Debate and Discussion

Aspies in the house?
Skullbie at 11:17AM, Oct. 12, 2008
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KingRidley i like you you've got to remember; this is a subforum on a webcomics site. It'd be loevly to assume all the people on here are giving you good info but in this section it's quite the opposite. Rational intelligent people here like Hawk are great; but few and far between. So most of the info you're going to get is from idiots who think they're a bonified amatuer net psychologists.

Hell even i think i'm an amatuer psychologist.

Those people are judging a condition SOLELY by an article found on the internet, and to a normal person, that's just retarded. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:46PM
JoeL_CQB at 12:05PM, Oct. 12, 2008
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not to be a jerk to kingridley,

but lothar and ozone do have a point. for some people, they do need the pills, and for some other people, it's not necessary.

I was diagnosed with ADD near the end of high school. But seeing that I got so far, my doctor and teachers said that I don't really need the pills.

I still haven't taken a pill, so I can't say if it makes me better or not.

Although I have run into times where I would consider about taking up on a prescription, and then selling them $5 per pill. That was mainly because a lot of people in college used them to get their work done. Not because of ADD, but there was a crap ton of other things to do, and it helped them blaze through the work.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:10PM
lothar at 5:34PM, Oct. 12, 2008
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Someone
…and to a normal person, that's just retarded.
LOL @ teh Ironing !

anyway
How many of you folks with aspers are living in the US ?

anybody here ever heard of Acid reflux disease ?
i used to suffer from this disease and many members of my family did as well . i also had terrible stomach pain every time i ate , i suddenly developed an allergy to milk at age 20, and numerous other and increasingly severe food allergies.

when i moved out of America my allergies were gone , i no longer have acid reflux, or allergies to milk or constant stomach aches, EXcept when i eat foods imported from the states !

It's in the FOOD ! heres some new illness that comes out of nowhere and effects many many people And , heres the key point, it can be remedied with a CHEMICAL ! so , what is the cause ? a CHEMICAL !
i'm not going to say its some conspiracy to control people, i don't think it is.
i don't know what chemicals cause it , maybe its just a combonation of all the pesticides hormones and antibiotics in the food. maybe its in the water .
now Listen carefully , I am NOT saying this is some mind control conspiracy !
im just saying that there is something wrong with the food !

is it so crazy that chemicals could cause this problem ? if you are using chemicals to cure it…

BTW…
i experienced Almost ALL of these symptoms of aspers listed above , When i lived in the USA. now , not so much .
if you are so convinced that this is real, then maybe you are like me and just hypersensitive to the chemicals in your food .
if they can effect your stomach or other parts of your body , then why not the brain ?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
KingRidley at 6:06PM, Oct. 12, 2008
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Skullbie
Rational intelligent people here like Hawk are great; but few and far between. So most of the info you're going to get is from idiots who think they're a bonified amatuer net psychologists.
I know, but I think I have the right to yell at them because they think like that. Especially because of the animosity (I remembered the word I wanted to use last night) I'm seeing towards these conditions. Ignorance is no excuse to behave like that. Especially with medicine. You need YEARS of education just to handle small things.




JoeL_CQB
not to be a jerk to kingridley,

but lothar and ozone do have a point. for some people, they do need the pills, and for some other people, it's not necessary.
No I don't mind, I do it to enough people (usually because they did it first). And you're not being much of a jerk anyways. Good on you.

Anyways yeah I said that too, there are mild or even insignificant cases, but those are not any kind of justification to say that the disease doesn't exist.




lothar
anybody here ever heard of Acid reflux disease ?
i used to suffer from this disease and many members of my family did as well . i also had terrible stomach pain every time i ate , i suddenly developed an allergy to milk at age 20, and numerous other and increasingly severe food allergies.

when i moved out of America my allergies were gone , i no longer have acid reflux, or allergies to milk or constant stomach aches, EXcept when i eat foods imported from the states !

And , heres the key point, it can be remedied with a CHEMICAL ! so , what is the cause ? a CHEMICAL !

i'm not going to say its some conspiracy to control people, i don't think it is.
i don't know what chemicals cause it , maybe its just a combonation of all the pesticides hormones and antibiotics in the food. maybe its in the water .


is it so crazy that chemicals could cause this problem ? if you are using chemicals to cure it…

Your doctors must have really sucked if they couldn't explain this to you.

The acid in the stomach will sometimes eat away at the mucus lining that normally protects the stomach. Our gastric juices, while diluted with food and saliva, are incredibly potent. Once that mucus is gone, the stomach begins to digest itself unwillingly. It creates burns and sores on the inside of the stomach, and can sometimes burn clean through to the outside of the stomach wall, causing your digestive fluids to lean onto surrounding organs and damage them as well. If there is food in the leak, it can cause serious infection and sepsis. In Acid reflux, the fluids are exposed to the esophagus, which has very little protection (why your throat is sore after you puke), and causes serious burns there as well.

Acid reflux can be caused by eating alot of spicy foods, or by eating too much food in general. The stomach gets full, you keep going, and before you know if you're burning your own esophagus. Or maybe the acid isn't being diluted enough, or your esophageal sphincter is weak, or whatever. It can also be caused by stress. Chances are very high that it ISN'T being caused by pesticides (which would make you ALOT MORE SICK) or antibiotics (I'm pretty sure those don't cause Acid Reflux). It's probably just what you were eating, not what was in it.


