Debate and Discussion

Alberto Gonzales Resigns
ccs1989 at 5:27AM, Aug. 27, 2007
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http://www.nytimes.com/?emc=na

Wow…first Karl Rove and now Gonzales. Interesting.

Personally I'm really surprised about this. This probably has something to do with the impeachment investigation bill brought forth on July 30th. It's also not incredibly surprising, because nearly as many Republicans as Democrats have asked for his resignation. I for one am happy to see him go.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:39AM
warren at 7:17AM, Aug. 27, 2007
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Someone with that many “holes in his memory” is unfit for any office. It absolutely disgusts me when any pol uses that excuse dozens of times when subpoenaed.

I'll bet tossing him into jail would jog his memory.

Oh well, next time.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 4:48PM
bobhhh at 7:24AM, Aug. 27, 2007
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It's about time. That guy never should have been in office in the first place.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
mapaghimagsik at 8:43AM, Aug. 27, 2007
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Note the convenient timing. The next appointment will be a recess appointment.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Vindibudd at 10:22AM, Aug. 27, 2007
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ccs1989
This probably has something to do with the impeachment investigation bill brought forth on July 30th.

hahahahaha. There is more a chance of Putin being on the cover of Nickelodeon Magazine than Bush getting impeached. Gonzales resigned because Gonzales is and always has been a moron.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
bobhhh at 2:21PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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Bush will never be impeached. Impeachment was a worthless excercize when the republicans tried to screw Clinton, and its even worse now. Bush is on the ropes politically already. He is going into bunker mentality. Every breath he takes makes him look more foul and helps the election chances of a progressive candidate, if we have the guts to nominate one.

Gonzalez was a twerp. He was a yes man for Rove and Bush. I'm glad he's gone mainly because I like to see bad people humiliated, it may give some other nozzle pause before he writes something like the torture paper. Its time to give the confirmation process more teeth so we never again rubber stamp brainless henchman into such important jobs as Attourney General.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
mapaghimagsik at 2:24PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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Now now. I'm sure according to Vindi, impeachment of Clinton was a deeply honorable endeavour… :D
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
bobhhh at 2:27PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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mapaghimagsik
Now now. I'm sure according to Vindi, impeachment of Clinton was a deeply honorable endeavour… :D

Hey I thought I was being nice and pointing out that me and VB could agree on something!! :P
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
mapaghimagsik at 2:28PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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Sorry, didn't mean to harsh the moment.

Am I a bad person for thinking you typed ‘VD’?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
bobhhh at 2:31PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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mapaghimagsik
Sorry, didn't mean to harsh the moment.

Am I a bad person for thinking you typed ‘VD’?

No I think you're just swell :}
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Vindibudd at 3:09PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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mapaghimagsik
Now now. I'm sure according to Vindi, impeachment of Clinton was a deeply honorable endeavour… :D

Deeply honorable? If you want to step outside the thread we can have it out about this if you like.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
mapaghimagsik at 3:11PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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No thanks. Momma talked to me about boys like you.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
mapaghimagsik at 3:16PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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huh!?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Vindibudd at 3:34PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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mapaghimagsik
No thanks. Momma talked to me about boys like you.

uuuuhkay.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
Ronson at 8:24PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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Many pundits have said that Alberto had to go, but that Rove would have to leave first to make it seem like they weren't both running away from the attorney scandal and so Rove could slide back into the Republican main stream.

I don't know if there's anything to that, but it is something I read BEFORE Rove left, and it said there would be about 2 weeks between that an Gonzoles leaving. It could have been just a lucky guess that fit a convenient theory.

We will now see all of the Republicans bashing Gonzalez for either being incompetent or corrupt, though they defended his actions and his words up until this point. One of the great things about being a Republican is the ability to wipe one's past statements away and start fresh. You will even see some Republicans assert that Gonzales was the one who led Bush astray, or that he made all the decisions without involving Bush(totally uncorroborated assertions, of course).

I wonder about the Monday Morning release. Either they were trying to be as far away from Sunday talking head shows as possible, or there's something coming up that'll distract people again…or this is the distraction. I guess we'll find out.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Vindibudd at 8:53PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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Ronson
We will now see all of the Republicans bashing Gonzalez for either being incompetent or corrupt, though they defended his actions and his words up until this point.

I think Gonzalez is a very intelligent person in everything but politics. In the case of politics, he isn't too sharp. I would put up his credentials against any one of his critics any day. You don't graduate from Harvard with a JD being stupid.

Ronson
One of the great things about being a Republican is the ability to wipe one's past statements away and start fresh.

Yeah like, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.” or “I voted for the war before I voted against it.” It must be great to be a Republican.

Ronson
You will even see some Republicans assert that Gonzales was the one who led Bush astray, or that he made all the decisions without involving Bush(totally uncorroborated assertions, of course).

I really don't know what you are talking about here.

Ronson
I wonder about the Monday Morning release. Either they were trying to be as far away from Sunday talking head shows as possible, or there's something coming up that'll distract people again…or this is the distraction. I guess we'll find out.

See, here you go, someone leaves, well it MUST be a distraction from what is REALLY going on. Come on man. Maybe he just got fed up with idiots like Schumer constantly whining and slandering him. He doesn't need this garbage day in and day out.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
warren at 9:10PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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Ronson
One of the great things about being a Republican is the ability to wipe one's past statements away and start fresh.
“I apologized a thousand times … and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened.” -Robert Byrd, on being in the KKK. A Democrat, by the way.
Warren

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last edited on July 14, 2011 4:48PM
mapaghimagsik at 9:42PM, Aug. 27, 2007
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warren
Ronson
One of the great things about being a Republican is the ability to wipe one's past statements away and start fresh.
“I apologized a thousand times … and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened.” -Robert Byrd, on being in the KKK. A Democrat, by the way.

I think there's this problem that if you want a politician – or a wife, or a husband, or a friend or anyone who hasn't made mistakes, you're going to spend a long time looking. Racism has long been an institution in this country and waxes and wanes. I'd like to say it gets better, but I'm not Mexican, so I can't say.



The great thing is that the internet helps in managing that institutional memory, and there's an opportunity to make these politicians make good on their mistakes.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Ronson at 4:59AM, Aug. 28, 2007
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warren
Ronson
One of the great things about being a Republican is the ability to wipe one's past statements away and start fresh.
“I apologized a thousand times … and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened.” -Robert Byrd, on being in the KKK. A Democrat, by the way.

Yeah, but that ISN'T claiming never to have said something or claiming to never have done anything. That's apologizing and moving on. I certainly wouldn't vote for Byrd, but you can't say he denies his past.

Like this sort of thing:
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Ronson at 5:13AM, Aug. 28, 2007
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Vindibudd
I think Gonzalez is a very intelligent person in everything but politics. In the case of politics, he isn't too sharp. I would put up his credentials against any one of his critics any day. You don't graduate from Harvard with a JD being stupid.

Well, I don't think you have a very impartial view of his critics. But I do agree that he isn't stupid. That's why I think he knows he's committed crimes against the country and is purposely making himself look incompetent.

Vindibudd
Yeah like, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.” or “I voted for the war before I voted against it.” It must be great to be a Republican.

Yeah, that's pretty much my point. Clinton has acknowledged the act, and the lie he told. Not enough in my opinion, but he doesn't deny that the event in the Oval Office occured, nor does he claim that he didn't say the words you quote.

As for the Kerry quote, it makes perfect sense in context, but some people don't understand what context means.

And this is beside the point. Again, I am guilty of being too general. I'm talking about the Republican pundits and bloggers. They will creep out of the woodwork and start claiming to never having liked Gonzales regardless of anything they had said or written previously. And it's also this administration in particular. Almost every one of them is guilty of saying something and then denying they were saying it. Or they insinuate things and then use clever wordplay to give them room to deny things.

Vindibudd
Ronson
You will even see some Republicans assert that Gonzales was the one who led Bush astray, or that he made all the decisions without involving Bush(totally uncorroborated assertions, of course).

I really don't know what you are talking about here.

It's a prediction based on the investigations continuing and proving the corruption any fool can see was there.

Vindibudd
Ronson
I wonder about the Monday Morning release. Either they were trying to be as far away from Sunday talking head shows as possible, or there's something coming up that'll distract people again…or this is the distraction. I guess we'll find out.

See, here you go, someone leaves, well it MUST be a distraction from what is REALLY going on. Come on man.

You didn't read what I wrote. I said that it was released on Monday for one of three reasons…1. To be far from the Sunday talking head shows. 2. To distract. 3. To disappear in favor of a bigger story that's coming up. I certainly didn't say that I knew it was a distraction.

I think it's probably the first, though with Labor Day coming it isn't like there'll be a huge viewing audience for Sunday. It's just interesting, is all.

Vindibudd
Maybe he just got fed up with idiots like Schumer constantly whining and slandering him. He doesn't need this garbage day in and day out.

You don't know he's been slandered. You think he has, based on nothing. There are republican attorneys that believe they were fired for prosecuting and investigating republicans, which could mean that the Bush Administration was obstructing justice. That is not something they are allowed to do, and if it's true they've done a disservice to this country.

It needs to be investigated. The fact that this administration had done nothing but stonewall and deny information just makes it a long drawn out battle. If they are not guilty of anything then it should be a simple matter to provide the evidence and testimony to prove so.

Besides which, it's a matter of public record that Alberto advised Bush to torture people and deny them Geneva Convention rights. We can have that discussion if you need to, but that's about as ethically bankrupt as you can get without actually BEING a terrorist.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
bobhhh at 6:01AM, Aug. 28, 2007
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What he said.

:P
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
ccs1989 at 5:38PM, Aug. 28, 2007
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Vindibudd
ccs1989
This probably has something to do with the impeachment investigation bill brought forth on July 30th.

hahahahaha. There is more a chance of Putin being on the cover of Nickelodeon Magazine than Bush getting impeached. Gonzales resigned because Gonzales is and always has been a moron.

It wasn't an impeachment bill against Bush. It was an impeachment bill against Gonzales. Anyway I'm glad you agree with me on the “He's a moron” front.
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“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:39AM
bobhhh at 5:22AM, Sept. 4, 2007
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ccs1989
It wasn't an impeachment bill against Bush. It was an impeachment bill against Gonzales. Anyway I'm glad you agree with me on the “He's a moron” front.

Be careful about the moron idea. Morons don't become attourney general. Don't confuse an unrepentant hatchetman with no scruples as a moron. He was devious and coldly calculating. He even orchestrated a mafia style visit to Ashcroft's hospital room, “Listen Johnny, either your signature or your brains on the paper…”(jes kiddin folks)

Hell, even Bush is a clever, savvy politician. It's not easy snagging the presidency, you know. Of course that's no to say he wasn't so unwise that he used his skill to truly fuck things up, but calling him and others morons is a bit like lowering your guard.

Never underestimate your opponent.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
SpANG at 5:32AM, Sept. 4, 2007
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Of course, like infants that are attracted to shiny things, the media's entire focus of Gonzales and his upcoming indictments has shifted to an old Senator tapping some cop's foot in the men's room.

It is, of course, a distraction. I'm sure it will work too. The conservatives once again sacrifice one of their own.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
TnTComic at 5:36AM, Sept. 4, 2007
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Sacrifice one of thei….. WHAT?

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
TitanOne at 11:40AM, Sept. 4, 2007
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Vindibudd
ccs1989
This probably has something to do with the impeachment investigation bill brought forth on July 30th.

hahahahaha. There is more a chance of Putin being on the cover of Nickelodeon Magazine than Bush getting impeached.

Wow, Vindibudd said something I agree with for once!

Nancy Pelosi quashed any possibility that there would be an Impeachment shortly after last year's election. We don't know why, but she's blocking it like a Hockey goalie.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
Ronson at 5:38PM, Sept. 4, 2007
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TitanOne
Vindibudd
ccs1989
This probably has something to do with the impeachment investigation bill brought forth on July 30th.

hahahahaha. There is more a chance of Putin being on the cover of Nickelodeon Magazine than Bush getting impeached.

Wow, Vindibudd said something I agree with for once!

Nancy Pelosi quashed any possibility that there would be an Impeachment shortly after last year's election. We don't know why, but she's blocking it like a Hockey goalie.

The popular story is that Pelosi is blocking it because if Bush and Cheney were impeached (and it would be likely if one was the other would be because they were both involved in many of the same things) then, Pelosi would be next in line and with a Democratic senate and house it would look like the fix was in.

The real reason is because I think they don't want to do it. Right now, the Dems got Nixon and the Repubs got Clinton. If they upset the applecart, the belief is that the next democratic candidate will be up for impeachement as soon as the republicans can regroup.

What Pelosi and those who believe this little fairy story forget is that the republicans will do it anyway. Right now, the republicans are using a “scorched Earth” attack on our government. They won't allow anything to pass without threatening a fillibuster. The threat alone is prevent countless votes on the senate floor.

What in the world makes anyone think that the republicans won't attack the next Democratic president? It will become the battle plan, and it'll work! And it'll be just as costly and just as ultimately ridiculous as the Clinton impeachment.*

____

* REITERATION: When Clinton's lie was exposed, I would have liked for him to resign for the sake of the government. The fact that he didn't disgusts me. But so does the entire investigation.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
TitanOne at 6:28PM, Sept. 4, 2007
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Ronson
TitanOne
Nancy Pelosi quashed any possibility that there would be an Impeachment shortly after last year's election. We don't know why, but she's blocking it like a Hockey goalie.

The popular story is that Pelosi is blocking it because if Bush and Cheney were impeached (and it would be likely if one was the other would be because they were both involved in many of the same things) then, Pelosi would be next in line and with a Democratic senate and house it would look like the fix was in.

The real reason is because I think they don't want to do it. Right now, the Dems got Nixon and the Repubs got Clinton. If they upset the applecart, the belief is that the next democratic candidate will be up for impeachement as soon as the republicans can regroup.

What Pelosi and those who believe this little fairy story forget is that the republicans will do it anyway.

I think you're right. They'll do it again.

I believe there may be a far less altruistic reason for why Pelosi and Conyers are so disinterested in Impeachment–payola, anyone?–but the Modus Operandi of the post-Limbaugh era GOP is playing politics on the most ruthless conceivable terms, while simultaneously courting public opinion on the lowest common denominator level. And they are very good at turning tables–that was obvious when Bush, the hero of the Texas Air National Guard, ran against Vietnam vet John Kerry. Somehow, by the time November 2004 rolled around, Kerry was a cowardly traitor for having being wounded and given three Purple Hearts.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
bobhhh at 6:37AM, Sept. 5, 2007
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I think the main reason Pelosi isn't persuing impeachment is that it would essentially be worthless. It would never go through the senate without a super majority, and besides Bush is doing a good job of making himself a lamer and lamer duck. By taking the high road, she can focus on her agenda with a new and united democratic majority in congress.

Remember Gingrich was gone not long after Clinton's impeachment, while Clinton's numbers went up.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
mapaghimagsik at 6:39AM, Sept. 5, 2007
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No but Larry Craig is baaaaack!

So pass the popcorn.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM

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