Debate and Discussion

Another Rant (pretty long one too)
Priceman at 5:43PM, Dec. 22, 2006
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These are just a few things that piss me off to no end. If you agree or disagree, let me know. It'd be nice to know weather i'm right, or if i seriously need to stop drinking.

(Attention: if you have better things to do, or don't wanna hear my girly man rant/whine please spare yourself now.)

1.) Political Correctness . Political Correctness is completely getting out of hand. America has gone from the most arrogant, uppity, “oh you don't like it, then whatcha gonna do about it” country in the world to a place where it now almost illegal to hurt someone's feelings. As someone born in the early 80's, it completely pisses me off to see things like this. The change in just 20 short years is outrageous. It won't be long until the nation becomes like that movie “Demolition Man” where you get fined everytime you curse, or like “Escape from L.A.” where they simple ship the people who don't follow the rules to a island somewhere. At the rate things are going the declaration of independence is gonna say “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness……as long as you don't hurt anyone's feelings.”



2). Schools . When i went to school, from Pre-K till about the 10th grade; every morning, we'd say the pledge of alliegence. The real pledge of alliegence , “one nation, under god” as it has been for years before anyone on this site was even thought of. Now, it's offensive to say those things. It's gotten so out of hand that it was removed completely in some places. Please explain this to me. If you don't wanna say it then mouth the damn words, or stand in the hall till it's over (seriously, it only takes all of two minutes to recite). It's not my job to say weather it's wrong or right, but all i know is that we had no school shootings, overly pregent girls, or teacher on student action (though i kinda wish for the last one) when i was in school.

3). Christmas . Ok, see i can totally understand if you don't celebrate the holiday. Truly, i can. There are about, what, several different holidays going on at the same time? But this is the issue: If someone says “Merry Christmas”, or hangs up decorations that say it what the hell does it matter if it's not your holiday to begin with? If I walk by a building that has “Happy Hanukkah” written all over it, what do i care? I'm not Jewish, hell, i'll probably be inclined to walk up and wish you one just to be friendly. But no, since people can't seem to take the fact that a holiday is popular and celebrated with pride, it has to be banned or censored. Where i work, someone actually tried to sue us because we had posters placed around the work office advertising our Christmas party (which as far as i know, has been celebrated for over 20 years at this particular place). Why is it now, that someone has finally hit adulthood is it suddenly wrong? This person could have easily ignored the posters, or just chose not to attend. My point is simple: people were saying it before you were born, and (possibly, i'm not sure the way things are going) will be saying it after you die, get over it.

4). Censorship in general . as i've stated before, i was born in the 80's. Back then, we had a very simple way of dealing with censoring. If your parents did not want you watching a program, playing a game, or reading a certain kind of book (wink, wink) they made sure you didn't, and made damn sure that you didn't want to them to think you were. Simple. Nowadays, however, as soon as someone see something that pisses them off, it's too much to actually parent your kid and tell them no. It's too much to organize with other parents so that they know the danger of what you've discovered. It's too much to actually avoid the program yourself (in the case that you don't have children). Whatever it is, it has to go. Cancelled, thrown in the vault of “bad and icky stuff”, and locked away forever. Don't mind the other 1.5 million people who actually enjoyed it, but your feelings being hurt are more important. If you don't like something, position yourself away from it, but don't bring the rest of us down with you.

5.) Lawsuits . It seems now that everything can be solved with 3 little words: I'll sue you. When the hell did this begin? I believe the whole courtroom bandwagon started getting big after that one guy sued McDonalds because they “made him fat”. After the nation saw that one dumbass could sue a international behemoth like Mickey D's, and do so with the dumbest excuse known to present man, and actually win people started to think “if he can do it, so can I”. After that every little nick and scratch that could've been solved easily, ended up in a courtroom. TV shows like Judge Mathis, and Judge Judy were a dime a dozen. And now i can't drive 5 miles, or watch tv for 10 minutes without hearing a advertisement for a lawyer. I really don't know where i was going with this, but it pisses me off to no end. The bad thing is that most cases nowadays can easily be solved in a matter of minutes with a bit of talking and listening. However, people now see the opportunity to turn “your dog peed on my rug” into “this man's ferocious animal desecrated my home, and upset my alergies. I demand $10,000 to make me go away”.

6.) Stupid People . If any of you watch Mind of Mencia, or have seen some of his stand up work, you'll know where i'm coming from with this. There are too many people in the world doing things that they know are wrong and dumb, but they do it anyway and we're expected to feel sorry for them. And the thing that simply kills me is when someone does something they see on tv or a game or on the radio; they try it, they get hurt, and they wanna sue the people that “told” them to do it. Every 2nd grader knows that half the stuff that comes through digital media is either: a joke, an illusion, or downright impossible. So where were these guys when they were handing out common sense?

7). Parents (if you haven't moved to another thread by now, this is the last one i promise). WTF is wrong with parents today? Why is it when a child does something like the stupid people mentioned above, they never want to take responsibility for their half-asses parenting or that child's aparent lack of grey matter? Why is it that for some reason their kids can't possibly be in the wrong? There has to be a third party to blame somewhere in the equation. When i was a kid, if you did something stupid, chances are you were yelled at, got your ass beat, and then punished (no, a ass beating and punishment are not the same. It kinda depends on were you're from). And speaking of whooping ass, what the deal with the lack of spankings nowadays? I saw a woman pop her little 8 year old on the butt when she was acting a fool, and someone actually came up to her and said “you shouldn't do that”. Let me tell you what, if you have kids of your own, raise them your way. Don't try to spread your infinite wisdom to others unless they ask you for it. Now, if the lady put the kid in a freaking german suplex and followed it up with a Mike Tyson uppercut then it's time to step in. A lot of parents say things like “it worked for me when i was a kid”. Let me tell you something: Life has changed since you were a kid. Just because you got put in “time out” when you were bad, doesn't mean you should send little Johnny to his room stock piled with a PS2 and Plasma TV. The only thing he's gonna learn is "i can do what i want and not really get in trouble for it." Besides, after a bit of hellraising, a 30 minute sit down is all a kid needs to get some energy back and do it again.

I know i'm gonna catch hell for some of the things i put her, but i really don't give a damn. Some things need to be said, and hey the description did say a place to get stuff off your chest. So let the flaming begin, at least i feel better. Thank you for your time.


last edited on July 14, 2011 2:47PM
ozoneocean at 7:57PM, Dec. 22, 2006
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Heh. That just means you've grown up. We all pretty much think like this after we reach a certain age. Welcome to full adulthood! :)
Seriously, you're not alone. All those are pretty general gripes and concerns. You didn't really make any of them controversial enough to get too steamed over. Maybe the first two will have some people disagreeing a bit, but it doesn't apply to non-Americans like myself so I won't comment there. I like your idea about Demolition man though.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:25PM
mapaghimagsik at 11:23PM, Dec. 22, 2006
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So when was “under God” added to the pledge of allegience. Anyone? Anyone?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
ozoneocean at 12:10AM, Dec. 23, 2006
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mapaghimagsik
So when was “under God” added to the pledge of allegience. Anyone? Anyone?
You should expand upon that. It could have some interesting debate fodder! Us non-Americans don't have much idea about this sort of detail, or the attendant feelings and reactions.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:25PM
lothar at 1:20AM, Dec. 23, 2006
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dude ! what is this , like your manifesto or something ?

Q- what exactl is political correctness anyway ?
is it not calling down syndrome dudes Retards ?
or is it not showing military coffins on tv out of “respect” for the soldiers ?
i realy don't know what is PC and what is not anymore !!!!

BTW it would have been better if you had parcelled it out over 7 seperate debate topics , the way it is just feels like the debate forum equivalent of a gangbang !!!

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Priceman at 2:20AM, Dec. 23, 2006
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mapaghimagsik
So when was “under God” added to the pledge of allegience. Anyone? Anyone?

The pledge itself was created September 7, 1892. The words “Under God” were added June 14, 1954.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:47PM
Priceman at 2:26AM, Dec. 23, 2006
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lothar
dude ! what is this , like your manifesto or something ?

Q- what exactl is political correctness anyway ?
is it not calling down syndrome dudes Retards ?
or is it not showing military coffins on tv out of “respect” for the soldiers ?
i realy don't know what is PC and what is not anymore !!!!

BTW it would have been better if you had parcelled it out over 7 seperate debate topics , the way it is just feels like the debate forum equivalent of a gangbang !!!



If you're asking is this a public declaration of my principles, policies, or intentions ( as the word manifesto is defined as) then yes. The things i've stated here are what truly bug me, and i wanted anyone who would spend 3 minutes of their life reading it to know.

As for political correctness, i can't give you a intelligent answer on that. I always thought that PC was a way of “Candy Coating” the truth, but still making the truth obvious. Apparently the word today views it as something different.

Lastly, i had thought to put all these as separate threads, but i thought i'd be considerate and not make people navigate from one to another. Also, as someone who works on a huge network, i know how much it can suck to lose bandwidth and space over something that not everyone sees as important.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:47PM
Priceman at 2:30AM, Dec. 23, 2006
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ozoneocean
Heh. That just means you've grown up. We all pretty much think like this after we reach a certain age. Welcome to full adulthood! :)
Seriously, you're not alone. All those are pretty general gripes and concerns. You didn't really make any of them controversial enough to get too steamed over. Maybe the first two will have some people disagreeing a bit, but it doesn't apply to non-Americans like myself so I won't comment there. I like your idea about Demolition man though.

You like it? Dude, the only thing I liked about that was the free toliet paper whenever you ran out lol! But i'm glad you see a few things my way, it's nice to know that i'm not totally immature and alone in my beliefs.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:47PM
LIZARD_B1TE at 12:48PM, Dec. 23, 2006
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ozoneocean
Heh. That just means you've grown up. We all pretty much think like this after we reach a certain age. Welcome to full adulthood! :)

Wow. I must be REALLY mature for my age. 0_o

Anyway, yeah, I agree with everything on that, although for the Christmas one, I have to say that I prefer a middle ground. Sure, it bugs me that people go crazy at the phrase “Merry Christmas”, but then there are also people who are all up in arms at the phrase “Happy Holidays.” Really, I don't care if someone says “happy holidays”. I see it as being smart. If people get offended by different religions, “Happy Holidays” is pretty much the only way you can wish a total stranger a nice holiday season without risking an over blown lawsuit that makes no sense at all.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:36PM
mapaghimagsik at 1:58PM, Dec. 23, 2006
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I have to agree with the lizard here. In my neck of the woods, people are more fantatical about the “Merry Christmas” and get upset over the “happy holidays”.


Sadly enough, it seems like stores around here just resort to saying nothing. Hell of a way to celebrate the overlap of so many holidays. To me, that PC, and the “War on Christmas” morons are the ones to blame. I'd rather hear “Happy Kwanzaa” than here that painful silence that comes from people wanting to say something, but having been battered by wackjobs of every screed, are afraid to.

I hate the smell of religious fundamentalism in the morning. It smells like kids with poopy diapers.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
skoolmunkee at 3:49PM, Dec. 23, 2006
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The pledge of allegiance is just a bunch of words to recite anyway, I never cared what I was saying when I had to say it in school. I think it's a silly thing to have in the first place, good citizenship doesn't come from reciting a pledge.

Also when my future children are bad they will be punished by being sent to the bathroom. It's boring.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:39PM
mapaghimagsik at 5:57PM, Dec. 23, 2006
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Skool, you didn't get the memo.

Good people are not about fair play, equal rights, or mutual respect. That stuff about real courage coming from the heart? Claptrap.

Good people are about magnetic magnets, pledges, and flag burning ammendments.
Please continue to clap louder, or I will have to report you to the “thought police”

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Ronson at 10:04AM, Dec. 26, 2006
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I don't want to pull your entire rant apart, so I'll just share a few thoughts that occur to me:

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS
It's a stupid term. It is endlessly nebulous, like the terms “conservative” and “liberal” today. Anyone who is offended can claim to be a victim of someone who is being “politically incorrect.” It allows the stupid to remain proud of their stupidity because it isn't nice to point it out to them.

But it's also about stamping out racism, sexism, and elitism from our public forums. That isn't an idea wholly without merit. If we stop tolerating morons who claim to be of a superior race, a superior gender or a superior class then we as a nation might start giving everyone an equal chance.

There are a lot of sexist, racist, elitists that complain loudly about the problems with “political correctness.” There are also a lot of smart, open-minded, rational people who think silencing the morons just hides them, doesn't get rid of them.

The “grey area” between publicly condemning idiot talk and silencing free speech will not be something that we can ever stop arguing about. Though I think a vast improvement to our education system might prevent some of the horribly ignorant things people say from being acceptable to so many.

UNDER GOD AND THE PLEDGE
We really have to decide two things in this country. (1) Do we believe in a separation of Church and State? (2) Are we really promoters of freedom and liberty?

If we believe (1), then “under God” has to go. It advocates a certain deity (The Christian God) and associates our laws and society as subordinate to it.

If we belive (2), then the whole Pledge has to go. A “Pledge of Allegiance” is a promise to hold the government, the flag, or whatever as sacrosanct.

Like Skool, the Pledge is a meaningless ditty I used to recite every day in public school. It was spoken in unfeeling monotone, and I never even paid attention to the words until I was in high school, when I decided to stop reciting it.

But forcing young kids to make that promise every day belies the freedom and liberty our country is supposed to stand for.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

Boy, that gets under some people's skin. What people? The ones who don't celebrate the OTHER holidays of this season and focus only on Christmas. “Happy Holidays” is a catch all for Christmas, New Year's, Hannukah, Kwanza and whatever else people celebrate in these few months.

You know when I say “Merry Christmas”? On Christmas, the actual day it occurs. Sometimes on Christmas Eve, if I know I'm around alleged Christians.

You know who coined the term “Happy Holidays” and “holiday cheer” and “holiday tree”? Marketing people trying to sell their crap to the 10% of the population that wasn't involved in Christmas.

When a story policy states that their employees should say “happy holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”, they're doing it because they know that if they identify themselves with a solely Christian holiday, they might lose a sale to those not celebrating it. It's all about the benjamins. Of course, they're quick to shift policy if it looks like the big baby Christians are going to make a stink out of it, because they're the big spenders. If they have to shaft the Jews to get the Christian dollar, they will.

And if you are having a Christmas party at work, then what exactly are you trying to tell the Jews, wiccans, pagans, atheists or Muslims? Yeah, you're telling them that you're in the majority and they should get over it. Because the word “Holiday” is so much worse than “Christmas.”

But it should be said, no one was ever fired for saying “Merry Christmas.” Ever.

SCHOOL SHOOTINGS
Are not as prevalent as people make them out to be. Our 24 hour rapacious news cycles need stories to exploit. In general, we are interested in kids shooting eachother (so long as their white suburbanites), and so the news agencies hype those stories.

School violence has gone down over the last decade. These rare displays of violence make for great tv, though.

___________

…that's enough for now. The other stuff I sorta/kinda agree with you about. Not entirely, but who's going to read this far anyway. :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
isukun at 8:15PM, Dec. 26, 2006
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While most of the rant I don't have so much of a problem with (can't say the Happy Holidays thing is even an issue where I'm living), I can't agree with the sentiments about censorship. If anything, censorship is lighter now than it's ever been in the US. Sure you have parent groups making a stink about violence and sex, but look at the shows on TV. You think shows like South Park would have been on anything less than HBO twenty years ago? People die regularly in kids shows now. Violence is pretty much the norm on Saturday morning. Prime time shows are filled with sex, violence, and various alternative topics that would have never made TV back in the 80's.

I remember most of the crap I watched in the 80's. It was ridiculously clean and that wasn't because my parents monitored what I watched. You had the same issues with shows being dumbed down and cancelled for stupid things in the 80's that you have now.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
Eirikr at 11:26AM, Dec. 27, 2006
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Excellent points. Political correctness is not only ridiculous, it's biased. How come I have to call black people “African Americans”? I don't hear any of them calling me “Caucasian”.

Most of that stuff is spot on.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:19PM
mapaghimagsik at 3:14PM, Dec. 27, 2006
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I make sure to call white people honkeys and crackers, because I wouldn't want them to feel excluded.
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Vagabond at 6:09PM, Dec. 28, 2006
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African American essentially means that:

- you like alliteration (because if you didn't, you'd realize that “African British” or “African German” sounds retarded)
- you think that Africa's an -entire- country (that's not offensive at all)
- you like to pause for 5 seconds while you try and think about the most “appropriate” term about something where people really won't care if you say “black people”
- you want to run for public office


If any of those apply, please take your head to the closest wall and repeat bashing.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
ozoneocean at 7:14PM, Dec. 28, 2006
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I don't like saying “black people” generally because you're lumping billions of different humans from hundreds of different countries and with hundreds of different ethnicities together as if they we all the same just because they have darker skin than you. I'd rather address people as individuals, not as arbitrary groups based on how pale I am in comparison to them.
 
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Mazoo at 8:47PM, Dec. 28, 2006
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What bugs me about how people are called “African American” is that many of them are not African. You may be of African heritage, but you, personally, are not “African American.”

It always reminds me of a story my History Teacher told me last year.

He is American, but he was born in South Africa (his parents were ambassadors or something like that) and he lived there for much of his life. He had a friend who lived there as well, but applied to a college in the U.S. When she put down that she was “South African” on the application, the college instantly accepted her on a full scholarship. However, when she actually got to the college, they tried to expel her because she “was not black.” She sued and was able to go to that college on those scholarships, but still. How horrible does that make “political correctness” sound? Just because someone is African does not mean they are black, but the term “African American” is generally implanting that idea in everyone.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:56PM
mapaghimagsik at 9:21AM, Dec. 29, 2006
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I love stories like this. Unprovable, untracable and taps into the primary whitie paranoia that someone – a brown someone at that – is getting something they don't deserve. Its a winner on the propaganda scale, though its missing that special kick that gets added when you can hint that somehow the brown people are using their advantage to somehow defile “our women”

If it isn't political correctness, its the gays, or the mexicans, or women, or the flag burning hoards from … well elsewhere. Its amazing that white men got anywhere, being burdened by all the colored races that didn't have the good sense to pull themselves up by the boostraps and let the eagle soar.

Meanwhile, the country gets sold off bit by bit to foreign interests. But at least the fags can't get married, right?

In my experience, the people I hear most whine about being persecuted is white men. I know its a pretty sharp rhetorical tactic to blame other people having the very fault you display, but the whole “political correctness is desrorying America” thing is pretty lame, since if you were to list off the things that *are* destroying America – the America represented by the Constitution of the United States – the “I can't call a nigger a nigger” thing is pretty low down there.

I don't get the whole “oriental or asian” thing either, but I don't piss and moan about it. “Oriental ” makes me think of rugs and all, but hey, I'd rather get fair pay for the work I do, and be able to control my own reproduction, thank you very much.

What is *especially* annoying about the whole “I want to be able to call them spicks again” discussion is that we can't even have a decent conversation about immigration and labour in this country without some asshat in a white sheet showing up and talking about racial purity.

I'm not even sure why I went here, because I know the answer to my very question of why people piss and moan about meaningless persecutions when there are real inequalities to be handled. The answer is that handling the real problems takes a lot of smarts, dedication, hard work, and some actual, real introspection,sacrifice, compassion and no small helping of empathy. Even then, you might not get “the golden answer” and you're left with compromise that makes no one happy.

It is a lot easier to complain about how people of color won't let you call them what you want.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Priceman at 1:50PM, Jan. 1, 2007
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Whoa, nice feedback everyone. Nice to see intelligent discussion isn't dead and gone.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:47PM

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