Debate and Discussion

Conspiracy ???
lothar at 6:33AM, Oct. 9, 2008
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there is a lot of talk these days about Conspiracy theories. everybody has some opinion about these “conspiracy theories” sometimes it gets emotional and people get angry . it divides families ruins friendships and on occasion causes people to flip out and yell at inanimate objects . theres no question that these conspiracy theories are a popular social trend . they seem to be all over the internets. countless varying themes ranging from religion to science fiction to the more mundane “old greedy men” scenarios abound. people throw the term “conspiracy theorist” ,or more often “nut-job” , around with bombast and enthusiasm . and then there are others who will claim, with gusto, that they are of these Conspiracy theorists . they often deride others to open their eyes or “wake up”; inffering that the non-conspiracy theorists ,or “sheep” as the are sometimes called, are in some sort of delusional or half conscious state , similar to a zombie . with all these type of people running around in the tubes of the internet, it almost seems that there is a new “conspiracist lifestyle” along the same lines as surfer, punk, or emo even !
but my question is this -
—- first ,what defines something as a “conspiracy theory”
heres the definition of conspiracy -
1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.

—-second , if there have been conspiracies in the past, that were later revealed; would the person who brought the conspiracy to light have been labeled a “conspiracy theorist” prior to the publics awareness of the conspiracy ? have there been legitimate theories about past conspiracies . where do you draw the line in labeling someone a conspiracy theorist ?

—– third , what should be done with these conspiracy nuts ? should laws be enacted for the good of the people , to protect society from the dangers of certain people nosing around where they don't belong ? does the old saying of “what you don't know can't hurt you” hold true? does the stability and security of the majority require that some freedoms of speech and inquiry be limited ?

anyway , that question was a lot longer than i intended , but i thought it would make for a good debate
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
ozoneocean at 7:09AM, Oct. 9, 2008
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This is a better topic about conspiracy theorist than the others.because it's about the practice and the people rather than specific theories.

I think there are rather obvious lines. It's certainly true that there ARE conspiracies. People conspire all the time in all sorts of ways, that's how life goes and humans interact. Certain conspiracies are bigger than others and some are more harmful. Heh, you might just call it planning, or strategy or whatever, but you can also call it conspiracy. There ARE lines though, as I say, some people are obviously delusional, like a famous case recently in Britain where an intelligent, well spoken journalist who claimed for years that 9/11 was planned by the U.S. government, producing all sorts of facts and figures and reasoned arguments to back it up… and then eventually he claimed he was Jesus Christ reborn!! And he could prove it because of all the evidence he'd found pointing to it when he was researching the 9/11 thing. :)

And there are times when it's true. For instance, the conspiracy to invade Iraq. Many of us spotted that years ahead and were labelled conspiracy theorists. But we still don't know how deep that one went even now.
And 9/11 was a conspiracy, by Al Quida. DUH. lol!
But no one spotted that one…

So people shouldn't be protected from theorists. theorists should be able to speak their minds freely! When people are actually nutters, as frequently happens, especially when someone has paranoid delusions, they should get the help that they need for their own peace of mind and well being, not because they're annoying to the rest of us.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
KingRidley at 7:44AM, Oct. 9, 2008
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lothar
they often deride others to open their eyes or “wake up”; inffering that the non-conspiracy theorists ,or “sheep” as the are sometimes called, are in some sort of delusional or half conscious state , similar to a zombie .


with all these type of people running around in the tubes of the internet, it almost seems that there is a new “conspiracist lifestyle” along the same lines as surfer, punk, or emo even !


—-second , if there have been conspiracies in the past, that were later revealed; would the person who brought the conspiracy to light have been labeled a “conspiracy theorist” prior to the publics awareness of the conspiracy ? have there been legitimate theories about past conspiracies . where do you draw the line in labeling someone a conspiracy theorist ?


—– third , what should be done with these conspiracy nuts ?


ffffffffffff yes exactly, this is one of the major reasons why conspiracy nuts piss me off, aside from the constant use of logical fallacies. They're always saying “Wake up!” like THEY'RE the only people on the planet with the correct view. And I really don't appreciate being called a sheep or a zombie in any sense of the word. It's very rude.


No it isn't, and even if it was you shouldn't want it to be. Do you really want the search for a greater truth to be a fad? Because they're only going to go after popular theories like “LOL WHU DID 911” or “OMG FAEK MOON LANDIN.”


I don't think this happens very often. It's pretty rare as far as my knowledge goes. And I'm sure when it DOES happen it's usually not because of the hard efforts from some conspiracy theorist. It's because the plans unravel and people make mistakes. The conspiracy theorists are just conveniently there acting like it was their fault. Some of these people could be right, but for all the wrong reasons.


All we need to do, which we do now, is warn others that alot of conspiracy theorists are actually mentally ill (which many are), and to just use common sense when dealing with them. If something sounds intense and outlandish, then it's probably not real.




ozoneocean
When people are actually nutters, as frequently happens, especially when someone has paranoid delusions, they should get the help that they need for their own peace of mind and well being, not because they're annoying to the rest of us.

Sorry, but due to the nature of their diseases, they rationalize their sickness as part of the conspiracy. They think they're fine, and that the meds are going to wipe their brains or something like that. It's not as easy as saying “Sorry Mr conspiracy man, but have you had your pills yet today?”
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
StaceyMontgomery at 7:45AM, Oct. 9, 2008
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We NEED conspiracy nuts, because there is no real way to tell them apart from the people who uncover actual conspiracies. I mean it tends to be obvious eventually (as in Ozo's example of the guy who becomes Jesus) but early on they may look the same.

For instance, Emile Zola was called a conspiracy theorist in the Dreyfus Affair, but Zola and Dreyfus were vindicated - and good thing too.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
DAJB at 8:32AM, Oct. 9, 2008
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I agree with the general consensus so far. Most conspiracy theorists are “nut jobs” and the theories they pursue are nothing more than fanciful “what if” stories. But, as long as they're not doing or advocating harm to anyone, they should be free to believe what they want to believe, especially since - occasionally - they're not nut-jobs but genuine people who happen to have uncovered an unpleasant truth.

The most obvious and high profile example in recent years (well, “recent” to oldies like me!) would have to be the Watergate Affair. The US government was determined to paint Woodward and Bernstein as nothing more than conspiracy theorists, peddling fanciful ideas in order to increase their own importance. Well, we all know how that turned out - sometimes a conspiracy theory is indeed a conspiracy fact!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
StaceyMontgomery at 9:25AM, Oct. 9, 2008
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Ive been talking about gobal warming since the 70s. For most of that time, Ive been labelled a crazy conspiracy theorist. It is not any fun, honestly.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Skullbie at 1:31PM, Oct. 9, 2008
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There are good conspiracy theorists out there, but they are overshadowed by the views of the insane raving ones everyone hates. It's a lot like Christians, the overwhelming majority are good kind folk, but the noisy zealots make people think otherwise.

That said i've had conversations with people about what if ‘Obama became president and really was a muslim terrorist’, or ‘what if global warming is a good thing because of the ice age coming up’ and was not labeled one. I didn't outright rant about it or attack people, which is what characterizes the conspiracy theorists people hate. Don't be an asshole and you can talk about what you want without ‘alienating’ people.

And another thing against them is they're usually wrong; ‘OH NO THE WORLDS GONNA END FOR THE 67TH TIME!’ Hey nothing happened. Again. But like king ridley says a lot of them actually are insane. Not some critically thinking genius they want others to think; ‘PAY ATTENTION TO ME DAD ABUSED ME BAAAAW’
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:46PM
RuseBolton at 6:41PM, Oct. 9, 2008
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Now, before i begin i would like to stipulate that this is purely personal opinion.

With that out of the way here we go…

I tend to look at conspiracy theory's & what not in a some what asqued way,
When i hear of some random theory spouted by anyone known to be mad as a hatter or not, regardless of if they turn out to be right or wrong, it is in it's own way only speculation mixed with imagination.

E.G. A conspiracy theorist believes thoughouly enough to “have found proof” now this proof is once again only speculation as how do we know that say this piece of string they are waving about like a mad man is actually what has been used for said conspiracy? we don't! but in the same manner it goes hand in hand with organised religions, there is not Proof of a higher being (Known to man) but a major part of the human population believes that there is a god without question. How is this any different from a conspiracy? People need something to keep them going from day to day weather it be religion or a definite belief that someone has it out for them, or a dooms day device (Worlds biggest hydrogen super collider).

With all that said i have to ask, how can it be (although they may have been proven wrong) that they continue to believe in another dooms day? It's all in the belife system & imagination, & no matter what is said to the contrary they will keep going, just as organised religions have for century’s.

With that in mind i would also like to throw this at you all - (Another random conspiracy i have heard) - Who is to say that religion itself is not a mass conspiracy itself? portrayed by the world governments to suppress the masses?
People crave organisation, it makes us feel safe! & people who feel safe a happy & non rebellious people?
There is no proof of this! But it is a commonly found theory among atheists & the likes.

*NOTE* As mentioned above this is personal opinion, the question raised in regards to organised religion is merely something i was curious about & wanted to put it out there.

I’m hoping this puts a new spin on this discussion. :)
Have fun, i'm looking forward to what does come out of this discussion.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
bravo1102 at 7:49PM, Oct. 9, 2008
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It all comes down to evaluating the evidence impartially and logically. That's why the Dreyfus affair was resolved how it was. You did know there actually was a passing of information to the Germans? Dreyfus wasn't involved, he was a scapegoat.

Here's one; the Red Scare in the 1920s and 1950s. Now derided as witch hunts and paranoia about conspiracy theories *gulp* There actually were networks of KGB supported communists in the US government. The Brits found out their whole intelligence apparatus was overrun with KGB.

These were conspiracies that can be deduced and induced from evidence. Not inferred from the imagination. Too many conspiracy theories are the most unlikely explanation. Usually the simple answer is the best one. There are great leaps of faith and supposition in classic conspiracy theories that are truly remarkable. It makes the miracle of transubstantiation and the mysteries of the Trinity look as simple as making instant coffee. Something that convaluted just isn't possible to pull off with as large a group of people as many theorists think are working together.

And the main reason most conspiracies just don't work: Three people can only keep a secret if two of them are dead.


For the upteenth time Michael Shermer; Why People believe Weird Things

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
arteestx at 8:01PM, Oct. 9, 2008
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lothar
—- first ,what defines something as a “conspiracy theory”
—-second , … where do you draw the line in labeling someone a conspiracy theorist ?
I don't know if this should be part of the official definition, but for me, the concept of a conspiracy theory is a matter of scale. Two or three people conspiring to trick me, but that's not really a theory to me. My concept of a conspiracy theory involves an inordinate amount of collusion by a wide variety of people. The JFK conspiracy theory involves everyone from the CIA to Johnny Carson (I'm not making this up) conspiring together to pull the assassination off. For the 9/11 conspiracy theory to be real, you'd have to have a sophisticated coordination of people in the White House, defense, FAA, wreckage inspectors, building inspectors, etc. The Illuminati group of folks that supposedly run the world requires a huge degree of coordination. I don't know that I can say exactly where I'd draw the line though. Would a theory that says Bush told the CIA to create some evidence for the Iraq invasion be a conspiracy theory of inordinate collusion? I don't know. That would only involve one agency, so I'd think not. But it could definitely get very grey. I'd draw the line when the level of coordination goes past what what I'd consider to be reasonable, but I know that my idea of reasonable would differ from others.


lothar
—– third , what should be done with these conspiracy nuts ?
Nothing should be done to them. As long as they don't break any laws, speech should be protected. It's kind of like science. The vast majority of new theories turn out to be wacky theories that never go anywhere. But once in a while, a wacky theory that couldn't possibly be true turns out to be true after all.

Xolta is not intended for anyone under 18 years old.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
ozoneocean at 8:52PM, Oct. 9, 2008
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bravo1102
And the main reason most conspiracies just don't work: Three people can only keep a secret if two of them are dead.
They might not be able to keep the secret as long as one, but they can still keep it long enough to make their conspiracy work ;)
A Conspiracy doesn't have to be secret indefinitely, it just has to do its job and then it can slowly leak out or whatever. The whole thing about secrets and conspiracy is really more about suspected conspiracies in the past where there is almost no real evidence and the whole thing is inferred from circumstantial evidence and wishful thinking.

And the red scare was known as a witch hunt for good reason. The amount of real KBG caught that I've heard about, especially in Britain was minimal, and they weren't KGB as such anyway (not Russian trained agents) … More like high up influential British civil servants who sympathised with the Soviet cause. But the people the scare caught were ordinary workers, artists, writers… And made their life a hell. It's not a good thing to defend, even retroactively.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
RuseBolton at 9:13PM, Oct. 9, 2008
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I would also like to point out (As Ozoneocean did in some way) that for it to be conspiracy someone other than the conspirer(s) must know at least, of it, otherwise it's more like a secret society, as it dose take people to speak of the ‘plan’ etc for it to be classified as a conspiracy or else how do you know there is someone/thing conspireing to act out said motive?

I'm hoping that made sence…

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
BffSatan at 1:42AM, Oct. 10, 2008
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Some conspiracey theories have turned out to be true and some current conspiracey theories could be true, for all we know 9/11 could have been orchastrated by the American government. It's important that there are always people asking theese questions because if they didn't then the government could get away with murder. I don't think the government is hiding much but they have the power to, conspiracey theories are one of the most important aspects of living in a free country.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
StaceyMontgomery at 7:13AM, Oct. 10, 2008
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I always use this rule first: Does your theory require the government to be supernaturally capable?

Because, you know, that's a warning sign.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
DAJB at 7:40AM, Oct. 10, 2008
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StaceyMontgomery
I always use this rule first: Does your theory require the government to be supernaturally capable?
Or even competent.

Governments which can't even handle their day-to-day routine admin correctly, just aren't going to be able to manage (and keep secret) a conspiracy which requires the involvement of several high-ranking politicians, a major corporation or two, the media and, in some cases, even a couple of security agencies.

I used to work with a group of guys from Eastern Europe. It was very noticeable that, whenever something seemed to go awry, the guys with experience of living under Soviet rule would be more inclined to suspect some kind of government conspiracy, while those of us from the West would automatically assume it was a government screw-up.

As far as most conspiracy theories are concerned, I still lean more towards the latter!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
KingRidley at 8:49AM, Oct. 10, 2008
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Skullbie
I didn't outright rant about it or attack people, which is what characterizes the conspiracy theorists people hate. Don't be an asshole and you can talk about what you want without ‘alienating’ people.
This. God, I would not mind conspiracy theorists at all if they acted normally.

“Oh well here's my evidence, and my own view.”

“Man I don't believe this, it all seems too far fetched.”

“I know, and honestly I understand that you don't believe it. I'm not going to try and force it onto you or claim to have found some ridiculous kind of enlightenment. There's the information, maybe you'll give it some more thought later and see if you think any differently.”


Instead, we get:

“THE GOVERNMENT WANTS YOU TO DIE!!! Watch this video (WAY more trustworthy than the Goddamn corrupt news) and see what you think!! OPEN YOUR EYES!”

“Man I don't believe this, it all seems too far fetched.”

“Well that's just because you're a corporate zombie whore go die with your banks and walmart you'll get what you deserve I can't wait until it all crashes and burns and I'll stand by laughing I don't hate America, just its EVIL GOVERNMENT!!! I opened my eyes and my mind and found my views cleared by THE TRUTH! I feel pity for you poor sheep.”




RuseBolton
Who is to say that religion itself is not a mass conspiracy itself? portrayed by the world governments to suppress the masses?
Another thing I hate: people using things like conspiracies to try and disprove God. God is not a malevolent force trying to kill everyone or take over the planet. If you don't believe in him, then fine. But it's just as bad as the conspiracy theorists when you try and rationalize religion away as some kind of suppression force or mind control. And there's always at least one guy who tries to take advantage of opportunities such as this (thank you rusebolton) to try and say “Oh yeah well this is just like believing in God, aka ridiculous.”

Not accusing you of doing all of that exactly ruse, but you're doing some of it.



bravo1102
Usually the simple answer is the best one.

And the main reason most conspiracies just don't work: Three people can only keep a secret if two of them are dead.
Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is usually correct.

Another interesting detail is that the more people involved in a crime or plot, the less likely it is to work. To have omniscient governments working all over the world alongside an elite group of secret planners (Illuminati) would never ever work. It's logically impossible.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
StaceyMontgomery at 9:25AM, Oct. 10, 2008
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KingRidley
Another interesting detail is that the more people involved in a crime or plot, the less likely it is to work. To have omniscient governments working all over the world alongside an elite group of secret planners (Illuminati) would never ever work. It's logically impossible.

Well, I just said a similar thing, but now I want to quibble some. When people first said that the Nazis were comitting genocide in Death Camps, it was dismissed and those people were labelled Conspiracy theorists. But the nazis were not Omniscient illuminati, and more than three people were involved.

I could list others - the people Stalin starved, or the Rwandans rising up to slaughter their neighbors, or just America's lynchings, not so long ago.

Sometimes, all a conspiracy needs is to be really big.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
bravo1102 at 10:49AM, Oct. 10, 2008
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The Holocaust was proven at the time and there was a lot of evidence, but the US media refused to acknowledge it or when they did palmed it off as rumor on page 35. There was also the willing suspension of disbelief. No one could believe that any modern Western nation would do that.

As for being a conspiracy? Yes, but there were lots of people turning a blind eye to it as it went on around them. If the Nazis had won WWII (or negotiated a peace) would it have remained a secret? Again it would probably have been cognitive dissonance and suspension of disbelief until the concrete evidence was smuggled out. (Like in the novel Fatherland)

Many flet that the Hollywood portrayals of the Nazis before the US entered WWII to be exaggerated and downright propaganda; conspiracy theories about the evil of Nazism. Except after the war it was discovered to have been mostly true. Again so much evidence, evidence that was easy to find and see and did not defy logic or reason and yet people didn't believe in it.

As for Stalin and the starving; that was because of so many people in the media who were visiting the Soviet Union being supportive of Soviet Russia and not reporting it. Just like many reports on Castro's Cuba today. Can the country the expatirates talk about be the same one that various notables have visited and given glowing reports of? The same thing happened in the 1920s-30s. Many on the American left supported Hitler as long as Stalin did. The Russian people knew better. (One side of family disappeared into Siberia during Collectivization. Also see Russia and the Russians and some recent Russian documentaries on Stalin)

As for the KGB trained and influenced agents: Recently released KGB and FBI files indicate that it was true and more widespread than could be believed. The FBI did not prosecute many of them as it would have compromised agents and surveillance.

As for a conspiracies' secrecy working until the consiracy is pulled off: the great majority fail because someone always talks (try 80%+, the ones that do work are the ones with very few conspirators, compartmentalized; something that most modern conspiracy theories do not allow for. They're entirely too generalized and grand to be workable. It's like they would need all of WWII's Mi5, Blentchly Park, OSS and the French Resistance to have pulled off the 9/11 conspiracy. With today's lucrative tell-all books? There'd be exposes all over. (Just like they couldn't keep the intelligence “conspiracy” that got the US to attack Iraq secret)

But of course we know everything is controlled by the Illuminati and Bilderbergers but they are controlled by the Rothchilds who are controlled by the Gray Aliens and the Annunaki who are controlled by the Grand Master of Fandom who is controlled by the cigarette smoking man and the Grassy Knoll Second Shooter.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
lothar at 8:33PM, Oct. 10, 2008
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Someone
hypothetical conversation -

*Conspiracist - “THE GOVERNMENT WANTS YOU TO DIE!!! Watch this video (WAY more trustworthy than the Goddamn corrupt news) and see what you think!! OPEN YOUR EYES!”

*Anti-consp. - “Man I don't believe this, it all seems too far fetched.”

*Conspiracist - “Well that's just because you're a corporate zombie whore go die with your banks and walmart you'll get what you deserve I can't wait until it all crashes and burns and I'll stand by laughing I don't hate America, just its EVIL GOVERNMENT!!! I opened my eyes and my mind and found my views cleared by THE TRUTH! I feel pity for you poor sheep.”

sounds about rite except for the anti-conspiracist persons words are sometimes more like this -
*Anti-consp. - “man you're an anti american racist and you love hitler . get your head out of michele moors ass . also you are insane and need to take your medication . because i do not see any flaws whatsoever with the nation i just happened to be born into. i love wal-mart and believe everything my leaders say . btw, i dont need to give any thought to anything you say because i have already made up my mind based on my superior logic. ”
\
sometimes its like that. not always . i'm saying it goes both ways .

it's a cycle, with both sides pushed further and further apart. polarized. each side gets more frustrated and less rational.


As far as conspiracy theories themselves go , its a matter of increasing absurdity that discredits even rational questions. i will use 911 as an example , with each theory geting more outlandish.
this is overly simplified, there are many scenarios that can fit in between these. i include the official theory, the others i will call hyothesis.

0- the “cave men” theory, that men armed only with box cutters, evaded the FBI and the CIA, overpowered 4 commercial airlines and deftly piloted them into their targets. the government knew nothing and was powerless to stop them.

1-the “bush knew” hypothesis . that somehow bush and others had prior knowledge and did nothing to stop it, for whatever reason ascribed , take your pick.

2-the “911 was an inside job ” hypothesis, that the planes were remotely controlled and had bombs. also there were bombs planted in the towers.

3-the “no planes” hypothesis. no planes hit the towers at all and the media faked it. aided by the illuminati or reptoids or satan or all of them. their ultimate goal being to use the cassini probe to ignite Saturn into a mini star and in so doing somehow bring about world government.

im just using that as an example of how some reasonable questions can transform into very unreasonable answers.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
cartoonprofessor at 8:52PM, Oct. 10, 2008
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DAJB
StaceyMontgomery
I always use this rule first: Does your theory require the government to be supernaturally capable?
Or even competent.


Ha Ha, well said. Most Conspiracys are simply some person or persons taking advantage of a given situation to further their profits and therefore control. Sometimes a situation provides an opportunity to create another situation or event to serve the same purpose.

For eg; If the US govt was NOT behind 9/11, then they sure took advantage of it to pursue the neo-con agenda.

Unfortunately the word, ‘conspiracy’ has been used in a negative way for so long that anyone who decides to use their own intellect and question the mainstream media's version of events better just keep their mouth shut about it or WAP! the label hits them in the face.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:36AM
KingRidley at 11:01PM, Oct. 10, 2008
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lothar
*Anti-consp. - “man you're an anti american racist and you love hitler . get your head out of michele moors ass . also you are insane and need to take your medication . because i do not see any flaws whatsoever with the nation i just happened to be born into. i love wal-mart and believe everything my leaders say . btw, i dont need to give any thought to anything you say because i have already made up my mind based on my superior logic. ”




3-the “no planes” hypothesis. no planes hit the towers at all and the media faked it. aided by the illuminati or reptoids or satan or all of them. their ultimate goal being to use the cassini probe to ignite Saturn into a mini star and in so doing somehow bring about world government.

Oh man I'm really sorry about this, but I could not help but laugh at how fast my brain suggested “fuck you” as a response to that. Seriously I'm not taking any offense to your interpretation there, I just made this too damn funny. Ahahaha, oh man.



No no no, you have to ignite Jupiter, not Saturn. Jupiter was almost a star anyways, Saturn would be a waste of effort. Didn't you ever read the Space Odyssey books?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
lothar at 11:20PM, Oct. 10, 2008
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yea.its fun to make things up !

KingRidley
No no no, you have to ignite Jupiter, not Saturn. Jupiter was almost a star anyways, Saturn would be a waste of effort. Didn't you ever read the Space Odyssey books?
i read the first one , but that was about a galactic super highway , not making stars. 2010 i only saw the movie.

mmm, Jupiter would make more sense , but the theory i heard was Saturn. thats where the Cassini probe is. although as soon as i heard this theory about a second sun,named “lucifer” no less, my first thought was ; how bright could that even be when seen from the Earth? prolly not much. not enuf to bring about the NWO anyway.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
KingRidley at 7:56AM, Oct. 11, 2008
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lothar
mmm, Jupiter would make more sense , but the theory i heard was Saturn. thats where the Cassini probe is.
See? They ignore the logical choice in planets to ignite just because of a satellite? It's silly.


edit: I didn't pretend like I made any of that up, so don't pretend like you did. We both used almost exact quotes, except that yours were a little bit more exaggerated.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
Puff_Of_Smoke at 8:02AM, Oct. 11, 2008
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There's a conspiracy theory on everything these days. Milk is melted moon rocks. The Russians are Lucifer's army. Whatever.
I
I have a gun. It's really powerful. Especially against living things.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:56PM
Hawk at 3:00PM, Oct. 11, 2008
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I agree with Stacey. The world needs conspiracy theorists, even if some of them are nuts.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Mushroomcomix at 6:23PM, Oct. 11, 2008
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Yes, the world needs conspiracy theorists. That way they can uncover things that the public needs to know that they don't. If what you don't know can't hurt you then why can't we not know what won't hurt us.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:08PM
KingRidley at 11:20PM, Oct. 11, 2008
(offline)
posts: 151
joined: 9-28-2008
Puff_Of_Smoke
There's a conspiracy theory on everything these days. Milk is melted moon rocks. The Russians are Lucifer's army. Whatever.

One I thought of today:

The Government destroys old money after it is taken out of distribution so that time travelers can't come back to today and get money that would be useable in the past (because today's money would be considered fake).

I'm going to spread this around, try to get people to believe it. I'd love to hear the government make a statement about it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM

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