Debate and Discussion

Are there some people that everyone just seems to hate, dislike, distrust on sight?
ozoneocean at 6:48AM, June 10, 2011
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(Warning, this is a bit Kyupolly and introspective- not really a debate, it's more of a question)

Are there some people that everyone just seems to hate, dislike, distrust on sight?

I don't mean for the obvious reasons - i.e that you know their reputation, or that they look dangerous, mean, dunk, or they smell, rather it's about certain people who others just seem to ostracise for no obvious cause.

I only ask because I'm generally the opposite of that in that most people seem to tend to like me, but I also tend to befriend the sorts of people that others are automatically repelled from and I can just never figure out why that happens to them. They're perfectly good people, interesting, smart, and intelligent, generally there's something a little unconventional about them, but nothing extreme enough to explain the reactions they get.

It's something I've never been able to understand… they do nothing wrong and yet people treat them horribly. And I can't see why anyone should dislike them.
I've always wondered if a proportion of criminals in society weren't made up of those people- people who'd just been demonised and harassed by others and authority figures for so long that they simply became what they were always accused of being…

So, ARE there some signs I'm just too stupid and socialogically blind to see?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
Genejoke at 7:25AM, June 10, 2011
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I think it's just people prejudging others, even if it's down to their mannerisms.

One of my friends has a really dividing thing going. He's very social and good looking but somewhat cheeky, a lot of the time people decide he's a cocky shit on sight.
I think it has as much to do with the person who has the reaction as with the one that causes it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
ayesinback at 10:37AM, June 10, 2011
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Interesting question, and I think it's more that just dislike/like – I think many instant judgments are often made.

imo, some people are very sensitive to nonverbal queues but they're not aware of this sensitivity, so more than most, they will be the ones steering clear of some or flocking to others without even knowing why.

I find strangers approach me as if I'm the world's reference librarian. They don't want to get to know me or be friendly, they just think I know things. Recently a woman at least 15 years older than me was asking me how to judge the best grapefruits. If I'm in a group, I'll be the one asked for the time or directions, whether I'm wearing a watch or not. When I was in Germany, I was asked by other tourists (who were trying to speak German to me) about where's this, how-do-I-that.

I guess I look safe (mwahahaha)
under new management
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:14AM
El Cid at 8:11PM, June 10, 2011
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I think most friendship is, at the basest level, utilitarian. So my guess is that people who are automatically ostracized are probably viewed as not possessing much of value, and not being plugged in to a network of people generally valued by others. That's sort of a fancy way of saying people think they're losers. They could be dead wrong in that assessment, but there's something in the presentation that tends to give people that impression.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:20PM
OnlyFoolsAndVikings at 10:48PM, June 10, 2011
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Interesting thought.

I haven't really notcied anyone who is ostracized for absolutely no reason, there always seems to be a reason, either they're on their own andnever seem to be with a social group and the pack mentality of humans says: “there's a weakling, let's avoid them at all costs,” or there is another cue, like appearence, reputation ect.

There has been a few times in my life where I have seen someone seemingly avoided for no real reason, usually sitting on their own and I have gone up to spark a conversation with them. Shortly after that intitial Hello, I suddenly realise why they are alone in the first place, because they're really really really creepy or really really really annoying.

People tend to either like me or despise me, I find. But not without reason, I'm loud, I come across as dumb and obnoxious and a bit self centred.

but do I agree with Ayes, there are some people who are more sensetive to the nonverbal cues made by everyone and aren't aware.

Plus, like I mentioned before, the pack mentality comes into play. If one person avoids someone, soon another will, and another until there is a group just avoiding someone simply because they do not wish to go against the “Pack” ideal.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:21PM
machinehead at 10:55PM, June 10, 2011
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I live a Podunk, very redneck, very drunk morons with guns area. Usually they tend to hate anyone who isn't like them. The only way to really fit in is to get drunk off your ass and worship Jeff Dunham. I don't fit in with them, but they seem to accept me because I make them laugh. I've noticed that if you don't conform to what they think is normal they tend to hate you. I think people mistrust or dislike what they don't understand.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:50PM
DAJB at 2:16AM, June 11, 2011
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Hmmm. My gut reaction is to say, no, when someone is almost universally disliked there has to be a reason, even if it's very minor or based on the prejudices of the “dislikers”. Except …

If you think about the question the other way round, you get a different answer. Some people do seem to be almost universally liked, even though they may have no discernible talent, may be no more outgoing or helpful or friendly than anyone else. Some of them may even be fairly petty or spiteful but they still manage to be popular. There's just something about them. Charisma, maybe?

Whatever word you use, since that's the case, I see no reason why there shouldn't also be some kind of “anti-charisma”.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:04PM
theorah at 4:15AM, June 12, 2011
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I've only come across this kind of thing in school, where everything seems to just be socially exaggerated. And even then there is a small (and really rubbish) reason for avoiding the person, which then snowballs over the whole community.
I have never come across this in adult life, as of yet any way. I'm not the kind of person who does this either, I quite mindfully sweep all context and judgements aside until I've known a person for a while, although I do on occasion be a little bit more on guard if I meet someone who looks like they might be dogey, but then that isnt someone who is just avoided for no reason.

In terms of criminals, yes, I think thats very true and I think its a big problem people should be dealing with! I think its called ‘self fulfilling prophecy’. If you treat someone like that then they will inevitably end up believing they are like that, or react a certain way because its the only form of attention they have ever been able to attain, even if negative :( A lot of people get themselves caught up in a sociological vicious-circle, where people judge them on their background/appearance from an early age, and then they react badly to that judgement and just reinforce their stereo type even more =_=
A lot of people would say this is naive, but there are many proven cases that show criminals who go to a hospital/therapy clinic where they are treated with some much needed understanding improve and realise how bad they've been, compared to simply being thrown in a prison and being patronised/judged further. Thats a whole different subject to discuss though 0_o
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:25PM
MadTarnsman at 4:46PM, June 13, 2011
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Yes…..


“Life comes at ya pretty fast, sometimes….double tap to the head if it does….”
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:50PM
ozoneocean at 6:49AM, Aug. 22, 2011
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Thanks for the valid pints everyone, it made interesting reading!
Reading what people said and thinking a bit more about the cases I know I realise that part of the reason those people weren't liked was that they didn't fit in, and the reason that didn't put me off them was because I like people who don't fit in :)
 
But yeah, often those people did and do have things that're pretty unlikable about them too and it was just that I'm pretty tollerant of that sort of thing and give people a lot of second chances. So in the end the weird comon factor was me and not them at all- ie. nothing strange or magically unlikable about them, just the fact that I'm probably more firendly with some people than I should be.
-Which has helped me make a lot of great and unusual frineds over the years!
-Aaaaaand saddled me with the occassional arsehole too, but I've only myself to blame in that regard.
^_^
 
last edited on Aug. 22, 2011 7:30AM
bravo1102 at 10:58AM, Aug. 22, 2011
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ozoneocean wrote:
Thanks for the valid pints everyone, it made interesting reading!
Was that intentional?  Because after a few pints valid or otherwise I'll like anyone.  So long as they're buying.
 
I keep an open mind about everyone and people have to prove themselves unlikeable before I'll dislike them.  People are who they are and I accept them as who they are and not as I'd like them to be.  As far I'm concerned everyone has an equal capacity to be annoying and unlikeable, just depends on when you encounter them.
 
However, there are people I'll distrust on sight or be wary of but not dislike.
ozoneocean at 8:06PM, Aug. 22, 2011
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Oh I distrust everyone on site. >:(
 
With a few valid pints in me though I love everyone, no matter who's buying. :)
 
In theory everyone can be equally unlikable but not in practise: because of not “fitting in” many people automatically become more unlikable than others to most people, that's just how socity works, and in adition many people are just pretty dickish generally.
 
bravo1102 at 3:48AM, Aug. 23, 2011
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I've discovered over time that everyone fits in somewhere, and some fit in exerywhere.  But no one fits in nowhere.  Everyone just has to find (or even create) where they fit in and too many give up before they do.
 
Also I've observed that “fitting in” is often a choice and that choice is based on all kinds of things going on in my head not the people I'd like to fit in with.  I may not think I fit in but everyone else there thinks I do admirably.  I think I'm on the outside looking in but in reality I'm right in the thick of things.  That requires me to take two steps back.  One to get outside of my head and one to get outside the social dynamic so I can see my real place within it, not the one I perceive. I know my perceptions are not to be trusted because of my personal history.
 
Then there's giving someone you know is disliked a chance and sometimes they surprise you with startlingly good behavior and gratitude.  But then that's a hard place to get to and I used to think I was just hanging with the other outsiders.  Outside of high school that isn't necessarily true. There are one or two self-aware adults out there in the crowd of clueless lemmings. 
 
Hey where did those cool little smiley faces go?  :-(
ozoneocean at 4:44AM, Aug. 23, 2011
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bravo1102 wrote:
Also I've observed that “fitting in” is often a choice and that choice is based on all kinds of things going on in my head not the people I'd like to fit in with.  I may not think I fit in but everyone else there thinks I do admirably.

Fair enough for “you yourself”, but the sorts of people I'm talking about in their situations… Well, they didn't “fit” and they couldn't help it: and it wasn't because they didn't think they fit in or not either, in fact they probably didn't realise that was the issue, which was precisely why it was. You get me? :)
 
-Fish out of water people, from different countries, backgrounds, classes etc.
 
This is the reason they found themselves disliked in the situations I observed them. And yes- put them in situations where they fit and things change dramatically for them.
 
As to making friends with people who're disliked- I do that a lot, always have. Sometimes though there are very good reasons for that dislike (not often, but sometimes). You can get yourself saddled with something bad… but then that can happen with anyone. People who aren't disliked are just as likely to turn out o have something genuinely bad about them. Funnily enough.
 
bravo1102 at 5:13AM, Aug. 23, 2011
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ozoneocean wrote:  
Fair enough for “you yourself”, but the sorts of people I'm talking about in their situations… Well, they didn't “fit” and they couldn't help it: and it wasn't because they didn't think they fit in or not either, in fact they probably didn't realise that was the issue, which was precisely why it was. You get me? :)
 
-Fish out of water people, from different countries, backgrounds, classes etc.
 
 
Oh pish, that is not exactly neighborly is it?  ;) I say welcome the person who is often all too aware they don't belong there and make them feel at home.  Try working at a car rental desk sometime (hotel desk!)  and in comes the poor fish out of water fresh off the plane from India or France and they have no clue.  Make them comfy because they are out of their element and get them on their way efficently.  It's that whole customer service and effective communication thing that I have recognized in my salesperson mom and my lobbyist sister.
 
 
 
Some can afford not to help people fit in.  I keep finding myself in situations where it's my job.
 
 
 
 
I've also learned that I don't care a wit if someone dislikes me on sight because I'm not like them.  Honestly they don't know me so what do they know? What can they know?  I'm not going to put my preception of someone before the evidence.  There are one or two of us in the world who try to welcome people who don't fit and even get paid to do it.
 
 
 
last edited on Aug. 23, 2011 5:16AM
ozoneocean at 5:59AM, Aug. 23, 2011
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You're approaching this from a very different direction Bravo. ;)
 
If you're coming from that angle though, maybe you could help train New York hotel staff, they tend to be a rather unhelpful, dim-witted group on the whole, it surprises me that any tourists get on in the city at all.
Well, some of the concierges weren't tooo bad, but the “bell-persons” (as they called them) seemed to have been created out of animated rock… And that's putting it really nicely. Compared to the rest of the country, they're definitely the stupidest most unhelpful group.
 
On the other side, it's a strange thing in the US that many people in serving type jobs really have to put on an extra-friendly face, or just be helpful at all so they can get a tip from you… I'm not really comfortable with that. Not that I like unhelpful grumps either of course, no, what I like is people in the service industry who're actually paid enough not to need or want tips who're friendly and helpful anyway. That's how it used to be here and still is mostly, but it's changing gradually… The tip culture seems like something good initially, but it's really quite a bad thing for all in the end. (means an excuse to pay people less and it means service quality overall will dip)
 
Faliat at 7:39AM, Aug. 27, 2011
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There are three types of human beings on Earth:
People that like me, these folks typically become my friends. People that hate me, there's a high percentage of those. People that hate me but then grow to like me once they know more about me. Very few exceptions.
I think it might have something to do with my loud voice, blurred boundaries between public and personal information, blurting out of seemingly uninteresting or stupid trivia, my general appearance and habit of pestering when I want someone to see something I've done that drives some human beings mad.
As for my own predjuces, I have almost none except for one… Orange people. From personal experience they're usually the folks that hate me with very few examples in which they've been nice if not a little bit… Racist…
My sister hates “posh” people. The funeral of a lad called Horatio that was killed by a polar bear in Norway on TV sent her on a rant about it. She automatically thinks they're all Tory supporters. She gets verbally violent about it.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
HappyLandings at 7:52PM, Sept. 1, 2011
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I think the benefit of the doubt is pretty much given to people the very moment they are seen, but how people follow up on that first impression is up to them. Since I frequent conventions in my spare time, I've got a lot of knowlege on the subject of human interaction, and the one thing I've learned mroe than anything else is that people have different degrees of tolerance.
For example. I have a close, personal friend, who the community at large hates. He's been persecuted. His pictures have been uploaded on 4chan, and he's gotten prank phone calls on days of major conventions. My reaction to him is far more tame. He annoys me, but I can get along with him okay.
 

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