Debate and Discussion

Chief Illiniwek Controversy
Atom Apple at 7:42PM, March 13, 2007
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I live in Illinois and this has to be the biggest load of crap I've ever seen.

http://www.retirethechief.org/welcome.html

According to these people Chief Illiniwek is offensive and an “extraordinarily powerful stereotypes - well entrenched images of the Indian of over 100 years ago which ‘freezes Native peoples in the past.’” I propose we ban the Yankees. How dare they portray Americans in that way. Civil War reenacters can burn in Hell.

If you want to ban an offensive mascot, and I'm not naming anyone in particular, but yes I am, Redskins. They are much more offensive, and they're barely offensive at all.

Well, I'm off to ban every single Rocky movie because I'm Italian, therefore I can.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
reconjsh at 8:35PM, March 13, 2007
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Well, I don't see how “Yankees” is a derogatory term (though I could be wrong on this).

And as far as native americans being upset and offended by mascots, I'm not sure how I feel about that.

On one hand, if they feel it's offensive and isn't an accurate representation of their culture… then perhaps it is?

On the other hand, it's not like they're the “drunken indians” or the “stupid cheifs”. They seem to always be represented by brave and noble extremes. Sort of an idealization of what people think native americans were back then. I'm sure this isn't always the case though.

So I don't know. What do you guys think? My opinion is open to sway… ;)
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
Aurora Moon at 11:30PM, March 13, 2007
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back then, Yankees were seen as degortgory somewhat when people were moving to the south when the southern states were just starting to become formed. if you were from the northeast, there was a strong chance that you could be an “Yankee”.

The term Yankee currently refers to people from or in New England; by extension it is applied to any resident of the Northeast (New England, Mid-Atlantic, and upper Great Lakes states), to any Northerner during and after the American Civil War, or to other citizens of the United States. In certain Commonwealth countries - notably UK, Australia and New Zealand - “Yank” refers to any American and is sometimes mistakenly applied to Canadians. Internationally, “Yank” is today roughly analogous to “Brit” (someone from the UK), “Aussie” (someone from Australia) or “Kiwi” (someone from New Zealand).

to those people back then when the states were just becoming formed, Yankees were seen as people who were stupid, brash, rude and close-minded folk who acted like they were better than others. There wasnt much tolerance for yankees…. they'd have comments like: “Why don't you go back where you belong, YANKEE??”
those comments would usually from people in tiny farming communities who didn't want too much progress, too much change. etc.

ironically, Yankees largely lived in villages (rather than separate farms), which fostered the local democracy of town meetings; and emphasized puritanical morality and civic virtue. From New England seaports they built an international trade, stretching to China by 1800. Much of the merchant profits were reinvested in the textile and machine tools industries which made New England the center of the nation's industrial revolution in the 19th century.

They created high schools and colleges for their children, building human capital that was highly valued in growing cities. Yankee cultural traits included an emphasis on education and an appreciation of complex social structures that emphasized brainpower over manual skills, and favored intricate corporate structures. After 1800 the Yankees spearheaded most reform movements, including abolition, temperance, women's rights and women's education. Emma Willard and Mary Lyons pioneered in the higher education of women, while Yankees comprised most of the reformers who went South during Reconstruction in the 1860s to educate the Freedmen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee more here.

so at one time it started out somewhat degeortory, but now can be seen as something postive.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
CorruptComics at 11:38PM, March 13, 2007
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Someone
to those people back then when the states were just becoming formed, Yankees were seen as people who were stupid, brash, rude and close-minded folk who acted like they were better than others. There wasnt much tolerance for yankees…. they'd have comments like: “Why don't you go back where you belong, YANKEE??”
those comments would usually from people in tiny farming communities who didn't want too much progress, too much change. etc.

I love the irony of that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:46AM
Atom Apple at 6:03AM, March 14, 2007
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Well, the Yankee thing was sarcasm. Chief Illiniwek is only a guess at what an Native American ceremony would be like. When I was in Boy Scouts (which I quit out of hatred for it.) they did Native American ceremonies that were incredibly inaccurate and related their dances to Boy Scouts, and I personally would find that way more offensive.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
ozoneocean at 6:46AM, March 14, 2007
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What these politically active groups seem to be unaware of is that icons like these mascots (or whatever they are), as well as your US Boy Scout practises actually spread and maintain awareness of Native Americans to people who might never otherwise come across anything to do with them. In a way it's quite a good thing for them. Without such things they could much more easily be dismissed and forgotten, wiped away from history because people have no reminders…

Characters from history and myth like Santa Claus and Farther Christmas, Jesus, Robin Hood, King Arthur, William Tell, Saint George etc. have been distorted and cartoonised way past what they originally were, but nevertheless we wouldn't have any trace of them if they weren't. Father Christmas ties us to ancient almost forgotten medieval festivals, Jesus connects us to a 2000 year old vanished Jewish culture suffering under Roman occupation, with Robin Hood we're brought into contact with Britain when it had an absent crusader King and struggling peasants who were being taxed to pay for those crusades, and yet he's mostly a fiction.

So I say it's good to keep these things.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
Atom Apple at 2:08PM, March 14, 2007
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Exactly, that idea even has a website.

http://www.honorthechief.com/
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM

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