CURING this condition technically involves chemicals, but only in the same sense that your food is MADE of complex chemical chains. Most treatments for this condition involve lowering the pH of your gastric juices. That way, they won't be as dangerous to your stomach lining or your esophagus. It's nothing fancy or complex, it's just diluting a strong acid with a strong/mind base. Very basic chemistry.

Saying that ANYONE for ANY REASON put in chemicals that intentionally cause acid reflux (simply because, and I'm using YOUR logic here, it is cured with “chemicals”) is ridiculous. And if that were the case, then even people like ME would be getting it. And there would be a MUCH larger market on ‘cures’ for the fake condition. Think about this stuff really hard before you start coming up with any theories.

Deciding that because it involves chemicals there is a chance that people could be using it to cause diseases like Aspergers, ADD, etc. is honestly an insult to just about everything, ESPECIALLY to people who actually have those conditions. EVEN IF you're saying these “chemicals” aren't intentionally in the food. If they could be cured by a simple change of diet, then people would know. News would get out, even if it was because some lucky guy went on a special diet and found himself cured and decided to tell his friends. These conditions are very real, and while diet and exercise can HELP them (those two help everything by the way), they can not CURE them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
lothar at 6:51PM, Oct. 12, 2008
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Nowhere did i say it was intentional .
i think it's just an unlucky coincidence.

and besides the acid reflux i had allergies to food that simply went away .
the same tendencies described as symptoms of aspers went away .
i'm not basing this on just the one article on aspers . i have experienced it, and not just on a surface level. i thought there was something realy wrong with me. all these things people are describing i felt that kind of stuff also . i realise that its not just the outward signs , its a deep seeded feeling of alienation and lack of feeling , like you're not human , something is missing. its very hard to describe . if you have this problem , if you realy do , maybe you should try to focus on what is causing it . why just accept it as something you have to live with?

let me ask you people who suffer from aspers a few questions.

1- when did it start?
2- do you have friends who also have aspers?
3- how old are you?
4- are you married single?
5- how much time do you spend on the computer?
6- how often are you alone?
7- do you live in a rural or urban area?
8- what are your eating habits?
9- do you drink/smoke ?
10- do you have a job?
11- do you have any food allergies ?


answer these questions if you want to
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
ozoneocean at 8:47PM, Oct. 12, 2008
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Skullbie
KingRidley i like you you've got to remember; this is a subforum on a webcomics site. It'd be loevly to assume all the people on here are giving you good info but in this section it's quite the opposite. Rational intelligent people here like Hawk are great; but few and far between. So most of the info you're going to get is from idiots who think they're a bonified amatuer net psychologists.

Hell even i think i'm an amatuer psychologist.

Those people are judging a condition SOLELY by an article found on the internet, and to a normal person, that's just retarded. :)
Lothar's right SKull, sorry, the irony is too great :)

Considering we're discussing this here we can say what we like and they can read it or not. Faliat didn't have to post it here ;)

Look, from what I've read and heard about this “problem” there are a significant group of experts that believe that it doesn't exist. It's up to you whether you want to think there's a special reason why you're a bit dorky at your age or whether you're just going through normal social awkwardness like billions of other teens. WHatever makes it easier for you to get over it kid. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
KingRidley at 11:07PM, Oct. 12, 2008
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lothar
Nowhere did i say it was intentional .
i think it's just an unlucky coincidence.


the same tendencies described as symptoms of aspers went away .

8- what are your eating habits?
11- do you have any food allergies ?

It is not a coincidence that curing the condition involves lowering the pH or stomach acid.



Yes, sometimes they go away. In mild cases. In extreme cases, they don't. In extreme cases you don't grow out of it.

And seriously, you are not going to attribute this mental disorder to eating habits.



ozoneocean
Lothar's right SKull, sorry, the irony is too great :)

Considering we're discussing this here we can say what we like and they can read it or not. Faliat didn't have to post it here ;)

Look, from what I've read and heard about this “problem” there are a significant group of experts that believe that it doesn't exist. It's up to you whether you want to think there's a special reason why you're a bit dorky at your age or whether you're just going through normal social awkwardness like billions of other teens. WHatever makes it easier for you to get over it kid.

No he's not. And neither are you.

And we can say whatever we want, huh? And we're not responsible for our opinions because Person *blank* didn't have to say anything at all?

Horse shiiiiiiiiiiit. From what you've read doesn't mean to jack shit. And it's all to convenient to ignore the fact that while your sources claim this doesn't exist, there are plenty of other sources that say it does. This is not just a couple of people who felt like a dork when they were kids you insensitive vagrant. I felt like a major dork when I was a kid, and I seriously was. I was a huge fucking Goddamn dork and I am ashamed of what I used to act like. But I don't claim to have Aspergers. Because I know that people do actually have it and those same people suffer from it. This is a real condition. And again, your apathy and animosity give you zero fucking to come across with such a condescending attitude. “Whatever makes it easier for you to get over it” My ass. And nice touch with the ‘kid’ there, as if you didn't already look like enough of a jerk.

Seriously, what are you feeding that ego? It's bigger than mine, and that's saying something.


But let me go ahead and ask you a few questions here, and we'll see exactly how far this delusion goes.

Do you believe in:
Autism
Schizophrenia
ADD
Down Syndrome
Multiple Personalities
Cancer
Obesity
Multiple Sclerosis

Those are all conditions that can be “mild.” Some of them you can grow out of. Some you can learn to live with. Some are caused by chemical imbalances or mutations on a cellular level. Some cause others. We'll let you decide which do what. Or you'll just breeze past it because you shouldn't have to explain yourself to the likes of me.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
ozoneocean at 2:59AM, Oct. 13, 2008
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Did I touch a nerve there man? :)
No need to get so personal, even if you do feel a little dorky ;)

And we can indeed discuss this the way we like, as long as you stick to the topic and don't just go on INSULTING people, because it is a forum for debate and discussion.


Funny you should mention all those other genuine problems. One of the worst aspects of fringe disorders like aspergers is that people associate it with real problems like Schizophrenia. And unlike the silly things people complain about with aspergers (ooo I'm smarter than people but just can't relate to them, oh woe is me:(), Schizophrenia can genuinely affect people's lives in an extremely negative fashion and can require a lifetime of intensive support from family members and charities for a person just to live with some semblance of normality. In extreme cases.

One of my good friends is in just such a situation and I have long time family friends who've taught people with severe learning disabilities for years. To have something like this “Aspergers” syndrome compared to them is frankly just plain wrong. …like comparing a papercut to an amputation.

You've weakened your position beyond reckoning there.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
lothar at 3:02AM, Oct. 13, 2008
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kingridley, i think you need to calm down and show some more respect here .
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Faliat at 7:48AM, Oct. 13, 2008
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ozoneocean
Funny you should mention all those other genuine problems.
Oh, so AUTISM is genuine, eh? Even though A.S. is often considered a high-functioning version of it?

Anyway, in regards to Lothar's list.

1- Birth. When I was born, I exhibited unusual behaviour for a newborn baby. Being able to roll over and lift my head up and turn it over, undo my own swaddling to look at my fingers, etc… The freaking people out didn't stop there. I had a good grasp of language for a toddler. But you'll have to see it to believe it.
2- Many. But that's because a few years ago I went on a college course specifically for those with it or undergoing testing. A couple of them even have other diagnosed problems commonly associated with it. Including ADD, Dyslexia and OCD.
3- 19
4- Single.
5- I sit at my desk for about eight hours a day total. But most of the time I'm actually doing other things and just happen to be sitting at my desk with the screen off.
6- Not often enough. My sister's currently unemployed, too. So she's usually around the house.
7- Urban area very close to the countryside. So it's a mix between the two.
8- Lots of vegetables. Hardly any red meat. I drink high-caffeine content drinks because they're the only way I can get to sleep at night. Water makes me restless.
9- no/no
10- Currently unemployed but seeking employment.
11- No. But I have had bad reactions to chlorine in swimming pools and certain types of stage smoke in the past.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
KingRidley at 8:03AM, Oct. 13, 2008
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ozoneocean
Did I touch a nerve there man?
No need to get so personal, even if you do feel a little dorky

And we can indeed discuss this the way we like, as long as you stick to the topic and don't just go on INSULTING people, because it is a forum for debate and discussion.


And unlike the silly things people complain about with aspergers (ooo I'm smarter than people but just can't relate to them, oh woe is me)

…like comparing a papercut to an amputation.

You've weakened your position beyond reckoning there.

Yeah, you've been touching the nerve for a while. It's not my nerve though, or at least not the one you think you touched. It's the nerve that contains all my sympathy and concern for mental disorders.
And just to reiterate, I was saying that while I felt like a dork, I did not blame it on any mental disorders like some people would do. Bolded for emphasis.


This is a forum for debate and discussion. Not for "You can hold whatever view you want and I can say anything about it that I wan because you didn't have to say anything at all, kid." That's not how you debate properly.


I haven't seen anyone on here claiming that! Of course it could be because I'm so riled up at you and lothar right now, but I really don't think I've seen anyone claiming to be smarter because of this condition.

No no, it's more like comparing an amputation to a hand crippled from birth. Sometimes the hand is still usable, and other times it isn't. Seriously, this condition is not “Oh I don't want to talk to people they might not like me boo hoo.”

It is “I can't make eye contact because it's so stressful for me, almost painful even. I can't read the simple signs that people give all the time, even without knowing it, and this ruins friendships for me. I don't identify the context in a frown or a bad mood, and I appear apathetic or rude because of that. I can't make friends because I either make them angry, or I drive them away with my obsessions.” That is not just being a dork.


But for all I know you were the unpopular kid in your school, and you saw these kids getting special treatment and wondered why you couldn't have that. So now, out of a mix of jealousy and depression from your childhood, you refuse to believe that the condition is real because that's the only way you can but those kids in the same boat as you and justify calling it all “unfair.”


My only response to your closing remarks:

Dohohohohohohoho.

I would post a picture of Statler and Waldorf, the Hecklers from the Muppet Show, but you would remove it, ruining the joke.



lothar
kingridley, i think you need to calm down and show some more respect here .

Get this lothar, you have to earn respect. And quite frankly, judging from my previous run-ins with you on this board you do not deserve any respect from me. I don't respect people who are morally insulting. Especially not people like you and your special friend here. I will not actively chase you down and act like a dick, because I'm not a troll, but when we do encounter each other I will not show respect.

And before either of you respond with “OH WELL I DON'T RESPECT PEOPLE WHO ARE THE NORMAL KIND OF INSULTING HOHOHOHO” I already recognize and appreciate the irony in this situation.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
ozoneocean at 8:47AM, Oct. 13, 2008
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Funny again that you cut out all the real meat from my post:
Funny you should mention all those other genuine problems. One of the worst aspects of fringe disorders like aspergers is that people associate it with real problems like Schizophrenia. And unlike the silly things people complain about with aspergers (ooo I'm smarter than people but just can't relate to them, oh woe is me), Schizophrenia can genuinely affect people's lives in an extremely negative fashion and can require a lifetime of intensive support from family members and charities for a person just to live with some semblance of normality. In extreme cases.
I really do know people with practical experience in the field of learning disorders. Real, severe ones. Things like dealing with people who at 19 years of age wet their pants and cry when something disturbs them. And the people I've known with Schizophrenia (which isn't one simple easily classifiable problem), have a very steep road to climb in life. One, as I've said is in care for life, the drugs he uses have to change all the time because they lose effectiveness and tend to have strange side effects, his parents are stuck paying for him to live in shared accommodation. Another good friend I knew was in and out of prison for many years because of his condition, until he got it diagnosed and started getting help for it.

So I'm in a fairly decent position to judge what is normal, and what people are able to cope with. Everything I've read, and heard points to this issue as being just another popular fringe “disorder”, more a social classification than an issue, much like many of the variations of ADD, mild depression, and autism (obviously not like the sever end of any of those). And everything posted here confirms that.

That you would compare apergers to Schizophrenia still dumbfounds me.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
Faliat at 9:35AM, Oct. 13, 2008
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Ozone, the only time I've read Asperger's and Schizophrenia in the same sentence is in your posts.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
Hawk at 9:40AM, Oct. 13, 2008
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Hey, nobody's trying to pass off Asperger's Syndrome as being more serious than Schizophrenia or Cancer. Nobody's even trying to get sympathy. I think the frustration is coming from the fact that you and Lothar refuse to acknowledge its existence, even as a less-serious disorder.

I don't even know why I care. It's not like I even have the problem. I think it's just that this is a little more closed-minded that I expected from you, Ozone.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
KingRidley at 9:43AM, Oct. 13, 2008
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ozoneocean
I really do know people with practical experience in the field of learning disorders. Real, severe ones.

Everything I've read, and heard points to this issue as being just another popular fringe “disorder”, more a social classification than an issue

That you would compare apergers to Schizophrenia still dumbfounds me.
Yeah so do I. I know plenty of people who are mentally retarded. I still occasionally talk with someone from my high school who is retarded (although I've never been told exactly what he has). But it's still bullshit to say that "Because these are real disorders, this one is not.“ Just because it's overdiagnosed in some people, or because you think it's just ”being a bit of a dork" that doesn't mean it's not real.

Here's something relevant. Some people are very fat. For some of them it's just their fault. But for others they have a legitimate medical condition that causes their body to be incapable of getting rid of the extra fat. Alot of fat people try to act like they have the same condition to get the same sympathy. It's not cool that they do that, but that doesn't mean that we should say there is no underlying condition at all. Just because some people don't have it, it doesn't mean that there aren't still people suffering from it.


Okay, that's awesome that you've read that other stuff. Good for you, yadda yadda. But you are ignoring, still, that many doctors do think it's real. So many of them think it's real that it is viewed as a real condition. It is diagnosed and treated like all the other real conditions.



That you would deny the existence of aspergers or ADD confounds me. I compare it to schizophrenia in the sense that they are both recognizable and treatable mental disorders. Schizophrenia is usually alot more debilitating, yes. Aspergers can be debilitating too. But no, it's much easier for you to just label it as a social condition. They're just dorks, there's nothing at all really wrong with them. You shouldn't help them or pity them because they just want attention and an excuse as to why they are so dorky. Leave them to suffer because you don't think it's real.

Let me try another comparison here. You have person A. He has cancer. Then you have person B. He has a stress related disorder that is causing him headaches and alot of emotional pain.

You want to cure person A because he has cancer. You do what you can, and he can live life close to normally.

You deny person B treatment or even the dignity of a viable explanation because you think it's all in his head, even though that is the nature of the problem. His headaches drive him mad and make everyday like that much more stressful. It might even one day drive him to suicide, but we can't actually prove that.


You have a schizophrenic. You want him to learn and live unhindered by his condition. He gets medicine and help from family members. He lives almost normally.

You have a kid with aspergers. You tell him that everything wrong with him is his problem because it's not a condition, it's just personality flaws. So God bless you, you've saved your schizophrenic while you've damned a poor kid to being an outcast, and what's worse is that you claim it's his own problem. Hell, maybe just telling him it was a condition would have helped. It could have given him some confidence, a way to say “If it's a sickness, I can get better.”

But no, he's just a dork. Poor dork.







Not a real condition he says.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
lothar at 10:36AM, Oct. 13, 2008
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Someone
aspers guy video
hahah ! wow . i was actualy starting to think there might , just might be something to this aspers thing until i saw that first video .
so the guy is basicaly saying he has this disorder that cant be proven , its just how he feels , and he gets special treatment and he doesn't want to be cured , he likes having aspers !
HOW is that A PROBLEM ???
he sounds like one of those conversations you have when your stoned and then you forget it later so you decide to tape yourself and all your revelations.
“i like to watch cartoons so that means im like half kid half adult” OMG me 2
“loud noises give me a headache” what a wuss , i sleep with a lawnmower running next to my bed.
“music goes into my brain and make me have different emotions ” Welcome to the human race genius !!!

that second video was clearly plain old autism .

im just having real trouble figuring out what these people want . is it attention, an easy ride, Do you want to be normal ? cuz maybe you haven't figured this out yet ; THERES NO SUCH THING AS NORMAL ! its a fairy tale concocted by disney.

i dunno , this all just seems like gatica or brave new world to me .
maybe thats the future , life is a disorder - diagnoses replaces character
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
ozoneocean at 10:40AM, Oct. 13, 2008
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Faliat
Ozone, the only time I've read Asperger's and Schizophrenia in the same sentence is in your posts.
Well you've obviously not paid much attention here since KingRidley first introduced the two, and my posts answer him. Is that because of your aspergers? :(
Hawk
I think the frustration is coming from the fact that you and Lothar refuse to acknowledge its existence, even as a less-serious disorder.
You've also seemed to miss some things hawk, I believe I acknowledged it as: "more a social classification than an issue, much like many of the variations of ADD, mild depression, and autism (obviously not like the sever end of any of those).".
Not too far from what you yourself described it as, if I'm not too much mistaken, which I could be ;)
KingRidley
That you would deny the existence of aspergers or ADD confounds me
Given my previous quote, this is just an attempt to wrongly characterise my position in a way you can more easily address. Ho hum.

Videos aren't valid debate points… you should really try and express it yourself. But I did try and watch both of them for you :)
The first one didn't load. The second showed a pair of awkward, socially backward children, the kind that aren't uncommon at that age. Even learning difficulties aren't uncommon. I knew a few people like growing up, one that I know has gone on to be a successful radio producer. :)

We really go back to Lothar's point about "what IS normal?", especially regarding socialisation.
KingRidley, these people have difficulties socially, that is the nature of this problem, why is it wrong to call it a social disorder?
————————————–

For children, growing up, there are so many barriers to easy socialisation with one's peers, this is why we have labels like dorks, geeks, nerds etc. Perhaps that reason is excessive shyness, physical disability, a mild manifestation of ADD, dyslexia etc, it really doesn't matter too much: the thing is that most kids have some barrier of some sort, it's hard for many, many kids to easily navigate these waters, even up until their early 20s in some cases. This is why Lothar and I find the focus here so bemusing.

It lacks perspective and context.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
Hawk at 10:50AM, Oct. 13, 2008
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ozoneocean
You've also seemed to miss some things hawk, I believe I acknowledged it as: "more a social classification than an issue, much like many of the variations of ADD, mild depression, and autism (obviously not like the sever end of any of those).".
Not too far from what you yourself described it as, if I'm not too much mistaken, which I could be ;)

Oh, okay. I'm fully willing to admit it could be some sort of social classification. You're right, that is sort of how I was regarding it. I guess I just got hung up on the “They'll grow out of it” bit, since I've met people who haven't.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
KingRidley at 2:59PM, Oct. 13, 2008
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lothar
so the guy is basicaly saying he has this disorder that cant be proven , its just how he feels , and he gets special treatment and he doesn't want to be cured , he likes having aspers !
HOW is that A PROBLEM ???

that second video was clearly plain old autism .

im just having real trouble figuring out what these people want . is it attention, an easy ride, Do you want to be normal ? cuz maybe you haven't figured this out yet ; THERES NO SUCH THING AS NORMAL ! its a fairy tale concocted by disney.

He only said he wanted to keep it because it's part of him as a person. Like if someone had a cure for your crazy views you wouldn't take it. They make you who you are.

It is a problem because dorky kids grow out of it, while he probably won't. The best he can do is make it manageable. And again, his case is probably mild.

No, that video is aspergers. Of course it has been said here (and in the first video) that aspergers is a form of autism that isn't as extreme, so I can see how you or anyone else would make that mix up.

They want to be normal. They want to be able to read faces and make eye contact and make friends. And normality is an idea propagated by Disney. Riiiiiiight. Other than my ADD I'm normal. I bet in real life you'd almost maybe seem normal. Skullbie and Hawk and JoeL_CQB are all normal. Ozone ocean probably is normal too. Normal exists, and normal is very common. And even if there isn't normal, there is still average. And what most people really want is to be average.




ozoneocean
Is that because of your aspergers?

KingRidley
That you would deny the existence of aspergers or ADD confounds me
Given my previous quote, this is just an attempt to wrongly characterize my position in a way you can more easily address. Ho hum.

Videos aren't valid debate points… you should really try and express it yourself.

The second showed a pair of awkward, socially backward children, the kind that aren't uncommon at that age. Even learning difficulties aren't uncommon. I knew a few people like growing up, one that I know has gone on to be a successful radio producer. :)


KingRidley, these people have difficulties socially, that is the nature of this problem, why is it wrong to call it a social disorder?


Perhaps that reason is excessive shyness, physical disability, a mild manifestation of ADD, dyslexia etc, it really doesn't matter too much: the thing is that most kids have some barrier of some sort, it's hard for many, many kids to easily navigate these waters, even up until their early 20s in some cases.

Don't be a dick. A sarcastic dick at that.


Alright, I'll refine my post so that maybe you will understand me.

"That you would deny the existence of Aspergers of ADD as a mental disorder confounds me."

That better? Or is my puny little brain still not grasping the concept?


Oh you and your irony. Seriously, you have no right to say that Mister “I'm too smart to debate with you, goodbye!”


Oh come on, even at that age I would have noticed something wrong with them. She's sitting there reminding herself that she shouldn't tell her friends to go to hell.


Because it's not just a social disorder. If they were just unpopular then it would be social. But they are dorky and awkward because of the condition instead of a lack of socialization. They don't know how to behave not because of social ignorance, but because of a mental condition that alters how they perceive the world.


And those kids get over it on their own. That's naturally part of growing up. But with these kids, the awkwardness and dorkiness is not natural. It is caused by the disorder and can be treated. With normal kids all it takes is a confidence boost and positive reinforcement. That doesn't work on these kids because their problems are wired into their heads.


Seriously, hawk is right when he says you're being closed minded, and not just in this thread. Even I'm not like that, that's why I keep asking for proof and evidence. You cannot simply assume that you are right, you have to prove it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
Faliat at 3:48PM, Oct. 13, 2008
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ozoneocean
Faliat
Ozone, the only time I've read Asperger's and Schizophrenia in the same sentence is in your posts.
Well you've obviously not paid much attention here since KingRidley first introduced the two, and my posts answer him. Is that because of your aspergers?
No. It's skimming through previous posts and missing it.

lothar
hahah ! wow . i was actualy starting to think there might , just might be something to this aspers thing until i saw that first video .

No you weren't. Don't deny it.

lothar
so the guy is basicaly saying he has this disorder that cant be proven , its just how he feels , and he gets special treatment and he doesn't want to be cured , he likes having aspers !
HOW is that A PROBLEM ???
It CAN be proven. If it couldn't be proven then why are people still being diagnosed with it? The reason he doesn't want to be cured is a reasonable one. Asperger's has a massive effect on someone's perception of the world, what ultimately makes them THEM. Take that away from them and you take away a massive chunk of their personality too. Not to mention the fact that if you really look into the possible CAUSES of A.S, curing it could result in brain damage in affected individuals.
And simply because it's not a problem for him, doesn't mean it isn't for many others.

lothar
he sounds like one of those conversations you have when your stoned and then you forget it later so you decide to tape yourself and all your revelations.
It's a personal issue of mine that I have something I need to say or ask, and I forget it if I don't get it out of my mouth immediately. As a result I may shout it out without consideration of others. But it's somethign I have a strong drive to do because waiting makes me forget.

lothar
“i like to watch cartoons so that means im like half kid half adult” OMG me 2
“loud noises give me a headache” what a wuss , i sleep with a lawnmower running next to my bed.
“music goes into my brain and make me have different emotions ” Welcome to the human race genius !!!
That's the thing. This guy doesn't KNOW that those are normal things. He hasn't actually considered it.

Personally, I watch cartoons. But I'm really picky. I'm an amateur animator. I can't STAND most of the cartoons he mentions. But that's me not my Asperger's that governs that.

I can't sleep most nights without background noise. I quite often kept my Xbox running at night so that it made the racket it's notorious for. When it got moved downstairs, I now run my PC or a regular fan, but that isn't as good. And I feel most happy in an arcade because it's one of the few places where I can run about like a lunatic, and not be bothered byt he bright lights and loud noises. It's because they're EXPECTED. Unexpected loud noises and flashing lights give me a sensory overload. That often results in me shouting and lashing out. My brain shuts down. I can't think of anything else other than “Get me out of here!”. And I just react to those thoughts with limited control.

That's why I'm capable of blasting Turmion Katilot and Combichrist at full volume through my headphones without batting an eyelid. It actually helps me focus better at moving and doing tasks. Noises distract me too easily. One of the worst for that is ticking clocks. That's why all of the clocks in my room are digital and I have a digital watch. I've done some pretty crazy things to get rid of mechanical clocks from my immediate presence.

lothar
that second video was clearly plain old autism .
Not exactly. The girl behaves more in an A.S manner. The boy however, shows classic High Functioning Autism. I know people with both. And there is a difference in my opinion.

lothar
im just having real trouble figuring out what these people want . is it attention, an easy ride, Do you want to be normal ? cuz maybe you haven't figured this out yet ; THERES NO SUCH THING AS NORMAL ! its a fairy tale concocted by disney.

i dunno , this all just seems like gatica or brave new world to me .
maybe thats the future , life is a disorder - diagnoses replaces character

I didn't get an easy ride when I was diagnosed. Despite it being told to teachers at school only a few actually knew and others chose to ignore it. About two or three actually had some sort of understanding. There were support things “attempted” but they never really came through. As a result of it I was often just sitting in the library with kids that were being put out of class for being bastards. Some of then obviously using A.D.D as an excuse to be that way.

In my first college I was frequently spoken down to by a couple of the tutors. And in my second college I was left out of a trip to Nice because I was a “health and safety risk”. Despite a girl with bone and heart conditions being practically BEGGED to come along. And she couldn't. Plus, one of the tutors when I asked for her help would often change the subject to my condition. As her son was getting tested for Autism. One tutor wasn't even told. And as a result there was an incident in which there was a massive misunderstanding and I ended up getting told off because of her inability to explain the situation clearly.

Yes, I've got my diagnosis. But it's NEVER been an easy ride. I never expected it to be. Because if it took a chance person my aunt was talking with one day for my parents to even CONSIDER that I had it, I knew that not a lot of people would know about it or understand it.

And I know that there's no such thing as a truly normal person. But there's a difference between a general person picked from a random public location and someone with an imparement.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
KingRidley at 5:29PM, Oct. 13, 2008
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Faliat
Personally, I watch cartoons.

And I know that there's no such thing as a truly normal person. But there's a difference between a general person picked from a random public location and someone with an imparement.

Dude tell me you like Courage The Cowardly Dog. I love that show~

Also I agree with that alot. Again, even if you don't believe in normal, there is average.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
Faliat at 5:04AM, Oct. 14, 2008
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KingRidley
Faliat
Personally, I watch cartoons.

And I know that there's no such thing as a truly normal person. But there's a difference between a general person picked from a random public location and someone with an imparement.

Dude tell me you like Courage The Cowardly Dog. I love that show~

Also I agree with that alot. Again, even if you don't believe in normal, there is average.

Yeah, that and Invader Zim, Earthworm Jim, Cow and Chicken, Insektors (British dub Rules), Reboot… With the exception of Zim and Courage I used to watch those shows about ten years ago, too.


Another thing is, when people usually say normal, they mean average. But average is a broader spectrum than normal. Normal has connotations of perfection.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
lothar at 6:02AM, Oct. 14, 2008
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posts: 1,299
joined: 1-3-2006

KingRidley
It is a problem because dorky kids grow out of it, while he probably won't. The best he can do is make it manageable. And again, his case is probably mild.

that's pretty much why i have a problem with this thing ,
somebody who is diagnosed with this is probably far less likely to outgrow it. once you make that leap and separate yourself from everyone else that you consider normal, you are sort of painting yourself into a mental corner. once you get your family and friends convinced that you are somehow abnormal it will be all that much harder to have them treat you like a normal person once these special feelings go away and you want to lead a normal life. it may even be hard to convince yourself .

but

if you don't think its a problem , and it seems to me that the vast majority of aspies don't feel it is a bad thing ; Why are you calling it a “syndrome” ? using words like that automatically imply it is a bad thing.
you don't see people saying they have “gay syndrome” or “artistic syndrome” its sounds ridiculous ! the majority of the symptoms are really quite minor and have more to do with your trouble interacting with society .
and that reminds me of what somebody said about “normal”
something like “theres no normal , but there is average”
what is considered to be average changes over time and from culture to culture. i guarantee that if you transplanted any one of us here into 1900s America we would be diagnosed with having a slew of horrible sounding disfunctions.
100 years ago was a very different world, but things changed , mostly due to individuals who didn't quite fit in . Renegades , Outcasts , Revolutionary thinkers . those people didn't go running to doctors to make them feel better . they knew they were ok and that Society was the one that maybe needed to change a little . so they layed low and put on the act that they were normal , all the while working to slowly bring about a change in the “normals” perceptions . thats pretty much the driving force of social evolution . What would the world be like today if they had diagnosed themselves as being aspies or some other syndrome ? would anyone have taken them seriously ? not likely . who's going to listen to you if at first you doubt yourself ? maybe your close freinds , but the majority of those people you consider Normal are going to blow you off as a weirdo or crazy .
thats what worries me about this trend towards new and increasingly vague disorders : You are buying into the status quo idea of normal and in so doing contributing to the stagnation of society .

meh .. thats all i got to say on this subject
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
KingRidley at 8:11AM, Oct. 14, 2008
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Faliat
Reboot
Hell yes Hexadecimal was the best villain ever~



lothar
somebody who is diagnosed with this is probably far less likely to outgrow it. once you make that leap and separate yourself from everyone else that you consider normal, you are sort of painting yourself into a mental corner.

Why are you calling it a “syndrome” ? using words like that automatically imply it is a bad thing.

you don't see people saying they have “gay syndrome” or “artistic syndrome” its sounds ridiculous !

the majority of the symptoms are really quite minor and have more to do with your trouble interacting with society .

and that reminds me of what somebody said about “normal”
something like “theres no normal , but there is average”

what is considered to be average changes over time and from culture to culture. i guarantee that if you transplanted any one of us here into 1900s America we-

No, not at all. You forget that their symptoms must have been a problem for a while before anyone ever considered taking them to a doctor, and for a long time ‘dorkiness’ probably was to blame. Only after he gets screened to they find the cause of the problem and decide what to do from there. People are not required to stand in front of some evil doctor who takes two minutes to look at them and slap a dysfunction onto their medical records. I'm sure Faliat here can give us a great outline of how long it took them to figure out what was wrong with him.


Because “syndrome” is the word used for conditions like this. It's a medical term with a negative connotation because it is used to describe medical problems.


Because neither of those are syndromes you colossal doofus.


Their troubles interacting with society are there because of aspergers syndrome.


No that's not what I said Mr. short-term memory. I said "even if you don't believe in normal, there is average."


We don't judge average using standards from 100 years ago, thank God. We judge using cultural and scientific knowledge of today.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
lothar at 9:02AM, Oct. 14, 2008
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kingridley
things
uh yea .. it's your life pal, have fun with the aspers syndrome or ADD or whatever it is . whatever works for you i guess

homer simpson
if there's one thing this life has taught me, it's to avoid trouble just say nothing. Don't rock the boat. Don't even get in the boat! Just buy some ice cream and walk around the pier. But don't go in the bathrooms; they're filthy!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Faliat at 10:17AM, Oct. 14, 2008
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Lothar:
I'm my parents' first child. So they didn't know what to expect. As far as they knew I was a just very smart child that cried quite easily. Other family members started blaming my mum for babying me. As a result my parents tried being a bit tougher with me. Didn't do one bit of good. All it did was made me cry more.

Then when I was about eight my mum started working with other kids my age. And she was shocked by how much more emotionally advanced and co-ordinated they were despite me being more intelligent. That was when she first started noting there was something wrong. As she was working in this school she noticed there was a boy that had similar mannerisms to me. He'd been diagnosed with dyspraxia. And she decided to get me tested for that. But when that was over she was just told that I jsut needed grief counselling because of my rabbti being stolen and the death of a grandparent three years earlier. We went there, cried a bit and came out. Nothing changed. My mum was at a loss. My dad was struggling with depression, and for years there was nothing that could be done.

During this time I realised just how difficult I was finding things that jsut came naturally to my peers. I couldn't communicate very well with them and instead preferred to talk to those older or younger than me. There'd be times when I'd just lock myself away in a toilet cubicle in the school playground and just sit thinking.

In high school I had worse skills communicating. This wasn't just because of my A.S. Certain incidents happened in my first few weeks that left me isolated from everybody in general. I was too afraid of talking to anyone to stop and talk to anyone that called my name. Even though most of them were calling my name specifically to distract me so they could smack my face in when I turned to see who it was. In a month I went from an energetic, talkative child to one that couldn't even say a word to anyone.

What was worse was that the teachers were also not noticing my difficulties. There wouldn't be clear enough instructions for me to follow. One would even scream in my face asking me if I was stupid.

Then I was tested a second time. Again by my parents' request (They told me about the traits and I too was convinced). This time it was by the school psychologist. Every couple of weeks I'd be talking to somebody and doing puzzles. After a few months there the psychologist said that there was a chance of me having Asperger's. And that to get a proper diagnosis I was to go to see a psychologist outside the school.
While being tested this time, my mum and I began noticing the extent of my difficulties. My lack of eye contact, my sensitivity to lights and smells and touch… I was shocked when I was given sheets of paper with different faces on them and was asked to describe what emotions they were expressing. I could only get three basic ones, but the rest I was clueless about.

It's noy like I just ran in shouting “MY HEAD DUN FEEL RIGHT!!!” and they stamped the diagnosis on my wrist.
It took a long time. And yet my testing was much more extensive and straining than my dad's and sister's. There's only lasted about three months each. With bigger gaps in between sessions.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
lothar at 6:11AM, Oct. 15, 2008
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i'm intrigued by this aspers thing now. i had never heard about it up until the last time we talked about it here . and ive been in and out of psychiatrists offices a few times . i understand a lot of these feelings being described . i've had some of that stuff since i was in the first grade . and after about 4th grade life was pretty much hellish confusion for the next 15 years. i was soo looking for an answer to why i was soo messed up. but , now , looking back i blame society and i realize there was nothing ever wrong with me .

it sounds like some of this stuff may be genetic. like the not being able to tell peoples emotions thing . that seems to be the most serious aspect of aspers. a lot of the other stuff seems like its the environment you live in.

aspers may be a real syndrome , i guess if enuf people believe they have it , then it is real.

but if you think you have this thing , ask yourself : are you the one with the problem or is it society that is fucked up ?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
ozoneocean at 6:51AM, Oct. 15, 2008
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KingRidley, you're a bit of a rude young fella aren't you. lol!

Faliat. I feel sorry you feel you have a problem. Unfortunately it seems to always make these things a bit worse when they get too much validation.
Which brings me to:
If you guys are 100% against contrary views in this discussion, we might move it into the General Discussion, I'm sorry but in this part of the forum one of the conditions of having subjects posted is that they're subject to examination and scrutiny. If that's not acceptable to you, then either this part of the forums isn't for you, or for this topic. ;)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
KingRidley at 11:23AM, Oct. 15, 2008
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lothar
uh yea .. it's your life pal, have fun with the aspers syndrome or ADD or whatever it is . whatever works for you i guess

You and ozone really suck at debating. And it's ADD. Also by nature and definition it does not work for me, it works very hard against me.


lothar
i've had some of that stuff since i was in the first grade . and after about 4th grade life was pretty much hellish confusion for the next 15 years. i was soo looking for an answer to why i was soo messed up. but , now , looking back i blame society and i realize there was nothing ever wrong with me .


aspers may be a real syndrome , i guess if enuf people believe they have it , then it is real.

but if you think you have this thing , ask yourself : are you the one with the problem or is it society that is fucked up ?

Oh boo hoo, everyone has those problems. They are completely normal, there is nothing different or special about you.

Sarcasm aside it's… good(?) that you've found a way to rationalize your childhood problems.



That and it has symptoms and treatments, but yeah people having a condition usually helps make it real.



Would you blame society for his condition? I don't hold anyone responsible for my ADD. Especially not my parents, even though it got passed to me through them. They can't control that, and neither can society. And society shouldn't be held responsible for people with any kind of disability. It needs to do what it can to help them, yes, but it's rarely ever anyone's fault.

ozoneocean
KingRidley, you're a bit of a rude young fella aren't you. lol!

Faliat. I feel sorry you feel you have a problem. Unfortunately it seems to always make these things a bit worse when they get too much validation.

If you guys are 100% against contrary views in this discussion, we might move it into the General Discussion, I'm sorry but in this part of the forum one of the conditions of having subjects posted is that they're subject to examination and scrutiny. If that's not acceptable to you, then either this part of the forums isn't for you, or for this topic. ;)

Only to people who have done something to deserve it lol!

…We acknowledge problems, and that makes them worse. Brilliant!


You have the right to scrutinize our views. But we have the right to scrutinize your views of our views. That's how debates work, see. We say something, you debate what we say, and then we each provide points and counter points until someone either gives up or is proven totally wrong. We do not take someone's view, simply disagree with it, and then run away claiming that you're too smart to continue or that we can't debate your view. That's bad.

You can keep arguing about this, but when people disagree with you, and they always will, you have to remember that they can. And I'd like to keep debating with you if you'd just pull yourself back down to Earth and behave like everyone else.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
Faliat at 4:23PM, Oct. 15, 2008
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posts: 582
joined: 10-17-2006
lothar
but if you think you have this thing , ask yourself : are you the one with the problem or is it society that is fucked up ?

Both actually. Society has problems, but I'm the one having difficulties working around that issue.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM

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