General Discussion

Bobby Fischer dies, 64
ozoneocean at 5:06AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,789
joined: 1-2-2006


Awwww… :(

He was a little but nutty, but a really interesting character and a great chess player. A cold war hero at one stage. He had a massive ego, but that was almost endearing rather than repulsive…

Anyone have any opinions about the guy?

Anyone even KNOW who he was?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
mechanical_lullaby at 5:23AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,905
joined: 1-7-2006
I saw a movie on him once when I was little– um… More of a know OF him situation than a know him.

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:57PM
Steely Gaze at 5:53AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(offline)
posts: 824
joined: 7-7-2007
Whoa, I didn't know Fischer died! What happened?

When I think of chess, I always think of Bobby Fischer. Every dang time.
A Roll of the Dice now with full-size pages!

John Clyde now with ten times the tacky Hawaiian shirts!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:57PM
CharleyHorse at 5:58AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(offline)
posts: 627
joined: 12-7-2006
His reputation as a chess master may or may not have been exaggerated. Hard-hearted gossip has it that his was more of a game of psyching out an opponent, using attention seeking habits, rather than simply being the better chess player. It's odd that there could be controversy in that regard so many decades after he was on the competition circuit.

I know that his entry onto the chess scene inspired huge numbers of Westerners to learn chess for the first time or to take up the game of chess again. I know that most of those people later scratched their heads and said, “What the hell? This is still the most boring and stupid game on the face of the Earth. Me emulating Bobby Fischer doesn't change that!”

Personally I think he was at least partly a con-man but wholly a brilliant chess master and I'm glad he entered the scene when and how he did, and I shall miss him now that he has left his mortal burdens behind him.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
ozoneocean at 6:12AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,789
joined: 1-2-2006
He just died in hospital in Reykjavik…
Hey, chess is a cool game. Damn hard though, depending on who you play. You really need to play against someone close to you ability to enjoy it. If they're too good, it gets too hard and it's boring. If they're not good it gets too easy and it's pointless. -_-

Ha! Poor Bobby, I like the character they based on him for the Chess musical ^^
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Doctor Shadow at 6:15AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 904
joined: 1-6-2008
*Tips his hat*

RIP Bobby…
A Ronin writer, a masterless samurai of the written word…
http://www.drunkduck.com/The_Chronicles_of_Wyrden/
Updating: Thursdays. Now in glorious Ink Wash and Water Soluble Pencil! Reva's note: This is not created digitally, it's all hand drawn and inked.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:12PM
pinkertonpark at 7:00AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(offline)
posts: 13
joined: 12-30-2007
Chess is strategy so a win is a win regardless of how you came about it. So Fischer must've had something going for him. Farewell, sir.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:44PM
skoolmunkee at 7:28AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 7,058
joined: 1-2-2006
Was he the one who had to leave the country because there was an outstanding warrant for his arrest…? Or was that the OTHER eccentric chess master?
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:40PM
Custard Trout at 7:54AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(offline)
posts: 4,566
joined: 2-22-2007
It is a shame, sixty isn't even that old.
Hey buddy, you should be a Russian Cosmonaut, and here's why.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:59AM
Red Slayer at 8:17AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,873
joined: 3-1-2006
pinkertonpark
Chess is strategy so a win is a win regardless of how you came about it.
It's more like tactics, the movement of the pieces and the battleground is too limited to call it strategy.

Regardless RIP.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:03PM
simonitro at 8:45AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 608
joined: 1-14-2006
This is the same age when my grandfather died from my mother side.

It's, truely, a young age compared to people who'd live up until 90's+

Anyway, R.I.P Bobby Fischer… I didn't know you too much but still, it is a loss.


Enjoy… Las Vegas-y
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:38PM
Product Placement at 8:56AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 7,078
joined: 10-18-2007
ozoneocean
He just died in hospital in Reykjavik…

Actually, he died in his home. He was declared dead at the hospital.

He had been sick for a while. The whole last leg of his year he spent most of the time bedridden. Ever since he came over from prison in Tokyo his health had been very bad.


This was his condition, moments after he landed in Iceland in 2005.

What was he doing in prison in Tokyo? His American citizenship had been revoked on the grounds of tax evasion and breaking the sanctions on Yugoslavia by playing chess there and receiving price money there. Therefore was his passport illegal and he had no citizenship. He stayed in that prison for months before an Icelander who was a huge fan of him managed to convince his government to accept him as a political refugee and grant him citizenship.


This picture was taken days before his death. He looks pissed of because he was against someone making a documentary about him and the guy who freed him from prison. Why was he pissed of? I don't know. Maybe he didn't want the world to see him in that state.

I personally didn't like him and I met him personally. My friends father was a part of the group that saved Bobby and he came to visit my friends father a couple of times. He was very antisemitic and racist and gave me the feeling that he was going to give people the impression that Icelanders were that as well, since we saved him and all.

But now he's gone and hopefully in a better place. At least he enjoyed the last few years of his live. 99% of Iceland is white and protestant.
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
ozoneocean at 11:29AM, Jan. 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,789
joined: 1-2-2006
And funnily enough he was Jewish himself. ^_^

Ah, like I said; he was a nut. But he was a very individual character. He struck out and did things his own way, and he achieved a colossal victory early in his life.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Product Placement at 11:24PM, Jan. 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 7,078
joined: 10-18-2007
Well, his mother was Jewish. He didn't consider himself one. But such is life.
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
ozoneocean at 11:39PM, Jan. 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,789
joined: 1-2-2006
His dad too it turns out. ;)
And conventionally, that'd make him one too, but it depends how you think about things like that.

Probably why he had those views: less idealogical and more personal issues. People are like that with their parents. That's one of the more tragic things about him. Nothing's sadder than someone with those sorts of self hate issues.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Coveinant at 10:48PM, Jan. 23, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,768
joined: 9-17-2007
There is one thing I do remember about him. He was the chess master that was beaten by the first chess playing computer. He lost with some dignity the first time (yeah he was beaten by the prodicesser as well) at about 30 or so moves in. He did do some good in his life so RIP dude.
Enter my contests and be happy about your ideas.

go here, I may have left you something good
CJ
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:47AM
Product Placement at 2:12AM, Jan. 24, 2008
(online)
posts: 7,078
joined: 10-18-2007
No you're thinking of Kasparov. Fischer hadn't played publicly for years before that event.

Bobby Fischer is famous for being the first American to become the world champion in chess in 1972. Why was it such a big deal? Because the sitting champion at that time was a Russian. Again, why was that such a big deal? It was the middle of the cold war and America was looking for every single opportunity to beat the Russians in something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Fischer
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
UltimaXG2 at 7:48PM, Feb. 5, 2008
(offline)
posts: 374
joined: 8-30-2007
He disappeared for quite some time. I remember that much. It would have been great to learn a thing or two from him. He died pretty young…
Comics:
Beyond the Deep End
Mysterious Transfer Student
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:36PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 12:40PM, Feb. 6, 2008
(offline)
posts: 395
joined: 1-16-2006
I have to agree with Product Placement.

I apreciate what he did for chess, his views & theory of chess and especially his variants of chess. These are the only nice things though I can say about him. He seemed a very angery and hateful man for most of his life and he clearly was a person with problems. It is a pity, I remember being very disapointed when I learned more about him after watching the movie “Searching for Bobby Fischer”.

He was a great in chess, but he wasn't very great in most other areas in life it seems.

I'd much rather talk about the future of chess. Perhaps I'll go start a thread on it.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
ozoneocean at 12:59PM, Feb. 6, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,789
joined: 1-2-2006
One of the things I respect most about the man is that he's a “tarnished” hero. He didn't “tow the party line”. He was America's, and the whole of the West's hero against the Russians, and all the Eastern Bloc, and yet he said a big “F*** YOU!” to his home country and the West as well. He was his own man completely and his home country HATED him for it, which is the saddest aspect of all really.

Ultimately neither of those sides during the cold war or after it had any respect for individualism.

Whatever his crazy views, they were personal issues.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 1:42PM, Feb. 6, 2008
(offline)
posts: 395
joined: 1-16-2006
Ozone,

Normally I have great respect for your opinion but I think you are way off base here. He isn't a tranished hero in the sense that you make him out to be. Lot of people stand up to the establishment with for much better causes then themselves in the cold war. Go watch “Good Night and Good Luck” for a much better example of this in Edward R. Murrow. Bobby didn't say “I want to stick it to the man” he called for a Natzi style revisioning of his country. He proudly said called for millions of jews to be put to death and delighted openly in the suffering of jews.

Many people are hated for going against the grain. Bobby Fisher largely faded into obscurity, and where he was hated it was for being a racist. Bobby Fisher wasn't his own man, he was just another biggot. The US & Japan only wanted to arrest him because he flagrently broke the law, and not for any higher cause, but only because he felt he was above it. In fact they went out of their way specifically to give him fair warning.

Incidentally given that dispite his litteral millions in winning over the years he his estate is estimated at less then one-million dollars. It is highly likely that he bought his freedom to Iceland with that money.

I understand we are looking at this from two very different view points but I find it hard to respect someone who's reason for no “towing the party line” was the fact that he was advocating genocide. They are not personal views when a man publicly spews them for years. In fact was we talk I am suddenly reminded of the conversation between Rorschach and some of the other characters in the Watchmen.

You know Ghandi was his own man too who fought the establishment and stood up as an individual and was hated too. I'd suggest he deserves a lot more respect the Bobby Fischer. He did run away from the consiquencees of his actions and he tried to make his home a better place, which I don't think can be said for Bobby.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
ozoneocean at 2:07PM, Feb. 6, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,789
joined: 1-2-2006
No EEN. The Jewish stuff? Whatever, it's the ranting of a foolish fellow who was very much a Jew himself, at least by birth. If he's go parental issues, what of it? He wasn't the first. lol!
Personal issues is how I look at that. He wasn't Hitler ;)

He was a Cold War hero where those others were not, because he was a visible symbol to millions. Spys did nothing that anyone saw, they were NOT heroes but villains to a man. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 2:26PM, Feb. 6, 2008
(offline)
posts: 395
joined: 1-16-2006
Ozone,

Your casual disregard for bigotry chills me to the bone. Having been a victem of it I can tell you exactly what of it. It is terrible, terrible thing that can horribly scar people. You don't have to be Hitler to hurt and scar people. You can just be the guy down the street or the voice on the radio.

How a person deals with his parents is a personal issue. What message someone publicly puts out to the world is anything but personal.

I don't know where you are getting this spy stuff from but Edward R. Murrow was and IS a hero of both WWII and the Cold War. He was and is a visible symbol to millions even after his death and unlike Bobby he fought against the establishment instead of running away from it. And more importantly he changed the establishment.

Bobby was nothing more then a cold war celebrity flaunted by the US. Edward R. Murrow did something meaningful in playing a critical role in stopping the witch hunting for spys which was going on in the US at that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_R._Murrow

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
ozoneocean at 2:53PM, Feb. 6, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,789
joined: 1-2-2006
Ok, I get that aspect of Murrow, but he's still not the same kind of thing.
Fischer was a symbol with the full weight of the hopes of a good part of the entire Western world on his back.

It's a different thing to Murrow, very much so.

The bigotry? No, I don't see it as that issue at all. If I come across a Chinese man who viciously hate all Chinese people I don't think “oh he's an evil man who should be despised.” I think “that guy has something very wrong with him and I feel sorry for whatever made him that way”.
Same with African or Indian people who hate their cultures, countries and fellow peoples.

And exactly the same with Fischer. It'd be different if he didn't have the family connection, but since he does, it's not evil, but just sad.

I repeat, he wasn't Hitler, it's silly to think of him like that. Is it because he looks the same as any European that you can so easily slot him into the antisemetic bigot role? That's a sort of racialism in itself. What if he was a dark skinned Kenyan who hated his fellow Kenyans for whatever reason? You wouldn't jump at the term “bigot” then would you? Well most people wouldn't, they'd think the guy needed help. I don't see how it's different with Fischer just because Jewish people look European. Would he need to have side curls and the Orthodox black gear to make his his feelings for understandable?

Seems to me more a case of casual ignorance, double standards, or trying to be too PC…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 7:41PM, Feb. 6, 2008
(offline)
posts: 395
joined: 1-16-2006
No Neil Armstrong was a symbol with the full wight and hopes of the western world. Bobby was a icon held up as sign of supposed western superiority. All Bobby did was show up and play chess, something he was going to do anyway and it made him a celebrity and a figurehead. Not the terribly brave or selfless work that normally goes with the world hero nor the personal sacrifice or risk that define heroics. Fame doesn't make you a hero, it just makes you famous.

You are right it is a different thing with Murrow, a far more nobel one. I can see that for whatever reason you are emotionally invested in Bobby Fischer, but that does change the facts of his life. Ozone, I in all seriousness and without sarcasm ask you, why are you so keen to give people a free ride on their actions? Why is it so important to you to try and explain away Bobby's calls for hate crimes and genocide?

If a chinese man viciously hates other chinese people he is still a bigot. We all grow up with issues but at a certain point a person has to take responsibility for their actions. Fischer chose to be a bigot. You are more than welcome to pity him and say he had problems, but that does absolve a person from their actions. Why does someone's childhood give them the right to hate an entire race? What about personal responsibility? What about each man choosing their own actions.

He wasn't Hitler, I never said he was, but he was a bigot who advocated hate, racism and violence. It is a fact and it is silly to try and rationalize that away. I'm not slotting him into anything he didn't proudly proclaimed in his own life time.

It is a radical to call someone who says (the United States) is “a farce controlled by dirty, hook-nosed, circumcised Jew bastards.” a bigot? Does that really sound like he is calling out the US or spewing anti-jew hate? Is this really the message you want to praise, Ozone? If it is radical to stand up and say that is wrong then I'll gladly add radical to my list of labels.

If a anyone hates an entire race, his own or any other that is racism and bigotry. In your example yes I would absolutely call it bigotry because that is exactly what it is. Ask that man's neighbors, the victims of his hate speech (or worse) if he was a bigot? Most would say yes. People have turned on their own races through out history all it takes is a single thought “I'm different from them”. Bobby certainly didn't think of himself as Jewish and the fact that his parents were in no way gives him a free ride.

Do bigots need help? Absolutely. However we should also condemn the message at every turn not try and justify it with exscuses for them. You are not helping these attempts to exscuse their behavior or quiet their detractors. Rapists probably need help too, but that does excuse their actions or undo the harm they've done. Just because someone needs help doesn't make them a victim nor does it exscuse them from their actions.

This has nothing to do with europeans or jews. This has to do with intolerance and human rights.

Tell me honestly Ozone, have you ever been beaten up for the color of your skin? Have you ever been ostrasized but of what you were not who you were? Have you ever been threatened for standing up for someone of a different race and called a race traitor or not a real member of your race? Did you ever have someone come up to you with a bike chain and try be beat you in the skull with it so you had to run to a traffic stop where the police where?

Yes? No?

Well I have and so did others who came before me and we didn't become racists because of it. You are not doing anyone favors here by trying to say we should all feel sorry for bigots and thusly should simply ignore their message because they had crappy childhoods. It took good people standing up to hate to grant the level of equality we have today and it is a fight that is still going on today all across the globe. Feel sorry for whomever you want, compassion and forgivness and mercy move the world, progress certainly has never been made with more hate; but don't you dare try and excuse bigotry for any reason because that is a step in the wrong direction.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
ozoneocean at 10:05PM, Feb. 6, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,789
joined: 1-2-2006
Sorry EEN, you're still talking about bigotry and actions of violence or whatever, and all I'm seeing with the guy is the idiot ravings of a man who hated himself, his own family and other things related to him.

It's different for someone else, but to put that label on people that close to the situation, no matter what words come out of their mouths shows little willingness to understand them and more willingness to just react to what they say. Always remember this is about what is said, nothing else, no other connotations, and in that context is ALL: this is the same reason you don't call rap singers murdering bigoted racialists for what they sing about, that'd not be true. ;)

I also have to say the the willingness to cut the man some slack given this perspective doesn't indicate an endorsement of his ravings.

Look we're just both going to have to agree to disagree. I understand you're strongly tied to those views, but I see them as being a little inflexible. Maybe I've just known quite a few complex and damaged people in my life with views conflicting with their backgrounds and maybe that's helped me to see past what people say and focus on why they say it (when I'm aware of the background).

I don't see any reason to keep going with this, we realise we don't agree with each other and I think we should stop before it becomes personal. :)
______________________________________________________
Ok, by agreement with Nick, I'm looking this. ^_^
We each stick to our own positions and nothing gets personal.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved