mlai
@ Midge:

You're being sarcastic or srs?

I was being serious.
I never heard that line before and thought it was clever.

he thing is, science and religion are basically opposites. Science deals with the quantifiable, things that can be measure and observed directly or indirectly. Science tries to prove or disprove things in order to understand the world around us.

Religion deals with things that CAN'T be measure. Religion deals with faith, with things that cannot be measured or observed, and things which cannot be proven or disproven. Religion is unquantifiable.

Therefore, trying to put religion and science together is impossible. Now if you go and find some way of looking at someone's soul, then we'll talk. Until then, let science be science and stop trying to Jesus it up.

Science deals with the quantifiable. The physical in other words. That which can be seen, heard, smelled, touched, and tasted. Yes. Science tries to prove and explain the world around us. It tries.

Same thing as religion. Religion tries to explain things around us.

Science explains the physical but ignores the spiritual. Religion explains the spiritual but tends to overlook the physical.

I was a skeptic about the spiritual until I felt it for myself. I was an atheist for a brief period of time after getting fed up with praying to God and God not answering my prayers. God does not exist!!!

My experience as an atheist - it wasnt a good experience. I felt this overwhelming sense of emptiness inside me. Depression and suicidal, self-harming thoughts increased. Anti-depressants only solved it temporarily but it kept coming and coming and coming back. You see, that is my spirit trying to send me a wakeup call. It is telling me HELLO!!! I AM HERE!!! STOP IGNORING ME!!!. It is totally different from the portrayals of mental telepathy in the movies. You just instantaneously grasp the information.

The moment I turned back to God, this time in a detatched state. Detached from the repetitive organized religion (Catholicism has alot of repetitive stuff no wonder people get turned off). As in just sitting in the church and meditating. Just sincerely praying and talking to Jesus. While I used to pray for this and that, the ‘last chance’ I gave God is the sincere prayer to give me strength.

And there. Almost like magic, depression is GONE AWAY! RELIGION HAS SUCCEEDED WHERE SCIENCE HAS FAILED!

There are other things in my life that can prove the existence of spiritual force. I've also experimented with meditation. And if I'm at my most relaxed, concentrated state, I've caused the pillows around me as well as the bed to vibrate. It terrified me at first but I saw it with my own eyes. The pillows and bed are vibrating!!!

That is what done it. Seeing it happen in front of me!!!

I could only imagine the enlightenment that will happen if science and religion would stop bickering with each other. Maybe there could be a scientific.. I mean… NEW discoveries of cures to diseases.

There are legitimate psychic surgeons out there. I believe those healing techniques are done using a combined knowledge of the scientific and spiritual.

And there are cases where people mysteriously heal because of praying to God or a whole bunch of people praying for them.

They could be healed because of an innate ability of the human spirit to do it.

Now that is knowledge that would eliminate most of the diseases of this planet. The unification of the scientific and spiritual/religious.

However, those in power definitely REFUSE to go into that area because they wanna maintain a grip on power. They wanna contain the human population in a state of enslavement.


Btw dude, just reading your posts I can already see the anger and frustration you have. Believe in the spiritual for a change. Sincere belief. Try it and see for yourself.

Keep an open mind and you will find the truth.

bongotezz
i wonder why they never predict the lotto numbers? oh wait. i know why. it's all fake.

You know what's funny? =D
someone actually predicted the lottery numbers, and gave them to my father once.
the numbers won, but my father never actually put in the numbers.
It must have been a bummer for the lady who gave them to him.

kyupol

Honestly Kyupol, I'm just going to say it straight up. You're crazy. GET HELP.

Religion deals with the spiritual, which is not quantifiable. Saying it is is either lies or insanity.

And then you pull in conspiracy theories? And you start to claim that there are psychic doctors?

You really do need to get back on whatever meds you were on. You might have been sad, but at least you weren't BATSHIT FUCKING INSANE.

kyupol
There are other things in my life that can prove the existence of spiritual force. I've also experimented with meditation. And if I'm at my most relaxed, concentrated state, I've caused the pillows around me as well as the bed to vibrate. It terrified me at first but I saw it with my own eyes. The pillows and bed are vibrating!!!

That is what done it. Seeing it happen in front of me!!!

If you can really do this (which I sincerely doubt), go get a million dollars from the JREF challenge. Until then, I don't want to hear about how you've “proven” anything.

kyupol
There are legitimate psychic surgeons out there.

No, there are not. It is a scam that takes advantage of desperate people in their hour of need, and those bastards should be locked up. People with real diseases forgo actual treatment and believe they are “cured” by these tricksters, only to die later when they realize too late that they were never cured at all.

kyupol
My experience as an atheist - it wasnt a good experience. I felt this overwhelming sense of emptiness inside me. Depression and suicidal, self-harming thoughts increased. Anti-depressants only solved it temporarily but it kept coming and coming and coming back. You see, that is my spirit trying to send me a wakeup call. It is telling me HELLO!!! I AM HERE!!! STOP IGNORING ME!!!. It is totally different from the portrayals of mental telepathy in the movies. You just instantaneously grasp the information.

that's funny cause i've had the exact opposite experience. my family always went to church and sunday school. it depressed the hell out of me and never made any sense. i guess some people like answers and some people like proof. religion doesn't offer any proof only blind acceptance.

GET HELP

I always get help. Because I am not perfect.

But if you are referring to psychiatric help, I dont think I need it. I had faith in the psychiatric system before. But it failed to cure my pain. My depression and suicidal thoughts as of this moment are NON-EXISTENT because of the alternative path I took.

I'm telling you. In a depressed state I felt very weak and very old. Science already arrived at a conclusion that mental health affects physical health. Depression can lead to other diseases. That is scientifically proven.

I am not here to say science is wrong. Like what I said earlier, no system is perfect. You are right that science has succeeded in some places where religion has failed. Same holds true vice versa.

That is most importantly why I stress the unification of science and religion. Its like the idea of mixed martial arts (proven in UFC). To be a complete fighter, one must be good in striking, ground fighting, take downs, and weapons.

The same holds true in real life. Conventional religious and scientific systems should be mixed together. Because all of them have barriers erected around them.

And who erects the barriers? Who will benefit from a population that has not attained true freedom?

Knowledge is power.

And you start to claim that there are psychic doctors?

I agree with you about the large amount of fakes out there.

But in the Philippines (and perhaps elsewhere), there are legit ones. Remember, if you study ancient Filipino history, we were setup pretty much like the ancient Greek city states.

Further reading will let you know what kind of punishment awaits liars during those days. Death. No not just death but a slow and painful one. Like getting tied to a tree as the ants eat you little by little.

If they are all fake, then the practice wouldn't have survived to this day. It was during the Christianization of the Spanish conquistadores that demonized that practice. Psychic surgeons, hilots (a healer but cannot do psychic surgery), and even the martial arts were labeled as satanic practices.

Yes the Spanish committed human rights abuses (forced labor, racial discrimination, ubsurdly high taxes and low wages) and corrupted religion into a money-making business. Forcing alot of Filipinos to be an atheist or go back to their ancient religions.

THAT IS WHY ANY RELIGION THAT FORCES YOU TO GIVE MONEY IS FALSE!!! IN A LEGITIMATE CHURCH, YOUR INTELLECT AND FREE WILL IS RESPECTED. SHAMING LANGUAGE IS PART OF FORCING.

that's funny cause i've had the exact opposite experience. my family always went to church and sunday school. it depressed the hell out of me and never made any sense. i guess some people like answers and some people like proof. religion doesn't offer any proof only blind acceptance.

That means you are NOT an idiot who can be brainwashed by repeated rituals. Jesus came to earth and ‘died’ on the cross. Many people thought that was totally cool and decided to worship him and believe he is the son of God.

However as the years went by, the fallen human nature took over. And turned Christianity into a corrupt institution in the middle ages. The church leaders got filthy rich… while the masses were brainwashed with unending threats of eternal damnation if they did not follow their orders (of course packaged as the ‘word of God’).

The fall into atheism IMO is like your first step. But I suggest you pray to God OUTSIDE those prescribed rituals.

Kyupol, I really think you need to go to a psychiatrist. You can keep believing in Jesus or whatever, but you DO need some kind of help. You're saying some things that are completely insane.

I'm saying this for your own good.

Get help.

They found BigFoot on mars…how will this effect my Zodiac Reading?

Lord Shplane
Kyupol, I really think you need to go to a psychiatrist. You can keep believing in Jesus or whatever, but you DO need some kind of help. You're saying some things that are completely insane.

I'm saying this for your own good.

Get help.

Why will I go to a doctor if I'm not sick? If I'm perfectly fine? Why will I tie down the doctor if there are more patients out there who are in the depressive state? You know, people losing jobs, losing family through divorce or death, teenagers who get bullied and feel like shooting up the school, the lonely senior, and many others.

Insane? What is insane?

Thats the problem I see that reeks of possible mind-control/brainwashing.

If someone has a thought pattern that deviates from the norm, he/she needs psychiatric help. Scary thought isnt it. Reminds me of a few progressive countries in Earth's history such as the Soviet Union, North Korea, The Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, Medieval Europe, etc.

The thing about astrology is that it presents a blueprint - potential, as it were. People change based on their environment, but they can be predisposed to a certain train of thought or quality.

Same with fortunetelling - time passing gives more opportunities to change the future. All a “psychic” can do (if they're actually trying) is show potentials and possibilities. Not everything is set in stone though, and most things are subject to change. A good fortuneteller will help you look for things you may have overlooked, and show you what has the best chance of happening if you continue down a road or contemplate a different one, but nothing is exact and that's something that many people overlook.

IMO, of course.

If anyone ever feels the need to annoy an astrologer, talking about Ophiuchus is a good first step. It's a constellation next to Scorpio that the Sun briefly wanders through and astrologers tend not to mention it, as it's a bit of a party pooper.

I feel that if I attempt to piss off an astrologer, they'll suddenly predict my slow, painful and highly entertaining death. Purely coincidentally, of course. >,>
I honestly don't believe in that sort of thing, though I'm also of the opinion that belief does not necessitate existence. Similarly, I don't think you have to believe in something for it to exist; if it's there, it's there, regardless of whether you think it is or not.

A few years back, I remembered sneezing a lot throughout the day in the office for no apparent reason. When I get back home, I read the newspaper horoscope and it said my star sign alignment would cause me to sneeze a lot.

Pure coincidence or incredibly accurate prediction?

Eunice P
A few years back, I remembered sneezing a lot throughout the day in the office for no apparent reason. When I get back home, I read the newspaper horoscope and it said my star sign alignment would cause me to sneeze a lot.

Pure coincidence or incredibly accurate prediction?

Well, unless everyone else on earth with the same zodiac horoscope was sneezing a lot too, I'd say it was coincidence. Was one twelfth of the Earth's population sneezing that day?

kyupol

No, I'm saying you need to get some fucking medication before you go even FARTHER off the deep end.

Psychic doctors? Please, you NEED to get something done. I'm completely serious here. Go talk to a psychiatrist. Conspiracy theories? And now you're claiming that I'm BRAINWASHED?

Please man, talk to a doctor.

Lord Shplane

kyupol

No, I'm saying you need to get some fucking medication before you go even FARTHER off the deep end.

Psychic doctors? Please, you NEED to get something done. I'm completely serious here. Go talk to a psychiatrist. Conspiracy theories? And now you're claiming that I'm BRAINWASHED?

Please man, talk to a doctor.

Onlymakingitworsecat is only making it worse!

