Debate and Discussion

Comics with 'risky' subject matter-- A No-No to you?
Frostflowers at 1:37AM, Feb. 18, 2008
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Like DAJB, I think all of these are alright to read as long as they're handled correctly. And by correctly, I mean “never reduced to a mere plot-device”. I will probably back away from a comic that has pedophilia in it, because I have this deep-seated aversion to it - it squicks me in ways I can't even begin to describe - and I will tread warily around a comic that depicts rape, simply because it is something I also feel very strongly about (and I've come across way too many stories on the ‘net - and, indeed, people on the ’net - who treat it as if it doesn't really matter, when it's something that has a deep and traumatic impact on the victim.)

I've never had a problem with graphic gore, though. As long as the gore doesn't become the plot, I'll flip through an entire comic book's worth of bloody intestines and severed limbs and not bat an eyelash.


I was surprised to see homosexuality on the list - perhaps it's because I live in Sweden, where any sort of hate speech against a group of people - defined by religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation - is grounds for up to two years in prison, and therefore at least verbal homophobia is uncommon. Is homosexuality still such a controversial and ‘risky’ subject, especially in webcomics? I mean, OP has a yuri webcomic, and the yaoi genre (with all of its unfortunate clichés about homosexuals) is going very strong, both in webcomics and published equivalent.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
Steely Gaze at 4:13AM, Feb. 18, 2008
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…I was surprised to see homosexuality on the list - perhaps it's because I live in Sweden, where any sort of hate speech against a group of people - defined by religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation - is grounds for up to two years in prison, and therefore at least verbal homophobia is uncommon. Is homosexuality still such a controversial and ‘risky’ subject, especially in webcomics? I mean, OP has a yuri webcomic, and the yaoi genre (with all of its unfortunate clichés about homosexuals) is going very strong, both in webcomics and published equivalent.

Well I'm sort of responsible for adding homosexuality to the list. See, I took risky to mean anything not mainstream, and over here in the States, homosexuality is anything but mainstream.

It's a lot more accepted now than it was even ten years ago, but there are still a large number of people over here who would immediately stop reading a comic if the main character turned out to be gay.

Of course in webcomics, you'll see a lot less intolerance, but it's still commonplace enough for me to consider it risky.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:57PM
zero rose at 4:34AM, Feb. 18, 2008
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Homosexuality in comics, especially webcomics, doesn't seem risky to me, but maybe it's the times we live in. (Or maybe it's because my webcomic has homosexuality in it and it didn't feel so taboo) Most taboo subjects are hard to talk about things like the Holocaust and genocide should be discussed on a more cautious level, like how Maus handled it. I think the problem is that most taboo subjects are being carried out of control in some webcomics where its just violence, rape, and borderline insanity. I don't know if its me but complicated things should be carried out intelligently and sort of discussed in a comic. Not literally “discussed” that is, but all views should be shown and the reality of the matter should be known. But that's just what I think…
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:57PM
mlai at 5:26AM, Feb. 18, 2008
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Homosexuality seems accepted because it's taken with conditions.

-It's unrealistic, like all boys'-love webmanga…
-It's a comic delving into current events issues on subject…
-It's a humor comic so the characters are allowed to be more fringe…

If it's the above, it's ok. But imagine the mass freakout if DC announced that Superman is gay. Hell, if it announced that Superman now has a black girlfriend.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
Frostflowers at 8:00AM, Feb. 18, 2008
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Good points, all of you. As usual, I used myself and my immediate surroundings as a base of reference, and I and the people I know (both in real life and online) are pretty relaxed and groovy as far as homosexuality are concerned. :)

mlai
Homosexuality seems accepted because it's taken with conditions.

-It's unrealistic, like all boys'-love webmanga…
-It's a comic delving into current events issues on subject…
-It's a humor comic so the characters are allowed to be more fringe…

If it's the above, it's ok. But imagine the mass freakout if DC announced that Superman is gay. Hell, if it announced that Superman now has a black girlfriend.
I suppose you're right…

- The yaoi/boys'-love genre is indeed unrealistic - even more so than the idealised shojou manga which frequently relies on nothing but cliches - which is probably why I've never been able to get truly into one. The seme-uke stereotypes are overbearing, and I'd give good money to get my hands on a yaoi/BL comic that doesn't rely on those particular stereotypes.

And re: Superman - yeah, I can imagine the outrage. Not only would they be working against people's prejudices, but also against decades of well established backstory and character development. But then, DC does seem to like retconning, so maybe one day, eh? ;)
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
simonitro at 8:43AM, Feb. 18, 2008
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I don't mind controversial subjects when it comes to comics but there are several things that I cringe and I just avoid them.

I don't like homosexuality. Period. That doesn't mean it has to be bad for someone who doesn't like a specific topic. It depends on what makes you satisfied when you're reading. What makes me feel unconfortable when having homosexuality and pedophile in the same comic. Pedophile is bad by itself but when a 20 year old guy flirts with a 10 year old boy, that's fucking twisted.

I don't mind violence or gore or whatever. I kinda got used to it. Religion aspect… I'm pretty open-minded. I, sometimes, like it when two lovers from different religions hook up example a Chrisitan chick with a Muslim guy or the other way around. However, they make it a big fuss here in the Middle East (fuck them).

All in all, it all depends on what satisfies you.


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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:38PM
Skullbie at 11:28AM, Feb. 18, 2008
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Frostflowers
The seme-uke stereotypes are overbearing, and I'd give good money to get my hands on a yaoi/BL comic that doesn't rely on those particular stereotypes.


I've thought for a while, trying to think up on good realistic yaoi title for you, and nothing came to mind. :( I used to be a hardcore yaoi fangirl too, so I've seen most manga, anime, and yaoi webcomics-they all have that same ‘girly uke is trying to resist hawt confidant seme’ thing.
With yuri I could easily give you 40+ realistic titles, but oh well. lol!


I thought more people would mention incest, I don't mind the fictional kind myself, but I thought more would have trouble with it. lol!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:45PM
Frostflowers at 12:00PM, Feb. 18, 2008
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Frostflowers
The seme-uke stereotypes are overbearing, and I'd give good money to get my hands on a yaoi/BL comic that doesn't rely on those particular stereotypes.


I've thought for a while, trying to think up on good realistic yaoi title for you, and nothing came to mind. :( I used to be a hardcore yaoi fangirl too, so I've seen most manga, anime, and yaoi webcomics-they all have that same ‘girly uke is trying to resist hawt confidant seme’ thing.
With yuri I could easily give you 40+ realistic titles, but oh well. lol!
I'm not really a yaoi fan as such - it's just that if it does come up, I don't mind it. As far as anime goes, I've got a dorky love for One Piece, and when looking for other anime to watch, I usually go for the meatier plot and character development rather than pure romance (there are exceptions - I go all fuzzy on the inside when watching Victorian Romance Emma).

It's kind of interesting how there's more realistic material with yuri. Perhaps it's because yuri is not quite as “big” a genre as yaoi? While we're on yuri - got any anime/manga recs for me?


And re: incest… In real life, it sort of bothers me, because a lot of incestual relationships are parent/child, which involves a power/consent-issue I won't step into here because that's a whole can of worms. But in comics/fictional settings? It can be interesting, as long as it's done well.

But then again, that seems to be the catch-all phrase for fiction - “anything can work, as long as it's done well”.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
alibaba at 12:56PM, Feb. 18, 2008
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Atheism

LOL.



well, if “normal” entertainment and information is sugar, then i'd say that controversial topics are the salt.
it would be horribly boring if every author carefully tried to avoid that “dangerous terrain”.
i think its extremely important to adress taboo-issues, so that people stay aware of them and try to understand them, not just ignore 'em… even if they are really unpleasant.

i have a good example: the nazi “hakenkreuz” is strictly forbidden in all schools here in germany, meaning, it must never be drawn anywhere (in some cases not even in books and class!). the children in school know that its forbidden, they know its “evil”… but they have no idea what it really is.

until the later classes, they mostly aren't told what the swastika truly is.
so what do you think they do?
of course they write it on every wall!

forbidden fruits taste best. the only remedy is knowledge.

if they knew that swastika are holy symbols in other countrys and understood how hitler missused them, they would have no reason at all using them as a sign of personal expression, at least not in stupid ways like that.
hck, they should just make “Maus” a textbook in schools XD !

therefore i think using controversial topics in literature, comics, etc. is actually quite “healthy” for our minds :D - but they have to be used wisely.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
CoyoteLongshot at 1:34PM, Feb. 18, 2008
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I dunno what y'all's deal is, I think all those things make a comic better.

Seriously though, some of these issues are a lot more common than others. Homosexuality/yaoi is huge these days, and I would hardly compare something like that to pedophilia or incest. I think that if you want to set that dark tone for your comic you'll still have an audience because there are a lot of people who, believe it or not, want to see that kind of stuff. I'll read a comic with these things in it, as long as it's got a gripping story, and does them semi-tastefully. Sometimes the really dark stuff can aid the narrative in a way nothing else can.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:47AM
Skullbie at 2:42PM, Feb. 18, 2008
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Frostflowers
It's kind of interesting how there's more realistic material with yuri. Perhaps it's because yuri is not quite as “big” a genre as yaoi? While we're on yuri - got any anime/manga recs for me?

I spent most of my time in this thread talking about yuri lol!

It's not because it's not as big as yuri, no offense to yaoi but yuri attracts more mature audiences. I'm not talking age, just the type of person who watches it.
My proof is the difference you see in a yaoi or yuri forum.
Yuri tends to have nice helpful discussions and it's pretty quiet, while on a yaoi forums it's crazy wee-a-boo speak and flames being tossed around against it's own fanbase! But for all I know this could happen to yuri if it(hopefully) gets more popular.

animu/manga recs, I'm into the girly drama types but if you like realistic settings: try Girlfriends by morinaga milk, maria-sama ga miteru, simoun(you may hate the designs)
And if you're into ultra realistic manga: Free soul, pieta, and shibuya district have realistic characters. get most at lililicious.net


@Alibaba
Well said! :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:45PM
kyupol at 5:25PM, Feb. 18, 2008
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'Risky' subject matter examples:
Incest
Rape
Alcoholism
Atheism
racism
Homosexuality(edit for steely gaze)
Pedophilia
Self-mutilation
Graphic Gore(yech)
ETC.


As long as they're relevant to the story and not thrown in there for the sake of doing it. I wouldnt really give you shit if you make a story like that.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Aurora Moon at 5:45PM, Feb. 18, 2008
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I agree with everyone else that said that everything metioned can be fine if used in a tasteful manner.

After all, take pedophila– not much is understood about the subject, and it doesn't have to be all about some guy raping children. In fact, there's a lot of pedophiles who don't go out of thier way to touch children at all, and basically suffers from the knowlege that they're attracted to children. Some of those who are aware that they have a problem are unable to help themselves on thier own, and there's not much help out there for them to “cure” their problem. In fact, some of those same pedophiles were molested when they were children, conbruiting to mental illness.

So the story could be all about a child who was molested (you wouldn't have to show that scene, just imply it), and had a family who swept that under the rug as to pretend that it never happened. And the child, who never got the help and consueling he needed, grows up to be a pedophile. He has a great mistrust of other adults, even as an adult himself. He regonizes that he's suffering from some sort of mental illness that was caused by his childhood tranma. He lives everyday under the constant fear that he might one day finally crack and harm a child. And He wants to find some help, but the people out there is more likely to treat him like a criminal rather than a person seeking help if they hear any metion of his pedohilic fetish.

You wouldn't have to focus on the child abuse too much, just focus on pedophila for what it really was– a mental illness that can harm a lot of people, even the person who has it. You could even focus on how hysteria of the media on the subject can actually do more harm than good.

So you see, even the most taboo of subjects can be explored without actually offending anybody. You would have to be careful on how you handled it.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Skullbie at 6:57PM, Feb. 18, 2008
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main topic
'Risky' subject matter examples:
Incest
Rape
Alcoholism
Atheism
racism
Homosexuality(edit for steely gaze)
Pedophilia
Self-mutilation
Graphic Gore(yech)
ETC.

Alright I'm going to combine all of these into a story right now, for the lulz, and to see if i can make it good:
Karen is a girl who lives with her older sister after their parents were found brutally maimed. The bond karen has with her sister is questionable, but all that changes when karens sister is murdured-in the same way her parents were.
Karen sets out on a self-destructive path to find the culprit, and finds not all is what they seem with the local church-they are after her now, because of a special unknown power she has that is activated by slicing her flesh.
She gets into even deeper trouble when she finds the resident priest in pedophilic relations with the alter boys- 8 days later the boy turns up, brutally murdered like karens sister.
But with the help of a forever drunken cop, a turkey sandwich, an escaped rape victim of the church, and another with her power Karen is determined to put an end to it-


Well that was interesting, I don't really care for dark stories though. lol!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:45PM
Dirk Zephyrs at 7:46PM, Feb. 18, 2008
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main topic
'Risky' subject matter examples:
Incest
Rape
Alcoholism
Atheism
racism
Homosexuality(edit for steely gaze)
Pedophilia
Self-mutilation
Graphic Gore(yech)
ETC.

Alright I'm going to combine all of these into a story right now, for the lulz, and to see if i can make it good:
Karen is a girl who lives with her older sister after their parents were found brutally maimed. The bond karen has with her sister is questionable, but all that changes when karens sister is murdured-in the same way her parents were.
Karen sets out on a self-destructive path to find the culprit, and finds not all is what they seem with the local church-they are after her now, because of a special unknown power she has that is activated by slicing her flesh.
She gets into even deeper trouble when she finds the resident priest in pedophilic relations with the alter boys- 8 days later the boy turns up, brutally murdered like karens sister.
But with the help of a forever drunken cop, a turkey sandwich, an escaped rape victim of the church, and another with her power Karen is determined to put an end to it-


Well that was interesting, I don't really care for dark stories though. lol!

THIS MUST BE WRITTEN
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Don't be afraid to care.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:11PM
mlai at 5:39AM, Feb. 19, 2008
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Dirk Zephyrs
THIS MUST BE WRITTEN
It must not.

The resulting Mary Sue score will instantly crash that MS Litmus Test website.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
horseboy at 7:59PM, Feb. 19, 2008
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mlai
If it's the above, it's ok. But imagine the mass freakout if DC announced that Superman is gay. Hell, if it announced that Superman now has a black girlfriend.
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!! Are you trying to say Superman isn't gay? huh!?

I love a good train wreck. Why lie? Somewhere on my archives I've squirreled away copies of the Doom Comic and F.A.T.A.L. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't get more insulting.

Topics won't drive me away, bad characters drive me away. That and preaching to me. I hate it when I get preached to, especially when I'm trying to be entertained.
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Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
kyupol at 9:11PM, Feb. 19, 2008
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Alright I'm going to combine all of these into a story right now, for the lulz, and to see if i can make it good:
Karen is a girl who lives with her older sister after their parents were found brutally maimed. The bond karen has with her sister is questionable, but all that changes when karens sister is murdured-in the same way her parents were.
Karen sets out on a self-destructive path to find the culprit, and finds not all is what they seem with the local church-they are after her now, because of a special unknown power she has that is activated by slicing her flesh.
She gets into even deeper trouble when she finds the resident priest in pedophilic relations with the alter boys- 8 days later the boy turns up, brutally murdered like karens sister.
But with the help of a forever drunken cop, a turkey sandwich, an escaped rape victim of the church, and another with her power Karen is determined to put an end to it-


Well that was interesting, I don't really care for dark stories though.

Write it.

Nitpick crit: I prefer a male protagonist.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Frostflowers at 1:23AM, Feb. 20, 2008
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horseboy
I love a good train wreck. Why lie? Somewhere on my archives I've squirreled away copies of the Doom Comic and F.A.T.A.L. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't get more insulting.
The Doom comic is hilarity on a stick (That's the “Rip and tear your guts!” one, isn't it?), but F.A.T.A.L? F.A.T.A.L? Why would you keep such a thing? It will slowly poison your harddrive and turn it into a pit of such wicked unholiness that it will summon Chtulu and bring about the end of worlds.

Also, if you've actually read all the way through it, you have won not only the internet and life in general, but probably also a Knighthood of the British Empire. For serious. I could never make it past the effing introduction.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
TitanOne at 11:31AM, Feb. 21, 2008
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The only one of those I have a problem with is Racism, and pedophilia… I just don't think they're really needed in a story of any sort.



These are natural thoughts that people have. I'll be the first person on this website to admit that I look girls younger than me in a lustful fashion. I don't have sex with them, but I refuse to change the way I am or how I think.

Well, unless you are thirteen years of age, what you cited above isn't pedophilia.
People married in their early to mid teens, and had babies, all the time on the American frontier. Were they all a bunch of pedophiles?

Part of the problem with what's “risky” is that nowadays our verbiage is so full of hyperbole, based on what we subjectively do and do not like. And the more politicized the speech, the greater the hype. Gun control advocates have been known to call shootings between rival 17-and-18 year olds in street gangs “child homicides”. We're so subjective with these things, what is and isn't adult seems to have a sliding curve. In Wal-Mart, unless you “look over 40”, your ID must be checked to buy alcohol now. It's getting silly.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
DAJB at 12:25AM, Feb. 22, 2008
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You know, I find it worrying that this is even an issue among people who make and read comics themselves. It smacks of arbitrary censorship and is a hang-over from the bad old days of Wertham. (That man has sooo much to answer for!)

We wouldn't think of telling an author that any of those matters should not be made the subject of a novel or a play. Yes, comics are a more visual medium than novels but so is film. Think of all the great films that would never have been made if we were to make these subjects taboo. Does anyone really believe Lolita should never have been written. Or Flowers in the Attic? Or even Brokeback Mountain? What about Oedipus Rex or Othello or Jude the Obscure?

I'm delighted that most people here do seem to believe that these subjects are okay if properly handled but comics - as we know them today - have been around for nearly 100 years now. We should be beyond the point of having to discuss what is or is not acceptable subject matter - at least amongst ourselves. The more we try to put constraints on comics that don't apply to other mediums, the longer they'll be considered a medium fit only for children to read.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
dueeast at 6:56AM, Feb. 22, 2008
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DAJB, I generally agree with you. I've been sitting back and thinking this one through before responding.

My perspective is this: stories that tackle controversial subject matters are always subjected to more scrutiny than say, a comedy. So, if the writer does a bad or stereotypical job, they will be judged on the results in their work. If they conveyed the subject matter with respect and with a distinct point and with art that helps convey the writing well, then it will be judged a good work. If not, it will be ripped to shreds and/or hated. Even if people are repulsed by the subject matter, if it's handled delicately and written well, all will be forgiven and it will be a good story.

A comic writer can't be afraid of tackling risky subject matter. For crying out loud, I co-write a Christian comic book! Should I be afraid of potentially offending someone? Of course not. My wife and I just try to write the best story we can and hope people enjoy it. If we don't, the readers will let us know.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:17PM
mapaghimagsik at 11:25AM, Feb. 22, 2008
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Skullbie
Todays comic audience seems pretty lax.
But how do you personally feel about comics with risky subject matter?
I'm not talking Graphic scenes, just using it for the plot–

'Risky' subject matter examples:
Incest
Rape
Alcoholism
Atheism
racism
Homosexuality(edit for steely gaze)
Pedophilia
Self-mutilation
Graphic Gore(yech)
ETC.




Quite a list. I'm not sure Atheism belongs up there with Pedophilia. And “using it for the plot” is a pretty loose association as well.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
freefall_drift at 12:34PM, Feb. 22, 2008
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I donno about some of that being risky. Gay is getting mainstream. What is a steely gaze anyway?
I'm doing a story where all the main characters are unanshamedly gay. My feeling was “Deal with It”. I agonized on how x rated to make it, but eventually settled on keeping the sex off camera. I wanted to be able to show my elderly mom, the comic.

I personally don't have an interest in Self-mutilation or Graphic Gore, the topics don't do anything for me. There was a paper comic, I think it was titled Faust, that was disturbingly gory. After skimming that, what's the point of trying to top it?

The other topics, Incest, Rape, Alcoholism, Atheism, Religion, Racism, Homosexuality, Pedophilia are all fodder for some great stories. if you want to explore themes of conflict and society, how it handles/deals/fails the people on the fringe, it's likely to get into those topics.

I find that my characters, have many of these events happen to them in their past, that each of these are things they have to deal with, rise above or descend into. (Except the gore, again, why bother?).

Anyone read the comic Brat Pack by Vietch? That covered most of those topics.

Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
freefall_drift at 12:46PM, Feb. 22, 2008
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Anyone remember Harold and Maude? He was a teenager, She was 65. How about Mary Kay Laterno(sp?) It's that double standard, If the boy is 13, he's getting lucky, if the girl if 13, the man's is a monster. And don't let the guy be black and girl white. Or don't let both be guys. And so on…
And the taboo subjects change over time.
Was watching, of all things, Porkys 2 from the early 80s?. They had brief male frontal nudity of some thugs. I don't think they would do that today.
How about Blazing Saddles. They used words that nobody would risk using today.
Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
Hawk at 1:14PM, Feb. 22, 2008
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One day I was watching cartoons and I thought, “I wonder if they'll ever have a cartoon aimed at kids that just happens to have a gay character in it.” I didn't have to think long to realize why they haven't already, and it's not an issue of the moral rights and wrongs of homosexuality. It's because when you address a person's sexuality in TV show, you invariably have to address sex itself.

You can't know a person it gay without knowing that they're attracted to the same gender. Homosexuality is tied too closely to sex.

I suppose you can try to handle sexuality bluntly from a physical attraction point of view. But even if you are careful to leave sex out of the picture, homosexuality is still a difficult topic to discuss with very young children. That's why I would consider it “risky subject matter”.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
mapaghimagsik at 1:48PM, Feb. 22, 2008
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Hawk
One day I was watching cartoons and I thought, “I wonder if they'll ever have a cartoon aimed at kids that just happens to have a gay character in it.” I didn't have to think long to realize why they haven't already, and it's not an issue of the moral rights and wrongs of homosexuality. It's because when you address a person's sexuality in TV show, you invariably have to address sex itself.

You can't know a person it gay without knowing that they're attracted to the same gender. Homosexuality is tied too closely to sex.

I suppose you can try to handle sexuality bluntly from a physical attraction point of view. But even if you are careful to leave sex out of the picture, homosexuality is still a difficult topic to discuss with very young children. That's why I would consider it “risky subject matter”.

From what you've written it sounds like sexuality in general is risky, which for young kids, I'd be inclined to agree.

At the same time, kids comics have infatuations, which don't necessarily become sexually explicit.

I really liked the movie “Billy Elliot” because if they had toned the language down, it really could have been for younger viewers, with a wide variety of sexualities on display (they were all kids, who didn't engage in any activities, but had crushes and infatuations) the main character was – in effect – non sexual. They were so driven by their pasttime that their own sexuality didn't really come into it. Considering how hyper-sexualized many movies are (if there's a male and female lead, there has to be an attraction or something) it was refreshing to see a character that wasn't – if only because their obsessions went in a *completely* other direction.

I guess another point that seems important is that homosexuality is more than sex. Unless you see hetero relationships as only sexual relationships (some are).
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
PottymouthPress at 2:24PM, Feb. 22, 2008
(offline)
posts: 13
joined: 2-17-2007
The best way I can sum it up is “It's not the gun that's dangerous, but how it is used”. Every single one of the above mentioned subjects has been presented in an episode of CSI if not all at the same time. It's all about how it's presented

-Lead character has horrible self esteem issues because he was raped by his father; certainly terrible, but presented as background for a story. (OK)

-Lead character gets drunk and rapes daughter while beating his wife swearing at God at got and wiping his ass with pages of the Bible…….yeah, not so good. (DAS BAD MAN!)

-Lead character gets drunk constantly (meh, get over it).

-Lead character gets drunk constantly and the story show his downfall due to alcohol. (Pertanent story plot point).

-Lead character gives minor alcohol and story presents it in a acceptable light (NOT GOOD).

There really can be no standard as far as what's off limit and what's not. There will be things that are considered to be in poor tase, and if this were advertising, there would be guideline set in stone. But for what it is that we want to accomplish as artist, when we start trying to decide what is or isn't OK to do, rather than identifying it in poor or good taste, or what is taboo, well……it feels like we're folding in the top of that box we all pride ourselves on thinking outside of.
Am I saying people don't have the right to be offended? Of course not. It's your opinion and you are always entitled to it. Am I saying that an artist should be able to incorporate anything that they feel is important to the theme of the story? FUCK YES!!! That's why we are all on this site and creating what we create. We can't please everyone, but we can say whatever is going on in our heads! That's what makes art so great.
I consider a lot of things “risky subjects”, but don't we make our comics for those who can enjoy them. It's freedom.

So yeah, say someone makes a comic called “The Alcohol Induced Sexual Afterlife Adventures of Natalie Holloway and Steve Irwin”. Yes, it's in poor taste and maybe only 10 people in the whole world really enjoyed reading it, but I don't want to be the one standing in line to tell this person “You shouldn't have done that.” I don't want someone telling me that shit either. I ofetn find that, for better or worse, whether you comic or art in general is widely accepted or crtically shredded to pieces, somewhere in between the bond of producing our work and those that did enjoy it, we find a pice of ourselves. I hope no one is denied that.

Unless it ADVOCATES raping children or beating your spouse, I feel anything is fair game. And for clarification, ADVOCATING is not the same as presenting it as a plot point.

There, I'm done!
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:47PM
freefall_drift at 2:25PM, Feb. 22, 2008
(online)
posts: 260
joined: 6-19-2007
Hawk
One day I was watching cartoons and I thought, “I wonder if they'll ever have a cartoon aimed at kids that just happens to have a gay character in it.” … It's because when you address a person's sexuality in TV show, you invariably have to address sex itself.
Ha! Spoken like someone who sounds straight. It's like water to fish thing, you only notice the water when it's gone. It's only when you address a person's sexuality that is not STRAIGHT that causes the problem. Aang the airbender likes Katara, Sokka likes that girl with the face paints, nobody says THAT attraction has to address sex. it's sweet, but it's like air, not even seen. But you have Zuko and Sokka find they kind of like each other, and watch people's heads explode.
Do you see my point of the double standard? I generalize here but if it's a straight attraction, it's perfectly OK and if it's gay attractions, it's perfectly NOT.
If Aang looks at Katara, when they are trapped in a cave, and blushes, it's cute and innocent.
If Zuko looks at Sokka, when they are trapped in a cave, and blushes, that's addressing sex?
Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
freefall_drift at 2:50PM, Feb. 22, 2008
(online)
posts: 260
joined: 6-19-2007
PottymouthPress
The best way I can sum it up is “It's not the gun that's dangerous, but how it is used”. Every single one of the above mentioned subjects has been presented in an episode of CSI
Nice Post. It's the way the topic is presented that makes or breaks the story. And when they put ALL that in a CSI story in one episode, they will have jumped the shark and it's time to end the series.
Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM

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