Debate and Discussion

Amazonrank Fail
megan_rose at 4:55PM, April 12, 2009
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http://markprobst.livejournal.com/15293.html

The above link explains it all, but for the purposes of tl;dr, Amazon.com has removed sales rankings from any books with LGBTQ content, saying they are too “adult”, and that they don't include books with adult content in their sales rankings. Things like the children's book “Heather Has Two Mommies” has been deemed too “adult”.

Amazon uses their rankings to determine what order things come up when you do a search. Not even having a number means you don't come up in the search at all. You also can't become a bestseller, because you can't be #1 if you don't even get a number.

I know pretty much everyone on this site has their heads outside of their asses, so I thought I'd bring this to your attention. We're calling for a boycott of Amazon until they reverse this policy.

Tell people about this. This is deplorable and blatant discrimination.

There is a petition going around, too.

I guess since this is “debate and discussion” and not “tell everyone you know to boycott a disgusting company”, what do you think of the whole debacle?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:59PM
Chernobog at 5:53PM, April 12, 2009
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It's either hypocritical or people have been smart enough to outwit Amazon somehow… I've seen plenty of inadvertent results for adult oriented book titles surfing through Amazon before. I won't pretend I understand one hundred percent of the situation but I'm not a fan of arbitrary censorship.
 
 
“You tell yourself to just
enjoy the process,” he added. “That whether you succeed or fail, win or
lose, it will be fine. You pretend to be Zen. You adopt detachment, and
ironic humor, while secretly praying for a miracle.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:41AM
Aurora Moon at 12:37AM, April 13, 2009
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I think it's pretty fucking stupid.

When will the homosexual hate ever end??

I mean, honestly…there's been like a million studies out now that states all the following:
(http://www.jeramyt.org/gay/gayhealth.html)

1) Homosexual people are not pedophiles or perverts for the most part. just like how Heterosexual people are not usually pedophiles or perverts. It just happens that pedophiles and other deviant perverts CAN be homosexual or heterosexual, but they do not reflect the whole heterosexual or homosexual groups.

2) Homosexual people can and are parents of children just like heterosexual people… and those children are usually their biological children too… proof that homosexual people can reproduce like heterosexuals (well, more or less). So that whole procreation argument is out.

3) studies also show that the children of gay parents grow up to be normal, just like the children of straight parents. The only difference is that they tend to have more empathy for others, as well as less rigid viewpoints on gender roles in society. so how is this a bad thing?

4)the whole “homosexuals are promiscuous” thing is an total myth, according to recent studies. in fact the studies actually showed that heterosexuals were MORE promiscuous!
study said:
In a study of sexual behavior in homosexuals and heterosexuals, the researchers found that of gay and bisexual men, 24% had one male partner in their lifetime, 45% had 2-4 male partners, 13% had 5-9 male partners, and 18% had 10 or more sexual partners, which produces a mean of less than 6 partners. (The statistics I did by myself using the data presented, which is presented as a percentage of total males interviewed, both gay and straight (p. 345)–they can be verified yourself by looking at the numbers given in the paper)(Fay; n=97 gay males of 1450 males total). In a parallel study, a random sample of primarily straight men (n=3111 males who had had vaginal intercourse; of the total sample of n=3224 males, only 2.3% had indicated having had sex with both men and women), the mean number of sexual partners was 7.3, with 28.2% having 1-3 partners, and 23.3% having greater than 19 partners (Billy). This data indicates that gay men may have fewer number of sexual partners than heterosexuals.

J Billy-1993: Family Planning Perspectives 25:52-60
R Fay-1989, Science 243:338-348

In another set of studies, the first (n=2664) showed that gay men had an average of 6.5 sexual partners in the past 5 years. In fact, the authors of this paper report that “homosexual and bisexual men are much more likely than heterosexual men to be celibate” given the data in the table below, which compares their data to a second, parallel study of only heterosexual men (n=1235, age=18-49 yrs). The table indicates the percentage of men having the given number of sexual partners in the previous year :

5) “But, but… they have aids, they invented aids!”
Um, no. It was monkeys in Africa that passed on the disease to humans, and it was actually an man who came back from Africa, who had casual sex mainly with women who first spread this in America.. and then the bisexual men who had sex with the infected women who passed this on to Gay men. And since this was during the 60's, the era of free love, casual sex… of course EVERYONE was going at it like mad, even the gays. The first cases that came to light before they traced it back to that man were gay men… and that's where the Stigma came from.
Now, it's true that unsafe anal sex does increase the chance of aids infection… what with all the tearing and stuff back there thanks to lack of natural lubrication. This is why some gay men in America are prone to catching aids if they practice unsafe anal sex. However with condoms and the proper amount of lubrication, they can prevent that.
and study shows that in the overall world it is heterosexuals that are mostly infected with this disease, not gays.
Lesbians are usually not infected or affected by this disease as much.

6)“Well, it's AGAINST my religion! my god says gays are evil and sinners!!”
So? still doesn't give you the right to discriminate against gays and force your belief down their throats! Besides, are you really aware that in the original bibles of the world, they weren't really against homosexuality? that's actually an MISTRANSLATION!
Besides, if God hated gays so much, why would he had allowed for SO many gays to be born into the world today? Oh sure, you could blame THAT on the devil, but if God was seriously against that then why wouldn't he just want to start over again then? like he did with the Noah's ark and all that…that is, if he actually exists at all!
And even if you're right… the bible also says that to be good Christians you must be tolerant of others, love thy neighbors and all that…. and by acting that intolerant you're not a very devout follower, are you?

Just my thoughts on why there's completely NO reasons to hate on gays like this.
It's like hating one apple but loving another apple even though they're basically the same type. “I hate this golden delicious apple! But I love this OTHER golden delicious apple because THIS ONE is much more socially acceptable!”
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Skullbie at 12:45AM, April 13, 2009
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And the thing is, they aren't really excluding adult content. There's plenty of non-gay books that deal with distasteful representations of violence and incest along with the obvious hetero adult content still up there. Their policy is dishonest censorship that's taking down hundreds of gay friendly books and leaving the ones that are plainly anti-gay and homophobic up. (really ‘a parents guide to preventing homosexuality’ is the first result for searching homosexuality.)

It's more irritating that they're trying to pass this off as a ‘glitch’ now that they're in hot water about it. Yes, a very clever conservative glitch.

On another note are sextoys even being de-ranked?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:47PM
Kristen Gudsnuk at 3:06AM, April 13, 2009
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Aurora Moon
Homosexual people are not pedophiles or perverts for the most part. just like how Heterosexual people are not usually pedophiles or perverts.

anyone who says they're not a pervert is a liar ; )

I agree that this is idiotic and disappointing. I signed the petition and wrote Amazon a little note saying not to expect my (admittedly sporadic) business anymore.

Gees, hate is so passe.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:22PM
Jonko at 7:36AM, April 13, 2009
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Shoot, and I just ordered a bunch of textbooks for work off them. Hopefully Amazon Japan has nothing to do with this…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:10PM
Aurora Moon at 7:40AM, April 13, 2009
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Kristen Gudsnuk
Aurora Moon
Homosexual people are not pedophiles or perverts for the most part. just like how Heterosexual people are not usually pedophiles or perverts.

anyone who says they're not a pervert is a liar ; )


lol, when I said perverts.. I was referring to those people who had fetishes like bondage, sadomasochist stuff, and things like that. anything that the most prudish, straight vanilla person might deem “weird”, “unusual”, etc.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Hawk at 8:11AM, April 13, 2009
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Skullbie
It's more irritating that they're trying to pass this off as a ‘glitch’ now that they're in hot water about it. Yes, a very clever conservative glitch.

Are you saying that they're actually fixing the issue?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
BffSatan at 8:16AM, April 13, 2009
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Aurora Moon
5) “But, but… they have aids, they invented aids!”
Um, no. It was monkeys in Africa that passed on the disease to humans

That's not true, it was spread from chimpanzees to humans from blood contact with the chimp and the hunter, it's practically impossible to get it from interspecies sex. The myth just comes from racial intolerence from when everyone thought black people were barbaric and therefore had sex with monkeys. Also AIDS spread to gay men because anal sex is a better transmitter of the disease.


Back on topic. I think Amazon has a right to control their own product listing, however I don't approve of the way the control it at all. It's homophobic and stupid, but they pay for it by loosing customers and pissing a people of, that's never good for buisness.

I'm not suprised that a computer glitch is being blamed, computers are the new scape goat for everything. The sad thing is people have no idea how computers actually work so they'd happily believe that this could actually happen.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
megan_rose at 8:16AM, April 13, 2009
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It sounds like they're fixing it, due to all the backlash, which is good. But their reasoning behind why it happened in the first place is complete bunk.
A “computer glitch” caused all this to happen? That is a complete lie, and here's why.

1.) Glitches do not send out emails explaining a policy change.
2.) If there were a glitch, all books that were affected by the glitch would be de-ranked at the same time. As things were de-ranked one-by-one over a period of months, it shows signs of humans de-ranking things by hand.
3.) (and this is the big one) If it were a glitch, and everything with keywords like “homosexuality” and “gay” were de-ranked, why was it only the pro-gay ones? Books like “A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality” kept its rank. No anti-gay books were affected by this. Only books that showed homosexuality in a positive light.

This is some serious PR-fail. Seriously, Amazon, how hard is it to come up with a better excuse than “computer glitch”?
“We had a few employees who took it upon themselves to change certain books' rankings. They have been fired and we are reversing the damage.”
I just came up with that now. I don't have any PR experience. But that is more believable than “computer glitch”.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:59PM
BffSatan at 8:22AM, April 13, 2009
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It's not such bad PR, it's unethical but it will work. Most people think a computer glitch could do all that, most of them will happily accept that a computer can perform tasks that would require complex thinking. Obviously it wasn't a computer glitch, but if it was a person to blame they'd get mad.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
Orin J Master at 8:48AM, April 13, 2009
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i suppose i'd call a computer system that is influenced by the beliefs of a religous conserevative group as having a ‘glitch’.

but it's more an attempt at avoinding getting a big “hate” sticker pasted on them, in the hopes that their bottom line won't be affected.

this kind of thing is likely to go on forever, since one side does it not out of any rational reason, but a cultural aversion that they perpetuate for the sake of their “personal beliefs”
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
Aurora Moon at 11:01AM, April 13, 2009
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BffSatan
Aurora Moon
5) “But, but… they have aids, they invented aids!”
Um, no. It was monkeys in Africa that passed on the disease to humans

That's not true, it was spread from chimpanzees to humans from blood contact with the chimp and the hunter, it's practically impossible to get it from interspecies sex. The myth just comes from racial intolerence from when everyone thought black people were barbaric and therefore had sex with monkeys. Also AIDS spread to gay men because anal sex is a better transmitter of the disease.

where did I say that the monkeys/chimps had sexual contact with the humans? you will notice if you reread that I didn't say anything about sex when it came to the monkeys! O_o

After all, I naturally assumed that everyone here knew that Aids wasn't just an sexual disease… it could be passed on though other means of bodily contact.. such as somebody Else's fluids (spit,blood,etc) getting in contact with your open wounds, sharing needles, etc.. really, anything that allows for any fair amount of fluids from another person to enter your body can cause it. Even getting bitten by an monkey. Gee, I guess I should had been more spefic about that! otherwise people are going to say “Nah you're wrong!! Africans didn't have sex with monkeys!” thinking that I had my head in the gutter like that! >=P

also, you would do well to notice that I also pointed out that unsafe anal sex where there wasn't enough lubrication or condoms also helped become an good way to pass on the disease, since how the walls of the anal passage is like an soft sponge; it absorbs anything into your body way more easily. usually a very good thing because it does serve it own purposes. But in the case of any disease like aids… it can become a bad thing indeed.

However gays who uses condoms and does their best to practice safe sex has the same chance as any heterosexual person who practices the same safe sex methods…that is, their chances of contacting the disease is very little then. hell, there's been gay people who were around in the 60's when it became an big issue, and to this day in their old age they STILL hadn't caught that disease because they practiced safe sex.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
BffSatan at 11:34AM, April 13, 2009
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Sorry, I must have misread that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
Dangerous_cynic at 11:50AM, April 13, 2009
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Aurora Moon
Kristen Gudsnuk
Aurora Moon
Homosexual people are not pedophiles or perverts for the most part. just like how Heterosexual people are not usually pedophiles or perverts.

anyone who says they're not a pervert is a liar ; )


lol, when I said perverts.. I was referring to those people who had fetishes like bondage, sadomasochist stuff, and things like that. anything that the most prudish, straight vanilla person might deem “weird”, “unusual”, etc.

To be fair, some homosexuals are that kind of pervert, and more power to them, BDSM homosexuals are my favourite kind!

On a more on topic note. I am so glad they are sorting this out, apart from anything else it sends the wrong message when big companies get away with this kind of crap. The fact that they have had to say it was a mistake, whether this is truth or spin, sends out a strong message about this kind of censorship not being ok.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:05PM
Kristen Gudsnuk at 9:20PM, April 14, 2009
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Dangerous_cynic
To be fair, some homosexuals are that kind of pervert, and more power to them, BDSM homosexuals are my favourite kind!

rock on!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:22PM

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