Debate and Discussion

Bird Flu
SarahN at 12:09AM, Dec. 29, 2005
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Yeah….
Do you think all of this news about the Bird Flu and a “pandemic” (a new word that people LOVE to use…like “terrorist”) is a bunch of bullshit? I mean with them basically saying it's going to be the next Black Death?

I have no doubt in my mind that the Bird Flu is deadly….but, like with those “yellow” or “red” terrorist alert things….it just seems like they're trying to make everyone scared.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:22PM
Hawk at 12:42AM, Dec. 29, 2005
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I do think that in an effort ot get more people watching, news programs like to exaggerate the urgency and magnitude of all sorts of problems. I have this theory that in Iraq they have stuff besides car bombings, such as people living their daily lives and going to work and school.

Yeah, I'd believe it if you said the bird flu wasn't quite as dangerous as it's being made out to be. But I guess just dangerous enough for China to kill all their chickens. Still, I'm not at all worried about it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
madscott at 8:17AM, Dec. 29, 2005
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they are trying to scare people. but they are doing it because they have tracked a trend with the Flu. Every “X” number of years the Flu spikes due to some mutation and kicks off a bunch of people.
In 1978 there was Swine Flu that killed almost no one because they managed to find it early and quarentine it to a military base.

So they are just tring their hardest to get everyone on the alert for this round of the virus so that they can catch it early again.
Bird flu just hapened to be the term that caught on.
We could all be reading about SARS again if you like.

So as much as I hate hearing about it. I can support them trying to do their job.
Please Read MadScott
And Please Visit http://www.nightgig.com
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:50PM
ccs1989 at 11:38AM, Dec. 30, 2005
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Awarness is good, but sending every person with a low IQ to the nearest Wal-Mart/Groccery store to buy a years supply of chicken lest the bird flu wipe out all fowl is just stupid.

When you consider all the other ways humanity could be wiped out this doesn't seem very likely.
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“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
SpANG at 6:43PM, Dec. 30, 2005
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ccs1989
Awarness is good, but sending every person with a low IQ to the nearest Wal-Mart/Groccery store to buy a years supply of chicken lest the bird flu wipe out all fowl is just stupid.

When you consider all the other ways humanity could be wiped out this doesn't seem very likely.


I think every person with a low IQ SHOULD go to Wal-Mart. Hell, I don't want to deal with them. :P

.: SpANG! :.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:51PM
ccs1989 at 7:34AM, Dec. 31, 2005
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I'm sure the people who died of SARS weren't very happy though. :| And I'm sure the awareness that SARS was out there helped stop it from killing more people, just like people knowing about Mad Cow Disease saved them from it. “The more you know, the better you are.” was valid in these situations, because then action could be taken. The black plauge spread back in old europe because people didn't know enough. So in the modern world we try to prevent that.
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
ozoneocean at 3:09AM, Jan. 3, 2006
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Bird Flu is a real problem, but the media isbeing very silly about it.
At least we know what's going on though. The longer it takes to mutate and crossover to become a human strain, the less chance it has of being deadly.

It's different from the “terrorist” threat though. That one is pumped up by governments, the media isn't as much to blaim for that overblown image. In fact the media is being used just like the rest of us.
While bird flu could be bad, terrorism will always be a limited threat at best. The World Trade Centre collapse was a fluke even the building designers couldn't have predicted, and yet it's made to look deliberite in order to magnify the danger “terrorism” poses. The bombings in Spain, Moscow, Beslan, Bali, and London etc, are a better indication of the danger: Conventional bombs killing about 2 or 3 hundred at a time, at the most.
That's bad, but not scary.
WMDs are far too difficult and expensive for a mere terror cell to ever try, and without massive resources they do less damage than an ordinary car bomb, (that goes for “dirty” bombs and chemical attacks. “Biological weapons” are only a threat to one or two people at a time).
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
Chameloncholic at 1:33PM, Jan. 3, 2006
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So why hasn't it been stolen?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:39AM
ozoneocean at 3:33PM, Jan. 3, 2006
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Phantom_Penguin
It woldn't be a “nuke” but it could make hundreds sick with radiation.
Cham makes a good point; in reality it's quite hard to get enough good material. Just ask anyone who collects radioactive material as a hobby (there really are people who do that), and ask them what hoops they have to jump through to get what little they can.
Anyway, the big problem with the “Dirty bomb” myth is that they can't really do much damage. You have to really know what you're doing with the sort of material you put in it, (not just any old radioactive crap is going to be any good), and then the trouble is that most of the symptoms are only going to affect people months and years later. Maybe not even until the next generation!
And all your bomb will do is disperse the material. It’s got to be pretty massive a bomb to disperse the stuff far enough to do any useful damage. And ironically in that case it’d do more damage just as a conventional explosive!

“Dirty” bombs are just an expensive waste of time and money when they can do MUCH more for almost no money and relatively little effort with just a few conventional bombs. i.e.: Moscow, London, Bali, Beslan, Madrid, etc…
So you see why those kinds of things are overblown rubbish?

Even dumping poison or biological agents in water supplies is too hard and expensive for terrorists. You need so much of it to have any effect it's just impractical.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
Anonymous at 6:44PM, Jan. 3, 2006
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ozoneocean
Even dumping poison or biological agents in water supplies is too hard and expensive for terrorists. You need so much of it to have any effect it's just impractical.

Indeed, it is overblown rubbish. But hey, the government needs your help, and you're under attack! Support it! Vote conservative now and fight the righteous war! Every weapon that can be used against you, no matter how unlikely, is a BIG thing! :wink:


Terrorists don't use poison bombs. Their poison is fear, and we've all fallen victim to it. Why? Because we're suckers.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
Anonymous at 9:10PM, Jan. 4, 2006
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I think the coolest thing about the bird flu is that when a group of scientist tried to manipulate the virus as to not ever affect humans, they recreated the Spanish Flu (Which had previously been wiped out after it killed hundreds of people, opposed to the like 10 or so the bird flu has).

Cool.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
McEwin at 5:47AM, Jan. 5, 2006
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They are not trying to scare you, they are trying to keep you aware.

Do you honestly think a bunch of Politicions sit around in a building saying “I wonder how we can scare people today?”?

And how would people react if they WERNT told? “My whole family just died from the Bird Flu, ya'know, I might've wanted to KNOW this could happen.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:56PM
Zwuh at 6:19AM, Jan. 5, 2006
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McEwin
Do you honestly think a bunch of Politicions sit around in a building saying “I wonder how we can scare people today?”?

Yes, actually. History has shown that fear is an excellent tool to make people do what you want.

As for bird flu (and other overblown issues of this ilk)… The public does need to know, yes. But there's reporting the facts and there's exaggerating the facts to get ratings/power/etc. A simple “here's the situation, this is what's being done, this is what you should do” followed by updates WHEN SOMETHING NEEDS UPDATING is sufficient. The media these days is a little too attached to this “news up to the minute” idea.
last edited on July 14, 2011 5:02PM
marine at 10:02AM, Jan. 13, 2006
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I for one welcome our man mad flu deaths.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
invisiblegirl at 10:17PM, Jan. 14, 2006
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hahaha that picture made me laugh so much :lol:


anyways…all I have to say as a avid bird lover and owner, that birds can catch HUMAN colds and flus, so it works visa versa too and yes our colds and flus can actually kill the birds we own. Not to mention that masking illness or weakness is a characteristic of the bird species. So lots of birds could be masking a more dangerous Plague in them anyways, and I wouldn't be surprised.
I'd be more worried about AIDs and Herpes and Cancer frankly. They need to have the symptoms of Herpes and the stages described in crisp detail every day on the news. :D Now that would be good news.

And hey the Black plague is still around…there's some more good news! :wink:
In some parts of South Africa, such as Coega in the Eastern Cape, bubonic plague is still endemic among local rodent populations and has never been eradicated.

I'm sure we all remember the black death right…killed two thirds of the worlds population a long time ago. And somehow it is still around. And I'm sure there are many many many other pandemics out there that go undetected, or are around but not shown on the news, or are still in the making.

edited again: I'm going back on a point I made earlier about birds masking something deadlier. Some one find out about the 1918-1919 pandemic. Tell me how that one started? most likely from birds. That one killed 40 million. I think we're about overdue for a good pandemic now.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:02PM
marine at 11:39AM, Jan. 15, 2006
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Don't look now its SARS! AND KILLED BEES!

JESUS CHRIST KILLER BEES WITH SARS PUT INTO THEM! WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Anonymous at 3:31PM, Jan. 15, 2006
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Any dogs and killer bees with SARS? And when the dogs bark they shoot bees with SARS out of their mouths at you?
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
lukee at 3:41PM, Jan. 15, 2006
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http://www.drunkduck.com/Awesome_Opossum/index.php?p=7088

Bird flu is okay… if you're not a bird. Or if you aren't friends with a bird.
–LUKEE Q. FINKLEBERG
Genuine President For Life No Seriously Guys I Mean It For Reals of the Top Drawer
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:49PM
warofwinds at 11:04AM, Jan. 16, 2006
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Here is a direct excerpt from “Analysis and Reconstruction of the 1918 Pandemic Flu Virus”:

"Summary and Content

Summary

The 1918 influenza pandemic killed 20-50million people worldwide, including many healhty young adults. A team from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP) extracted viral RNA from autopsy specimens of victims and sequenced the viral genes. As experts have long speculated, the 1918 flu virus was a true avian flu virus that adapted to humans. In contrast, the 1957 and 1968 flu pandemics involved viruses that evolved from the recombination of avian and human viral sequences. the 1918 virus contains several amino acid changes that are also present in the current highly pathogenic H5N1 virus that has killed humans in the past 8 years.

Based on the AFIP data, a team at the CDC recreated the 1918 virus and tested it in mice from pathogenicity. Compared with contemporary human flu viruses, the 1918 virus produced nearly 40,000 times more viral particles in lung tissue. It caused severe bronchiolitis and alveolitis, pulmonary adema, and alveolar hemorrhage–just as it had in human lungs in 1918. By creating variants of the virus, with changes in specific genes, the team showed that the hemagglutinin (HA) gene was essential for virulence and that the polymerase genes also made important contributions. Cleavage of the HA protein, a step critical to pathogenesis, occured by a novel mechanism.“

…No, not made up. Published in Journal Watch, found on Medscape. The 1918 flu virus came from a mutation of an older version of avian flu. If today's avian flu can mutate by ”novel mechanism" to infect humans, and then jump from human to human, we have another pandemic. I say pandemic rather than epidemic, because bird flu has been found on every continent except anarctica. I don't believe anyone has tested the penguins yet, so who knows? As a junior in a pre-med program, all those big words up there make sense to me. I don't agree with the government recreating the original virus, but it proves that if anything, the world isn't make a big enough deal about this.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:46PM
Anonymous at 4:57AM, Jan. 17, 2006
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Well I don't think that the whole issue of the Avian flu can be regarded as something which has been unnecessarily blown up by the media or any other person concerned. It has surely got to do something with the relaity, as I saw an article regarding the advancing dangers of the flu at http://www.drugdelivery.ca/bird-flu.aspx and it did not seem that they were cooking a story there. Moreover one must remember that leading health organizations including WHO has also warned us against this danger so there surely has something in it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
ozoneocean at 8:28AM, Jan. 17, 2006
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warofwinds
I don't agree with the government recreating the original virus, but it proves that if anything, the world isn't make a big enough deal about this.
I think they're making just the right amount of fuss myself. There's a lot of money going into it, culls, testing, quarantines etc. all over the world.

Experts always think things they know about need more attention… :D
Yes there is a very real danger here, but we did stop SARS, AIDS is being contained (to an extent), we haven’t all got ebola…
I mean, there's a lot of people who think we should be really, really worried about collisions with asteroids/metiors/meteriorites/commets etc. Others that think we should all be concerned about dieing from 100+ meter high tsunamis caused by catastrophic underwater avalanches, and then there's the possibility of all life on earth becoming extinct if we're ever unlucky enough to be in the path of a faster than light gamma-ray pulse from an exploding supernova or black hole or something.
Not to mention all the possible manmade catastrophes!

The old story of “the boy who cried wolf” teaches us an extremely valuable lesson: keep warning people and they become complacent, then they’re not ready when the real danger comes. But how do we know which is the real danger? Maybe the warnings only seem false because we were warned in time and because of that we were able to avert the disaster?
It’s a tricky tightrope to walk.
“Be alert, but not alarmed”:lol:
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
Titch at 2:42PM, Jan. 19, 2006
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Everything is blown up by the media these days. Everyone is compeating with your attention, trying to make the biggest impact. Your not being saturated with fear because you should be afraid; your being bombarded with it because it makes one newspaper sell more copies than another. It's sensationalism gone MAD.

I haven't gone a single day since the outbreak without being reminded that theres a possibility that it is going to become a pandemic. Being given some kind of progress report or something. It happens every time I flick on the TV, The Radio, see a newspaper. Your being forced to be constantly aware of a problem you can do SQUAT about.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
ozoneocean at 10:40PM, Jan. 19, 2006
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Phantom_Penguin
The biological agent thing can be debated. The japanese subway attack was carried out with very little siren gas and it killed 20 people or so. It would have killed tons more if one of the gasers set off al his siren. He only set off 1 of 2 bags he had with him.
And the Tokyo attack is a perfect example of why the chimical weapon threat is a joke.
First of, your info is wrong.
There were multiple attacks: Apparrently cult members boarded 5 different trains. Cult members carried bags or sarin wich they pireced.
Out of all the trains attacked, these were the results:
Train one; one death, 231 injuries.
Train two; one death, 338 injuries.
Train three; no deaths, 200 injuries.
Train four; one death, 532 injuries.
Train five; eight deaths, 275 injuries.

That attack took years to plan and many thousands of dollars. They even rented a farming property in Austrlia to test the stuff on animals. And after that, look at the result! Pathetic.
It was even in an underground, densly crowded situation. The IDEAL circumstances for a chemical attack to work. And you see how well it “worked”. Whereas a few cheap bombs, and almost no planning does a LOT more dammage. As I keep saying.
All threats other than bombs are just not threats, (except to the one or two unlucky people who ever die).
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
ozoneocean at 10:59AM, Jan. 25, 2006
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Compared to the massive effort, the money, the planning, all the testing, the research and development, and all the years that were put in, it is a joke. –A lot of the injuries were respiratory.

Replace all those attacks with dirt cheap, simple explosives and most of those injuries would be deaths. It's as simple as that. Chemical weapons are not effective for terrorists, the only weapons that are, are bombs. Anything else needs a lot of luck or nothing happens. Anything else just doesn't give them anywhere near the same return on their time, effort, and money. The fact is that the press and governments build up a ‘threat’ to scare people.
-Perhaps the real motive of the government is to trick terrorists into trying to make chemical, biological and radiological weapons because they know it would waste their resources? Good plan. :lol:

That's why those poor bastards in Guantanamo Bay are kept in cages, chained hand to feet constantly, and tortured. Most of them are just fighters, simple POWs, not even terrorists, and they're treated worse than Roman slaves. All to further this myth of the “devil terrorist”. It’s shameful.

There surely are terrorists out there and no one wants to be blown up buy them. But it's just not as big of a problem as it's been made out to be.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
tails at 5:30PM, Feb. 5, 2006
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Today I walked home and saw a billboard. On it, it said in big black letters something about being protected. Then I saw someone feeding the birds with a protective suit on. Please tell me THAT isn't what the government plans to do with us. You can't protect yourself from pigeons that have nothing to do with you by wearing a suit all the time. Bird flu DIDN'T kill millons of people, the only ones that CAN die from it are the ones who take care of birds or those who undercook their birds. Lets stop the crap.

THE BIRD FLU STORY (True Story)
One day my cousin came over to my house and said that her social studies teacher said Bird Flu will kill everyone if we don't get vaccinated. I was really p.o. because bird flu only kills those who tend to birds and come in contact of the birds that have the flu. I told my cousin that today I would get her a chicken costume and dress her up as a chicken. Then she could go in the classroom and say to her, “I have Bird Flu.”
Am I mean?
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:06PM
lothar at 10:08AM, March 25, 2006
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McEwin
Do you honestly think a bunch of Politicions sit around in a building saying “I wonder how we can scare people today?”?

i know theres at least one , his name is KARL ROVE !
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM

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