General Discussion

Boycotting China?
kyupol at 6:12PM, April 4, 2008
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I just cant do that if everything is made in China.

Damn commies. Look at what they're doing to Tibet. :(
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
RentAThug at 6:53PM, April 4, 2008
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Yeah, the whole “boycotting China” thing really doesn't work unless everybody is willing to give up “new stuff”. Which they aren't.


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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:05PM
n_y_japlander at 8:16AM, April 7, 2008
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Boycotting China is one thing… but the sh@t I'm seeing on the news…

People in France and England are attepting to take, put out, or F with the Olympic flame… This is a flame of unity, it represents the games, NOT CHINA!!!! I wish people would get it in to their heads! China is hosting the games, it did not start them, and the choice was made a few years ago,… so why boycott now?

Now I'm not saying that China is OK by doing what they are to the Tibet… but to boycott the olympics is like kicking a soldier in the balls for what Bush has done..

By all means boycott China, not the olympic games!

last edited on July 14, 2011 2:19PM
crocty at 9:44AM, April 7, 2008
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Wait…
When did this happen!?
'Cause that's pretty stupid…
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Custard Trout at 10:01AM, April 7, 2008
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It's amazing how people on this country (England) think Americans are a gaggle of hooting morons, and then do that.

Hey crocty, are you ashamed too?
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:00PM
DAJB at 10:14AM, April 7, 2008
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It's kind of interesting … Sadly people forget or are to ignorant to learn from past mistakes.

I don't know how many people here are old enough to remember the boycotting of the Olympic Games in the Soviet Union, but it's worth looking at the effects that had. Absolutely none on the USSR's human rights violations, although it did crush the dreams of many athletes who'd spent years preparing for Games and were then denied the opportunity to compete.

If these protesters were serious about letting China know how the West feels, they'd campaign for a ban on commercial investment, not a sporting event.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
freefall_drift at 11:34AM, April 7, 2008
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If these protesters were serious about letting China know how the West feels, they'd campaign for a ban on commercial investment, not a sporting event.
And risk pissing off our corporate masters? I think not!
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
Frostflowers at 11:40AM, April 7, 2008
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It's really too late to boycott the Chinese Olympics. Even if we did, it would change anything. Personally, I'm of the opinion that they shouldn't have gotten the Olympics in the first place, but the decision was made years ago, so riots and stealing the Olympic flame isn't going to achieve anything.

The good thing about it, though, is that it swings focus back on what China is really up to. It's been too quiet lately. We just hear “Oooh, the Chinese government sentences more people to death every year than the rest of the world put together!” but that's such a big and shapeless statement that we aren't sure how to handle it. Now, though, we hear specifics, and it's easier to handle specifics.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
crocty at 12:57PM, April 7, 2008
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Custard Trout
It's amazing how people on this country (England) think Americans are a gaggle of hooting morons, and then do that.

Hey crocty, are you ashamed too?
If this is all true then yes.
I mean, what? Are the Chinese army gonna kill all the athletes 'er something!?

(._.)
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:51AM
ozoneocean at 10:11PM, April 7, 2008
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One thing the nasty protests do: They embarrass China.
China is amazingly, incredibly concerned about it's public image.

I think it's all rather tawdry myself, but people will do what they will do. And China deserves to be a bit on the defensive over the ongoing crap with all their minorities.- the assimilated populations in old invaded territories.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
DAJB at 12:34AM, April 8, 2008
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Yeah, they do embarrass China. But not enough to persuade them to change their ways. They know the big money is still going to roll in, whatever happens to the Olympic torch. The companies investing in China see it as such a huge market that they aren't going to be dissuaded by this kind of protest. They already know what's going on and they're investing regardless.

The real shame is that, no matter how well-intentioned, these protests may even be counter-productive. When I see the news reports about Tibet, I tend to think that the Chinese authorities are monsters. But when I see the news reports showing physical attacks on the Olympic torch-bearers, I just think the protesters are morons.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
ozoneocean at 12:49AM, April 8, 2008
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Oh, they're twits alight.
But companies aren't the issue. China is still ruled very much by the communist elite. And they do care very much what happens. What people want to do is annoy them, which it will do, and hopefully force some awareness on the Chinese population in general of what is happening. Media is not free in China and people have very little awareness of the things we do. ;)

It's a similar principal to terrorism in a way…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
mishi_hime at 12:56AM, April 8, 2008
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Oh god not this again.
When people say something as laughable as boycotting China, it takes effort to hold back my “youre a moron” speech. If we didn't have just about everything made in China, what do you think you'd be paying? Do you realize where most of your things are made? Idiots! People in America are so oblivious to reality.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:03PM
ozoneocean at 1:08AM, April 8, 2008
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mishi_hime
Oh god not this again.
That's why it's just in the thread title and most of the conversation is about the disruption of the Olympic torch relay… :(
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
Fluffy Snot Monster at 4:47AM, April 8, 2008
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Given that nearly everything is made in China, the only way to boycott it would be to walk around completely naked everywhere, and never use most modern appliances.

I think China should take notice of the demonstrations. They most likely wouldn't have happened if China wasn't so harsh on the countries it's integrated into itself.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:30PM
kyupol at 3:50PM, April 8, 2008
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Given that nearly everything is made in China, the only way to boycott it would be to walk around completely naked everywhere, and never use most modern appliances.

I think China should take notice of the demonstrations. They most likely wouldn't have happened if China wasn't so harsh on the countries it's integrated into itself.

It all started with a few greedy elites who are obsessed with cheap labor.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
studioerlik at 7:10AM, April 10, 2008
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The fact is that the Olympic comitee shouldn't have accepted that the games are held there in the first place.

If I understood well at the time China had promised to improve the human rights situation in the time to the Olympics, however the promised improvement were not really delivered.

I can understand how the protesters feel betrayed: the Olympics bring to the hosting country not only a substantial financial boost, but also some prestige and recongnition on the international scene. The current situation is that with the Olympics the international community is giving some seal of approval to China, which is not fully acceptable.

Now I don't think we should fully boycott the Olympics, but we should probably boycott the opening ceremony (as some heads of states such as Gordon brown have suggested) just to make clear that the international community doesn't approve what is happening in china.

As for boycotting Chinese product, that would probably be the most effective solutionand, it is probably possible to reduce the amount we buy from them: buy Italian shoes instead of Chinese ones even if there are a bit more expensive, not replace our china produced gadgets every year etc… However it is probably not possible to boycott them completelly as the West is now very dependant on cheap labor.

I have to admit it's a bit our (the west) fault: when we buy cheap product that couldn't be produced at that price if the people manufacturing them earned a decent salary we should be conscious that we are probably exploiting some poor peoples somewhere…



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last edited on July 14, 2011 4:00PM
amanda at 7:22AM, April 10, 2008
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I seem to recall the idea of “boycotting France” in people's heads not too long ago - yeah…when you couldn't order “French Fries” in Texas anymore - they were “Freedom Fries.” (And French Fries aren't even FRENCH!) Which harkens back to the day when you had “liberty lettuce” instead of “cabbage.” Ugh. It's just as laughable. We're just too dependent on assembly-line-manufactured goods, and (most) Americans are too prideful and snooty to work the jobs that are being outsourced to China anyway. Given that, I can't really blame the companies for outsourcing.

That's my two cents, and it has nothing to do with the Olympics.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:50AM
imshard at 3:30PM, April 10, 2008
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Boycotting the Olympics is a symbolic gesture, not a practical concern. Threatening physical violence and dumb mobs of temporary supporters against torch-carriers is stupid though. Really stupid. It actually hurts the anti-china movement to see that kind of thing on the news. I know its too late for it though this kind of thing should have happened before China was selected. Now that the site can't be changed we should allow the athletes and staff to participate. However, we don't have to watch, buy into or acknowledge the events in any way.

For those who are serious on the matter there has been an ongoing multinational boycott of China for many years. Its easier than you'd think, it can be expensive sometimes and very often you have to go without. Yet is is entirely possible to not buy Chinese-made products. I'm a proud member of the free Tibet movement, and the last thing I bought at department store (I privately think of them as Chinese plastic product emporiums), was a set of American forged wrenches two years ago from a Sears.

Not everybody can afford to do it and thats fine. But there is way more than one reason to boycott China. Including Economic independence, Human rights, and ecological protection to say the least.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
shaneronzio at 6:01AM, April 11, 2008
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China has to change China.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
ozoneocean at 6:15AM, April 11, 2008
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Sad to say, but I agree with others: Boycotts won't have any effect at all unless they're on a massive scale.

And in the end it's probably best that they aren't. The best way to improve the situation in China is by letting them succeed, slowly making the old political system there more and more irrelevant until the country changes from within, as Shaneronzio suggests. :)

Things like the brutish disruption of the torch rally have more effect than any boycott: They embarrass and annoy the Chinese administration and the population, helping to force awareness on them that the human rights issues are widely known about and not approved of in the west.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
Product Placement at 6:20AM, April 11, 2008
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It's amazing how people on this country (England) think Americans are a gaggle of hooting morons, and then do that.

Well… in their defense it also happened in France and then again in America.
Those were my two cents.
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mlai at 10:15AM, April 11, 2008
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There is absolutely no way in hell for China to give up its rule over Tibet. Look at the bruhaha China has over a tiny little island called Taiwan. You think it's gonna give up Tibet, a piece of land roughly the size of mainland China, right on its western border? The day China lets Tibet go is the day China breaks up into tiny little pieces like the USSR.

To China, Tibetan separatists are no different from US homebrew terrorists like Tim McVeigh or the Waco wackos. On top of that, China has an ancient intimate history with Tibet that European and New World nations have absolutely no say over, and China also vividly remembers its “century of humiliation” brought about by the Europeans. China, either on the gov't front or the grass roots front, will never bow to European/USA pressure over Tibet.

You think American rednecks are ignorant and stubbornly patriotic? You've never met the Chinese peasants and working class.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
Memmy at 12:03PM, April 11, 2008
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I have nothing against China hosting the Olympic games. Its not the games because its a world event and all countries is involved with it, not just China.. I do have problem with China over Tibet and many many other issues that China needs to deal with. Its something that China need to learn to fix because well… China is still coming out old age despite all the advances in techologies.

The only issue I can think of anything relating with China Olympic is that they're not willing to do live broadcast of the event. China rather edit and mess with the tapes than to let it live world wide which gives me (and many others) the wrong impression of China that they're vain arrogant little pricks with no regard for human rights and something to hide. I just think they should be open and let us see the real China and understand them better, not less. Then perhap, the world wont be so… against China.

Thats my two cents.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:59PM
ozoneocean at 8:05AM, April 12, 2008
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mlai
On top of that, China has an ancient intimate history with Tibet
In a way… but not the way they claim. China is made up of a lot of annexed territory. They even invented the “Han Chinese” term in order to accommodate the “other” kinds of Chinese… That'd be like Britain annexing mainland Europe and calling themselves “Island” British and the annexed peoples “European British” lol!

The Mongols had an intimate history with Tibet. Then a hundred or so years later they took over China. That's the main link, a total third party. After that all China had there were some garrisons and token administration. Mao is the prime mover here, without him, this wouldn't have been an issue, all before him regarding Tibet is exaggeration for propaganda.
-The Mongols could have done the same thing to Nepal or Bhutan and today they'd just be “another kind of Chinese” :)

—————————————
Oh you're right though, they'll never give it up. They're more fervent than the former Yugoslavs when it comes to that stuff (Tibet has a case 1000x stronger than Kosovo could ever hope to), and the land has resources important to China's growth.
I say what's best is to always make them aware of people's feelings regarding it, but also give them the space, time, support, and resources to grow. That's the most likely way for Tibetans to benefit: the government will change to be a little freer, and people's lives will continue to improve generally. And that's a better hope for them than supporting nationalism, using human rights as a pretext (which just undermines the concept of human rights).
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
DAJB at 8:36AM, April 13, 2008
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That'd be like Britain annexing mainland Europe and calling themselves “Island” British and the annexed peoples “European British” lol!
Well, we do call them “Continental” Europeans, so we're half-way there!
;)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
lothar at 6:47AM, April 17, 2008
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Americans are too prideful and snooty to work the jobs that are being outsourced to China anyway. Given that, I can't really blame the companies for outsourcing.
is it pridefull and snooty to want more than 2$ a day and work less than 12 hours a day 7 days a week?


last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
imshard at 12:25PM, April 17, 2008
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No. Its just takes a lot more than $2 an hour to make goods in the USA. Not only do you have to pay an American factory worker an average $10 more per hour, but there are extra expenses. Insurance, benefits, vacation time, disability, counseling, taxes, etc. None of these things are required for a Chinese worker. While wages have been going up there, most industries in China have a 50% or higher turnover rate. Plus facilities are more expensive in the US, and federal quality controls are profit-prohibitive. The building cost to design a facility, buy the land, and build it to safety standards is ridiculously high. Especially since Chinese facilities are dirt cheap, sometimes even free or pre-existing with few or no building codes or employee safety standards to speak of. Additionally one of the reasons there have been so many recalls is because China has practically no product safety laws to speak of. This means months can be cut out of safety testing times and new products can go into production almost overnight with minimal time needed for re-tooling.

AkA, there would be no trouble in finding American workers, its just more pricey.
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