Debate and Discussion

Blackface and other halloween costumes of the type
Skullbie at 4:05PM, Nov. 6, 2009
(online)
posts: 4,773
joined: 12-9-2007
There's some negative controversy over costumes of this variety:
http://www.afterellen.com/blog/drummerdeeds/a-dallas-cowboys-cheerleader-does-blackface


To which a poster replied;

Malia Kuuleialoha
Wow, please for your own sake, please lighten up. The historical significance of black face and a college student or a NFL cheerleader painting their face for a halloween costume are so far off from eachother that it isn't even funny. When you call attention to things like this you take away attention from ACTUAL racism. Instead of drugging up a contrived article on Halloween costumes as a discussion forum for race, you could have actually found a real article about racism to give a commentary on. If you actually were a historian and understood historical significance of black face you would understand that the only reason that it was ever offensive for a white person to paint their face black was because of the intended racism behind it. It was a statement. A Halloween costume is not a statement. It's a costume, it's supposed to look nothing like you. It's supposed to be whimsical and poke fun. You have no reason to judge these people unless you know for a fact that their motives were racist.
You can't tip toe around everything in life. We are a melting pot society. The fact that an artist like T-Pain has become popular enough to become a Halloween costume shows how much our society has changed for the better since the civil rights movement. Costumes of Jon Gosselin, T-Pain, Freddy Kruger, and German Beer Wench's all stand side by side. One more thought. If a black woman dresses up as the St. Pauli girl is it inherently racist? No. Because it's a Halloween Costume. Halloween is supposed to be fun. Stop trying to suck the fun out of a great american tradition.
Agree/disagree? I thought this post was very truthful and well put, mainly the intended racism part, but i'd like to hear what others have to say
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:47PM
therealtj at 5:09PM, Nov. 6, 2009
(online)
posts: 3,282
joined: 3-15-2007
So the first picture is a T-Pain costume, right? There isn't anything racist about that, she's dressed as a celebrity. The costume wouldn't look right if she hadn't made herself black. However, I'm a tad confused as to what the second picture is supposed to be. If he's actually just dressed as a black guy, then yeah, that actually is kinda racist.

“The only moral it is possible to draw from this story is that one should never throw the letter Q into a privet bush, but unfortunately there are times when it is unavoidable.”
-Douglas Adams, The Restaurant At the End of the Universe
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:28PM
Hakoshen at 8:16PM, Nov. 6, 2009
(offline)
posts: 2,090
joined: 11-23-2008
It's a white guy pretending to be black, albeit by using a method typically used to demean blacks in the earlier days of the film industry. They probably went around like “hey I'm a black guy lol” and nothing more. Using a cheap way of pretending to be black to get a cheap laugh during a holiday about dressing up isn't offensive (to me). Extremists civil rights groups have lost sight of the real purpose of trying to achieve civil rights, and are just people who'll cause trouble when there really ought not be any.
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
BffSatan at 8:22PM, Nov. 6, 2009
(online)
posts: 1,478
joined: 3-2-2008
I think it's pretty racist to consider this racist. Kinda like society is ready to accept skin colour as just another part of a person's physical appearance like hair or eye colour and then some idiot starts screaming, “HOLY SMOKES! BLACK PEOPLE!”

Also, political correctness is stupid because it completely overlooks real racism like the KKK and all that shit.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:21AM
Skullbie at 9:16PM, Nov. 6, 2009
(online)
posts: 4,773
joined: 12-9-2007
Definitely agree with it overlooking real racism, i mean look at this:
http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2009/03/obama_portland_student_talent.html
It's an 11 year old boy that wanted to dress up as obama out of admiration and perform a skit for the talent show but was banned out of fear of ‘offending’ people.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:47PM
Faliat at 6:02PM, Nov. 7, 2009
(online)
posts: 582
joined: 10-17-2006
I dressed up as generic Islamic Extremist last year to be “Osama Bin Liner”.

My mum made a beard for me and I wore a white towel would around my head and a white dressing gown. I didn't colour my skin or anything but I had a party at my house since I couldn't really leave.

I dunno if what I did was racist, but people would consider it that in some parts.


Also, my family has constantly pointed out that certain members look like celebrities.

My great aunt looks like Paul O' Grady as a woman… However my uncle (Through marriage to my aunt) even admits he looks a bit like a white Eddie murphy. And we've joked a few times about maybe putting him in blackface for halloween before he got rid of his moustache. I dunno if that would've been racist either since he seriously DOES lok liek a white Eddie Murphy.

I can't show photos. But It's weird sometimes looking at old photos of when he has the 'tashe.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
mlai at 7:53PM, Nov. 7, 2009
(online)
posts: 3,035
joined: 12-28-2006
Faliat
I dressed up as generic Islamic Extremist last year to be “Osama Bin Liner”.
My mum made a beard for me and I wore a white towel would around my head and a white dressing gown. I didn't colour my skin or anything but I had a party at my house since I couldn't really leave.
I dunno if what I did was racist, but people would consider it that in some parts
Yeah I would consider that pretty racist, because entire nations of people dress like that and are not terrorists.

Also it's pretty sensitive, because after 9/11, people who are not even Muslim, but have head towels, were the targets of hate crimes or hate harassment.

I know that 1 of the common excuses are “I don't mean it that way.” But ignorance is basically one of the foundations on which racism is built.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
Hawk at 9:06AM, Nov. 8, 2009
(online)
posts: 2,760
joined: 1-2-2006
I kind of think that allowing those costumes to be an issue prolongs racism in a way. Racism won't be gone until skin color isn't an issue at all, and some people keep dredging up reasons to be hurt.

Although, it's hard to judge whether or not those people in costume were being racist without knowing how they were presenting themselves. Photos don't show it.

Faliat
I dressed up as generic Islamic Extremist last year to be “Osama Bin Liner”.

If you were dressed specifically to be Bin Laden, I don't find it racist.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
Inkmonkey at 12:27PM, Nov. 8, 2009
(offline)
posts: 2,220
joined: 1-3-2006
The first one doesn't bother me, and the second one seems designed specifically to bother people, and because of that doesn't bother me. They're both pretty shitty costumes, though, all things considered.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
seventy2 at 5:50PM, Nov. 8, 2009
(online)
posts: 3,953
joined: 11-15-2007
i think the quoted argument says enough. i agree with OP
facara
Running Anew an exercise blog.
I'm gonna love you till the money comes, half of it's gonna be mine someday.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:30PM
Faliat at 8:57PM, Nov. 8, 2009
(online)
posts: 582
joined: 10-17-2006
Hawk
If you were dressed specifically to be Bin Laden, I don't find it racist.
I was dressing up as a parody of Bin Laden. I've been calling the guy “Bin Liner” since 9/11 as a joke. Mainly because he's full of crap, stinks and needs taken out.

Was probably the best joke I ever made as a twelve year old. It certainly was better than one in which the Milky Bar Kid falls off his horse…

Oh and BTW, that cheerleader, I'd know who she was dressing up as from MILES away.

It's LIL' WAYNE!


Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
ozoneocean at 9:28PM, Nov. 8, 2009
(online)
posts: 25,055
joined: 1-2-2004
Is it just me or do people love to post stuff about black people saying things aren't racist.

It's like “Hey! Lookit THIS!!!!! *dodgy image, racial taunt, story about discrimination etc* But it's OK ‘cause Lookit THIS!!!! *black person saying there’s nothing wrong here* What do YOU think?”
-implication being that if you disagree with what the quoted the black person says you're an over-sensitive cretin who is too Politically Correct.

I'm seeing a trend here. ;)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
Skullbie at 9:40PM, Nov. 8, 2009
(online)
posts: 4,773
joined: 12-9-2007
If you meant me the girl i quoted is white and from Russia.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:47PM
ozoneocean at 1:35AM, Nov. 9, 2009
(online)
posts: 25,055
joined: 1-2-2004
Meh, the name looks African.
But you know the sort of thing. I've seen it done about rape, gay people, people with disabilities…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
BffSatan at 1:51AM, Nov. 9, 2009
(online)
posts: 1,478
joined: 3-2-2008
ozoneocean
Meh, the name looks African.
But you know the sort of thing. I've seen it done about rape, gay people, people with disabilities…

There is a very big difference between dressing as a person who is black and dressing as a black person, or a disables or gay person for that matter.
Going as a particular person who happens to be of that race is not racist.
Going as a generic stereotype of that race is.

If someone went as Daniel Craig would this be offensive to blonds?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:21AM
ozoneocean at 2:10AM, Nov. 9, 2009
(online)
posts: 25,055
joined: 1-2-2004
BffSatan
There is a very big difference between dressing as a person who is black and dressing as a black person, or a disables or gay person for that matter.
You've misunderstood:
ozoneocean
It's like “Hey! Lookit THIS!!!!! *dodgy image, racial taunt, story about discrimination etc* But it's OK ‘cause Lookit THIS!!!! *black person saying there’s nothing wrong here* What do YOU think?”
-implication being that if you disagree with what the quoted the black person says you're an over-sensitive cretin who is too Politically Correct.
THAT is done about any topic people think will have a “politically correct” reaction.

But in this instance Skull says that's not the case. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
seventy2 at 10:09AM, Nov. 9, 2009
(online)
posts: 3,953
joined: 11-15-2007
is it racist when a black guy dresses up as a hillbilly?
facara
Running Anew an exercise blog.
I'm gonna love you till the money comes, half of it's gonna be mine someday.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:30PM
ozoneocean at 10:22AM, Nov. 9, 2009
(online)
posts: 25,055
joined: 1-2-2004
seventy2
is it racist when a black guy dresses up as a hillbilly?
Yeah, it's like when Stephan Hawking dresses as Lance Armstrong. Totally the same thing.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
seventy2 at 12:07PM, Nov. 9, 2009
(online)
posts: 3,953
joined: 11-15-2007
ozoneocean
seventy2
is it racist when a black guy dresses up as a hillbilly?
Yeah, it's like when Stephan Hawking dresses as Lance Armstrong. Totally the same thing.

but stephen hawking invented black holes, that's almost as badass as conquering the tour de france 7 times.
facara
Running Anew an exercise blog.
I'm gonna love you till the money comes, half of it's gonna be mine someday.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:30PM
Mr Lostman at 2:27PM, Nov. 9, 2009
(offline)
posts: 124
joined: 1-14-2009
I don't think Ozone remembers his posts in the Obama as joker thread.
Blood Martian Flowers. Occasionally updates.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
kyupol at 5:51PM, Nov. 9, 2009
(offline)
posts: 3,713
joined: 1-12-2006
let her wannabe black.

Heck. There's so many Filipinos who wannabe white. Especially in those elitist colleges where its usually children of business and military leaders that go there.

And black men who wannabe white (Michael Jackson).

And white men who wannabe black (Eminem).

People are entitled to freedom of expression. People should be free to wannabe what they want.

This thread gives me the lol!
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
ozoneocean at 8:35PM, Nov. 11, 2009
(online)
posts: 25,055
joined: 1-2-2004
Mr Lostman
I don't think Ozone remembers his posts in the Obama as joker thread.
How is my position here inconsistent?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
bravo1102 at 6:04AM, Nov. 12, 2009
(online)
posts: 3,359
joined: 1-21-2008
It isn't.

Now I could see if the costume was a Al Jolson style “black face”

or a generic “gang-banger” as opposed to just rubbing black face all over. It looks more like a poor man's commando camo paint than “black face”



versus

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Faliat at 7:49AM, Nov. 12, 2009
(online)
posts: 582
joined: 10-17-2006
Michael Jackson didn't want to be white. The guy had vitiligo and decided to go all over pale instead of mottled ( At least that's what I think. Sources say that it was just the condition itself that did it.). It's the same as shaving off all your hair once you start going noticeably bald. You don't wanna be bald, but it's better than a comb-over.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
Mr Lostman at 5:01PM, Nov. 12, 2009
(offline)
posts: 124
joined: 1-14-2009
ozoneocean
Mr Lostman
I don't think Ozone remembers his posts in the Obama as joker thread.
How is my position here inconsistent?
I didn't say that. You came to that conclusion on your own. (You're right, though. It is.)
Blood Martian Flowers. Occasionally updates.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
ozoneocean at 12:59AM, Nov. 13, 2009
(online)
posts: 25,055
joined: 1-2-2004
Mr Lostman
I didn't say that. You came to that conclusion on your own. (You're right, though. It is.)
I came to no such conclusion, but you have- this is confirmed by the text in brackets.
Why you want to side step about to say things in your own particular strange method is your own affair, but bravo1102 disagrees with you and as a forum poster I value his opinion VERY highly (he's well read extremely, experienced, knowledgeable, polite…), so I feel pretty safe in my position. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
Queen Simia at 10:22AM, Nov. 18, 2009
(online)
posts: 11
joined: 9-10-2009
The point is, it is nigh impossible at the age these people are to be completely ignorant of the historical implications of blackface. They most likely weren't doing it just to go “as a famous person,” but because they knew it would get a rise out of people. Feigning innocence only damns your case further.

If you think I'm being an oversensitive PC hippie by disagreeing with the OP and the quote, so be it. I'd much rather be part of the effort to move forward and abandon old practices tied to insulting other races.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
Orin J Master at 11:10AM, Nov. 18, 2009
(online)
posts: 437
joined: 12-16-2007
Queen Simia
The point is, it is nigh impossible at the age these people are to be completely ignorant of the historical implications of blackface. They most likely weren't doing it just to go “as a famous person,” but because they knew it would get a rise out of people. Feigning innocence only damns your case further.

it's very possible for young people to be completely ignorant. on ANY topic. we live in an age where you google things instead of learning it, so they're all retarded.

(geez, i DO sound like i'm 80 online)
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
Galladeon5 at 11:27AM, Nov. 18, 2009
(offline)
posts: 1
joined: 11-17-2009
Skullbie
There's some negative controversy over costumes of this variety:
http://www.afterellen.com/blog/drummerdeeds/a-dallas-cowboys-cheerleader-does-blackface


To which a poster replied;

Malia Kuuleialoha
Wow, please for your own sake, please lighten up. The historical significance of black face and a college student or a NFL cheerleader painting their face for a halloween costume are so far off from eachother that it isn't even funny. When you call attention to things like this you take away attention from ACTUAL racism. Instead of drugging up a contrived article on Halloween costumes as a discussion forum for race, you could have actually found a real article about racism to give a commentary on. If you actually were a historian and understood historical significance of black face you would understand that the only reason that it was ever offensive for a white person to paint their face black was because of the intended racism behind it. It was a statement. A Halloween costume is not a statement. It's a costume, it's supposed to look nothing like you. It's supposed to be whimsical and poke fun. You have no reason to judge these people unless you know for a fact that their motives were racist.
You can't tip toe around everything in life. We are a melting pot society. The fact that an artist like T-Pain has become popular enough to become a Halloween costume shows how much our society has changed for the better since the civil rights movement. Costumes of Jon Gosselin, T-Pain, Freddy Kruger, and German Beer Wench's all stand side by side. One more thought. If a black woman dresses up as the St. Pauli girl is it inherently racist? No. Because it's a Halloween Costume. Halloween is supposed to be fun. Stop trying to suck the fun out of a great american tradition.
Agree/disagree? I thought this post was very truthful and well put, mainly the intended racism part, but i'd like to hear what others have to say
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:32PM
kyupol at 1:42PM, Nov. 18, 2009
(offline)
posts: 3,713
joined: 1-12-2006
Makes me wonder…

What about this asian girl who wannabe white?
http://www.cosplay.ph/resume/costume/3664.jpg

lol!
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved