General Discussion

Breaking DD's 'Glass Ceiling'
maciapaladin at 5:02PM, June 28, 2007
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skoolmunkee speaks true, my friends. Keep in mind that Platinum's Comic Book Challenges are open to one and all. So everyone has a CHANCE to get corporate sponsorship. They never said: "We'll take anyone… except that guy!"
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:50PM
strong414bad at 5:35PM, June 28, 2007
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TnTComic
Gah….

As it applies to the conversation, “minorities” are the comics that aren't in the top tier. Okay?

Aren't they technically majorities?
Why hello there.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:59PM
wyldflowa at 6:00PM, June 28, 2007
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maciapaladin
skoolmunkee speaks true, my friends. Keep in mind that Platinum's Comic Book Challenges are open to one and all. So everyone has a CHANCE to get corporate sponsorship.
Well, if you've got the money and the time to travel to San Diego at the drop of a hat maybe. ;) But it is true, everyone has an even chance at these things… being a reliable and talented artist helps things all the more. The winners worked their way up from the bottom:
djcoffman
Yeah, I've had a few people accuse me of being in the top 5 because i'm signed with Platinum or something– that's not so. We did that by putting out a M-F comic and pimping all over the place and keeping the readership coming back with our Hero-Gram announcements, books, etc.
If DJ hadn't worked so hard to keep his comic afloat when he WASN'T being sponsored by PS then he probably wouldn't have won the contest… even if he won on the idea alone if he didn't have a hardworking and persistant personality then nothing more would have became of it. His ads wouldn't be all over the place and he wouldn't have books coming out; he would have just been a name on a plaque on a wall somewhere as the “2006 winner” and that would be it. But he's worked as hard as anyone, if not harder, and he deserves good things! (sorry to use you as an example DJ!)

TnTComic
Gah….

As it applies to the conversation, “minorities” are the comics that aren't in the top tier. Okay?
I don't get what you mean by this. So by comics not in the top tier do you mean comics that don't get many pageviews or comics that have weak content/artwork? If you mean weak content then surely they're not going to ever get into the top tier until they have better content? Not everyone can be at the top you know - only those whose work stands out. :( We could give a gold star to everyone who makes an effort but then we'd all be equal again anyway so there would be no point… this argument is going nowhere; there will always be better and worse people than you. You just need to either accept your order in things or work harder to get yourself higher.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:52PM
Red Slayer at 6:16PM, June 28, 2007
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strong414bad
TnTComic
Gah….

As it applies to the conversation, “minorities” are the comics that aren't in the top tier. Okay?

Aren't they technically majorities?
Statistically, yes.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
Eviltwinpixie at 6:28PM, June 28, 2007
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I agree with others about Hero By Night. It would be hard to say, with the ads and Platinum's sponsorship basically saying “we recommend this comic” that it doesn't have an advantage over other comics… but I don't think for a second it's an “unfair” advantage. He won that contest fair and square. He won that opportunity because he took a chance and had what it took, and I wish him every success. To call it unfair seems sort of like sour grapes, really.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:24PM
maciapaladin at 6:33PM, June 28, 2007
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Totally. He was part of a legitimate contest that was open to all. And on top of that, let's not forget that DJ's been around for ages doing his own thing, like Yirmumah! and so on. He's networked with other artists and writers. In fact, DJ's exhibited all of the qualities that someone who got to the top the hard way SHOULD. Kudos.

But that's my point: people can't call it unfair if he won a contest by being the best at something that was open to all. Good point, Evil. :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:50PM
SilverWordz at 6:58PM, June 28, 2007
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I've been following this thread from the beginning but I haven't chimed in because honestly I don't have really strong opinions on the question about favoritism or the glass ceiling theory. And pretty much the opinions I do have are much better expressed by some of the people already posting.

About the idea of favoritism, it hadn't really occurred to me. I figured the people who were at the top of the list had worked hard to get there, or had content that really stood out. I still kinda feel that way. I realize some people got there with no advertising, some people used a lot of advertising, but I think regardless of that, if there's nothing there worth reading, eventually even advertising won't help you. And don't get me wrong, I'm not anti advertising, I work in advertising. Bottom line is if the product sucks, you won't get return customers. So if you make it to the top, you must have a product that people want. Each product is probably unique in how it reached that formula.

I originally joined DD for the sole purpose of promoting my boyfriends comic. Shortly after joining, I convinced a couple good friends to also put their work up here on DD, so now I'm all about promoting them as well. Because of an offhand comment I made in a post here, someone even encouraged me to start my own comic, and on a whim I did, something I never had really thought I'd do. I don't consider myself an artist or writer here, I'm just having fun. I go along with the people who say they're happy just to put their stuff here and have even a couple readers. That's me. I update every day because I have all of 25 people who have actually faved me. If I subtract my friends and family who are “obligated” to read, that makes 20 complete strangers, who actually found my goofy comic interesting enough to want to catch the updates. That blows my mind and I'm very grateful to them for being so supportive and kind.

I haven't been around here long, so I can't comment on how the community used to be, and how it's changed, but one of the reasons I convinced my friends to join up and why I've pretty much thrown myself head first into DD is because of the community here. I've never looked at some of the other comic community sites, but the support I've found here is amazing. I don't think I need to look elsewhere.

I really think this place is awesome. The idea that we have so many talented people each doing their own thing, while simultaneously reading and commenting and critiquing other peoples stuff… the whole thing just feels like a great place for creative people to hang out. Forgive me for sounding mushy but I think it's a very nurturing thing. That being said, the issues about how to strengthen the community, and how to support each other, are what really interest me about this topic. marine's post really hit home with me in the points he made about supporting and recommending each other. I'd like to see the anthologies brought back. I was thrilled when I caught the Lola update today and saw alejkhan had started a new thing where in the update had done a mini review to support another comic, Nightmistress. I'm a huge fan of some of the community projects like Fusion, because they're fun, and it brings some of the comic creators together in unique ways. More people should get involved with this kinda of stuff!

I realize there are creators here who are very serious about taking their comics to the next level, whatever that level is. So I guess not everyone is into the community vibe but I think that success for one comic here, is success for us all.

I think I'm rambling now….
Anyway, just wanted to finally chime in.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:37PM
djcoffman at 8:00PM, June 28, 2007
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Someone said about people being able to afford to go to San Diego at the drop of a hat– I'd like to say, I couldn't afford it last year, but I took a shot, spent my last 1200 bucks I had saved up for my Yirmumah comic's printing fund, and only had 7 days notice to get out there.

Charby is the perfect example of someone who isn't sponsored or advertised, but she's still at the top of the list. Platinum ran ads for Cowboys and Aliens for a long time in prime spots, but it still didn't stay in that top 5 read spot, but the press about the movie brought an influx of people reading which boosted it in the “most read” spot.

While “corporate” sponsorship is nice, it doesn't guarantee success or continued readership where they'll come back everyday. Again, Charby did all that without any help or advertising. Do good comics consistently, you'll have a massive awesome archive to sift through, etc. That's all there is too it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:12PM
SteveMyers22 at 2:15AM, June 29, 2007
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Do good comics consistently, you'll have a massive awesome archive to sift through, etc. That's all there is too it.

This thread continues to be a very interesting read. The above quote has now been said by I believe 3 or 4 of the creators involved in some of the most read comics on the site. It was also something said frequently at Wizard World Philly. And it's also the mantra I kept chanting when I kicked my own butt to get back to the drawing board and restart my comic. I'm detecting a theme here.

:)

Of course I didn't even know I had a stats page until very recently. So, uh, yeah … I'm really just kind of focused on doing my comic right now. My personal goal is to get some pages done. Get some stories told that I've been sitting on for 5+ years.

But thanks again everyone for the helpful advice and insight.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:58PM
TnTComic at 3:16AM, June 29, 2007
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wyldflowa
TnTComic
Gah….

As it applies to the conversation, “minorities” are the comics that aren't in the top tier. Okay?
I don't get what you mean by this.

What I mean by it is somebody has to be the minority for the analogy to make any sense. And its not the big dogs.

That said, the idea is bullshit. Nobody is holding anybody down. If anything, people are generally eager to help up-and-comers when they produce quality work. And the idea that it takes money is bunk, too. Money can't buy you talent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
bongotezz at 9:24AM, July 4, 2007
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here's what i like about comics and what keeps me reading. i try to do this in my comics.

1) interesting characters - you should try and make characters that are diverse enough so that people can relate to one of them. if all your characters are similar then you will limit who latches onto your comic because of characters.

2) hide stuff you like in the comics - i like to sneak in pop culture refrences into my comics from time to time to see if anyone notices. sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. it makes it fun for me to try and sneak stuff past my readers. i've already seen this kind of thing in superchum and he's only got 4 pages so far. it's also why i loved farscape so much.

3) running gags (if your comic is humerous) - running gags rule for this reason they are funny so new readers will laugh at them but long time fans will get the “in joke” In issue 26 of superteam rapid got gum on his shoe and wiped it on the sign post for the bus stop. i kept the gum there for the next issue (27) and the next time they used the bus (issue 51) it was still there. i have several other running gags planned but i need more pages to put them in. i also like to hide funny stuff in plain sight to see if people notice. on the computer screens i had descriptions of the villains that were small. they were just readable at the size i made them. they weren't needed to make the comic funny but were extra laughs for people that spotted them and squinted hard to read them. someone actually did.

4) put hard work and consistency in your comics. if your comic is supposed to be funny then try and make it funny. if it's supposed to have a serious story line then make sure you write it well. update on time and avoid hiatuses. putting a lot of filler pages in is a cop out. if you really have that much filler then start a second comic for the filler stuff and call it “filler for (insert name of comic)” a lot of pages does get you more page views if someone new spots your comic but i tend to stop reading comics that rely on filler to make deadlines or pad the page number.

5) visit this post
http://www.drunkduck.com/community/view_topic.php?tid=31200&cid=234
Say Something Critically Helpful About the Comic Belonging to the Person Above You

the guy that started this is a genious. read what people say about the comics there. it can provide insight on your own comic or if you're brave enough post your own for criticism.

6) have people read your comic as a test audience. i got 2 guys that read both the scripts when i write them and the comics as i make them. they often provide feedback that i like and i make changes to the comics based on their feedback. you dont have to take all their advice but let them know that before you have them start giving advice so they dont get pissed when you dont take it.

7) time - only time will tell if your comic will achieve the audience needed to be a big contender. good comics tend to spread by word of mouth and links emailed to friends. although ads will also help. ozone has ads for pinky TA and his page views went up. i saw them on webcomicslist.net and was like wow i read that comic. it's a great idea if you can afford it. if he gets 1000 hits from new readers and only 10% (probablly closer to 99%) like his comic enough to favorite it he just got 100 new readers. if you can't afford to buy ads then advertise for free. i often sign up for superhero message boards to post my comics in the fan art section with links to my site. there are tons of other ways to advertise for free. i fold up printed copies of my comics and mail them back to credit card companies when they send you those pre paid envelopes to sign up for new credit cards. i spam them back. :)

well, that's all i can think of right now. and maybe writing this post will get me more readers too. my comic rocks and everyone should read it :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:32AM
SteveMyers22 at 10:33PM, July 5, 2007
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bongotezz
my comic rocks and everyone should read it :)

This is truth.

Besides, everyone loves cupcakes!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:58PM

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