OMFG Ophiuchus = Serpentarius = 13th Zodiac = Secret 13th Boss in Final Fantasy Tactics!!

I so thought Square made it all up, I was like "WTF secret boss is supposed to be the 13th zodiac wtf kinda bogus shit is that?" New love for FFT! \o/

Edit: Damn I narrowly missed being born in Serpentarius. That would've been so cool!

Klarga

Lord Shplane

kyupol

No, I'm saying you need to get some fucking medication before you go even FARTHER off the deep end.

Psychic doctors? Please, you NEED to get something done. I'm completely serious here. Go talk to a psychiatrist. Conspiracy theories? And now you're claiming that I'm BRAINWASHED?

Please man, talk to a doctor.

Onlymakingitworsecat is only making it worse!

True, true.

Merrywhite Jenkins
I feel that if I attempt to piss off an astrologer, they'll suddenly predict my slow, painful and highly entertaining death. Purely coincidentally, of course. >,>
I honestly don't believe in that sort of thing, though I'm also of the opinion that belief does not necessitate existence. Similarly, I don't think you have to believe in something for it to exist; if it's there, it's there, regardless of whether you think it is or not.

I…the great and wise Miss Mishi -hime….
forsee!

that you, peter… will be adored and huggled by not one, but two ~!
two lovely fangirls, even if they are not your own fangirls! <3

I have spoken!

Lots of responses here. I'll start with Eunice, because I like Eunice.

Eunice P
A few years back, I remembered sneezing a lot throughout the day in the office for no apparent reason. When I get back home, I read the newspaper horoscope and it said my star sign alignment would cause me to sneeze a lot.

Pure coincidence or incredibly accurate prediction?

That's strangely specific for a horoscope. Are you sure it said that? It seems more likely that a horoscope would say something more vague, such as saying that you'd have an ailment. Horoscopes steer clear of specifics, such as sneezing. The vagueness is so that the so-called forcast could apply to anything.

Besides, what did the horoscope say the next day? See, what astrology tries to do is to throw crap at the wall to see what sticks. People are amazed by the one day that the horoscope actually got something right, and yet they don't seem to even bat an eye on all the other days of the year when the horoscope doesn't apply at all.

Try opening the horoscope sections of two different newspapers and examine them carefully. Carl Sagan did this once in an episode of Cosmos. He had one paper telling Libras to accept compromise while the other said to be more demanding. These two papers were published in the same city ond the same day, saying completely opposite things.

kyupol
Insane? What is insane?

Thats the problem I see that reeks of possible mind-control/brainwashing.

If someone has a thought pattern that deviates from the norm, he/she needs psychiatric help. Scary thought isnt it. Reminds me of a few progressive countries in Earth's history such as the Soviet Union, North Korea, The Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, Medieval Europe, etc.

What the hell are you talking about? Do you even know what sanity is? Sanity is not a relative thing that changes depending on your social environment. It has nothing to do with conforming with or deviating from “the norm”. Rather, sanity is your ability to comprehend the real world. Sanity is not something that is determined by authority.

kyupol
I am not here to say science is wrong. Like what I said earlier, no system is perfect. You are right that science has succeeded in some places where religion has failed. Same holds true vice versa.

Says who?!

What has science failed at that religions succeeds? Wait, I think I have the answer to that…

kyupol
Science explains the physical but ignores the spiritual.

Oh, now I get it. Science fails, because it ignores the spiritual world, which you think is real.

kyupol
My experience as an atheist - it wasnt a good experience. I felt this overwhelming sense of emptiness inside me. Depression and suicidal, self-harming thoughts increased. Anti-depressants only solved it temporarily but it kept coming and coming and coming back. You see, that is my spirit trying to send me a wakeup call. It is telling me HELLO!!! I AM HERE!!! STOP IGNORING ME!!!. It is totally different from the portrayals of mental telepathy in the movies. You just instantaneously grasp the information.

Oh, rubbish! And how did you determine this? Because you started feeling better the moment you turned back to God? Oh wait, let's read your own words…

kyupol
The moment I turned back to God, this time in a detatched state. Detached from the repetitive organized religion (Catholicism has alot of repetitive stuff no wonder people get turned off).

No, that is your caricature of other people who've left the faith. For me, I never even went to church when I was a kid. I didn't have boring sermons to sit through. My family was, for all intents and purposes, universalist.

My rejection of faith came from simply looking around and seeing religion as something that assumes its own importance and factuality without actually earning it. It was not the beligerance of some priest that drove me away, but rather the utter silence of it all.

kyupol
As in just sitting in the church and meditating. Just sincerely praying and talking to Jesus. While I used to pray for this and that, the ‘last chance’ I gave God is the sincere prayer to give me strength.

And there. Almost like magic, depression is GONE AWAY! RELIGION HAS SUCCEEDED WHERE SCIENCE HAS FAILED!

…Because it makes you feel good to believe that God answered your prayer. I'm sorry, but believing in things that make us feel good does not make them so. This is not a success for religion. This is a failure of your ability to tell the difference between what you want to be true and what is actually true.

And how did science fail here? Because you expected something from prescription drugs that they're not actually intended to do? Look, drugs are there for treatment. They're not magic cures. To get through depression, you need to actually work out your problems with a human being. Pills get you in the door, but you need a person to walk with you.

The reason a lot of people here are telling you to get help is because you've not actually done anything to help yourself. You've described a state of desparity which you've allegedly dealt with by praying to something that you believe to be real.

I don't know what you expected from atheism. Being an atheist is not the most cheerful thing in the world, but it's not supposed to be. There are depressing things about reality that we humans have to cope with every day. The finite nature of life is something that I think about all the time. I can't wish it away, because disconnecting myself from reality is not healthy.

My father died last year, and I would love to believe that he's still out there. I would be filled with as much joy as you've experienced if I thought for a moment that he has ascended somewhere above the mortal plane and was looking down upon me. He was my best friend, and losing him was heartbreaking. I would love to believe that I could see him again one day.

But alas, believing in things that make us feel good does not make them so. In fact, believing in things that are nonsense can actually be harmful, such as believing in faith healers or psychic surgeons when you actually require a real doctor.

Fenn

kyupol
There are legitimate psychic surgeons out there.

No, there are not. It is a scam that takes advantage of desperate people in their hour of need, and those bastards should be locked up. People with real diseases forgo actual treatment and believe they are “cured” by these tricksters, only to die later when they realize too late that they were never cured at all.

He seems to think that the “good” psychic surgeons are getting a bad rap due to all the bad ones out there, and that the wholesale rejection of psychic surgery is akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

But for me, it's not merely the fact that a lot of psychic surgeons are proven frauds. It's actually that NONE of them have even remotely proven that what they do actually works.

Psychic surgery is parlor-room-level misdirection. James Randi has actually performed such “operations” on stage, and he reveals, quite convincingly, how these things are done.

But what about the people who've been saved by psychic surgery? Simple, really. They were never sick. Try finding one case where a terminally ill person was saved by a psychic surgeon. You won't find one.

mlai
OMFG Ophiuchus = Serpentarius = 13th Zodiac = Secret 13th Boss in Final Fantasy Tactics!!

I so thought Square made it all up, I was like "WTF secret boss is supposed to be the 13th zodiac wtf kinda bogus shit is that?" New love for FFT! \o/

Edit: Damn I narrowly missed being born in Serpentarius. That would've been so cool!

People who fall under the Serpentarius sign generally don't believe in astrology. I happen to be Serpentarius, so that probably explains a lot.

Someone
People who fall under the Serpentarius sign generally don't believe in astrology. I happen to be Serpentarius, so that probably explains a lot.

I'd be all cynical too if my patron star system was kicked out of the club. I'd be all like "****ing CRABS are in the club but I ain't?! I'm holding mother****ing SNAKES!!!"

Astrology actually makes me laugh my ass off. Sometimes, for a good a laugh, at the end of the day I'll check the Active Channel on my DirectTV and go to the astrology readings.

My god they are always so far off. I think that once in a hundred it was somewhat accurate. Then there was the time it told my step-father that people who expect him to be politically correct and butter the truth should watch out, because he's brutally honest to the point of making people angry. We couldn't stop laugh, because that's more me than him or my mother.

Try checking them after the day is over. I mean, if they're going to be right, it wouldn't matter when you checked it for that day. The reading should only validate what happened in the day, instead of making you look for it.

Long story short? It's good for a laugh, but nothing more. Don't let it run your life or take it seriously, because it's just a money making ploy.

skoolmunkee
I've seen that book :) I remember the entry for my birthday being half right and half wrong. So, I wasn't too impressed, but I WAS entertained.

So to me, astrology is all about entertainment.

My wife has/had that and another book by the same people on Relationships. I don't perscribe to it as fact, but they are amusing and I've found them to be great resources for writing if you're having a hard time fleshing out a character.

Kyupol

Man… every time I think I've read his most outlandish post ever, he just comes back with more… He's like a bottomless pit of… something.

He's like a sponge saturated in misinformation and superstition. (and it all collects in that well… :/ )

Fortune cookies are also pretty freaky. Just the other day, I picked up one that said “You're going to die alone and there's nothing you can do about it.” I'm starting to wonder how people make those things so accurate…

UltimaXG2
Fortune cookies are also pretty freaky. Just the other day, I picked up one that said “You're going to die alone and there's nothing you can do about it.” I'm starting to wonder how people make those things so accurate…

Bull. No fortune cookie says that. Unless your friends slipped you a joke cookie.

WOW!
A spammer must have resurrected this? HAHA!

The bastards comment on something, I delete them and their comment disappears but the old thread still stays up.



Ah well, Astrology is meaningless. Sorry. It's a fun diversion but just like personality tests it doesn't tell you anything about yourself, you just think it applies to you because what it says is general enough, or can be interpreted to mean anything.
Like Nostrodamas, it's bullshit.

WOW the bot chose a doozy of a contentious topic to raise from the dead!
The thing about astrology is, it casts a wide net so people look at the collection of somewhat contradictory qualifiers and say “That's mostly me!”
It's dependent on a lot of confirmation bias. A fun diversion, but nothing people should start seriously basing their life decisions on.

Ridiculous factoid– a certain famous actor's mom apparently has a business where she reads people's butts the way people read head lumps (I am dead serious this is a thing) that she calls, get this, “rump-ology”. Which is a shame she didn't go for the low hanging fruit with that name, because there's no real risk of nobody taking her seriously as a credible soothsayer, haahaaa….

The now defunct Regretsy is how I learned of this particular “craft” (and no kidding I almost dyslexia typed out “fart” instead!) but if you're not easily offended by super crude humor, the archive can be found on the Wayback Machine (and this case documented in the “Whimsicle” category, page 2).

(I'm not really a fan of picking on people in general but some of the stuff people sell on Etsy really makes you go “huh”.)

You know this was one of the first threads I read way back when I first started lurking. Didn't comment because someone quoted James Randi so no comment was required from me.

Numerous studies have proven time and again that the description are so general and so random that sign and position of planets are totally immaterial. Even worse when NASA released the updated zodiac based on where the stars are now as opposed to several thousand years ago.

It's pure entertainment and anything can mean anything because it is really all meaningless. My favorite study is when they present the birth information of a mass murderer and the horoscope comes back that the individual is a friendly, nice guy.

If a horoscope comes true it is selective evidence (one only sees what agrees with a prediction and ignores all the misses) or a self fulfilling prophecy. You act out what the horoscope forecast.

Oh people are so gullible if only I could come up with a foolproof scam. 😂