Debate and Discussion

Conservative or Liberal?
lothar at 3:02AM, May 12, 2007
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ozoneocean
….The idea seems to be of a caricature of political positions… Like they were evil cartoon gangs or something that all run around wearing their team shirts and waving their team flags, screaming abuse at one another.

hahahah ! sometimes that's what it looks like .
in regards to US politics , both parties are beholden to big money and not realy about the good of the citizens ! All this “social issue” bullshit is just smoke and mirrors to keep you distracted while they suck you dry
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Roseweave at 1:12PM, July 1, 2007
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I don't like people who think “Labels” are bad or taking the center in everything.

Con Vs. Liberal don't mean quite what they used too perhaps, but they describe sides of issues that very often are bi-polarised.

I'm not fond of Centrism because of it's presumption that when two groups of people fight over something, the answer must lie in between. This is known as the Middle Ground fallacy.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
Vindibudd at 3:10PM, July 1, 2007
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DancingChaos
Are you either more conservative or liberal?

I'm a classical liberal. Have fun with that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
blntmaker at 5:35PM, July 1, 2007
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I'm liberal but I'm quite moderate. I stand in the middle quite a bit as a moderate and find that political issues have more nebulous areas than we care to discuss.

Now, my parents? The ones who grew up in the south during the Civil Rights era? Participated in the movement and felt more love from Democrats than Republicans? You couldn't turn them away from their party - ALWAYS vote Democrat. That's how it was back in the day - you were either one or the other…black and white issues.

It's new day though…I agree with subcultured - we no longer have defined political stances.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:26AM
Llama_Comic at 7:54PM, July 1, 2007
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Socially liberal, economically moderate.

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
TnTComic at 5:58AM, July 2, 2007
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Roseweave
I don't like people who think “Labels” are bad or taking the center in everything.

Con Vs. Liberal don't mean quite what they used too perhaps, but they describe sides of issues that very often are bi-polarised.

I'm not fond of Centrism because of it's presumption that when two groups of people fight over something, the answer must lie in between. This is known as the Middle Ground fallacy.

I'm not fond of people who think one label can completely describe them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
StaceyMontgomery at 11:46AM, July 2, 2007
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I like labels myself - the more the better. One data point makes for a terrible graph.

But as for Liberal vs conservative… I don't know. I have opinions that are considered “far left” (rights and freedoms for queer people of all kinds, for instance) and that might be considered “far right” (I can pretty libertarian on a lot of things) and even “Deep center” (Im a huge fan of the US Constitution and some very old fashioned values - like habeas Corpus).

Because Im “all over the map” I get called a Centrist - but I don't think that's right at all.

I fear that whatever my political leanings are called, there just aren't enough people like me - I never seem to have anyone to vote for.

but then again, a lot of Americans never vote - so maybe its not that people like me don't exist - maybe we're just not well served.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Roseweave at 3:37PM, July 2, 2007
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TnTComic
Roseweave
I don't like people who think “Labels” are bad or taking the center in everything.

Con Vs. Liberal don't mean quite what they used too perhaps, but they describe sides of issues that very often are bi-polarised.

I'm not fond of Centrism because of it's presumption that when two groups of people fight over something, the answer must lie in between. This is known as the Middle Ground fallacy.

I'm not fond of people who think one label can completely describe them.

Without labels, you can't describe anything.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
TnTComic at 3:51AM, July 3, 2007
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Roseweave
TnTComic
I'm not fond of people who think one label can completely describe them.

Without labels, you can't describe anything.

Yes, thank you for that. Now please explain what that has to do with what I said.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Vindibudd at 2:47PM, July 4, 2007
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Marine, I think you could quite possibly be the actual ubermensch.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
Aurora Moon at 2:52PM, July 4, 2007
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Vindibudd
Marine, I think you could quite possibly be the actual ubermensch.

lol, maybe.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
TnTComic at 1:04PM, July 5, 2007
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marine
lots of shit

Look up what Conservative and Liberal mean before you write your book. You're as conservative as they come.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
marine at 3:18PM, July 5, 2007
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TnTComic
marine
lots of shit
bullshit

If you say so.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
Rori at 4:06PM, July 5, 2007
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Vindibudd
I'm a classical liberal. Have fun with that.

Who couldn't! You guys throw the best parties–or should

Anyhow, I'm, overall, a social liberal. I say this because of what I want my government to be and do, not because of my personality :)

People will probably boo me, but I think what this country needs are more (valid!) political parties. Two just can't hold all our issues.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:11PM
dueeast at 4:09PM, July 5, 2007
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I consider myself more conservative socially and economically. I definitely don't fit the stereotypes assigned to most conservatives, though. And I don't defend politicians who have abused public trust. I'm not a blind conservative, you might say. I'm very skeptical of all politicians currently. Some would call me libertarian on some issues, but I don't consider myself a full fledged libertarian, either.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:17PM
TnTComic at 9:19AM, July 6, 2007
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marine
I'm both.

I'm liberal, because I don't care. People can do what they want, as long as they don't fuck with me. I don't care. Gay, straight, mexcian, had abortions, mentally retarded, I don't care what you are, just do what you do and piss off away from me. I don't care about using foul language or religion, so thats liberal right?

No.

marine
I mean really, I'm such an explosive and accepting personality. I'm for the envrioment sure, do whatever it takes to fix it, but really I don't care. I like to play violent video games. Conservatives tried to ban Mortal Kombat when I was younger, and that always made me pissed off. More so than that, they tried to ban Night Trap (a terrible cartoonishly non-violent game) and more or less succeded. If you're not liberal, you can't take in new experiences at all. You've got live inside your big conservative cave and yell out at the kids playing on their skateboards. I'll try out playing on a skateboard to see if I like it. I mostly don't, but I'll still give it a shot. I like movies with crazy plots, for exampel, a big angry half vampire/half black has to kill other vampires with a sword. Thats a cool premise to me. Anything where theres horror involved and chainsawas with blood gushing and trees raping women. Conservatives would allow that movie, but toned down to the point where its so droll and boring and ‘PG-13’, that theres no point in having it around. Its sort of like comparing the tv-edit of Army of Darkness to an uncut version of Evil Dead 2. I'm a man, I like manly stuff. Manly to me is explosions and chainsaws. I like being funny and different from everybody else too. I'm a uniuqe snowflake, I am special. I'm great, and everybody has their place in the sun.

These things are not conservative or liberal issues.

marine
I'm conservative, because I take shit serious.

Implying that liberals don't?


marine
People can't go around doing whatever they want. This isn't Vietnam, there are fucking rules. You've gotta have some law & order going on, or else you fall into Anarchy.

Again, you think liberals don't believe in law & order?


marine
I'm almost positive that within twenty years, liberals will try and pass a bill making it legal to fuck animals. I just have a feeling about it, and thats the old man in me talking, he's conseravitve.

Didn't you just say you don't care?


marine
He likes stuff that isn't offensive and can be enjoyed by everybody. Sure he might watch a movie were Arnold Schwarzenegger kllls terrorists late at night on cable after the kids are in bed and theres no chance anyone could see it, but thats it.

Violence is offensive to some people.


marine
He's all for guns too. He thinks that as Americans, we need to have an armed forces capable of taking out mars (the planet or god of war) if we thought they had certain weapons. Its just how I feel. I think we should wage war as much as possible. Anyone who so much as suggests they don't like us, needs to get it hard and fast.

Sounds like Al Queda talk to me.


marine
I don't so much like rebuilding nations we destroyed. What kind of backwards tactic is that?

You have to destroy an entrenched enemy army. Once its gone, you help the people you liberated. Its called winning the hearts and minds.

marine
I'm also for the “war on” series of things, drugs, aids, cancer, terror, or anything we tend to not like that year.

I thought you didn't care.


marine
I really just want to be a faceless member of society. Someone who just exists as “that funny guy”, or even just “that one guy”, I watch Bill O'riley every night I catch it on, I read his books, and I agree with certain things he says.

Big surprise.

marine
I support reform but want things to say the same.

Way to go.

marine
How do I exist in such a world of confusion when I understand everything so perfectly?

Yeah.


marine
This is the world I live in everyday. Rarely can I ever clearly figure out where I stand on issues, because theres such a gray area. Life's not hard, its always been pretty gray for me. I'm not a good guy or a bad guy. I'm not a hippy and I'm not a prick. I'm niether conservative or liberal. I'm not anything.

Okay. So you're pro war, pro gun, pro drug war, pro war on terror, pro violence in media, pro military, pro o'reilly, and pro “manly stuff”…

You're a dyed in the wool conservative and you got it from your dad. You're nowhere near the middle, as you claim. Embrace what you are duder.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Hawk at 9:40AM, July 6, 2007
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You can't ever tell when Marine is being serious and that's the problem. In fact, he may just be trying to pull your chain. But I guess if you read through that long diatribe it sounds like not even he knows what he is. And that's probably close to the truth. That's what happens when you're not sincere to anyone anymore.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
TnTComic at 9:48AM, July 6, 2007
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Hawk
But I guess if you read through that long diatribe it sounds like not even he knows what he is.

Yeah, that's definitely how it reads. And really, that's all too common these days. If I had to wager on it, i'd say 2004 was about the time that politics became mainstream. I don't remember a time when people were paying attention as much as they started doing then, and have continued doing to the present. Point being, there's alot of people who are new to it, and the things they hear and see make them think that they are something they are not. For example, Ron Paul is more in line with what Republicans are supposed to be about than most Republicans are, and they don't like what he has to say. Its pretty funny to me, and sad at the same time.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
marine at 3:17PM, July 6, 2007
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Who cares.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
GinckPress at 3:57PM, July 6, 2007
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Ron Paul 2008! The only honest candidate in the entire pre-presidential race, be they Republican or Democrat ( well, Obama seems honest, but even so, he just preaches the same bogus socialist promises that have been promulgated in the U.S. since the New Deal ).

To Vindibudd: Classical Liberalism = Modern Libertarianism. The socialists somehow managed to steal the word “liberal”.

To those of you who believe that we have to have an authoritarian entity telling us what we can and cannot do to maintain order and stability, I suggest you spend the next several days downloading and listening to the FREE .mp3 audio books listed on this page:

http://www.mises.org/media.aspx?action=category&ID=85

There's approximately 1 file per chapter.

Liberty Above All.
J.
www.planetaeruen.com
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:36PM
TnTComic at 12:19PM, July 7, 2007
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marine
Who cares.

Apparently you do, since you wrote several paragraphs on the subject, and subsequently deleted them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
marine at 5:29PM, July 7, 2007
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TnTComic
marine
Who cares.

Apparently you do, since you wrote several paragraphs on the subject, and subsequently deleted them.

I didn't, you've made up some rants that sound similar to things I might say.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
jmt at 9:21PM, July 9, 2007
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I am not sure if the argument about conservative or liberal has much to do with accepting homosexuality, or dress codes.

I mean if I look at hippies, I see a bunch of people adhering to a uniform. Not like a military uniform you know, but they all dress, and smell the same. I have spent enough time at college to know this.

The real gist of your post to me is about you teacher polarizing your class with misnomers and your limited worldview. Most conservatives don’t shun homosexuals; they just don’t think there should be marriages between them, because the whole point of marriage is to have a stable environment to raise a family. Now a days that is even on the table with gay adoption rights and whatnot. I have a problem here because I believe having a mom and a dad is way healthier than having two moms or two dads, but having two parents that love you is way healthier than an orphanage or group home. Your sexual preference should fall into the whole “pursuit of happiness” thing.

The true meaning of conservatism is being a constructionist in your view to the constitution. And not taking a liberal view of it and the power it suggests that the government has.

As far as politics go I am a registered independent with conservative leanings. But in my younger days I bounced all around the spectrum from communisim, to anarchist. But I found my home when I read Jefferson.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:09PM
jmt at 9:24PM, July 9, 2007
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And I have to give marine props, because even though he lacks a certain sensitivity to peoples feelings, i think he actually has a really good handle on most of the stuff he is saying.

jesus…i never thought I would say that.

no offense marine.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:09PM
TnTComic at 4:14AM, July 10, 2007
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jmt
i think he actually has a really good handle on most of the stuff he is saying

that's a joke right
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Roseweave at 9:04AM, July 16, 2007
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I mean if I look at hippies, I see a bunch of people adhering to a uniform. Not like a military uniform you know, but they all dress, and smell the same. I have spent enough time at college to know this.

Those aren't real hippies - students are immensely socially conservaive these days compared to what they used to be(more like revolutionaries). People who say that subcultures dress the same are talking BS, if you take a look at some real goth bands for instance, their dress style is many times more diverse than most people. Don't judge them by apathetic students and mall kiddies, true progressiveness does often beget the will to stand out visualy.

The true meaning of conservatism is being a constructionist in your view to the constitution. And not taking a liberal view of it and the power it suggests that the government has.

No, that's really not what conservativism is at all, unfortunately. Conservativism, in general, is keeping social norms, enforcing a more authoritarian view.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
TnTComic at 6:18PM, July 16, 2007
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Roseweave
The true meaning of conservatism is being a constructionist in your view to the constitution. And not taking a liberal view of it and the power it suggests that the government has.

No, that's really not what conservativism is at all, unfortunately. Conservativism, in general, is keeping social norms, enforcing a more authoritarian view.

You're discussing two different things. Capital C and little c.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Drifterxgs at 2:19PM, July 22, 2007
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I like to consider myself actually more of an in the middle kind of guy, Realizing that both sides need to work together to keep america at top shape. The partisan politicals of one side vs another kinda make me sick, when your job should be making all of us happy, they simply worry about making their own groups or small subgroups happy. Sometimes I feel that the slate needs to be wiped clean by a good old fashioned shakeup and new players set on the bench, even with a few radical ideas involved.
I like to vote for the guy in a party that does one half his way, and the other half his enemies.But thats me and I don't force my ideals on others with political name callling like conservative nazi or liberal pansy which I hear on npr all the time by pundit radio hosts.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:17PM
arteestx at 8:13PM, July 22, 2007
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At the risk of oversimplification, here's how I view the groupings politically…

Liberal: believes in less govt on individual choices (not directly affecting others) and more govt on businesses

Conservative: believes in more govt on individual choices and less govt on businesses

various individual choices: gay marriage, abortion, drug legalization, etc… liberals tend to want less regulation or restriction from the govt on these issues and conservatives want more

various business choices: environmental regs, health care, safety requirements, etc…. liberals tend to want more regulation or restriction from the govt on these issues and conservatives want less

Note that neither group is all or nothing; liberals dont want absolutely no restrictions on anything and conservatives dont want to micromanagely control everything. It's not that liberals think an individuals choice to murder or rape is ok any more than conservatives think a business should be able to import goods with no inspections.

And of course, people lean liberal or conservative on individual issues, not blanket groupings. After all, some liberals do want to restrict gay marriage and some conservatives think environmental regulations should be strengthened. So it's not as though one has to accept all tenets of liberalism or conservatism.

I'm sure some may argue my political definitions, and are probably right to do so. But this is how I tend to think about the groupss, as more of a general philosophy about when and how the govt should be used.

And I definitely lean much much more toward the liberal side.


P.S. libertarians are those who want no govt in anything, personal or business, and the facists are those who want govt over everything.

Xolta is not intended for anyone under 18 years old.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
freefall_drift at 9:01AM, July 24, 2007
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arteestx
At the risk of oversimplification, here's how I view the groupings politically…
Liberal: believes in less govt on individual choices (not directly affecting others) and more govt on businesses
Conservative: believes in more govt on individual choices and less govt on businesses
Wow arteestx, you nailed me. I posted this recently to a freind, on a discussion about my liberal/progressive ideas toward the economy.

I just want a government, when given a choice, would choose policies that promote small and local businesses over large monopolistic corporations.
I just want a government, when given a choice, would choose policies that support labor's ability to unionize, instead of the corporation ability to destroy unions.
I just want a government, when given a choice, would choose policies that promote ordinary people to be become wealthier.
I just want a government, when given a choice, would policies that allow a small group of very very rich people to become even richer.

Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM

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