Debate and Discussion

BUSH gonna get impeached?
Cthulhu at 5:50PM, May 7, 2007
(online)
posts: 5,095
joined: 4-18-2006
Sorry for the late reply…

Well, yeah there were many car bombs, and kamakazi-type attacks, but let's just imagine that even 50,000 of the 100,000 were all car bombs, and the sort.

That would still leave 50,000 deaths because of America simply kicking their asses

Trust me, the rest of us are cheering on U.S.A.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:55AM
Phantom Penguin at 5:57PM, May 7, 2007
(offline)
posts: 1,075
joined: 1-6-2006
As someone who has been there and helped inflict alot of the damage in a few of the citys I admitt when it came to a huge fight we stopped aiming.

In Fallujah we destroy whole buildings when we kept taking fire from it.
But in that case we told the city's people to leave because a HUGE offensive was coming.

Also in that same city we were regularly attacked by groups numbering over 100. So many more people then you would imagine were shooting at us.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
subcultured at 6:06PM, May 7, 2007
(online)
posts: 5,392
joined: 1-7-2006
so yer saying, if soldiers like penguin dies, it's okay?
all is well since america is still kicking ass.

i refuse to accept that.
all is not well, when american lives or even human lives are extinguish for oil corporate gain. The gulf war is not a just war like WW2 was. i mean really..saddam taking over the world? a lil country with no pull or funds is going to do that?

i would say n. korea is more dangerous than iraq was.
tribal warfare has been around africa for a long time….look at rawanda, so did we go in with out armies and flatten them?

no. we let them inact a genocide with lil assistance from the US for those victims.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM
Phantom Penguin at 6:12PM, May 7, 2007
(offline)
posts: 1,075
joined: 1-6-2006
If it was up to me we would have troops in Sudan helping the people of Darfur.

But I doubt that will ever happen.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
subcultured at 6:20PM, May 7, 2007
(online)
posts: 5,392
joined: 1-7-2006
Cthulhu
Trust me, the rest of us are cheering on U.S.A.

no, we are not












J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM
Cthulhu at 3:12AM, May 8, 2007
(online)
posts: 5,095
joined: 4-18-2006
I'm talking about other countries.

Hopefully there more that are dead, the less there are to screw up the middle-east even more.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:55AM
subcultured at 4:00AM, May 8, 2007
(online)
posts: 5,392
joined: 1-7-2006
it's easy for other countries to cheer in the sidelines, since it's not thier country's men and women dying.


and no, they are not

J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM
ZeroVX at 3:30PM, May 8, 2007
(online)
posts: 4,109
joined: 5-28-2006
Cthulhu
I'm talking about other countries.

Hopefully there more that are dead, the less there are to screw up the middle-east even more.

I'm sorry, did you just say that it was good that people are dying?

OK, this may be rude, but you should consider therapy.

Innocent people dying, under any curcumstances, is not good.

Well, now I'm pissed. Thanks a lot. :mad:
“If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost 100,000 people…..would you really wanna know?”

V for Vendetta, V.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:57PM
ccs1989 at 4:06PM, May 8, 2007
(online)
posts: 2,656
joined: 1-2-2006
Cthulhu
Trust me, the rest of us are cheering on U.S.A.

If more countries were supporting our actions, more countries would be supporting us in Iraq. So far we've sort of got Britain supporting us, but not really. Other than that? Nada.

Every other country in the world is not supporting us in Iraq. If they had been, the UN would have supported our invasion and there would be more nations helping us in Iraq.
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
Phantom Penguin at 8:47AM, May 9, 2007
(offline)
posts: 1,075
joined: 1-6-2006
More nations then you think have soldiers in Iraq. Does that mean the people of those countries support us? No.

Heres some of the countries I remember working with:

-Azerbjian
-Germany
-Poland
-French Foriegn Legionarries
-Brits
-Aussies
-canadians
-Japan
-Armenia

So a bit more then people would think.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
shaneronzio at 10:59AM, May 9, 2007
(online)
posts: 497
joined: 12-4-2006
forum
BUSH gonna get impeached? » Reply
not gonna happen
Current Project:CROSS WORLDS NEXUS
Updates Monday, Wenzday & FRIDAY
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:32PM
Phantom Penguin at 11:20AM, May 9, 2007
(offline)
posts: 1,075
joined: 1-6-2006
ian_feverdream
But I thought the amount of troops they committed was only a token amount.
According to wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_force_in_Iraq

Active Troops
United States: 250,000 invasion–145,000 current (4/07)
United Kingdom: 45,000 invasion–7,100 current (2/07)
Poland: 194 invasion–2,500 peak–900 current (2/07)
Australia: 2,000 invasion–638 current (2/07)
Denmark: 300 invasion–460 current (2/07)

Not impressive support.

I still think Bush should be impeached for spying on Americans. If a democrat had been doing that, the conservatives would be going nuts. What would Limbaugh have done if Hillary had been doing that? I hate the double standards.
People did freak out about it. But at the time congress was republican. So nothing happend.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
shaneronzio at 10:47AM, May 11, 2007
(online)
posts: 497
joined: 12-4-2006
What Frightens me most of this administrations “war” is the way it is being handled.
Alot of unnecessary U.S. troop movements, a lack of creativity in thier procedures makes for a predictable Army, and if we become too predictable, than weaknesses become Apparent…almost tempting the enemy to converge and attack.

Overconfidence is our enemy.
It concerns me that we have over 3000 American Casualties, but, with staying predictable and leaveing our dudes in harms way could produce a disaster like
THE SOMME

July 1, 1916…
In one morning 19,000 dead, the worst disaster in British History.

Let's hope that never happens.



Current Project:CROSS WORLDS NEXUS
Updates Monday, Wenzday & FRIDAY
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:32PM
Phantom Penguin at 12:56PM, May 11, 2007
(offline)
posts: 1,075
joined: 1-6-2006
A day like The Somme in Iraq? I hope your kidding. The insurgents are effective BECAUSE they don't get together and attack in large groups, because that is our kind of war, and they won't fight it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
Vagabond at 2:38PM, May 11, 2007
(online)
posts: 93
joined: 1-30-2006
… When will trench warfare casualties = guerilla warfare casualties?
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
shaneronzio at 5:47PM, May 11, 2007
(online)
posts: 497
joined: 12-4-2006
It is a different time with different ways of takeing out LARGE NUMBERS of people.

Lets face the facts…there are ALOT of Nasty bad things left over from the Cold War.
Germ Warfare, for one…not to mention the dreaded Suitcase Nuke.


If One of these suicidal Madmen would do the unthinkable…it doesn't matter what sort of armor our guys got.

I am not trying to scare any one, but, Mutual Assured Distruction was NOT limited to Nuclear Weapons.

Trench warfare is a thing of the past, yes, but…it is the Unexpected that can cause a modern Disaster.
Like in that battle, I am sure that the British generals did not intentionally send all those men to thier death…no, it was the fog of war that got them.


I am thankful that we have the finest tactitions working for our armed forces, I know that they will do everything they can to keep our guys safe.

I just Don't like the way it is being handled.
Too Risky.


Current Project:CROSS WORLDS NEXUS
Updates Monday, Wenzday & FRIDAY
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:32PM
ozoneocean at 8:54AM, May 12, 2007
(online)
posts: 24,788
joined: 1-2-2006
shaneronzio
In one morning 19,000 dead, the worst disaster in British History.

Let's hope that never happens.
Another thing though, to all intents and purposes this isn't a real war. Sure, there was an invasion, but the war ended a couple of years ago. They just call it that for two reasons now:
1). A hangover from the meaningless publicity catchphrase “War on terror”
2). In order to maintain the level of funding and public justification for the failing occupation.

You have a country under occupation with NO one organised resistance force in large enough numbers to be called an opposing army. Even with all these warring factions together they couldn't be called an opposing “army”. This isn't “war” by any definition of a real war, although it was at the point of invasion until the defeat of Iraq. What you have now is a tragic joke of a situation, MUCH more akin to "the troubles' in Ireland than even something like the last days of the Vietnam war. You have an imbecilic, tactically outclassed, moronic command in charge of a large force of excellently trained, well equipped you men and women who're involved in a task of brutal policing. They face various factions who would be just as happy to kill 250 of their own civilians as they would a single American servicemen, and even happier to kill each other. And yet they call it a war

Syria did better when they cleaned up Lebanon in the 80's.

You won't get 19,000 dead Americans in Iraq, not even after TEN years. What's happening over there just isn't that kind of thing… It'll keep on as it's been: 5 casualties here and there every two weeks or month or so. Look at Northern Ierland for your best guide to how these things go.

“War” is a word that's entirely inappropriate. It carries far too much baggage, romance, and implication. Besides not even being accurate. I'm mean, just the fact that it can evoke in people's minds ideas like “trench warfare” indicates how wrong the usage of the word “war” is, you should be think about hostile occupations instead. How did the Nazis run France after the defeat? How did Britain manage Northern Ireland? How did Syria stop the conflict on Lebanon? How did the Romans manage all those conquered Gallic towns? And perhaps the most successful of all: How did the USSR manage Hungary, Czechoslovakia etc, etc… -but don't follow Israel's example with the Palestinians, that's something else altogether and a good example of failure (ie. it's never going to get better, only stay the same or get worse because two peoples want the same land).
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:27PM
Triss at 7:56PM, May 12, 2007
(offline)
posts: 63
joined: 3-27-2007
ozoneocean
This isn't “war” by any definition of a real war, although it was at the point of invasion until the defeat of Iraq. What you have now is a tragic joke of a situation, MUCH more akin to "the troubles' in Ireland than even something like the last days of the Vietnam war.

What you have now is an occupation. An occupation that the US was and is unprepared for, and is now thouroughly entangled in. Calling it a war is nothing more than a scam to win the support of the American people. The phrase “occupation” implies a long-term, risky, complex stationing of troops while attempting to restore order to a ravaged country, a process that could take years. Unfortunately, we are not fighting a “war on terror”. We are merely conducting an “occupation that may or may not be on terror and is very difficult to terminate and pulling out now could mean collapse of the country but more of our soldiers are dying and we have yet to develop an exit strategy”. I see why Bush and co. chose the first name for it. It rolls off the tongue a little better.
“When once the morning star shall rise, when earth with shadow flees away, and we stand safe within the door, then you shall lift the veil thereof…”
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:34PM
maritalbliss at 9:48PM, May 12, 2007
(offline)
posts: 1,045
joined: 4-15-2007
Never gonna' happen, although I would love to be proven wrong.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:53PM
Cthulhu at 6:34PM, May 16, 2007
(online)
posts: 5,095
joined: 4-18-2006
ZeroVX
Cthulhu
I'm talking about other countries.

Hopefully there more that are dead, the less there are to screw up the middle-east even more.

I'm sorry, did you just say that it was good that people are dying?

OK, this may be rude, but you should consider therapy.

Innocent people dying, under any curcumstances, is not good.

Well, now I'm pissed. Thanks a lot. :mad:

You're welcome!

And I'm saying that it's a good thing that the middle-east guys are dieing. Technicaly America, and us are “allies”, so I'M cheering you on.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:55AM
Hawk at 8:11PM, May 17, 2007
(online)
posts: 2,760
joined: 1-2-2006
I think Cthulhu's trying to say he likes for the allies to be winning and the terrorists (bombers and insurgents) to be losing, and a natural consequence of the terrorists losing would be the terrorists dying. He's not necessarily saying he wants people over there to die. Am I getting your right, Cthulhu? Please correct me if I'm not. I'd hate to see arguments over misconstrued words.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
subcultured at 10:42PM, May 17, 2007
(online)
posts: 5,392
joined: 1-7-2006
yea…. all middle easterns are terrorists and should all die

good logic there.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM
Phantom Penguin at 4:03AM, May 18, 2007
(offline)
posts: 1,075
joined: 1-6-2006
Wow. I think I sense a little racism.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
ccs1989 at 8:23AM, May 18, 2007
(online)
posts: 2,656
joined: 1-2-2006
Cthulhu
I'm talking about other countries.

Hopefully there more that are dead, the less there are to screw up the middle-east even more.

Have you ever BEEN overseas? The majority of the British hate the war, France hates the war, Norway, Denmark, and Sweden all hate the war…the list on and on.

The Secretary General of the UN Kofi Annan said that in the view of the majority of the UN, “From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, the war was illegal.”

Other countries don't support us. Where the heck did you get that idea? The only reason we're still there is because of 38% of this country, and the President.

As for your other point; Oh yeah, we should just KILL EM ALL. That will solve ALL our problems. You know why that doesn't work? Because the more we kill the angrier that part of the world becomes, and the more the US seems like it's comitting genocide on a large portion of the globe. I mean we've already killed 60,000 Iraqi civilians as of April of this year.

In fact here's more information with listed sources:
Opinion polls showed the population was against the war, with opposition as high as 90% in Spain and Italy, and also widespread in Eastern Europe. The electorates of France and Germany were strongly opposed to the war and it would have been difficult for their governments to fail to reflect these views.
Source: http://www.cer.org.uk/pdf/back_brief_springford_dec03.pdf

Opinion polls showed that the population of nearly all countries opposed a war without UN mandate, and that the view of the United States as a danger to world peace had significantly increased.
Sources: http://english.people.com.cn/200306/18/eng20030618_118439.shtml
http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/185.pdf

The Vatican also came out against war in Iraq. Archbishop Renato Raffaele Martino, a former U.N. envoy and current prefect of the Council for Justice and Peace, told reporters that war against Iraq was a “preventative” war and constituted a “war of aggression”, and thus did not constitute a just war. The foreign minister, Archbishop Jean-Louis Tauran, expressed concerns that a war in Iraq would inflame anti-Christian feelings in the Islamic world. On February 8, 2003, Pope John Paul II said “we should never resign ourselves, almost as if war is inevitable.”
Later on March 22, 2003, Pope John Paul II was quoted as saying:
“When war, as in these days in Iraq, threatens the fate of humanity, it is ever more urgent to proclaim, with a strong and decisive voice, that only peace is the road to follow to construct a more just and united society. Violence and arms can never resolve the problems of man.” - Pope John Paul II, Address to television broadcaster Telepace
Sources: http://www.catholicherald.com/cns/iraq-us.htm
http://www.cjd.org/paper/jp2war.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80875,00.html

The executive committee of the World Council of Churches, an organization representing churches with a combined membership of between 350 million and 450 million Christians from over 100 countries, issued a statement in opposition to war with Iraq, stating that “War against Iraq would be immoral, unwise, and in breach of the principles of the United Nations Charter.”
Source: http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/what/international/exco03-iraq.html

And finally, a list of all the countries that have OFFICIALLY come out in comdemnation of the Iraq War.
The following countries have protested formally and officially to the conduct of this war. They do not support the Iraq War in principle, citing in some cases that they believe it is illegal, and in others that it required an affirmative United Nations mandate.

* Algeria
* Argentina
* Austria
* Bangladesh
* Belarus
* Belgium
* Brazil
* Canada
* Chile
* China
* Croatia
* Cuba
* Dominica
* Ecuador
* Egypt
* France
* Gambia
* Germany
* Greece
* Guinea
* India
* Iran
* Jordan
* Indonesia
* Kenya
* Libya
* Lebanon
* Liechtenstein
* Malaysia
* Mexico
* New Zealand
* North Korea
* Norway
* Oman
* Pakistan
* Qatar
* Russia
* Saudi Arabia
* Serbia
* Slovenia
* South Africa
* Sudan
* Sweden
* Switzerland
* Syria
* United Arab Emirates
* Vatican City
* Venezuela
* Vietnam
* Yemen
* Zimbabwe



Yeah, the world REALLY supports us.

http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
Triss at 1:20PM, May 18, 2007
(offline)
posts: 63
joined: 3-27-2007
Cthulhu
And I'm saying that it's a good thing that the middle-east guys are dieing. Technicaly America, and us are “allies”, so I'M cheering you on.

…so let me see if I understand. You're saying that everyone in the middle east deserves death? That's a staggering assertion, and rather narrow-minded. Perhaps you ought to more clearly expess your position.
“When once the morning star shall rise, when earth with shadow flees away, and we stand safe within the door, then you shall lift the veil thereof…”
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:34PM
ccs1989 at 1:25PM, May 18, 2007
(online)
posts: 2,656
joined: 1-2-2006
Remember this is someone who thought we had the world on our side. Bush doesn't even have the country on his side, let alone the world.
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
subcultured at 12:24AM, May 24, 2007
(online)
posts: 5,392
joined: 1-7-2006
bush stole the first election
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM
subcultured at 12:26AM, May 24, 2007
(online)
posts: 5,392
joined: 1-7-2006

brilliant!
i didn't know bush awarded the contract to haliburton which cheney was CEO of

and now we are gonna go against iran, hmmmm
wow we are just going to go to war with everyone
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM
Phantom Penguin at 2:44AM, May 24, 2007
(offline)
posts: 1,075
joined: 1-6-2006
Our military can't fight Iran right now. Fighting wars in Afgahnistan and Iraq, the combat troops are spread thin and overworked.
Not to mention no would ever allow Bush to go to war again while hes in office for any reason.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
subcultured at 8:05AM, May 24, 2007
(online)
posts: 5,392
joined: 1-7-2006
i think al gore woesn't wanna be president because there's too much shit to clean up.

i mean come on, bush has messed up the counry pretty bad as well as we are in thin ice with other countries.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved