Debate and Discussion

College
TheMidge28 at 6:53AM, Sept. 15, 2007
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lothar
Hawk
I'd like that burger with extra pickles and no mayo, please.

like i said; success is all relative. if your goal in life is to drive to the office everyday, have a mortgage, and look down your nose at the guy making your food or mowing your lawn , then maybe college is for you !

College isn't for everyone.
What pisses me off is the forced social ideology that everyone after highschool should go to college. It's crap. Especially those in the art field.

I had originally went to college for a graphic design degree, which was too regimented for me. I then switched to studio art where I excelled but was asked by professors and other students, “Why are you here? You don't need a degree to do art.” I then had a run in with a professor who was going to be my annual portfolio reviewer, which I couldn't change. From that point on, he had it in for me. At the time I was going for a minor in philosophy as well and decided it was best to switch that to my major. I then had to spend more money and take other classes which I hadn't taken just to fulfill the requirements of the BS for philosophy. I was there for almost 8 years.

Now can anybody guess if I am using that degree in my current career? That's a rhetorical question of course.

As marine said most people who graduate college never use their degree or get a job in that degrees field. The Catch-22 is that to get a better paying job one needs a college degree.

Now I am not saying college is a bad thing. It is a great experience for a lot of people. And a huge investment for your future. But people need to stop and consider what they want to pursue and if they want to invest the time and money to pursue that goal before going. Don't feel pressured! There are tons of alternatives which are just as profitable and rewarding. And as lothar said its all relative and each person measures success differently. Some are very happy working at McDonald's with Corky and making minimum wage…because you know Corky rocks!
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:21PM
Priest_Revan at 11:12AM, Sept. 15, 2007
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The one thing I loath about college libraries. All the girls whispering away to each other in the reading areas. I'd rather they just talk out loud; I can tune that out easily. The whispering drives me nuts and I can't concentrate at all.

So I either just take the book out and go to my room (I can easily tune out blaring music), or descend into the dungeon (basement floor of the separate science library) where 90% of the time it's deathly quiet (and smells like death).

I have to agree with you about the library thing. There's always those types of people who are ruining the library atmosphere.

The thing worse than a bunch of girls/guys whispering in there is the fact that college parents love to bring like 10 kids to the library with them. God, I can't possibly study in that environment.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:48PM
Hawk at 4:45PM, Sept. 15, 2007
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TheMidge28
College isn't for everyone.
What pisses me off is the forced social ideology that everyone after highschool should go to college. It's crap. Especially those in the art field.

There was a time when I thought I could make it as an artist without going to college. Because you can learn to become a better artist outside of classroom walls, right?

Well, even if you can get better at art on your own or looking in books, you get better twice as fast with an actual teacher in a classroom environment with a curriculum. Not only that, but the college environment is the perfect place to do all the networking you need to get a good job. I would never have a chance to work where I do now if it wasn't for the people I worked with in college. My own fellow students got me my job.

You and Lothar are right and you don't necessarily have to go to college. You just need to make sure you're happy with the income bracket you end up in because you didn't. And if you're fine with that, I certainly won't hold it against you.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
TheMidge28 at 5:48PM, Sept. 15, 2007
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Hawk
You and Lothar are right and you don't necessarily have to go to college. You just need to make sure you're happy with the income bracket you end up in because you didn't. And if you're fine with that, I certainly won't hold it against you.



I was being facetious. Honestly now a days you need to get extra training or go on to college to get a better paying job. but some people aren't motivated in that way.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:21PM
kyupol at 8:41PM, Sept. 16, 2007
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What pisses me off is the forced social ideology that everyone after highschool should go to college.

lol college/university IS overrated.

Anyway, salarywise, here is what I've noticed based on research…

Minimum - $10 = Unskilled… never finished highschool. More than 70% of these jobs are TEMPED nowadays.

$10-$15 = finished highschool or maybe a couple of years of post-secondary ed. Be it college, univ, or or vocational school…

$14-$20 = if you've got some experience and you at least finished highschool. Or fine… if you wanna make $20 per hour, be a construction worker or if a union will take you. I tried applying to the Sheet Metal worker union… and the guy showed me a stack of papers full of applicants. Of course… everybody wanna be in a union so they make good money and benefits.


In reality… to make good money you gotta be one or more of the following:

a) Good politics - Charisma, “people skills”, etc… Have a wide network of connections… and you're set.
b) Start your business… Business Management is a skill… and you have to be a risk taker.
c) Be willing to do dangerous jobs.



NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
imshard at 8:55AM, Sept. 17, 2007
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College is undervalued by its students and overvalued by employers. Many countries send their students to our colleges nonetheless however. why? Because despite the associated irreverence American colleges and universities are still great repositories of knowledge as well as outstanding places to learn. That and unlike many other places in the world all you need to get in is money. As with everything though you need to apply yourself, and work hard. American students both rich and poor are simply to lax from the soft lives they have lived. Even at the votech and community colleges I attended there were students from around the world. They tended to be at the top of the class too, despite being truly underprivileged, poor, and suffering from exclusion and language barriers. If a student works hard and values the education being given to them they stand to gain a lot.

Anyhow, thats just my world view and personal experience talking.
I do have some advice though. High school students; you should take a course at a vocational school. I took computer repair and the skills I learned helped me support myself when I joined the workforce. Most states allow high school students to take a votech or trade class concurrently to their normal work and free of charge as well. Don't be daunted by how the high school society will react to you. It'll be worth it when you can pay your way after school while the rest of them scramble for a job at MickyD's or go to leach off their parents. hehe. Once high school is through just take it easy for a year. If you or your parents freak out over the waste of time, take a couple of gen ed courses at a local school. They can transfer the credits toward a real degree at a big school later. And travel! Take advantage of time off. Seeing the world will help shape you and make ya a more productive and happy citizen. You'll have something more to show for it than a bad hangover and an STD.

And personally I would support a screening of the idiots from schools. Something that is easily forgotten is that EVERYBODY has to pay to go to school. Its not like a scholarship is a magic ticket that says you get a free pass because you're smart. It just means somebody paid for you, because they think you deserve a chance at what used to be a very selective privilege. Thats is something else people seem to forget. College is a privilege. The people who go take it for granted, those who don't look on with scorn. It is supposed to be a place where one with special talents can shape themselves into a professional who can offer a special trade like a doctor or engineer. Meh, sorry more of my philosophy.

Standardized tests do a good job of removing the idiots. But it shouldn't be the deciding factor. Even those who fail miserably at the ACT or SAT should get a chance. I once got test anxiety so bad that i couldn't finish the test. Interviews and teacher's evaluations should serve a larger part of the admissions process.

And finally I'll shut up with this closing statement. College should be a considered a privilege not as a right. People tend to ignore and abuse their rights. And everybody has a talent that could be nurtured in the right hands. College however is not always the right place to do it.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:57PM
kyupol at 2:12PM, Sept. 19, 2007
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In fairness to College… since I've said some negative stuff about college and university in these thread.

At least I can say that I've met some interesting people in college. Including this girl who… (nvm Mlai dont wanna see this again and again and again… lol :) ) So yeah I'd talk about this few interesting characters:

The fat loner - He's actually got brains aside from that fat. And an interesting person to talk to. We actually shared the same interests and views about most things. From what I've heard, he's now a big martial arts fanatic. :) lol Martial arts IS GUARANTEED to make you lose weight. Unless you're at a mcdojo or something.


“You think that's funny?!?” - There's this dude who always says that phrase. He likes to make up wild stories… like the one he told me that he was a former US marine who served in Iraq (and he apparently killed at least 20 Iraqi soldiers using TWO mac-10s). He said he was kicked out of the army because he got into a fight and he FLYING KICKED a big muscular marine in the jaw and it knocked him out. lol he's about 5'4 130 lbs… and he claims to have flying kicked and KO'd a big marine!!! LOL!!!

Other stuff he liked to say were “What will you do if x happen?” and “Will you laugh?” and “Are they gonna laugh?” and “Will they laugh at me?” I swear I could make a switchboard of this guy if I taperecorded him. One time I gave him a shocked look on his face when he asked me : “What will you do if you're in a helicopter and you get shot by an RPG?”

I replied: “I will laugh.”


The wannabe rocker - He composed a song about a kid who got raped when he was 10. There's a scream part that says “I GOT RAPED WHEN I WAS 10!!! BWAAWWWW!!!” He dropped out and made up a ‘band’ with a few friends then quit it after about a year… and now works at min wage… and maybe lives like a wanderer transferring to different relatives since he always had negative things to say about his parents. He was arrested for public drunkenness. Havent heard from him lately… :(

Now you see why you shouldnt be fucking up your brain on drugs and alcohol… as only a few of these rockstars actually ‘make it’.


IN SUMMARY:
At least I got me a few people to chat with on MSN sometimes to pass the boredom… and you never know what might happen to these guys in the future.

At least I can also say college was the reason my artistic abilities improved. I had ONE good teacher who showed me a ‘cheat’ for drawing cities. He claims to have worked for Marvel, Pixar, and Image comics on different occasions.

Now I have an outlet. Also I got a future chapter in MAG-ISA influenced by my college experience.

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Short_Circuiting at 4:54PM, Oct. 11, 2007
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If they made getting into college any tougher than it already is, I would so just give up, become an alcoholic, and start looking for a job at SEARS. D:
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:34PM
hat at 8:35PM, Oct. 11, 2007
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One of those Monavie sales people talked to me a few days ago, they're some sales people who have this new drink that “helps you live longer”. I passed it off as nothing at first, but then it got me thinking. The guy claimed in a few days he'd be making money out the yin-yang which made me wonder if my college education is worth it. I knew there was a catch and all but why not become an entrepreneur or distributor? I mean, there are a lot of things you can do or make a career out of that don't require a college education.

Anyway, if I was going to be rich (making atleast 200k a year), I wouldn't even bother going to college. That's the only reason I'm in it anyway; hoping it'll get me a high-paying job… Because honestly, I could “do what I love” for free.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
bobhhh at 10:46PM, Oct. 11, 2007
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kyupol
What pisses me off is the forced social ideology that everyone after highschool should go to college.

lol college/university IS overrated.

Anyway, salarywise, here is what I've noticed based on research…

Minimum - $10 = Unskilled… never finished highschool. More than 70% of these jobs are TEMPED nowadays.

$10-$15 = finished highschool or maybe a couple of years of post-secondary ed. Be it college, univ, or or vocational school…

$14-$20 = if you've got some experience and you at least finished highschool. Or fine… if you wanna make $20 per hour, be a construction worker or if a union will take you. I tried applying to the Sheet Metal worker union… and the guy showed me a stack of papers full of applicants. Of course… everybody wanna be in a union so they make good money and benefits.


In reality… to make good money you gotta be one or more of the following:

a) Good politics - Charisma, “people skills”, etc… Have a wide network of connections… and you're set.
b) Start your business… Business Management is a skill… and you have to be a risk taker.
c) Be willing to do dangerous jobs.





I don't blame colleges, I blame students. I went to a third rate state university, and I learned a lot, I had to try harder, but I managed because while everyone else was drinking, partying and fucking their brains out, I was studying. Sure I had fun, I woke my share of sunday mornings face down in last nights clothes, but I never neglected my studies.

College grads end up working the frier at Mikki D's because they don't strive, they except mediocre as an alternative. Whatever you say about college life its likely the only chance you will have for nearly uninterrupted focus on bettering yourself, you can either achieve or flounder that's up to you. Your proffesor's can't learn for you.

Whatever you do you can't malign the wisdom of encouraging everyone to go to college merely because some folks choose to fritter away the opportunity.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
marine at 2:25AM, Oct. 12, 2007
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I hate people that have the free ride in life and go to college just to be idiotic drunks, then become something of value in their community, but they still feel as bad on the inside as me at the end of the day. Really, no one is happy. Even those happy couples whose eyes you want to just gouge out becuase of their finishing each others sentences, are still unhappy. Probably much worse than a morally ambiguous unemployed loser retard like me.

Mo money, mo problems - Notorious B.I.G.



Rap music aside, college is useless for a guy like me. I've always wanted to be funny and do stand up comedy. I found out how easy it was to get into and got into it. Didn't like it. Now what? Do I get involved with another useless improv group that does nothing? I can't go to clown college, they closed that down.

You know what I've been doing? Self educating. I want to write comic books, so what do I do? I read a shitload of comic books. I could give two shits less about the artwork, but the way their written and layed out is very important to me. I've even started looking at what other popular web comics are doing, to see what I'm doing wrong. Apparently I have to have my comic suck even more.

Instead of buying shitty “how to do comic book” kits, I borrowed books from a girl I know whose in college about writing, I'm considering going strictly by the book and seeing what I can do. I've always fancied myself a cunning linguist, but I'm refining myself with my own education.

I wake up and want to learn about World War 2 or the Vietnam conflict. Rather than watch Hollywood movies, nearly 24/7 are channels like the Military channel, the history channel, pbs, history channel world wide, science channels and discovery channels, and they all have websites to learn stuff on. If I see something as pandering to the lowest common denominator, I flip back over to Law & Order and learn about using a winning formula over and over again. I flip over to the Sopranos and learn how to do overarching stories that run throughout seasons and series.

I am by no means a smart man, but I'll be damned if I ever waist my fucking time at a college. They don't give out degrees to be a rap superstar or to do comic books. Its shit you stumble on one day.

You know I found out a lot of things all you have to do is study up and take a test, without waisting your time? Its next to impossible for a normal person without serious pyschological issues to retain information they learn about mundane topics over a long period of time, but for some reason I know a lot about accounting, marketing, advertising, office infrastructure, real estate, sales, research & development, and I even know a thing or two about being a low level employee type of guy.

And I'm serious when I said that before, college was just a guy saying what books to read and then giving two tests over the course of like six months. Thats six months too long. Take into account the average associates degree for a person is around 3-4 years. They say that its a two year program, but for one reason or another, they end up in it for a few extra years. I know a chick with a two year degree that took her almost eight years to get, but thats beside the point. I could learn just as much on my own terms as I could with some other guy telling me what to do.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
bobhhh at 12:47PM, Oct. 13, 2007
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marine
I hate people that have the free ride in life and go to college just to be idiotic drunks, then become something of value in their community, but they still feel as bad on the inside as me at the end of the day. Really, no one is happy. Even those happy couples whose eyes you want to just gouge out becuase of their finishing each others sentences, are still unhappy. Probably much worse than a morally ambiguous unemployed loser retard like me.

Mo money, mo problems - Notorious B.I.G.



Rap music aside, college is useless for a guy like me. I've always wanted to be funny and do stand up comedy. I found out how easy it was to get into and got into it. Didn't like it. Now what? Do I get involved with another useless improv group that does nothing? I can't go to clown college, they closed that down.

You know what I've been doing? Self educating. I want to write comic books, so what do I do? I read a shitload of comic books. I could give two shits less about the artwork, but the way their written and layed out is very important to me. I've even started looking at what other popular web comics are doing, to see what I'm doing wrong. Apparently I have to have my comic suck even more.

Instead of buying shitty “how to do comic book” kits, I borrowed books from a girl I know whose in college about writing, I'm considering going strictly by the book and seeing what I can do. I've always fancied myself a cunning linguist, but I'm refining myself with my own education.

I wake up and want to learn about World War 2 or the Vietnam conflict. Rather than watch Hollywood movies, nearly 24/7 are channels like the Military channel, the history channel, pbs, history channel world wide, science channels and discovery channels, and they all have websites to learn stuff on. If I see something as pandering to the lowest common denominator, I flip back over to Law & Order and learn about using a winning formula over and over again. I flip over to the Sopranos and learn how to do overarching stories that run throughout seasons and series.

I am by no means a smart man, but I'll be damned if I ever waist my fucking time at a college. They don't give out degrees to be a rap superstar or to do comic books. Its shit you stumble on one day.

You know I found out a lot of things all you have to do is study up and take a test, without waisting your time? Its next to impossible for a normal person without serious pyschological issues to retain information they learn about mundane topics over a long period of time, but for some reason I know a lot about accounting, marketing, advertising, office infrastructure, real estate, sales, research & development, and I even know a thing or two about being a low level employee type of guy.

And I'm serious when I said that before, college was just a guy saying what books to read and then giving two tests over the course of like six months. Thats six months too long. Take into account the average associates degree for a person is around 3-4 years. They say that its a two year program, but for one reason or another, they end up in it for a few extra years. I know a chick with a two year degree that took her almost eight years to get, but thats beside the point. I could learn just as much on my own terms as I could with some other guy telling me what to do.

Boy, and I thought I was a curmudgeon.

Sure Lincoln studied on his own and became president, but I would argue that he was the exception to the rule, and maybe you are too, but the fact remains that you get a lot from books, but you don't get things like socratic dialog and interaction with your peers.

You may think your prof was just a walking “to read” list, and maybe you know some profs who suck, but I have had many inspiring professors, including a colorful Jimmy Breslin type TV writer from the Golden age of television named Sam Dann. His insight and whimsical sarcasm was a delight and I could have read ten stacks of books and I would never have learned what I did from attending his class.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
trevoramueller at 1:56PM, Oct. 15, 2007
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The way the business world is right now, having a college degree is like having a high school diploma was 10 years ago - it's standard.

If you don't have a BA in “something,” most places won't even look at your resume. However, if you don't have a crap-ton of experience, you won't really appeal to them either.

Having been in the corporate world for a while now, I've found that many people here have a college degree - but still they turn away people with lack of experience. So it's not just enough to get into college and make it through college, but you also have to do some stand-out activities and achievements during college.

I was hired into my current job because I had 16+ credits hours every semester, 2 jobs, 1 internship, was an executive board member of the Ad Club for 2 years, managed a website AND had a social life. Grade point average: 3.7

They don't give me enough work here. ;)
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last edited on July 14, 2011 4:33PM
okamimako at 3:59AM, Oct. 18, 2007
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I think the idea of college is good… but it's flawed, especially in today's society, as someone else had already pointed out. There's so much pressure to get into college, whether or not you actually want to, whereas some people can't even afford the type of education they want. I, for example, want to go to a more unconventional college, small class sizes, etc, yet there's no way in hell that I'm going to afford it. I know that I'd be able to learn in a place like that. On the other hand, the places that I can afford are places I don't really care to go to, like universities. Though cheaper on the whole, I don't really see myself caring enough to actually try in a place like that. To me, it'll be an extension of high school, with too many classes I couldn't give half a rat's ass about, as well as the inclusion of all those idiots. Everyone promotes going to college, but it's a pity that many good ones are inaccessable to those that want to go there.

The only thing I'm worried about is college becoming compulsory because you can't get any job at all without a degree. Now that system is messed up: Congratulations! You've just sacrificed twelves years of your life to the public school system! Now you have to sacrifice an additional six to more education, except now you have to pay for it!

I'm just curious if, eventually, everyone will just rebel against going to college. Way too many smart people that I know are so fed up with this college thing that they don't want to go there anymore.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:20PM
joeychips at 12:40PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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The whole education system is messed up. It goes deeper that harder entrance exams. The problem is a system that offers many degrees for careers that don't exists or won't exist in the next decade, and uninspired educators just collecting a paycheck. That's why we home school as much as possible.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:10PM
trevoramueller at 8:35AM, Oct. 19, 2007
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I don't see the harm in more education that's a little more specific to what you want to get into, and I understand the need for everyone to go to maintain an equal level of competition with more educated people - but some people are just damn good at what they do, and it shouldn't be held against them that they don't have a BA in whatever field they want to go into.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to having education continue beyond college. Having been out of school for 3 years now, I miss learning new things and having access to the community of college. Specifically, I'd like to learn more language skills and sharpen my writing a bit - which is tough to do when you're working a full-time job.

I kind of miss learning….
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last edited on July 14, 2011 4:33PM
okamimako at 4:03PM, Oct. 19, 2007
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trevoramueller
I wouldn't be opposed to having education continue beyond college. Having been out of school for 3 years now, I miss learning new things and having access to the community of college.

I think that college reinforces the weird idea that you can't learn anything without a teacher, a class, and $300 less out of your pocket. If anybody'd like, I can go on my stupid little rant about the American school system totally screwing up our country's youth, though I'll save everyone it right now.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:21PM
ozoneocean at 3:11AM, Oct. 20, 2007
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ike i said; success is all relative. if your goal in life is to drive to the office everyday, have a mortgage, and look down your nose at the guy making your food or mowing your lawn , then maybe college is for you !
That's pretty wise, a lot about the system encourages a path to conformity, not by design, it's just that a lot of people seem to have an inbuilt “herd” mentality and a lot of the things we do are just part of that.



Wow, a lot of good things have been said here! Heh. Hmm, when it comes to tertiary education institutions, most of it is ostensibly geared toward learning, but that's not why you get good jobs out of it, if you do. The things is, it's probably 30% learning and 70% social tool:
Having been to certain institutions, gaining certain grades, qualifications, degrees etc, these simply increase status, -but only for the people in the fields you need to impress. And while you're actually AT the institutions, you network with people who can help you later on as well as learning how to network in general as well as specifically in those particular fields you want to move into. Those people include students who will be able to help you when they get there before you (work in your field), lecturers and teachers who already have experience, and industry contacts and employers who have relationships with the institution.

Look, the study is part of it, since it'll get you the “impressive” degree, but you should not miss out on the other social aspects as well! And the longer you stay in the tertiary environment, the better you learn the system and how to get the best out of it, but DON'T stay in there too long or else a tertiary environment is where you'll stay because that's all you'll be able to deal with. lol!
-getting a masters is good, but getting another masters or a doctorate is pushing it.

Ah, I also think that the US isn't a good environment for that kind of thing. From an outsider's perspective it all seems FAR too status and money based. Far too much much like the corrosive and archaic British class system, except that lots of money helps augment and somewhat replace the “class” function. -at least at the “higher” end…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
bobhhh at 1:09PM, Oct. 20, 2007
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lothar
ike i said; success is all relative. if your goal in life is to drive to the office everyday, have a mortgage, and look down your nose at the guy making your food or mowing your lawn , then maybe college is for you !
That's pretty wise, a lot about the system encourages a path to conformity, not by design, it's just that a lot of people seem to have an inbuilt “herd” mentality and a lot of the things we do are just part of that.



Wow, a lot of good things have been said here! Heh. Hmm, when it comes to tertiary education institutions, most of it is ostensibly geared toward learning, but that's not why you get good jobs out of it, if you do. The things is, it's probably 30% learning and 70% social tool:
Having been to certain institutions, gaining certain grades, qualifications, degrees etc, these simply increase status, -but only for the people in the fields you need to impress. And while you're actually AT the institutions, you network with people who can help you later on as well as learning how to network in general as well as specifically in those particular fields you want to move into. Those people include students who will be able to help you when they get there before you (work in your field), lecturers and teachers who already have experience, and industry contacts and employers who have relationships with the institution.

Look, the study is part of it, since it'll get you the “impressive” degree, but you should not miss out on the other social aspects as well! And the longer you stay in the tertiary environment, the better you learn the system and how to get the best out of it, but DON'T stay in there too long or else a tertiary environment is where you'll stay because that's all you'll be able to deal with. lol!
-getting a masters is good, but getting another masters or a doctorate is pushing it.

Ah, I also think that the US isn't a good environment for that kind of thing. From an outsider's perspective it all seems FAR too status and money based. Far too much much like the corrosive and archaic British class system, except that lots of money helps augment and somewhat replace the “class” function. -at least at the “higher” end…

These are all good points, but mostly a critique of social issues. A university education is what you make of it. If you come to it with an agenda, then that's what you will take from it. Again I blame the students for not using the experience to its maximum possibility to enrich, challenge and stretch yourself to your fullest potential.

This is the responsibility of the student not the institution.

Professors and universities cannot compell you to become more enlightened if you are focused on simply improving your chances to get better wages and socially network.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Hawk at 5:20PM, Oct. 20, 2007
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ozoneocean
Ah, I also think that the US isn't a good environment for that kind of thing. From an outsider's perspective it all seems FAR too status and money based. Far too much much like the corrosive and archaic British class system, except that lots of money helps augment and somewhat replace the “class” function. -at least at the “higher” end…

What you're saying could be true for the ivy league schools like Harvard and Yale and stuff… But there are a LOT more colleges and universities in the United States, and a surprising amount of them are quite attainable to your average middle-class family, sometimes poorer. State colleges can still get you into a decent career.

Plus, let me just be blunt… I've seen all sorts of scholarships for people who are black, female, latino, or homosexual. If minorities want to just apply themselves and write and essay or something, they can make getting to college a lot easier.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
bobhhh at 10:03PM, Oct. 20, 2007
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Hawk
ozoneocean
Ah, I also think that the US isn't a good environment for that kind of thing. From an outsider's perspective it all seems FAR too status and money based. Far too much much like the corrosive and archaic British class system, except that lots of money helps augment and somewhat replace the “class” function. -at least at the “higher” end…

What you're saying could be true for the ivy league schools like Harvard and Yale and stuff… But there are a LOT more colleges and universities in the United States, and a surprising amount of them are quite attainable to your average middle-class family, sometimes poorer. State colleges can still get you into a decent career.

Plus, let me just be blunt… I've seen all sorts of scholarships for people who are black, female, latino, or homosexual. If minorities want to just apply themselves and write and essay or something, they can make getting to college a lot easier.

Blunt is fine. You just reinforce the notion that those who strive achieve. The truth is often blunt.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Fuzzy Modem at 1:08PM, Oct. 21, 2007
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subcultured
there needs to be a stricter test to go to college.
people should be educated to go to college, if not then they should take preparation classes to get to college.

other countries do it, so they don't goof around trying to act free while spending their parent's money. US college nowadays are a joke, majority of people go there just to party.

I couldn't disagree more.

I flunked out of High school and got my GED. (98th percentile thank you)

In college I maintained a 4.0 GPA.

In college they respected me you see. No roll call, no permission slips to take a piss, and If I didn't do the work the professor didn't give a shit. I was treated as an adult, which at 16 meant enough to me that I was skipping my high school classes to audit college courses.

Should I not have been let in based on my GED?

Now I pose this to you- You should be able to think to go to college. High school is about learning how things work (intellegence.) College should be about why things work (wisdom.)

My Dad is a professor of American Pre-History. His primary criteria is that you think in his class. If you're only interested in memorizing dates and facts so you can gestate them later on command then you aren't learning anything, and he will fail you. (which isn't to say he won't make you memorise everything, he will. I'm very glad I never had to take one of my Dad's courses.)

College isn't about looking good on a resume, or being able to prove that you've learned something. It's about creative thought, growing up, and building some character. It's about learning how to have an opinion, and knowing why you think what you think. That's what “dream job” employers are looking for. You don't wanna have to think? Go flip burgers or join the army and stop wasting the time of the wise.


I've given up following my dreams. I just asked where they're going and I'm gonna meet them there.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:32PM
bobhhh at 6:56PM, Oct. 21, 2007
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posts: 893
joined: 5-12-2007
Fuzzy Modem
subcultured
there needs to be a stricter test to go to college.
people should be educated to go to college, if not then they should take preparation classes to get to college.

other countries do it, so they don't goof around trying to act free while spending their parent's money. US college nowadays are a joke, majority of people go there just to party.

I couldn't disagree more.

I flunked out of High school and got my GED. (98th percentile thank you)

In college I maintained a 4.0 GPA.

In college they respected me you see. No roll call, no permission slips to take a piss, and If I didn't do the work the professor didn't give a shit. I was treated as an adult, which at 16 meant enough to me that I was skipping my high school classes to audit college courses.

Should I not have been let in based on my GED?

Now I pose this to you- You should be able to think to go to college. High school is about learning how things work (intellegence.) College should be about why things work (wisdom.)

My Dad is a professor of American Pre-History. His primary criteria is that you think in his class. If you're only interested in memorizing dates and facts so you can gestate them later on command then you aren't learning anything, and he will fail you. (which isn't to say he won't make you memorise everything, he will. I'm very glad I never had to take one of my Dad's courses.)

College isn't about looking good on a resume, or being able to prove that you've learned something. It's about creative thought, growing up, and building some character. It's about learning how to have an opinion, and knowing why you think what you think. That's what “dream job” employers are looking for. You don't wanna have to think? Go flip burgers or join the army and stop wasting the time of the wise.

This is why universities will always be better than staying at home and only reading books.

When you learn how to write a research paper in freshman year, its not just an arbitrary requirement, it serves to focus your mind and sharpen your arguments so you can share your perspective with others and form a body of thought that you both contribute to and draw strength from.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM

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