Debate and Discussion

Becoming part of the corporate culture.
ozoneocean at 4:17AM, May 9, 2008
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I always wondered about this, mostly from the outside… how can normal people who're employed by a business suddenly start to think the same way as others employed by it? They take on aspects of that culture and make it their own. It's objectives and outlook, become their objectives and outlook.

Quite apart from the fact that they tend to look and dress the same… But that's a smaller thing :)

It's like patriotist nationalism in miniature.People do it with sporting teams as well.
And example I noticed here: When the Aussie rules club “the Eagles” were formed here in 1988, everyone suddenly became an Eagles supporter, because it was their only local AFL team. When the second AFL team (the Dockers) was formed and based in the south of the city, all the people there suddenly switched over to them and became ardent supporters.

I'm sure that's a part of it. That'd tend to indicate to me that our tribal/heard/pack tendencies run very deep indeed. And I think that's probably the reason. What do you think?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
StaceyMontgomery at 5:28AM, May 9, 2008
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I think you are right. The human need to identify with a tribe/herd/pack/nation is very deep.

Now, deep human needs are not good or bad - but they can lead us in good or bad directions. The trick is to be aware of ourselves - do I really care so much about this candidate/issue/bit of trivia/fashion/whatever/ Or is this me needing to identify as part of a certain group?

Because it's always good to be self-aware. And it''s always bad to underestimate our needs.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
bravo1102 at 11:49AM, May 9, 2008
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It's that survival instinct. A group is better able to survive than the individual. Also it's really hard for an individual to reproduce.

Fortunately there are also leaders who can guide the sheeple to go where they need to go. They're usually the self-aware types.

Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.

I want to be an individual just like everyone else.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:32AM
mapaghimagsik at 6:24PM, May 11, 2008
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I think its about people wanting to get along. Most of us will avoid conflict unless there's a good reason.

Leaning the culture of your company will help things flow and also helps you get things done. It also helps you advance, which is yet another tool for people to fulfill their ambitions, feel a sense of accomplishment, make money – you know, generally be successful.

I think people who are able to bring in outside influences and insert them into the corporate culture without too much conflict have a real talent, and tend to be successful at the companies they work at.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Roguehill at 9:25AM, May 30, 2008
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ozoneocean
I'm sure that's a part of it. That'd tend to indicate to me that our tribal/heard/pack tendencies run very deep indeed. And I think that's probably the reason. What do you think?

The word you're reaching for when you say “Tribal/herd/pack” is “community”. The kind of back-handed treatment of your phrasing indicates that you consider yourself one of the individualists of our society, joining the esteemed ranks of the academic elite. Lots of people consider themselves in this way, after all, this is America, is it not? Land of the free, the brave, the exploited consumer?

Let me reveal the secret that America is keeping from us all: humans are made to be part of a community. If we are excluded from a community (or if the community itself is destroyed) we will form our own with like-minded folk, or else drift disparingly feeling misunderstood by everyone. Perhaps we'll watch TV.

So, what is a community? A community is a group of people whom you live around and interact with daily. They are the people who can say “Who, Mike? Oh, Mike lives over on Second street. He married my cousin.” These are the people who typically share common beliefs about life, justice, government, traffic rules, and religion. Since community is defined by relationships, your community can only be as large as your capacity for intimacy allows. One cannot have a real relationship of thousands, for example. You may know facts about thousands, but you have no real connection to them.
A community must consist of people who live where you are. Only through physical closeness can we form true intimacy full of feeling and consequences. Yes, you can sympathize with the people suffering in China, but it is really only an abstract understanding, it does not even hold the same impact of your beloved pet dying. That is natural.

I know, I know. You're a rugged individual. You are a free-thinker, exploring the philosophical realms of intellectualism, right?

Not really. You're just in community denial. “Those people aren't MY people!” you say, “They're simple and stupid! I'm ________!” (fill in the blank with whatever descriptor you use to segregate yourself…gay, black, hispanic, intelligent, poor, rich, talented, special.)

Yep, those are your people, alright. They taught you your language, how to read, what is right and wrong, what side of the road to drive on, when to wear clothes, who to worship, etc. Televsion has gone a long way to break communities into “individuals”, which conveniently makes them more vulnerable to exploitation, but it never fully shuts down our need to have a group of people to whom we relate (badly, sometimes) and belong. Relationships are coded into our DNA, or crafted by God into our Souls, it seems.

So, I challenge you to, instead of denying your community, look at it. Try to identify it and then see how you “belong” to it. I urge you to use your “rugged individualism” to benefit your community, as is it's rightful purpose.

Don't withdraw…engage.

-Dave

GHOST ZERO
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:09PM
bravo1102 at 12:37PM, May 30, 2008
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Roguehill
So, what is a community? A community is a group of people whom you live around and interact with daily. … These are the people who typically share common beliefs about life, justice, government, traffic rules, and religion. Since community is defined by relationships, your community can only be as large as your capacity for intimacy allows. One cannot have a real relationship of thousands, for example. You may know facts about thousands, but you have no real connection to them.
A community must consist of people who live where you are. Only through physical closeness can we form true intimacy full of feeling and consequences.

Larger communities have been formed for self-defence and co-operation. Self-defence in the first walled cities (e.g.Jericho) and co-operation for the large projects that a village couldn't do but a larger community could. This led to city-states and nations.

There was always something; a common idea used to form a common identiy in these larger groups because as you've pointed out, the extended family is usually as big a group as someone can intimately identify with. However, throughout history larger groups and common identities have been created. Societies have been organized as the bigger group can do things that smaller groups can't. But they have to given something to rally around.

As ozoneocean pointed out this can happen merely by all of a group bonding around cheering for a sports team. To avoid the alienation possible in the larger group things were created to bond the larger groups. One was a charismatic leader (Vive le Napoleon!, ) another was a deity (We're Babylonians we worship Marduk, you're Judean you worship Yahweh etc) the national or ethnic identity (God, England and King Harry!) a shared history (The Battles of Kosovo, the Alamo)sports teams (RED! WHITE!)espirit de corps (We're Charlie 4-13, we're number one, the best damn company under the sun etc…)

An individual may not be intimate with those others because he/she doesn't know them, but there are shared identities, that lead to social organization for co-operation and defence. Every human has a group identity that has formed their enviornment and helped to make that human what he/she is. So as said recognize your group and make that group the best you can.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
lothar at 4:15PM, May 30, 2008
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i agree with rougehill. american corporations are hard at work to deprive the mammal part of your brain . to starve you of the love and closeness that you need as a human .
why ?
because if they can carve out a big hole in your center , that gives them something to fill with otherwise useless merchandise and “entertainment”
they don't want community, they want consumers. problem for them is that human beings still naturaly pull together into groups . the companies hate this ! the more time you spend communicating with eachother is less time spent absorbing advertisments and shopping, that's why things like myspace were created - to give the illusion of community without distracting you from your primary purpose as a consumer
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
bravo1102 at 6:01PM, May 30, 2008
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lothar
i agree with rougehill. american corporations are hard at work to deprive the mammal part of your brain . to starve you of the love and closeness that you need as a human .
why ?
because if they can carve out a big hole in your center , that gives them something to fill with otherwise useless merchandise and “entertainment”
they don't want community, they want consumers. problem for them is that human beings still naturaly pull together into groups . the companies hate this ! the more time you spend communicating with eachother is less time spent absorbing advertisments and shopping, that's why things like myspace were created - to give the illusion of community without distracting you from your primary purpose as a consumer

Right idea, wrong conclusion. Companies love groups. It makes targeting the consumer so much easier when they can be placed into neat little cubbieholes with group demographics.

They love communities as they're easy pickings because they can make their advertising appeal to the things that create the larger community. It works for sales and merchandising going back to how humans were sold a bill of goods about the god of their city-state being better than the god of that other city-state so as to attract more immigrants.

They can also create communities so as to better target the market for what they are selling. Think about how politicians are marketed.

“Remember the Alamo!” “Remember the Maine!” Creating a community by creating a common cause to sell an idea?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
lothar at 3:44PM, May 31, 2008
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bravo1102
lothar
i agree with rougehill. american corporations are hard at work to deprive the mammal part of your brain . to starve you of the love and closeness that you need as a human .
why ?
because if they can carve out a big hole in your center , that gives them something to fill with otherwise useless merchandise and “entertainment”
they don't want community, they want consumers. problem for them is that human beings still naturaly pull together into groups . the companies hate this ! the more time you spend communicating with eachother is less time spent absorbing advertisments and shopping, that's why things like myspace were created - to give the illusion of community without distracting you from your primary purpose as a consumer

Right idea, wrong conclusion. Companies love groups. It makes targeting the consumer so much easier when they can be placed into neat little cubbieholes with group demographics.

They love communities as they're easy pickings because they can make their advertising appeal to the things that create the larger community. It works for sales and merchandising going back to how humans were sold a bill of goods about the god of their city-state being better than the god of that other city-state so as to attract more immigrants.

They can also create communities so as to better target the market for what they are selling. Think about how politicians are marketed.

“Remember the Alamo!” “Remember the Maine!” Creating a community by creating a common cause to sell an idea?

i think thats what i meant by “the illusion of community”
artificial cultures organized around consumption
theres a excellent documentary called “the century of the self” you should see. i believe you can find it on google video
ahh here it is
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=century+of+the+self&sitesearch=
anyway , i think we are saying similar things here , i'm just saying that there are basicaly two types of communities - the naturaly occuring ones created by the members of that community -or- the artificialy created ones that you speak of

i dont know what DD is ….
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM

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