Debate and Discussion

Comics with 'risky' subject matter-- A No-No to you?
Hawk at 3:09PM, Feb. 22, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,760
joined: 1-2-2006
mapaghimagsik
From what you've written it sounds like sexuality in general is risky, which for young kids, I'd be inclined to agree.

At the same time, kids comics have infatuations, which don't necessarily become sexually explicit.

Yeah, and that's the interesting thing. An infatuation that is handled lightly enough to be kid-friendly can actually appear to be “friendship” or “admiration”. It makes you wonder where the point is in a kid's mind where they start to connect what “love” is where it can possibly lead to.

nobody says THAT attraction has to address sex.

I believe I talked about that already.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
mapaghimagsik at 3:39PM, Feb. 22, 2008
(offline)
posts: 711
joined: 9-8-2006
Hawk
mapaghimagsik
From what you've written it sounds like sexuality in general is risky, which for young kids, I'd be inclined to agree.

At the same time, kids comics have infatuations, which don't necessarily become sexually explicit.

Yeah, and that's the interesting thing. An infatuation that is handled lightly enough to be kid-friendly can actually appear to be “friendship” or “admiration”. It makes you wonder where the point is in a kid's mind where they start to connect what “love” is where it can possibly lead to.

A lot of that is socialization – at least before puberty. As much as either side would like to say its hard coded or its social conditioning, no study points to one or the other, and no study refutes one or the other. My gut tells me its more physical than social conditioning, but that social conditioning plays a part.

That, and I don't know where crushes fit in. I had crushes before I new about the whole sex thing. I don't know if that was conditioning (I still remember the card game where young girls play by collecting boyfriend cards – harmless pasttime for girls, or prep for trollops in training? You decide!)

I'm probably missing some context, but I see some folks are using Avatar as an example of the non-sexualized relationships, which isn't quite true because all the prep work has been laid down, and hearts are racing, sweatdrops are forming, and the kids are snogging!

Somehow, I don't think we'd be having the same conversations if Ang and Zuko started snogging. Although the deadpan blink blink from much of the audience (with roughly 10% of the population saying ‘woot!’) would be worth it :D


I did want to add something quick though – I don't think every show *has* to hit on the issue. There's a BBC show called Torchwood that hit the subject full on. For friends of mine, after the initial “woah!” was past, it became like any other relationship in the series (complete with the one friend who wants “less snogging, more kicking alien ass”, to which I'm pretty much in agreement)

Okay, just one more thing, and then I'll stop– really, at least for this post. But so much of Avatar is about these kids growing up, and having deep emotional attachments (if only so they can have brutal fights, or those awkwardly tense moments, and the inevitable love cruelly torn away) that it wouldn't kill them to have a male character who had a romantic charge toward another male character. But there's so many other things that are just so enjoyable and fun about the series that I don't think the lack is a deep fault.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
freefall_drift at 1:11PM, Feb. 23, 2008
(online)
posts: 260
joined: 6-19-2007
mapaghimagsik
Somehow, I don't think we'd be having the same conversations if Ang and Zuko started snogging. Although the deadpan blink blink from much of the audience (with roughly 10% of the population saying ‘woot!’) would be worth it :D
I'd give good money to see that!
I used The Last Avatar, cause it's the only cartoon I could think of that is based for kids(ish) with a minimal story line of who-likes-who. I could have used bugs bunny but he was always cross dressing. The sprouts channel stuff is even less sexual so it didn't cross my mind. Sponge Bob is too weird. I guess I could have referenced Jimmy Neutron, but the idea of Jimmy and Shane or Carl snogging is disturbing.

Back to the topic. I think the type of story defines the level of “risky” story lines. A story about alcoholism and gore is just not apply in a Dilbert cartoon or the Bearinsteen bears or Sagwa. But some of the “risky” story lines could work in Batman or Purgatory Tower or Nadya.
I don't think it's self censorship to not cover those topics as much as using story plot elements that fit with the characters and the theme.
Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
freefall_drift at 1:17PM, Feb. 23, 2008
(online)
posts: 260
joined: 6-19-2007
Snogging, I had to go look up and go off topic…..
according to Wikipedia.

French kiss
(Redirected from Snogging)
A French kiss, tongue kiss, pash, snog or deep kiss is a passionate romantic or sexual kiss in which one participant's tongue touches the other's tongue (or lips) and usually enters his/her mouth.

Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
HalJones at 3:59PM, March 25, 2008
(online)
posts: 46
joined: 10-30-2007
French kissing aside, there seems to be any number of things which could be termed as “offensive”, if that is a good synonym for “risky”. Personally, I don't see any subject that can't be handled if approached right, and for the right audience. I think sometimes people judge too quickly. But other times, it's all about the way a subject is handled. Now, I despise pedophilia, though I know it exists, and I know how it is used. In a near future Beyond Human chapter, there is a scene in which pedophilia takes place, but the subject is implied rather than shown, and none of the act is shown at all. But it happens because the characters involved are sick squats who actually consider themselves something great. But the reader gets to know what they are, right out front, because that's who they are and that's one thing they do. These are definitely the “bad guys” in the story, but it will, unfortunately, probably offend many people, just as, apparently, my last chapter dealing with a prophecy did. But we'll see. It remains, though, that material targeted specifically at children should be designed and written for them. If something is for a mature audience, it should be labeled as such. If including such material is risky, then that is the risk the author takes in telling their story.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
Aurora Borealis at 9:12PM, March 29, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,289
joined: 3-2-2008
Among my never written stories there sits an idea that I had years ago. Basically the concept was to have as a main character a woman who regressed her body genetically to a state of a ten year old to work as a child prostitute. And basically that's where the idea finished as I wasn't sure where I wanted to take the idea (other than making it some sick porn story which I wasn't interested in doing at all) so until now the idea is still unused. I might return to it and for example focus on how her job affects her life (looking like a child she'd be treated like one, despite being somewhere in the 20-30 age), perhaps on how the age regression wreaks havoc on her organism (that or various implants as the story was going to be cyberpunkish). I wouldn't show any sex at all, perhaps imply it but nothing graphic… I mean, it would be obviously implied from the narration/dialogues considering her profession.

Actually I could give examples of everything mentioned in this thread being done in comics already. But that'd be rather spoiler heavy so I'll skip it :D
The fact is, it's all been done. Sometimes successfuly, sometimes not.



How about stories that mess with religion? Not in the “atheism” sense, but let's say reversing the christian mythos and making for example lucifer the underdog guardian of humanity fighting with the heaven's opression? :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:08AM
HalJones at 11:47AM, March 31, 2008
(online)
posts: 46
joined: 10-30-2007
It's always been my belief that ANY subject, if it is integral to a story, can be handled in such a way that it is as unoffensive as possible. But in the same breath, I recognize that some people are going to be offended no matter what, so, really, it depends on the author's intent as to whether or not a subject can fly in a particular story.

The Bible, for instance, deals with almost all of those subjects in one way or another and people still make it arguably the most read book of all time. But this is not to say such subjects should arbitrarily be injected into stories. The author must seriously weigh the risks versus the value of the presence of a scene in the story.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
NikiPaprika at 4:04PM, April 3, 2008
(online)
posts: 37
joined: 3-10-2007
Ah. This was actually discussed with my best friend the other day.
You see, I'm quite fond of a certain comic on this site. It was the art that drew me to it first. The style was so twisted and dark, so I knew this wasn't gonna be a comic filled with rainbows and lollipops. In fact, it goes into self mutilation and a rape of a child.
Now, what I found weird (and had to consult my friend about) if it was normal to still casually read this comic. Usually something that involves a child sexually would put me off ANYTHING. I personally think ANYTHING like that which involves a child is sick and the people who do so are mentally wrong and should be put into a mental institution. However, I know that is very harsh and cruel to say, because that is how people used to feel about homosexuality. However, JUST reaching the legal age to consent to sex but now aware of these dangerous things going on in the world, that is probably why I cannot stand it. I know i know, sorry skullbie, I know you said to drop it, but I think I'm on my soap box now n_n
When i hear stories of child molestation and such, it makes my tummy churn. I feel sick just imagining it. It must REALLY fuck with your mind. I have been fortunate enough NEVER to have witnessed nor experienced it, but I tend to think things through graphically with a wild imagination.
However, I feel love between two older people who just happen to have QUITE an age gap between each other is still perfectly okay. It IS legal, and I actually know of a couple that are happily together, despite an 11-year age gap between them. but what I mean is it is perfectly okay for two legally consenting adults (they were 33 and 44 when they agreed to be together :'D ) than it is for a younger child who is DEFINITELY not of age (like 11 and 22).
Another reason why I find it so wrong is the body isn't even fully developed. I mean, I know there are teenagers doing it underage, but they couldn't be doing it if they weren't sexually able. So people who are aroused by the thought of undeveloped bodies are sick, and it IS ACTUALLY unnatural since puberty involves a lot of hormones which kick sex drives into gear, whereas someone who hasn't reach puberty does not give off any kind of hormonal tones at all.
Guh. I think my soap box is begining to crush under the weight of too many words and ramblings. okay okay, I'll back down on this now and get more to the point. n_n; I'm so so sorry. T_T

However, depending on the way it is represented is a different story. a good example is south park, which I totally adore, but goes into REALLY risky subjects but you can't help but laugh out loud everytime you watch. Especially the episode when Cartman fakes Tourettes. That has a LOT of risky issues within that episode itself, but I always seem to end up on the floor laughing so hard my spleen flies out of me! And like in this certain comic, I had already prepared myself for the worst, since I knew it was going to be a twisted, creepy plot to it. That is what makes it interesting, however.
And like in a future comic me and my best friend hope to develop sometime, there is going to be gore: and lots of it. The strangest thing about it is we aren't even fans of gorefest movies. however, it is because the comic is all about dark desires in which someone chooses to fulfill while others would usually keep it to themselves.
But I even said to the writer I was going to draw the line at child molestation. I don't mind some random 17-ear old emo lookin' guy being raped by a werewolf, but grown men putting their hands down a child's trousers is sick and wrong. XD kinda odd, i know. :'D

Most subjects I usually only take as how the writer predicts the audience will react to it. If it's meant to be funny, I'll laugh, if it's sad, I'll cry. Most risky issues don't bother me, though. I usually don't have strong opinions. XD note well, USUALLY. I am so sorry for the rant and the UBER long post. But I feel comfortable in expressing my ideas to the fullest. o3o
p.s. at least this gives you something to read if you are INSANELY bored. >_>
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:17PM
patrickdevine at 12:50PM, April 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 759
joined: 4-26-2007
Skullbie
Alright I'm going to combine all of these into a story right now, for the lulz, and to see if i can make it good:
Karen is a girl who lives with her older sister after their parents were found brutally maimed. The bond karen has with her sister is questionable, but all that changes when karens sister is murdured-in the same way her parents were.
Karen sets out on a self-destructive path to find the culprit, and finds not all is what they seem with the local church-they are after her now, because of a special unknown power she has that is activated by slicing her flesh.
She gets into even deeper trouble when she finds the resident priest in pedophilic relations with the alter boys- 8 days later the boy turns up, brutally murdered like karens sister.
But with the help of a forever drunken cop, a turkey sandwich, an escaped rape victim of the church, and another with her power Karen is determined to put an end to it-


Well that was interesting, I don't really care for dark stories though. lol!

What's the turkey sandwich for?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:41PM
shadowmagi at 10:08PM, April 18, 2008
(offline)
posts: 99
joined: 12-13-2006
patrickdevine
Skullbie
Alright I'm going to combine all of these into a story right now, for the lulz, and to see if i can make it good:
Karen is a girl who lives with her older sister after their parents were found brutally maimed. The bond karen has with her sister is questionable, but all that changes when karens sister is murdured-in the same way her parents were.
Karen sets out on a self-destructive path to find the culprit, and finds not all is what they seem with the local church-they are after her now, because of a special unknown power she has that is activated by slicing her flesh.
She gets into even deeper trouble when she finds the resident priest in pedophilic relations with the alter boys- 8 days later the boy turns up, brutally murdered like karens sister.
But with the help of a forever drunken cop, a turkey sandwich, an escaped rape victim of the church, and another with her power Karen is determined to put an end to it-


Well that was interesting, I don't really care for dark stories though. lol!
What's the turkey sandwich for?


well for when they get hungry, of course.

*Psst*
….
(i like feedback~!)
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:32PM

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved