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kingofsnake at 1:40PM, April 5, 2010
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I'm not arguing that you should LOVE it. I don't even LOVE it. I'm arguing that the story structure, conflict, and character development in the movie were done excellently.

When I want to know if a book is good the question is “Is the book written well?” first and “What is your opinion of the book?” second.

Saying something isn't good just because you don't like it is myopic.

If you're going to gloss over the objective quality of the film and focus only on your subjective response to it, it doesn't impinge anyone's taste in movies, it only impinges your objective credibility

I don't mean to direct this totally at you Hawk. But I just get a little annoyed when people judge films more on preconceptions that affect their opinions and less on the merit of the work itself.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
Faliat at 6:13AM, May 4, 2010
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Got the blu ray as a late birthday present and watched it on friday wih my dad. My mum and sister had to go to bed halfway through the movie but watched the rest on saturday.

My dad thought it was okay at first. Seems to have grown on him since his first viewing just like it did with me.

My mum and sister thought it was fantastic straight away. My sister even classes it as one of the best movies she's ever seen.
Might have something to do with the fact that the sci-fi in it wasn't too hard. The plot and other elements were easy to understand for them and they didn't have to think about all the science.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
EssayBee at 10:31AM, May 4, 2010
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Faliat
Might have something to do with the fact that the sci-fi in it wasn't too hard. The plot and other elements were easy to understand for them and they didn't have to think about all the science.

It's also a love story in which the man totally transforms to be with the gal. It's sort of the ultimate female wish fulfillment. Kind of a variation of the bad boy turns over a new leaf out of love for his gal–or another version of the class-crossed lovers of Titanic.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:22PM
Hawk at 1:05PM, May 4, 2010
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EssayBee
It's also a love story in which the man totally transforms to be with the gal. It's sort of the ultimate female wish fulfillment. Kind of a variation of the bad boy turns over a new leaf out of love for his gal–or another version of the class-crossed lovers of Titanic.

HOLY COW, I never picked up on that while watching it, but you're right. It's like a guaranteed girl-pleasing gimmick embedded in a sci-fi action movie!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 11:31AM, May 5, 2010
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This is the eco-generation's version of The Robe or The Ten Commandments no more and no less.

Both were special effects driven epic heavy handedly spelling out the morals that were popular in Hollywood and the USA at the time with all the cheese and bluster that go into making an epic like that. Today these are hammy “sword and sandal” classics but the special effects make people laugh even the Christians who are these movies only serious audience now.

In a few short year Avatar will be the same way. An annual tradition for environmentalists and maybe few conservationists to watch on arbor day and for their children to laugh at while everyone else moves onto the next big thing whatever that maybe. Old fans will firmly defend the movie as a classic they paid good money for back in the day with a timeless story while new watchers will wonder why anyone would take the movie seriously.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
ImaginaryGirl at 12:40PM, May 5, 2010
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I enjoyed it well enough. It's got its problems, of course. The Na'vi are awfully one dimensional as characters, hearkening back to the noble savage stereotype…but many of the human characters were about as one dimensional. I did like Weaver's character, though. I nice change from the ‘ruthless scientist who will do anything in the name of SCIENCE!’ that seems to abound in movies like this. The plot wasn't much, but Cameron tends to stick to simple plots in all his movies. The world was gorgeous…that and the special effects were obviously the main emphasis, and they did it marvelously. They really nailed facial expressions, and I loved the designs of the creatures in that world. I also found the idea of an entire ecosystem interconnected through a neural interface to be fascinating.

I actually look forward to seeing it in 2D. I think I'll pick up more. Unfortunately, long 3D movies give me headaches.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:57PM
korosu at 10:27AM, May 10, 2010
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Hawk
HOLY COW, I never picked up on that while watching it, but you're right. It's like a guaranteed girl-pleasing gimmick embedded in a sci-fi action movie!
Not really; I didn't catch that either while watching it. :/

Personally, while I thought the movie was entertaining enough, I thought it was was highly overrated and not really worth all the hubbub. (No offense to James Cameron; Titanic is, sadly, still one of my biggest guilty pleasures.) The overplayed plot aside, I do get tired of movies that rely so much on CGI that the whole movie starts to look artificial.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:21PM
Hawk at 11:34AM, May 10, 2010
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korosu
Not really; I didn't catch that either while watching it. :/

Maybe the fact that you didn't notice it means it was really effective!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
Product Placement at 12:12PM, May 10, 2010
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I'm half tempted now to suggest that we recycle this thread and us it as a discussion for the other Avatar movie that's coming out in few months (The last Airbender).
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:52PM
I Am The 1337 Master at 3:47PM, May 10, 2010
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because it was brought to the top I can say this!


MPAA: Rated PG-13 for intense epic battle sequences and warfare, sensuality, language and some smoking.

I think that's hilarious.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:54PM
Hakoshen at 1:13PM, May 12, 2010
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A. I haven't seen a movie in the past 10 years that had a plot that genuinely shocked, surprised or amazed me. It's a simple tennent of story telling; you need a hero, a conflict, and a resolution. Everything else is re-hashing of ideas told since the dawn of time or at least since the true dawn of film. Hell, you could say that this movie is nearly every Miyazaki movie ever made. Man crosses indigineous state, nature/indiginous people fight back, hero forced to adapt to indigineous life, goes native, saves the day. Seen it a million times. If we're going to say lack of original or surprising plot is a deal-breaker then why bother watching anything? It's like the plot of a horror movie. You don't watch it to see who lives and who dies because you know of the original victims, at least half will die. I make this argument for every movie that ever gets released when people complain about the plot and they still do it.

B. Visuals. I don't see what the problem with CG is. There's no way that the movie could have had half the impact it did if not for the heavy use of CG, and it was good CG. The world looked lived in and believable, as compared to Star Wars episodes 1-3, which had me, a man who loves all things StarWars admittedly ashamed and disappointed.

C. Unobtanium. Would you rather palladium? Orichalcum? Adamantium? Gundanium? Scientists aren't cool and they're not popular; they come up with names probably based off of what book is on their desk. I mean, there's a freaking Einsteinium and Californium, so I didn't find it to be a turn off



This is a movie that's supposed to make you say “Oh crap that action sequence was cool! Or that visual effect was beautiful!” As others have so eloquently said, a feast/orgasm for the eyes. I saw it in a regular, crap theater not suited for 300 people and I loved it. I bought the blu-ray (but haven't watched it) as well.



But then again, I have a high tolerance for crap. I talk smack about it now, but I enjoyed watching Episode III.

/thread participation
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
Hawk at 3:20PM, May 12, 2010
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Hakoshen
A. I haven't seen a movie in the past 10 years that had a plot that genuinely shocked, surprised or amazed me. It's a simple tennent of story telling; you need a hero, a conflict, and a resolution. Everything else is re-hashing of ideas told since the dawn of time or at least since the true dawn of film. Hell, you could say that this movie is nearly every Miyazaki movie ever made. Man crosses indigineous state, nature/indiginous people fight back, hero forced to adapt to indigineous life, goes native, saves the day. Seen it a million times. If we're going to say lack of original or surprising plot is a deal-breaker then why bother watching anything? It's like the plot of a horror movie. You don't watch it to see who lives and who dies because you know of the original victims, at least half will die. I make this argument for every movie that ever gets released when people complain about the plot and they still do it.

“There are no original stories” is a poor defense for a tired and lackluster story. Obviously nobody expects ENTIRELY new stories, otherwise they would feel alienated. But while Miyazaki often uses familiar and related themes, he knows how to vary them enough and fill in the cracks with fresh content and create an overall fresh movie. He still gives us surprises.

Even if we were to settle for an unoriginal story, there are numerous ways the Avatar plot could have been improved. One of the biggest problems I see is that we were led to sympathize with the Na'vi right off the bat. Their spears and arrows lodged harmlessly in the treads of massive, unaffected war vehicles told us that Humans were vastly overwhelming the Na'vi with firepower. And nearly every impression we were given of the race when they were introduced was that of a gentle, nature-loving and empathic race just trying to defend its home. Because of this, we never wonder where Jake Sully's loyalties should lie, we just think “How long before Jake realizes what's painfully obvious to us and joins the Na'vi?” Colonel Quaritch's selfish and evil nature didn't help this one bit.

A better way to do the story would have been to give us reasonable suspicion of the Na'vi. Make us think they're meaner and more dangerous than they really are, then let them win the audience over at the same time they're winning Jake over.

But I've basically said my piece and it's obvious I'm in the minority. But I thought this was at least one way to make the story better.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
Hakoshen at 7:21AM, May 13, 2010
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I apologize it if seemed I was confronting you (because I wasn't, I skipped half the thread), it's just every time I see talk about this movie or any other, someone is complaining about the plot being dull and predictable. I'm not defending the plot either. It was unspectacular. But taking a left turn instead of a right would just take us from one trope to another. T.V. Tropes has ruined my life.

And, to be honest, I'm amazed anyone replied at all. Normally when I get to these threads they're long dead XD .
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
Rich at 1:48AM, May 18, 2010
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Saw this movie the day it came out on DVD. I've got to say that it's among the most awful movies I've ever seen and James Cameron should be completely ashamed of having his name attached to it. The movie consistently pulls cheap tricks to try and make the viewer feel bad for the navi and their shitty world filled with the most infuriatingly nonsensical flora and fauna ever concieved and gives us some of the most unlikeable characters ever placed on screen.

The human beings are entirely justified in the destruction of the navi and their entire damned world to get the unobtanium as it is made pretty clear that it's a room temperature superconductor. THEY ACTUALLY NEED IT IN ORDER TO CONTINUE INTERSTELLAR TRAVEL. It is NEEDED FOR THEIR SURVIVAL and we are supposed to feel bad for these bunch of ugly blue savages who are completely unwilling to permit the human beings access to unobtanium.

Fuck the na'vi. Them losing one damned tree and a couple hundred of their people is a small price to pay for the continued prosperity and survival of the human race and anyone willing to feel sympathy for filthy backwards savages who are actively doing things that could bring about the end of human space travel is a naive and incompetent fool.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:07PM
mlai at 4:53AM, May 18, 2010
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Well said, citizen. The Emperor surely approves of your zeal and devotion.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 8:17AM, May 18, 2010
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mlai

Well said, citizen. The Emperor surely approves of your zeal and devotion.

Indeed the Emperor does. Carry on citizen.



Let the impure bow down before our guns

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
Dark Pascual at 10:33AM, May 18, 2010
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MILES QUARITCH, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!!!

I saw the movie a few days ago (Didn't interested me once I heard that Airbending wasn't involved…)

It was OK, the effects are pretty good, but it looked like a videogame cut-scene at times. The action is solid and the story WAS kinda simple, but I honestly just watched because of the cool mechs…

However, there WAS potential to tell a rather complex story if Cameron would have decide to do something beyond “Western Civilization=bad, native way of life=good” rhetoric that some people love so much (Honestly, I think that the thing is a little bit more difficult…)

I have to agree that I felt more sympathy for the Marines than the Na'vis…

Sorry, but the overgrown smurfs have all the character traits that make Elfs almost insufferable.

Besides, I grew up with 80's action movies, and they expect me to root AGAINST a character like Quaritch? Yeah, right…
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:07PM
Product Placement at 10:35AM, May 18, 2010
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Hawk
Even if we were to settle for an unoriginal story, there are numerous ways the Avatar plot could have been improved. One of the biggest problems I see is that we were led to sympathize with the Na'vi right off the bat. Their spears and arrows lodged harmlessly in the treads of massive, unaffected war vehicles told us that Humans were vastly overwhelming the Na'vi with firepower. And nearly every impression we were given of the race when they were introduced was that of a gentle, nature-loving and empathic race just trying to defend its home. Because of this, we never wonder where Jake Sully's loyalties should lie, we just think “How long before Jake realizes what's painfully obvious to us and joins the Na'vi?” Colonel Quaritch's selfish and evil nature didn't help this one bit.

A better way to do the story would have been to give us reasonable suspicion of the Na'vi. Make us think they're meaner and more dangerous than they really are, then let them win the audience over at the same time they're winning Jake over.
I agree. This would have improved the story.
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:52PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 1:18PM, May 18, 2010
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Dark Pascual
MILES QUARITCH, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!!!

I saw the movie a few days ago…..

Heracy and blasphemy!

There is no such Miles Quaritch (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM) movie!

If only there were one though, then we could talk about that instead of Avatar!

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM

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