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Can zombies infect the other monsters?
Mr Kaos at 9:49AM, May 6, 2010
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I always wondered what if zombies did run(walk) in vampires, werewolves, frankenstein's monster or other monsters, would they be infected if zombies bite them?
I mean.. the virus would only affect the living being. so… vampires can't be infected since they kinda are already dead. but if they got infected anyway.. would they be a zompire or vambie? heh.

Werewolf is a living being so far we know so it is possible that they can be infected.. or can they?

Frankenstein's monster. well i don't think he can be infected in same way as a living being.

Godzilla is perhaps too big to be infected but hey.. it could be cool to see a zombie godzilla who eats people and other giant monsters.

perhaps this is a silly idea but i am curious to see what you think of this.. and sorry about my english and grammar.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
ozoneocean at 9:59AM, May 6, 2010
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Doubtful a virus would have the same effects if it could jump across species. Maybe it would kill the infected monster quickly or maybe give it a cold or a case of flesh-rot?

Anyway, I really don't think that virus zombies inhabit the same universe as monsters. Monsters are usually supernatural and or magic, so they go along with classical supernatural/magic zombies, so no infection, sorry. But can you magically zombify another monster…? Probably not- they have to be dead to be that sort of zombie, and when you “kill” most monsters the death is way too ultimate and final to have anything left to zombify :(
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:36PM
Gaddick at 6:08AM, May 8, 2010
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hmmm… A vampiric Zombified werewolf… That makes me think of D&D… When I rolled alot of lucky 20s on my stats on something I called An Argonian Were-Rhino… Needless to say, the prospect is frightening but most of the time seeing as how zombification (the act of making something into a zombie) isn't used to much on other creatures seeing as how they're already friggin dangerous as hell. Still, scary thought.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:32PM
Aurora Moon at 5:30PM, May 9, 2010
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depends on which universe you have it in. for instance… you had zombifed dogs and other animals in resident evil alongside the human zombies… indicating that the zombies went for anything living, regardless of what species they were.

So the virus was so powerful that it could adjust itself to infect ANYTHING living.

so in that universe, if a werewolf did exist, it could actually become infected.

and here's the scary part… if the werewolf thing was another virus that you got from being bitten by a wolf or whatever… then that virus could like merge with the Zombie virus to become one deadly virus where every zombie could also take on canine-like traits… making them faster, deadlier, etc.

I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Lonnehart at 1:35AM, May 10, 2010
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Zombie Viruses can be scary things. If written right and they were believable, it's possible they could infect living, nonliving, and even objects that were never even alive. While not exactly a zombie virus, the virus in the old Playstation shooter game called Philosoma was able to infect an entire planet! No… I mean not just every living thing on the planet, but the very planet itself and all the machines that were on it. Worse part… Humanity was its vector. Mankind's tendency to colonize enabled it to infect other worlds.

Okay… I don't think I'll be able to sleep now…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:39PM
Ironscarf at 4:34AM, May 10, 2010
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I always thought it was a shame King Kong died off at the end of the movie, so maybe Zombie Kong would be a sensible way to bring him back?

I Googled Zombie Kong and sure enough, somebody already thought of it.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:02PM
Mr Kaos at 9:28AM, May 10, 2010
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Zombie virus always kills it's host. i like your theories.

A zombie planet? now that is a scary thought… a planet moving around to eat other planets… or infecting them and spreading the infection everywhere in the universe.. and besides it perhaps. *shudders*

Zombie king kong looks awesome for sure. Perhaps he is too big to infect humans. he can only infect larger being like elphants and whales.
Please someome do a comic about this. xD

Zombie ghost can't exist for sure. they already are dead and can't be touched at all.. or can they?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
ozoneocean at 9:40AM, May 10, 2010
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Oh gawd… -_-

How about a zombie-zombie? :)
Zombies who infect OTHER zombies and turn them into zombie-zombies! They get twice the zombie powers and become SUPER zombies.

Or maybe if traditional magic/cursed zombies got into a fight with modern movie style infected zombies then the infection could spread into the magical/cursed zombies and do strange things, and maybe a necromancer could cast a spell over a whole population of infected zombies and transform them, adding new powers…
…Nah, that's just silly. :(
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:36PM
Product Placement at 10:10AM, May 10, 2010
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ozoneocean
SUPER zombies.
The moment I read that, I pictured this:

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elektro at 9:08PM, May 14, 2010
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There is a type of vampire in the game “Soul Reaver” that is basically a blood sucking zombie because they decompose but are still immortal. Sucky existence, that one is.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:21PM
SansTalent at 11:55AM, May 15, 2010
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It mostly depends on the type of zombie you have. With “voodoo magic” zombism, of course you can! It just takes a talented, powerful and/or determined necromancer trying to find a way.
With “virus” zombism, I'd say it's about the same. Scientists research until a way is found. And mostly, if it is organic, it can be infected to an extent, so werewolves are fair game, and vampires are probably too.

I'd like to say that “Frankenstein's Monster” is just a human that was: A) Bigger than a normal human, and B ) Artificially made. No monster and no nothing, of course he can be zombified!

Vampires tend to vary in the source of vampirism, because being misterious is an important part of the vampire gimmick.
The original Dracula book does not give any sort of account as to where the count's immortality came from.
In Underworld (movies at least), it is implied that the original vampire and the original werewolf were natural immortals, who just happened to be bit by the respective animals and took their traits. The two original guys' dad also appears, he's the really original immortal, and he looks like a regular human to me. They seem vulnerable to magic zombism, and may or may not be infectable by viruses, depending on the virus' strenght.
My favorite version is Anne Rice's. Interview with the Vampire and ahead. In there, vampirism is produced by one single ghost who possesses the blood of every vampire in the world, giving them their standard vampire traits, but a bit more developed upon. For example, sun destroys them because it is harmful to spirits, and without the spirit, the body can no longer hold together; but really strong vampires manage to withstand the sunlight just fine. I don't think those would be infectable by either way, as the spirit would actively fight both kinds of zombism.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:22PM
ozoneocean at 3:10AM, May 16, 2010
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SansTalent
With “virus” zombism, I'd say it's about the same. Scientists research until a way is found. And mostly, if it is organic, it can be infected to an extent, so werewolves are fair game, and vampires are probably too.
I don't get this…

Because the thing about being a vampire is that you haven't got a soul and you simply can not die… Almost. And if you do doe you're basically atomised- turned to dust. They're completely immune to viruses. -(except for crappy vamps in some modern fiction)
The thing about zombies is that it's just an animated corpse. So if you were to try and zombifie a vamp it simply couldn't work.

Werewolves are almost impossible to kill, there are only a few specific methods, so viruses will never affect them. And when they're dead, then they're finally cured of being a werewolf- so if you animated the corpse, it'd just be a normal zombie.

It's all down to the marvellous logic of mathematical monsterisim! :) :) :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:36PM
Mr Kaos at 1:59PM, May 16, 2010
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Oh.. about werewolves. only the host can be infected not the werewolf itself.
once it changes. the virus isn't in charge when this is in werewolf form. when turning back to human. it is a zombie or close to it. I did read Marvel zombies where Jack Russel got infected. he wasn't a zombie when he turned into his werewolf form.. pretty complicated.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
Product Placement at 5:13PM, May 16, 2010
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If anyone's read the online comic Last Blood, it is explained that zombies are…
…vampires who have been unable to drink blood for several years and thus degenerate into walking husks. Anyone he bites from that point onward becomes a zombie as well. The original zombie retains his mind and can control his minions.
elektro
“Soul Reaver”
I loved those games.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:52PM
ozoneocean at 8:26PM, May 16, 2010
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Mr Kaos
Oh.. about werewolves. only the host can be infected not the werewolf itself.
once it changes. the virus isn't in charge when this is in werewolf form. when turning back to human. it is a zombie or close to it. I did read Marvel zombies where Jack Russel got infected. he wasn't a zombie when he turned into his werewolf form.. pretty complicated.
Ha! In almost all werewolf myth, being a werewolf makes you completely immune to “viruses”, so it would be an extremely limited set of werewolf fiction that type of zombie stuff would work with and it'd be a very pathetic werewolf anyway if it could be affected by a virus… hardly worthy of the name.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:36PM
SansTalent at 7:14AM, May 17, 2010
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Ha! In almost all werewolf myth, being a werewolf makes you completely immune to “viruses”, so it would be an extremely limited set of werewolf fiction that type of zombie stuff would work with and it'd be a very pathetic werewolf anyway if it could be affected by a virus… hardly worthy of the name.
Not really. In almost all werewolf miths, there are no such things as viruses, because they are way older than microscopes and biology knowledge.
Conversely, in almost any setting where zombism is caused by a virus, there are no werewolves, and the aforementioned virus zombie is almost always the only supernatural thing.

If you want to have viral zombies and werewolves interact, you've pretty much got to make it up for that explicit purpose. And even if werewolvism did give you a magical super immune system (which I'll admit is fairly common), it'd only take a couple scientists capturing a number of werewolves and experimenting on them until they cook up a strain that can infect'em.

As for magical zombies, is pretty much the same: a group of necromancers capture some werewolves and do some tests on them until they've made'em zombies. And I'd like to point your attention to the fact that zombie does not mean “animated corpse”. It is more like “mind control”. They started used corpses for zombies in movies because A) It's creepier, and B ) They're just lying there anyways.

As for vampires not having soul, that's just bull****. You don't have a soul and you're just fine. I think that bit came from “mirrors steal your soul”+“vampires don't show in mirrors”. But that's just a lame consecuence, as it makes no diference whatsoever.
In any case, the vampire's body is there, it can sure be targeted by magic zombism, and a vampire-infected strain of viral one would probably be developed. Wheter that has any effect on the vampire or not, that depends on the source.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:22PM
ozoneocean at 7:37AM, May 17, 2010
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No, all real vampire myth I've read is pretty specific about the soul thing, a lot of contemporary fiction too. And while the soul idea is folklore, equally so are vamps and it's rock solid real in the fantasy mythological fiction universes where they come from ;)
-The mirror idea is reversed (great pun!): they didn't have souls, so THEN they don't show up in mirrors. Not the other way around. i.e. the no soul thing came first.

lol!

I think in the end you can pretty much fanboy anything together, but if you take your fiction or your monster science/mythology with any sort of seriousness, force hybridising them like that basically ruins them. -You end up with freaky silly zombos, and very cheap kacky vamps, werewolves etc.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:36PM
SansTalent at 2:28PM, May 17, 2010
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Yeah, of course if you mix and match critters, you'll end up with something in extreme bizarre. But that doesn't disminish the point that they are ficticious things, we can do about anything. Otherwise, the answer to the original question would've been “No, they are not real”. But that's just boring.

Now I'm curious as to what you'd consider the “fantasy mithological fiction universes where they (vampires) came from”.
If you are refering to medieval accounts of what we now would call vampires, they didn't have much folklore about them besides “it'll come kill you”; and they almost never used the word “vampire”, that is tacked over posteriorly by us, because it does resemble some vampire associated traits. But that was mostly fortituous, they may just as easily have been succubi or some non-descript monster, if no one had thougth “hey, this sounds like a vampire story”.

The one I'm taking as “canon” background here is Dracula, seeing as most vampire writters try to either follow that book or stray away from it as much as they can; both recognize it as the de facto “rule”. Those vampires most definitely had a soul, they showed relief when they were finally “released”, as if they were going to get “rest”. They didn't show in mirrors, of course, but that was mostly to give them more dramatism and make them more dangerous.
The “vampires have no soul” thing would make very lame vampire stories, actually. It sounds more like a videogame/slasher movie convention, in order to make them acceptable targets.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:22PM
Sariling Mundo at 12:48AM, May 18, 2010
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I'm reminded of that Ghostbusters cartoon where the vampires and the werewolves fight, but they just kept turning each other.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:24PM
Product Placement at 7:45AM, May 18, 2010
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Sariling Mundo
I'm reminded of that Ghostbusters cartoon where the vampires and the werewolves fight, but they just kept turning each other.
How so? Did a vampire that was bitten by a werewolf, stop being a vampire, turning into a werewolf and vice versa?
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Sariling Mundo at 7:59AM, May 18, 2010
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I'm reminded of that Ghostbusters cartoon where the vampires and the werewolves fight, but they just kept turning each other.
How so? Did a vampire that was bitten by a werewolf, stop being a vampire, turning into a werewolf and vice versa?

Exactly. And they changed on the spot.
My comics and their REAL ratings:

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Painkiller - M

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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:24PM
Product Placement at 8:35AM, May 18, 2010
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Damn…

That sounds like a confusing fight.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:52PM
SansTalent at 2:59PM, May 18, 2010
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Sounds pretty fun actually. Kind of like one of these games where each player has a color and you have rules for turning your oponents pieces/squares/whatever.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:22PM
ozoneocean at 3:53AM, May 20, 2010
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Now I'm curious as to what you'd consider the “fantasy mithological fiction universes where they (vampires) came from”.
If you are refering to medieval accounts of what we now would call vampires, they didn't have much folklore about them besides “it'll come kill you”; and they almost never used the word “vampire”, that is tacked over posteriorly by us, because it does resemble some vampire associated traits. But that was mostly fortituous, they may just as easily have been succubi or some non-descript monster, if no one had thougth “hey, this sounds like a vampire story”.

The one I'm taking as “canon” background here is Dracula, seeing as most vampire writters try to either follow that book or stray away from it as much as they can; both recognize it as the de facto “rule”. Those vampires most definitely had a soul, they showed relief when they were finally “released”, as if they were going to get “rest”. They didn't show in mirrors, of course, but that was mostly to give them more dramatism and make them more dangerous.
The “vampires have no soul” thing would make very lame vampire stories, actually. It sounds more like a videogame/slasher movie convention, in order to make them acceptable targets.
Wellll “Varney the Vampire” was THE biggest vampire series ever in the 1800's. There were a lot of popular vampire and werewolf stories then. Dracula is just a more modern literary version of the bodice-ripper penny dreadful of the 19th century, there's nothing original there, Stoker just distilled over 100 years of popular fiction into his own thing. If you like it was the Twilight of its day.-following the immense popularity of the Varney stories, the next biggest horror series to take over was Wagner the Werewolf. lol!

You're wrong about Vamps not being well defined prior to Dracula, there was a lot of writing about them and it a lot of places they still had a real belief in them. The soul thing was extremely important in the older folklore.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:36PM
JustNoPoint at 7:27AM, May 20, 2010
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Heh, sadly this is a really interesting read for me. Pity me XD

Me and a friend was working on a comic that had a Military guy that gets infected with lycanthropy. Before it totally manifests he is then fused with a super mummy that is awakened.

So he can become a awesome mummy werewolf that conceals all his guns and grenades inside his bandages/body XD

Hmmmm zombie mummies?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
SansTalent at 4:51PM, May 20, 2010
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Varney the Vampire
Sorry, never heard of it. Dracula was published in 1897, though, so it still counts as “the 1800s”. And I still dare say Dracula is more important, if not as an original, as a defining one. I did know that he had lots of sources, but who doesn't? It hardly warrants saying “nothing original there”. The main source for Count Dracula was not literary, though, but historical, in the figure of Vlad Drakul/Tepes (Drakul means “the devil” and Tepes “the impaler”; I'm not sure if Tepes was his father or just his real name/older title).
As for Twilight, I had ignored that on purpose. Emo vampires just don't cut it in my book, and I like to think it will be forgotten when the last movie is over, just like how the lead actor thinks. Acording to some local newspaper at least.

But enough of background, you can prove anything with facts. Let's think a little about the consecuences of not having a soul, shall we?

What is the soul?
For starters, “soul” is the religious excuse to deny the category of “human” to certain groups, in order to exploit them and kill them and stuff. Just the christians have done it to women, black people, asian people, native americans & homosexual people, at least. I'm almost wishing vampires were real so I could rat you out to some pro-vampire-rights group.
This option obviously doesn't service you, unless you want to make your story a political/philosophical allegory, like in I am Legend. The book, not the movie.

Discarded this one, we have to assume that souls are somehow “real” things. But what do they do? If the only use of having a soul is not being an immortal, I'm throwing mine to the trash right now.

The first obvious answer is that they somehow house emotions and/or free will. Not sure how believable (man that word is awkward) do you expect this one to be in this time and age, but you can always say that the brain houses the soul, I suppose.
This will have the effect of making your soulless vampires emotionless and/or mindlessly subservient. They either are aimless killing animaloids or puppets on the hands of some dark party, who must have a soul, in this setting. Basically zombies on either count.
As a rule of thumb, if you can replace the vampires in your story with any other threatening enough creature without the story losing anything, you don't have a vampire story. You just have a story with vampires, in the same sense as The Lord of the Rings is a story with horses.

Discarding that so that vampires can be sentient creatures, preferably centuries-old manipulative genuises, we are back on asking what does the soul do for non-vampires.
The main use to it is as a metaphisical backup of the mind, in order to achieve immortality after death; or as the thing being reincarnated, for whatever purpose reincarnating souls may have.
If the soul is the big key to an eternity in a beautiful place where the brave warriors of all ages reunite and party forever, then the vampires are not invited. Poor them. They'll have to content themselves with being in the earth eternally, amassing fortunes with which to fullfill their every earthly desires. Poor them.
Really, though, this solution does not have any bearing on the story unless resurrection is commonplace enough to have a bearing in the story itself; then, of course, dead vampires can't be resurrected.
This begs the question, however, of what happens to one's soul when one is vampirized. It either leaves at that point, is trapped somehow, or is destroyed.
  • If it leaves towards whichever afterlife it deserves at the moment of the bite, then the guy is already dead and the vampire is just a zombie (in the animated-corpse sense), but augmented with vampire powers.
    Furthermore, it would be possibly to resurrect the original guy, he just wouldn't have any memories of his time as a vampire. Even more so, if your resurrection technology allows to reconstruct the body, the victim can be resurrected while the vampire is still roaming. And vampirized again. You may even build an army of vampire Johns! This assumes resurrection is easier (cheaper?) than cloning. Or just graverobbing. In any case, go back to the vampire=zombie point.
  • If the soul is trapped somehow, and that is part of the being a vampire, we face a new set of problems. If it is something someone else does, we have the evil necromancer saying “Oh, I'm so evil I'll give my enemy vampire powers!”. The only way for this to be a sensible option is if the necromancer can control the vampire so created, which loops back to the “just a story with vampires” bit.
    It could also be possible that the vampires themselves took the souls of their victims, but then they would have a soul. Or several. It might not count, of course, but it makes no diference unless you set a quest to release the souls or something.
    Another option is that they willingly give their soul to some entity (most likely Lucifer) in exchange for vampiric powers. In this case, the soullessness is not exactly a necessity of being a vampire; it is just the only price appropiate. I'm willing to bet this is the version you are referring to, both because it is the least senseless of the lot, and because it fits with what medieval people would be led to believe. Please note two things, though; that there are better things to ask the devil in exchange for your soul, and that these vampires shouldn't be contagious. Not that I think they have to be, it just wouldn't made sense unless contagion is part of the granted powers, and then, only the original vampire must be soulless; unless you want a very dark tale where vampires can steal people's souls. All in all, this is the least bad option, storywise.
  • The soul is destroyed by vampirism: this is personally my favorite take on the matter, when I allow souls to exist in my stories. It is similar to “vampires steal your soul” above, though either softer or darker, depending on what exactly your deal-dispensing entity would do with the collected souls.
    Please note, though, that this shows irrevocable proof that souls are destructible, and therefore they fail to provide a metaphisical safety net for people scared of death. Not that that's a bad thing, but it does kind of loop back to the “what do you want souls for?” thing.

All in all, soulless vampires don't really make good stories if you want to have pure, undestructible, untouchable souls. Soulful vampires fill all those gaps much better, if you mention souls at all; and if you DO take them away, you'll go very dark in your story before it starts being good again. You are basically throwing them out of mistery, drama, police drama, action, romance, and basically any genre but terror.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:22PM
ozoneocean at 6:05PM, May 20, 2010
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SansTalent
Sorry, never heard of it. Dracula was published in 1897, though, so it still counts as “the 1800s”. And I still dare say Dracula is more important, if not as an original, as a defining one. I did know that he had lots of sources, but who doesn't? It hardly warrants saying “nothing original there”.
What? Ignorance is no argument. lol!
Before Varney there was Vampyre… Extremely influential books in the genre. Dracula was just the latest popular vamp book from that era that we still remember now.
SansTalent
All in all, soulless vampires don't really make good stories if you want to have pure, undestructible, untouchable souls. Soulful vampires fill all those gaps much better, if you mention souls at all; and if you DO take them away, you'll go very dark in your story before it starts being good again. You are basically throwing them out of mistery, drama, police drama, action, romance, and basically any genre but terror.
Well they did make the good stories in the past. ;)
I'm not saying that's the only way to make a vamp story, I'm saying that's part of what defined them though. You have to remember that these things came straight from eastern Europe, where for millennia there was the struggle between Christianity and the older religions that meant vicious war on the ground as well as a culture war. You're basically throwing all that out in favour of a small sample of 20th Century pop culture.

But I did enjoy your cogitations on the soul concept. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:36PM
Mr Kaos at 3:47AM, May 22, 2010
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Hmm. interessing read. I never thought that a question about zombie being able to infect other monsters would lead to a soul and vampire debate. now the poor zombies feel ignored. hehe.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
seventy2 at 4:36PM, May 22, 2010
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magical zombies have no soul. infected do.


(see right back into zombies)
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:30PM
SansTalent at 9:30PM, May 22, 2010
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Sorry, but I would like to posit that ignorance is THE argument.
We're not talking about a really existing thing here, it's basically art we're discussing. Perception is everything.
So basically what I'm saying is that, despite my adherence to the original text of Frankenstein, it is doubtless that most depictions of the creature will not give him stimulating philosophical speeches.

And I'm not throwing it away on favour of “small sample” of pop culture. It is in fact a huge sample, both statistically and influentially.
Personally, though, I prefer Anne Rice's vampires. Or my own, but I don't think I'm publishing that story anytime soon.

And yeah, discussing the soul is a very interesting thing. On the metaphisical ground there is not much to say, but it does touch into politics, the nature of thought, identity, and maybe on the specific type of magic you'll use.
He who flames trolls should see to it that he himself does not become a troll. For when you gaze long into the internets, the internets gaze also into you.

Look, a comic! Sorta!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:22PM

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