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Communicating with aliens is very hazardous to your health...
Lonnehart at 1:19AM, May 21, 2011
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Yes, yes… A lot of you want to go to outer space and start friendly relations with any aliens we meet. But why shouldn't we? Well… because of this…

Youtube Video: I Want To Eat Your Face (Song taken from Naked Space)

Yeah… and afterwards that British scientist tries to be friends… and ends up living up to that song.

So who agrees with me if I say we “greet” any alien visitors to earth by firing a really huge gun at them? :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:39PM
bravo1102 at 2:47AM, May 25, 2011
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Rather than a bunch of clueless comic actors in blue jumpsuits I vote for surrounding the singing alien with Navy SEALs or Marine Force Recon.

I mean what would have been the reaction if the alien had sung “Sit on my Face”?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxVKtNkQAtw&feature=fvwrel
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:34AM
Dave7 at 7:37AM, May 25, 2011
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Actually, if aliens show up here, in our solar system, before we get beyond that, scientists predict that will place their technology at least 5,000 years ahead of whatever we have right now. So, aiming a gun at them would be akin to suicide; don't think lasers vs. machine guns, think nuclear weapons vs. sponges.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:09PM
Product Placement at 12:38PM, May 25, 2011
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Dave7
5,000 years ahead of whatever we have right now.
That seems a tad much, don't you think? I mean, think about how far we've gone in the past couple of hundred years alone. Technological innovation has also been speeding up, thanks to faster and more easily available computers along with improved communication technology which makes sharing of new ideas more efficient (I mean, right now we're having a conversation overseas). We only just started blasting ourselves into space 50 years ago. Who knows what we have thought about doing up there in 50 more years. Or the next 100.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:53PM
ozoneocean at 12:38AM, May 26, 2011
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Dave7
5,000 years ahead of whatever we have right now.
That seems a tad much, don't you think?
Not compared to beings that could cross the gulf of space to reach us PP.
Our only way to do that would be multimillion dollar “generation” ships (families having kids, living and dying in flight), with massive stores of fuel. It'd be a one way trip to an uncertain destination too- no coming back no choice of different end points…

So intelligent life that could make it here without that huge investment of resources and lives would be way ahead of us.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
Product Placement at 1:47AM, May 26, 2011
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ozoneocean
So intelligent life that could make it here without that huge investment of resources and lives would be way ahead of us.
Way ahead of us, yes, I'm not denying that. But slapping a number on how advanced sounds arbitrary. If you were a 16th century farmer and met someone who was talking to a person via camera feed on a smartphone, how far advanced would you consider that person to be? 6000 years? I mean, for all we know, next year, some crazy scientist might accidentally stumble upon the means to ignore gravitational pull (not bloody likely, I'll admit). That alone would result in such drastic changes to… well… everything. Suddenly, we would be able to haul tons of materials to space at fraction of the cost today. Space exploration would become profitable and we'd start seeing pioneers going to mars. How much further advanced would you consider that society? 1000 years?

What's to say that in 200 years we won't discover the means to bend space and form wormholes? Sure that sounds way out there but 200 years ago having the means to destroy an entire city with a single bomb, instantly communicate with someone oversees through a pocket device and then fly over to meet that said person in the same day would have sounded way out there.

All I'm saying is that there's no way of knowing how fast we're going to advance technologically, in the next 1000 years. We might suffer a technological dark age or blow ourselves up in a massive war or maybe we'll fuse ourselves with computers and/or find means for immortality. Hell, there's a guy out there who thinks we're going to do that computer merger thing in under 30 years.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:53PM
bravo1102 at 2:41AM, May 26, 2011
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Why on one hand we say that we can't begin to understand an alien lifeform because of how different evolution could be on another planet and yet on the other insist their technology has to develop at the same rate and in the same way as ours?

Technological development is just as tenuous as the path of evolution led to humans on this planet.

Something as elemental as gunpowder may not be necessary to develop interstellar drive. They may have never thought of using lasers as weapons and only use them to instigate their gravitational mass drivers which again they never thought of using as weapons but only as propulsion systems. Archmedes had all the parts to make a steam engine yet he never thought of building a pump or locomotive.

They could have interstellar drive, nuclear whips and microfiliment blades and no conception of any weapon that throws missiles. Or maybe they've developed to the point where all weapons are useless because they can bend space and time at will or even more simply just bend our minds at will. That is why on one level stories of alien abduction are so tantalyzing. These aliens supposedly can do anything because they can twist our perception and thought processes as simply as we turn on a lamp. Or conversely every ship they fly crashes into the New Mexico desert, we've already met them and developed appropriate weapons wielded by guys in black suits and sunglasses.

Clarke's axiom: Any sufficently developed technology will be indistinguishable from magic.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:34AM
Product Placement at 7:26PM, May 26, 2011
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Bravo. Your last comment made me think about a short story called “The Road Not Taken” by Harry Turtledove. It's about the idea that gravity manipulation is such a absurdly simple concept that most alien races stumble upon it by sheer accident, usually as early as what would be equivalent to our bronze age. However, the nature of this technology is so bizarre that nobody seems to able to come up with a good scientific explanation regarding how it works.

Due to how easy it is to accidentally discover it, and how cheap it is to replicate it, most races begin utilizing it as their preferred means of transport and even go as far as space exploration the moment they've figured out how to make airtight vehicles. Just to empathize how simplistic this technology is supposed to be, you don't even need electricity to power it.

Now, thanks to how this technology seems to break every law from the theory of relativity to thermodynamics it helps blind the aliens who discover it from pursuing alternative research paths. The few races who don't discover this technology have a much greater potential to pursue those alternative paths but since there are so many aliens flying around it space already, they get invaded relatively early during their development.

But then we had Earth. Since it's kinda located out of everyone's way (the edge of one of the spiral arms of our galaxy), nobody noticed it until a race called the Roxolani spot it, during a “search for conquest opportunity” mission. The first thing they do is to scan the solar system for gravity manipulation, since they consider it to be the highest form of technology and when no such signs can be found, they figure that Earth is ripe for the taking.

That is of course until they land and start attacking us with flintlock weaponry…
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:53PM
ozoneocean at 9:20PM, May 26, 2011
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One of the hallmarks of evolution of life on this planet is competition and conflict between species. The tendency to develop weapons for war and constantly improve upon them is part of our evolutionary model.

I'd imagine that any other species that came from a competitive origin would probably delve heavily into weapon development.
Things like missile weapons and simple hand held shock weapons (swords, clubs) are pretty fundamental, basic concepts and would be improved upon :)

Of course it's likely that any intelligent life that makes it here would be completely peaceful and non-violent, but that's not really the thrust of Lonne's light hearted post.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
bravo1102 at 1:09PM, May 27, 2011
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Bravo. Your last comment made me think about a short story called “The Road Not Taken” by Harry Turtledove. It's about the idea that gravity manipulation is such a absurdly simple concept that most alien races stumble upon it by sheer accident, That is of course until they land and start attacking us with flintlock weaponry…

That was the story I was thinking of too. The poor little guys form squares and we have tanks and stealth fighters. I love Harry Turtledove. Most of his 20th Century novels have tankers as main characters. Gotta love that.

I trust his research a lot. He actually meantioned the inconvienent stowage position of the jack on early Panther tanks in one of his novels. Something the character in question would know but few authors would unless they bothered to do some pretty deep research and thinking.



We only assume that competition would be the same with tools and weapons because that is what humans had to do. It's easy to imagine another species that wouldn't need to develop those weapons in the same way that not all human cultures developed any missile throwers beyond throwing stuff or any hand weapon past the club and spear. Sometimes that's all you need. ;)

How long was the crossbow or the rifled firearm around before someone decided to use it in the army? Both were purely hunting weapons for centuries and not considered practical on the battlefield. They could have remained that way indefinitely. And of course the species could have interstellar drive long before they develop the breechloader.

An alien culture could have simply forgotten that technology for some reason like samurai forgot gunpowder during the Shogunate. Think China versus Europe in the 16th Century. China had no competition so weapons development stagnated. But there was intense competition in the Americas and yet no weapons development like in Europe. Then there's the case of subSaharan Africa and the ancient world and so on. Outside of Europe the case of intense competition yielding great continuous and permanent innovation on the battlefield isn't proven, in fact it nearly doesn't exist. It's a case of one small change =revolution =dominance till the next tiny change that could be a century in the future. Or that dominance is never overcome and there is stasis.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:34AM
Lonnehart at 3:05PM, May 27, 2011
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Whatever their tech, what matters is how they'll treat you… with or without it. After all, when an alien sings about having you for dinner (in the context that you'll be providing it with nurishment) you really should shoot him right then and there.

Some aliens know how we may react if we find out what their reasons for contacting us are, so they'll try to decieve us. Case in point…

Youtube Video: Twighlight Zone- “To Serve Man”

I mean… the bigger or more advanced beings will see us as an entree when they discover us, I bet… All they need do is wait for us to fatten ourselves up and THEN come over to Earth to have us over for supper…

We should be proactive and serve them instead… over a hot grill covered in BBQ sauce. :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:39PM
ozoneocean at 4:45AM, May 31, 2011
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bravo1102
We only assume that competition would be the same with tools and weapons because that is what humans had to do…
You invalidate your entire thrust Bravo. The countries that had great periods of technological development were ones that were interacting most with alien cultures (in the traditional sense), it's as simple as that. Most of the time that interaction resulted in conflict, but all the time ideas where being transferred and improved upon. When cultures became too dominant or isolated, the transferral of ideas and innovation slowed.
But throughout all, the innovation, transferral, invention and conflict was ALWAYS happening somewhere, even though the nexus changed and shifted.
Your error is to see humanity only as being made up of smaller parts and extrapolating from each at different points in time. Things don't work that way, we're not actually a collection of instances, that's just a historical way of looking back at things. What you see now, with our current level of tech development is the culmination of all humanity- the same shifting nexus of competition gave us all amazing weapons as well as rockets and computers and cell phones.
The 1800's Iroquois, Sub-Saharan African tribes, and Sung Dynasty China didn't develop rifles, but someone did, somewhere, and that idea got transferred around and back again along with all the rest.

-You're right in that battlefields are not required for tech innovation, they're just a symptom of the process that causes most speedy innovation: competing and mixing cultures.

The thing is, a culture with advanced space travel would've in all probability (something like 99.99999999% r) passed through most of what we consider as technological milestones in their own way in order to get there, unless they LUCK into it. It's more complicated to work out a way for them to be technologically backward.
————————–

ANYway, Lonnehart- with reference to the arguments of both Bravo and mine, which actually compliment one another:
-If the alien civilisation has become one dominant homogeneous group, then it will be peaceful and self contained. Given the “distance between snacks”, it's highly doubtful any space-faring civilisation would be cruising for eats. they'd only be interested in us for curiosity.

-If the alien civilisation is one of many or part of a heterogeneous group (competing states, of the same culture), then they could be peaceful and curious or warring and avaricious.

I'd say the former scenario is more likely (peaceful, singular group). And I'd also reason that even though they wouldn't be out for war they'd still be wary and more than equipped to handle anything we could throw at them.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
bravo1102 at 6:16AM, May 31, 2011
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What if the aliens stop their worldwide competion before they come to 21st Century technology? See the Worldwar series by Harry Turtledove. The competition could have resolved itself at the iron age or the aliens could have so forgotten war after so many millenia of peaceful cooperation that all their weapons are in museums or only exist as holographs.

In which case they come out with their cookbook, wielding cooking utensils and ceremonial hunting crossbows and we have M4 rifles and tanks. I should hand this one off to a friend of mine. He knows the SF genre much better than I do and has bombarded me with dozens of very plausible examples of this scenario in fiction.

They could have had a world wide empire since their equivelent of the 1990's like in Turtledove's Worldwar series. They never needed or developed anything more advanced than an M1 tank and a nuclear weapon. And if they did land in the middle of World War II? A Panther or JS-2 can take down an M1 and an F-15 would have problems dealing with a swarm of P-51s. Enough of that. I've come up a fistful of fiction ideas out of this discussion. The idea of the cooking utensil wielding aliens with ceremonial crossbows just sticks in my head.



The same could take place when the singing and dancing aliens come out doing “Sit on my face” Maybe they want to eat us in another manner than as food… Aliens that want humans for oral sex.

Brings up another SF scenario where Earth is a primitive planet that still has females and the rest of the galaxy is horny. ALiens are all hermaphraditic test-tube baby types and they discover sex… and before you know it they're humping everything in sight. Been done to death in porn.

They misinterpreted the whole concept of human sex at first with the anal probes but the development of the abduction phenomenon indicates they've gotten the hang of it now.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:34AM
ozoneocean at 7:53AM, May 31, 2011
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bravo1102
What if the aliens stop their worldwide competion before they come to 21st Century technology? See the Worldwar series by Harry Turtledove. The competition could have resolved itself at the iron age or the aliens could have so forgotten war after so many millenia of peaceful cooperation that all their weapons are in museums or only exist as holographs.
In which case they'd be very unlikely to get very far very fast and probably stay in the iron age, the age or whatever they would have that was equivalent. And good for them.
But Space travel would probably be ours first.

But even if just with a peaceful world federation or whatever, if they still managed to have a vibrant culture with a fast, free flowing of new ideas and innovation within it that managed to lead them all the way to advanced mastery of the principals of physics and eventual long distance space travel, even without a morbid history and current fascination with warfare they still understand all that's required for interstellar travel and they're still inventive enough to achieve it.
They're not going to have any trouble comprehending simple earth weapons like nuclear missiles or even lasers and such and knowing how to counter them and probably finding them rather funny.

…but then of course that leads to good old The Day The Earth Stood Still, The Boy with Green Hair or even Plan Nine From Outer Space…

—————

One thing people don't normally think about too much is scale. Most of the time aliens aren't just humans with funny faces, but human scale as well. We rarely see “intelligent” races of creatures much smaller or much larger except for shock or comedic purposes. You get lots of one off big monsters like Mothra or those behemoths in Starwars or whatever, but imagine an entire race of those beasties… o_O

I suppose the Zentradi in Macros/Robotech worked a bit with the scale thing, for human aliens… in order to justify those cool transforming fighter jets. ^_^
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
Lonnehart at 6:33PM, May 31, 2011
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ozoneocean
I suppose the Zentradi in Macros/Robotech worked a bit with the scale thing, for human aliens… in order to justify those cool transforming fighter jets. ^_^

That didn't exactly justify why the SDF-1 space gunship had to transform into a humanoid form in order to fire its main gun…

So… what do we do if we find out that we're only being visited by aliens who seek to “harvest” us because we're a very rare ingredient for one of their famous recipes being served in a famous intergalactic restaraunt? Kinda like some of the endangered species here on Earth? Such as the giant fruitbats who are being poached because they're very tasty… even though they're endangered? :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:39PM
bravo1102 at 12:18AM, June 1, 2011
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Lonnehart
[
So… what do we do if we find out that we're only being visited by aliens who seek to “harvest” us because we're a very rare ingredient for one of their famous recipes being served in a famous intergalactic restaraunt? Kinda like some of the endangered species here on Earth? Such as the giant fruitbats who are being poached because they're very tasty… even though they're endangered? :)

Peter Jackson answered that question in his movie Bad Taste Send in “the Boys”.

Or we could believe that the government has had an agreement with the aliens to harvest select humans since Eisenhower met them in the 1950's. Now they only need to get fresh genetic material periodically to grow the hybrids which are delicacies to these cannibalistic carnivores.
So we end up with never ending abductions to collect this genetic material from certain genetic lines which have proven the tastiest. One never knows maybe most human meat is nasty and only some selected genetic lines taste good. Prime Angus beef as opposed to that mangy skeletal cow in the field over there.
Maybe the rest of us have some kind of infection in our flesh that makes us indigestable unless the aliens are really desperate. So they disappear the occasional person. The rest of the time they harvest the genetic material and grow their hybrids.

When you can't fight them, as Crapgame said in Kelly's Heroes “Make a deal”
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:34AM
ozoneocean at 3:33AM, June 5, 2011
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Although, if you wanna be boring (like I always do), there's very little chance of us being any good in recipes- just think about all the plants and fungi and things that are completely inedible, and those are all related to us genetically (distantly) and have the same sorts of mineral compositions etc because we're all from the same planet and the same evolution stream and all that.

For you average alien, eating life on earth would probably be fatal, or really nasty for them at the very least.

…maybe they'd get lucky though, maybe humans would have narcotic properties? “Hey Gargleblat, you tried any of them magic man-rooms? Wow, they're trippy!”
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
Genejoke at 10:51AM, June 5, 2011
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Someone
…maybe they'd get lucky though, maybe humans would have narcotic properties? “Hey Gargleblat, you tried any of them magic man-rooms? Wow, they're trippy!”

that would spell our doom even quickly, we could be like man-crack for martians.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
Lonnehart at 1:41PM, June 5, 2011
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ozoneocean
…maybe they'd get lucky though, maybe humans would have narcotic properties? “Hey Gargleblat, you tried any of them magic man-rooms? Wow, they're trippy!”

Um…

Youtube Video: “I Come In Peace”

Yep… some aliens have already tried this. Some “narcotics” are too dangerous to obtain… :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:39PM
bravo1102 at 1:25AM, June 6, 2011
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Lonnehart
Um…

Youtube Video: “I Come In Peace”

Yep… some aliens have already tried this. Some “narcotics” are too dangerous to obtain… :)

Now that looks like my kind of movie.

When you go blowing everything up just to get some endorphins, little wasteful when he could have just landed in Area 51 and made a deal for prime two legged mutton.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:34AM

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