent to get some proper food regulation.

WOW…All that at the age of “12-15”? Amazing. I think the only thing I find alarming about your response is the lack of sensitivity. Even as you say, “I feel…” - You “feel”…WHAT exactly?
I can get angry to things, or mildly annoyed actually, I praefer to turn off my limbic system and take full advantages of my neocortex. But I can't say that 9/11 maked me extreme shocked, the post below with the @-signs shows why. More people die of malaria and other illnesses each month because medicine in this world is not the art of helping people, it's the art of making money from the fact that people get sick. Patents on medication and all, that can get me ‘mildly annoyed’.

Is that what's become of our society? Three thousand people are killed and its no big deal? Look, I have the same beef about how responsible our government should have been in the light of all this…even down to the negotiation of handing everyone over who was responsible. When you're mad, you want justice right away. But I don't believe the people who woke up that day to live their daily lives expected to die over politics and who did what to which country. Not exactly the same as an obese person who may or may not choose to eat healthy or exercise.
It's no big deal because it happens every day. By definition, ‘big deals’ happen rarely. One could say that it's a bad thing, sure, but then bad things are quite extremely common.

To which I could concede, the world, evolved as she is, is a rotten place to be, alas it's not designed by some intelligent force to evolve towards a sensible path or created ex nihilo to be man's paradise. It's here via random and chaotic evolution and it sucks thereto. Things like this are commonplace in this world, if you call this a big deal then wait until you start to read all the news. Things like this happen every single day, I'm not exaggerating.

Any violent death, ANYWHERE is significant. Whether in the USA or…Djibouti. Even if two or several countries disagree. If we're at a point in our society where we simply aren't affected by violence of this magnitude, especially when we cannot fully comprehend all the forces at work, then we're lost as a country. I'm sure to the families of the people lost in that violence, 3,000 deaths is a big deal. Its easy to say from TV set or when you didn't suffer a loss yourself that the events of 9/11 were “no big deal”. That's someone's brother, father…mother…sister.
I beg to differ, it's quite insignificant, a single human live in the cosmos, humanity cannot even properly define what ‘live’ means, what actually chemically changes if a corpus ‘dies’, if any. And what's a ‘violent’ death exactly? A death caused by kinetic energy rather than the decay of vital functions?

Mind I remind you that humans en masse are carnivores? They breed whole castes of other animals and hold them in barbaric conditions to hone their vast need for food, every single person in that tower until that point probably already ate the biomass of those 3 000 people that died there, and probably threw away the tenfold. I don't grant humans the special, narcissist, place in the oecosystem they often hold themselves to have. I praefer to look to it like an outsider, it's a chaotic universe and you need to kill to get what you want, one of those things is a meal every day. Others are freedom for your people without any American influence.

If an American soldier gives the life for some other soldiers and kills some enemies with it, that person is lauded as a hero posthumously. If some one with a turban and a beard does it then suddenly that person is automatically insane, violent, and probably indoctrinated and brainwashed too that it's ‘holy’. It's all the same. Many people seem to believe that if two factions war or even argue about some thing that one is automatically ‘right’, mostly, both are wrong, because humans simply are more often wrong than right.

It's a big deal because as a country, we have to learn from that. Its the whole point of learning your history…so you're not doomed to repeat the past. As people on this planet, we sure better figure out where our priorities lie or 3,000 deaths on 9/11/01 will mean 300,000 tomorrow.
I can't say I find that after it they learnt to stop meddling in the world's affairs and stop policing it. More like the reverse.

Some things, really do grow stronger if you hit them. Each Al-Qa'ida solider you kill, you create a martyr and two more rise to fill for their fallen brother's noble sacrifice in their eyes.

dueeast
But this isn't about statistics, qqq. Let's make it personal. If it's YOUR wife, your mother or father, your sister or brother, your best friend or your child, the loss of one life is unimaginable, it's earth-shattering. I have a wife who is more precious to me than my own life; the same for my two children. God forbid, if something happened to them, I would never be the same.
And there are very little people that have experienced this compared to how many people experience this every day? I'm just putting it into world perspective.

What I'm saying here is ‘Why does 9/11 get so much attention and not all the other gazillion things that happen that are similar?’

dueeast
That was the case for the loved ones of those 3000 who died on September 11, 2001. We can argue about politics or statistics or reasons why till we're blue in the face. I can deal with that.

But unless you can put your true feelings on the line and put yourself in those people's collective shoes, so to speak, you have no right to trivialize the deaths of those people – or anyone else who dies tragically. Sure, it happens every day. And it is just as tragic and horrible and MEANINGFUL, for each person.
If the media reported aequally about all the other things to which this story of you also applies, it had to broadcast 48 hours a day and get seven times as much channels and 37 times as much newspapers if you get what I'm saying.

I'm not phased by this for the same reason that you're not phased by this because today is four years back an entire village 4000 heads strong was butchered in Ghanda by an anarchist tribe. I'm just using an illustration here, no idea if that happened. If I told you this now and it was true? would you be affected by it? Maybe you would be, maybe you wouldn't, but most people that said ‘That’s horrible' in reality can't give a shit and forget about it in a quarter hour.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
bravo1102 at 8:54AM, Sept. 14, 2009
(online)
posts: 3,295
joined: 1-21-2008
Part of the significance of 9/11 was that it was an attack and that a lot of people died quickly. Then there was the shock of a great power being struck by terrorists. It was just one morning and a major center of population in the USA was effected. Pearl Harbor had been thousands of miles away, Rwanda is in a remote part of Africa, the Tsuanami was on the other side of the world. Millions of Americans could look outside their windows and see the smoke. Twenty miles north of where I lived you could have heard the explosions.

I was unemployed and recovering from my emotional breakdown in January 2001. I watched it on Cable News, then listened to it on 770 WABC which was live and on the spot in NYC. I also went to the hobby shop to pick up some paint and by then the attack was being put together along with Pennslyvania and the Pentagon strikes. We were all wondering if the Pennsy attack had been shot down as we heard the USAF overhead by the afternoon. I could look off into the distance and see the smoke plume. Over 30 people in my town died in the 9/11 attack, several of whom I knew.

For me it was live and local. My brother's National Guard unit was activated for Homeland security duty and it led to a career change for him. I looked into reenlisting but I'd have to prove my medical conditions had been resolved (bursitis, tendonitis and chornic cervical spondolosis) One had and the other two had gotten worse.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
qqq at 11:16AM, Sept. 14, 2009
(offline)
posts: 122
joined: 8-10-2009
KayleeVersus
Let me make something clear…

ANY violent death, anywhere is significant. Not just in America…anywhere. When I've come to school to hear the news of a student of mine gunned down in his neighborhood by a stray bullet, its a big deal. If the same news happened across the country, its a big deal. Ethnic cleansing on foreign soil against a society of people is a big deal.
Do you honestly believe what you type here I ask you? Are you earnest if you say you think this is a big deal? Because most people say it, but in reality, for many days not a second do they think of the fact that about 2 500 people died a violent death. Or take an interest in finding out who they were and how they died and if they are told they often forget in mere minutes.

KayleeVersus
Matters of life and death are a big deal.
No they aren't, they're insignificant, we're insignificant a speck in this vast universe. Every thing on this planet is.

KayleeVersus"So then, the issue I had with what you said and how you said it qqq, is the unaffected and almost "robot-like" disposition. Soldiers do not come back from war when one has given their life for the other...unaffected. Death has a significant effect on people BECAUSE we do not understand it. The "bio-mass" mumbo jumbo is not something people consider when they've loss a loved one. Seriously, what is that???[/quote
Unaffected is another thing than impartial and objective, I have emotions, I have plenty of them. But I try to my fullest to never at any point let my personal experiences effect my judgement and my scientific mind. The entire reason of the profoundness of lies and misinformation in this world is that people judge with their primal emotions, and not their rational mind (assuming they even have it)

And death has a significant impact of people because of evolution? Did you think that a species that did nothing to protect their own would survive? Humans are a social species, a swarm intelligence, the whole is better than the sum of its parts. Humans are perhaps the most swarm operating species in history, the depth and praecision of the communication humans employ is profound in relative sense to other species and of course for such a species it is essential that allies remain alive, because they strengthen you and enhance the chances that your genes shall live on. It's all about selfish genes.

Death has a significant effect on people BECAUSE we do not understand it.

If this, which I doubt you can back up, was any thing true. It would mean that black holes had the same effect on people, or homing pigeons, like wise things that we cannot understand.

What ever happened to empathy in the wake of a tragedy?
This is a circular reasoning, a subtle one, but you seem to imply that I must have empathy for this (as in, it is a bad thing) because it is a tragedy (as in, it is a bad thing).

What exactly lights a fire under you qqq? Really? What human being turns off their “limbic system” on cue?
You don't turn it off, you ignore it, how real it might seem. Human intuition is simply shown time and time again to be a worthless tool to investigate truth, so you have to ignore it. If you intuition, your feeling no matter how clear says A but sound logic says B then B it is. Contemporary physics is a good example of this. Humans are only accustoms to the physics around them and not what happens if things go 90% of the speed of light because they never went near that fast. And though the things that happen then seem absurd by human intuition. (Such as that if a rocket going 90% of the speed of light with respect to a planet launches a gravel with 90% of the speed of light in front, with respect to the planet it'll go with about 96% of the speed of light. But with respect to the rocket still 90%)

Because we are not accustomed to that kind of thing, from our intuition it seems like you can just add speeds because if you travel slowly, safe for an extremely small deficit you can. But that deficit grows the faster you can, and as counter intuitive as it appears. If some thing goes 290 000 000 metres per second faster than you. And another thing in front of it goes 270 000 000 metres per second faster than that thing, it shall only go about 294 000 00 metres per second faster than you I estimate. It sounds strange but this is how it works and it goes like that with a lot of things in the world, so turn your feeling and intuition off and use sound logic to go get to a conclusion. Your feeling cannot be trusted, and the truth is that humans lives are insignificant on the galactic scale, no matter how important we feel we are.

Just because 9/11 didn't happen in Los Angeles, doesn't mean I don't have the common decency to be respectful towards those who suffered the loss. 9/11 COULD have happened in my city. That could have been my brother or sister. It could have been me. It makes me grateful for MY life, yet compassionate towards those who had a loss in the wake of that tragedy. 9/11 in principle is a significant part of American history because of what happened and how it all went down and continues to go down.
Historically it's interesting. That doesn't make it any worse a happening than today when 2500 other people were killed violently throughout the world.

I'm not saying it's not a bad thing. I'm saying there are worse things that get less attention. I don't believe these things are absolute, they are relative, so more bad or less bad only exists.

An attack on US soil rarely happens - Oklahoma City, Pearl Harbor…even natural disasters like the San Francisco Quakes or Katrina…lost lives close to your country are going to have a natural effect on a person. Violent attacks by a person or persons especially would have an even greater effect. Forget the science or theories…its a loss of life that was unexpectedly snatched away.
Hail the science theory. As I said before, human intuition is an untrustworthy thing that causes killing above all else. People have more of a tendency towards irrational hatred than irrational love. Not to mention irrational breeding…

I respect your opinions, qqq - But I'm reading your responses and honestly, it reads like a alien observer from a sci-fi comic series here at DD. Its just amazing to me how desensitized society is becoming.
That I attempt to be yes, I praefer to see these things from an outsider's perspective to leave me as impartial about it as attainable. Notice that I always use ‘they’ and never ‘us’ for both sides and even for humans in general.

To remain neutral and nonattached is a thing needed for humans to look into the matter correctly.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
imshard at 11:28AM, Sept. 14, 2009
(online)
posts: 2,961
joined: 7-26-2007
I remember being asleep and getting a call from my dad saying “Go look at the TV. America is being attacked” I dragged myself out of bed and flicked on the TV and watched dumbstruck. Every channel was the same. I remember seeing a zoom in of the jumpers and wondering to myself what could possibly drive somebody inside to commit suicide like that and shuddering from the unknown horrors. I don't know how long I sat there before the second plane hit. Then the collapse came shortly after. I didn't do anything that day except stay riveted as the other reports came in. The pentagon with its gaping hole, the crater in Pennsylvania. It was a turning point down a long road of unhappiness.

I understand that there is a disparity in the human condition QQQ, but there is a matter of nations. A massive terrorist attack on a multinational civilian target causing 3000+ deaths against your own country would give pause to most people. Its the difference between being shot in your own house and hearing about gunshots somewhere else. Its more personal it directly affects you and your well-being. An old saying I know goes thus: “The selfish man and the generous man both care chiefly about the knife in his own hide sooner than his neighbors`”.
As for annual remembrances its human to grieve over a massive trauma, don't begrudge the USA for its native tragedies. If the genocides had occurred here we would certainly grieve them as well (I know I grieved when the orphanage I sponsored got burned down) but they didn't, they are not personal to us.

We already do what we can about it, we send millions in aid despite our own hardships and two very demoralizing and wasteful wars. What more can we do? Anything else and we'd REALLY be accused of meddling and imperialism.
Be careful before you blanket the American public though. Many people volunteer their time and resources to help in those situations and many more do at least give a damn and pay close attention to any news source that can bring them updates. Don't blanket the entire US with your mental images of fat trailer trash munching fast food completely oblivious to the rest of the world giving lip service where obligated. Don't be insulting. We know, we care, and we do.
Don't be a stick in the mud traditionalist! Support global warming!

Tech Support: The Comic!! Updates Somedays!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
qqq at 11:55AM, Sept. 14, 2009
(offline)
posts: 122
joined: 8-10-2009
imshard
I remember being asleep and getting a call from my dad saying “Go look at the TV. America is being attacked” I dragged myself out of bed and flicked on the TV and watched dumbstruck. Every channel was the same. I remember seeing a zoom in of the jumpers and wondering to myself what could possibly drive somebody inside to commit suicide like that and shuddering from the unknown horrors. I don't know how long I sat there before the second plane hit. Then the collapse came shortly after. I didn't do anything that day except stay riveted as the other reports came in. The pentagon with its gaping hole, the crater in Pennsylvania. It was a turning point down a long road of unhappiness.
The Pentagon case is most elusive for me, some thing is definitely not in order there. Google ‘no plane found pentagon’, apparently the case is that no one who was there ever found a plane and the first News Reports of CNN spoke of a bombing but it was later changed and those reports officially don't exist but can of course be found leaked.

imshard
I understand that there is a disparity in the human condition QQQ, but there is a matter of nations. A massive terrorist attack on a multinational civilian target causing 3000+ deaths against your own country would give pause to most people. Its the difference between being shot in your own house and hearing about gunshots somewhere else. Its more personal it directly affects you and your well-being. An old saying I know goes thus: “The selfish man and the generous man both care chiefly about the knife in his own hide sooner than his neighbors`”.
As for annual remembrances its human to grieve over a massive trauma, don't begrudge the USA for its native tragedies. If the genocides had occurred here we would certainly grieve them as well (I know I grieved when the orphanage I sponsored got burned down) but they didn't, they are not personal to us.
As far as nations go, I didn't grieve and it didn't effect me, the last two high impacted political murders here lately. I just criticized people on two things:

- One was a white animal activist, environmentalist, leftist et cetera killing a politician he felt became dangerous and extremist and spreading hatred.
- One was the same, but he was a Muslim, every news source focussed on the Muslim aspect and neglected that he was also an animal activist and a traditional environmentalist living in a cabin and living self-sustaining.

Interestingly, even the government officially lists the latter as the first terrorist attack in the Netherlands in 35 years, while the former happened 5 years or so before it and it was never called terrorism but a political murder and isn't to this day. Though of course there are various groups and of course members of the parliament that criticize this classification and speak of outright racism or at least discrminiation based on faith. It is the official stance of the Dutch government.

Another thing I criticized people of is that in both cases they talked about freedom of expression of opinion et cetera but would get so mad at you if you said it was a good thing, or even if you said it was a lesser evil but needed because they were extremists who spread false words. (The latter continually saying that Muslims do nothing but fuck goats)


same with train crashes, plane wrecks, because it's close to home doesn't affect me more emotionally. It would only start to affect me more if I directly notice some thing from it, but that wouldn't affect my judgement about it that it's insignificant. I'm not the Queen Bitch of the universe, just because I have to cope with the grief of some thing doesn't make it any thing ‘significant’.

In fact, I get the feeling most people reason in reverse on this, as in:

'Oh, I find it significant when it's close to me, thus, for proper form, I say that it's significant if it's far away and some one whom I never knew.' many say it, but I really doubt they feel it.


We already do what we can about it, we send millions in aid despite our own hardships and two very demoralizing and wasteful wars. What more can we do? Anything else and we'd REALLY be accused of meddling and imperialism.
Be careful before you blanket the American public though. Many people volunteer their time and resources to help in those situations and many more do at least give a damn and pay close attention to any news source that can bring them updates. Don't blanket the entire US with your mental images of fat trailer trash munching fast food completely oblivious to the rest of the world giving lip service where obligated. Don't be insulting. We know, we care, and we do.
Like no development aid for countries that allow for abortion?

I don't think a single rich country in the world truly cares, including my own. I don't care, and neither does my neighbour or that guy across the north sea in England. It's the same old story, the French nobles, the Russian elite, the Roman free citizens, if you look back you say they were evil for not giving up their vast wealth to help the commoners or to free the slaves.

But in reality, we do the same today, we're not willing to give up our lives of luxury for people that could feed a family for a month by their standards with the money we eat a day on. The point about vast luxury is that if you have it, you start to see it as normal and it's hard to give up.

But one day a revolution always comes, the developing countries will rebel and in some way, overthrow us, it's a simple cycle.

1: aequality.
2: A difference in wealth
3: Difference increases
4: Increase to a point that the poor so much outmany the rich that even with the rich's material abilities, the poor are stronger.
5: Revolution
1*

last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
imshard at 2:31PM, Sept. 14, 2009
(online)
posts: 2,961
joined: 7-26-2007
qqq
The Pentagon case is most elusive for me, some thing is definitely not in order there. Google ‘no plane found pentagon’, apparently the case is that no one who was there ever found a plane and the first News Reports of CNN spoke of a bombing but it was later changed and those reports officially don't exist but can of course be found leaked.

… Seriously? You're bringing up that drivel? Even if it were true who cares? The fourth plane went missing and the Pentagon suffered a rather large hole in its heavily reinforced structure by unknown means. End result is the same: People died tragically and a terrorist organization claimed credit.

QQQ I don't know how to get this across to you. If somebody dropped poison in Amsterdam's water supply or blew up a string of hotels in Rotterdam would you feel nothing? No concern, panic, anger, fear, sadness? I think you would, hell, I would.

Certainly people reside at both ends of the spectrum, with most people falling in between. I care and just because you don't, it doesn't mean nobody else does either. Many philanthropists live in luxury others give it all away, but in the end can you say nobody gave?

As for significance: particularly large death tolls at high-profile targets are pretty significant. 9-11 propelled America into a long and costly conflict it didn't need. It had a unique set of circumstances and consequences that set it apart. Do I personally grieve for people I don't know as I would a family member or a loved one? No I don't mourn them because that's a personal significance. I pay respect and understand the pain, especially since it was a collective experience shared the whole world over as people everywhere watched it in real time.
This thread and others like it are about about that shared experience, and the horrors of it. I envy your detachment QQQ, it must save you a lot of pain. In the mean time I prefer to hold on to my humanity and try to help my fellow man wherever I can.
Don't be a stick in the mud traditionalist! Support global warming!

Tech Support: The Comic!! Updates Somedays!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
kyupol at 4:59PM, Sept. 14, 2009
(online)
posts: 3,712
joined: 1-12-2006
WTC building 7 collapsed and no plane hit it.

Believe your eyes or believe what you're told?


Also, BBC reported on it even before it collapsed.


The hole in the pentagon doesn't look like a plane.


Meanwhile…

- drills were happening simultaneously as the “terror attacks” happened. What a coincidence. Maybe its also a coincidence in the 7-7 attacks.

- bin laden family was allowed to leave after 9-11.

- George W. Was too busy reading about his pet goat (Baphomet?)

It doesn't matter if you're an atheist who doesn't believe in demons. Lets say demons don't exist. Point is that one's beliefs affect their actions. We have a bunch of devil worshipping nutjobs in control.


Wake up, people. 9-11 is an excuse to take away your freedom.
http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=lossofcivilliberties

Or maybe you are more likely to believe the BIG LIE.

Adolf Hitler was right all along…


"since the great masses of the people in the very bottom of their hearts tend to be corrupted rather than consciously and purposely evil, and that, therefore, in view of the primitive simplicity of their minds they more easily fall a victim to a big lie than to a little one, since they themselves lie in little things, but would be ashamed of lies that were too big" - Adolf Hitler -

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
qqq at 6:02PM, Sept. 14, 2009
(offline)
posts: 122
joined: 8-10-2009
imshard
qqq
The Pentagon case is most elusive for me, some thing is definitely not in order there. Google ‘no plane found pentagon’, apparently the case is that no one who was there ever found a plane and the first News Reports of CNN spoke of a bombing but it was later changed and those reports officially don't exist but can of course be found leaked.

… Seriously? You're bringing up that drivel? Even if it were true who cares? The fourth plane went missing and the Pentagon suffered a rather large hole in its heavily reinforced structure by unknown means. End result is the same: People died tragically and a terrorist organization claimed credit.

One: Look for yourself, there was never a plane found.

Two: The first report was that no plane went missing, only later on. Also, various sources claim that the plane that went missing apparently never existed before the attacks, and was later retrocactively added to the list. And some sources say that essentially no people claimed they had survivors from the pentagon crash versus people that claimed they had them from planes.

Thirdly? A terrorist organization claimed credit? As far as I'm aware to this day there is no proof of Al-Qa'ida's complicity in it. All there is is some recording of some guy supposed to be Osama Bin Laden that clearly looks nothing like it, a random dude with a beard and a turban on that writes with his right in that vid. But he's left handed. Also, read this:

Taken from http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/14/ret.afghanistan.attacks/

——– Amid the strikes on Sunday, a Taliban official offered to hand bin Laden over to a third country for trial – or try him within Afghanistan – if the U.S. provided evidence of bin Laden's involvement in the terror attacks on the United States and the raids stopped.

The White House quickly rejected the offer, and President Bush said the U.S. position was “non-negotiable.”



The most annoying fact of it all is that so far the US has shown no real proof of Bin Laden's involvement in the attacks. Sure there's been talk all over the media about how Bin Laden is suspected of being a part of the attacks, but the FBI/CIA/NSA haven't really said anything special about their “ongoing investigation”. For all we know, the Bin Laden folder at FBI headquarters could be empty and the guy could be completely innocent. But we can't really tell since it's all classified can we?


source: http://www.usamemorial.org/sept11069.asp , a discussion between various people on the subject, provides for all perspectives, interesting read. A lot of conflicting evidence in this.

QQQ I don't know how to get this across to you. If somebody dropped poison in Amsterdam's water supply or blew up a string of hotels in Rotterdam would you feel nothing? No concern, panic, anger, fear, sadness? I think you would, hell, I would.
I think I won't and I think I'm still the authority on my own feelings. In fact, I'd feel saver, if I just survived, that means I'm less likely to die since terrorist attacks statistically are the least likely to occur if they just occurred closeby (no shit). I feel no ‘relation’ to people simply because we have the same native language or live in the same sovereign state.

Certainly people reside at both ends of the spectrum, with most people falling in between. I care and just because you don't, it doesn't mean nobody else does either. Many philanthropists live in luxury others give it all away, but in the end can you say nobody gave?
I know I did, that's at least one, quite handsomely I believe, 30% of my yearly income, that's a lot for this country. Also, I take the time to thoroughly research which charities are the best and their processes of operation and don't just give to the first in sight just to easy my guilt.

As for significance: particularly large death tolls at high-profile targets are pretty significant. 9-11 propelled America into a long and costly conflict it didn't need. It had a unique set of circumstances and consequences that set it apart. Do I personally grieve for people I don't know as I would a family member or a loved one? No I don't mourn them because that's a personal significance. I pay respect and understand the pain, especially since it was a collective experience shared the whole world over as people everywhere watched it in real time.
This thread and others like it are about about that shared experience, and the horrors of it. I envy your detachment QQQ, it must save you a lot of pain. In the mean time I prefer to hold on to my humanity and try to help my fellow man wherever I can.
I help too, I just don't get emotionally irrational, there's a difference between having no emotions and not letting them affect your judgement as I said before.

There's a difference between anger and aggression you know.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
BffSatan at 12:21AM, Sept. 15, 2009
(online)
posts: 1,478
joined: 3-2-2008
kyupol
Adolf Hitler was right all along…
So, you're saying the nazis did it…


I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say something a little crazy, maybe, just maybe, a bunch of terrorists did it who were pissed off at America because of the western world's past and mostly negative involvement in the middle east.

Also, I called this, you're becoming too predictable.
Me
Also, InB4Kyupol'sConspiracyTheory
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:21AM
ozoneocean at 1:03AM, Sept. 15, 2009
(online)
posts: 24,938
joined: 1-2-2006
What the F…?

Sorry, I don't care about crazy theories, that's not why I made this thread.
Whether or not your alternative version of accepted reality as we know it happened the way you think it did Kyupol, QQQ or whatever, the buildings fell and lots of people died and it was a world event that has continuing repercussions.

YES GWB jnr and Co used it as an excuse for two wars, but anyone with a brain knew he was gong after Iraq as soon as he was elected. It was only a matter of time.

So that's not important.
What's important where the wars are concerned is how they took away from the events and what happened to those people who died during them.
And with the events themselves - YOUR reaction.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved