Debate and Discussion

Creationism and other Bible stories.
zaneeba_slave at 7:44PM, Feb. 6, 2008
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I dont hate evolution, actually. being a creationist myself, I have learned much from my friends about the ideas of evolution, and find it fascinating. Some of my best friends are evolutionists, Rationalists, buhddists, and Catholics….

Wait… are catholics creationists? Meh.

But there are some things i see wrong with the ideas of Evolution:

1) Skulls of apes are good and all, but there is no living proof of the things. There are chimps (Which are un-evolved humans) and humans (which are evolved chimps) but there is no middle ground. only bones. Not that thats bad, but you cant really judge a skull by how it looks if you dont first know what it looked like in the first place.

2) correct me if i'm wrong, but doesnt carbon-dating only tell how old something is up to 60000 years? That is but a small sliver of the evolutionary track. So it doesnt make much since either. I could be absolutely wrong, though…


And you may not believe it, my dear drunkduck people, but I have seen the supernatural. yes. the super natural. Does this prove that there is a God? No, but it does sortof seal the idea of there being an afterlife.
Let me tell you the stories:

It all began when my friend moved out of the house next to me. He and his parents enjoyed the Quiji board just a little too well when I would come over. They almost played it every night (I only assumed that my friend summoned the ghosts somehow, because they only showed up after he left. The Quiji board could be a hoax, but something had to wake them up.)

Then an new family moved in a few months earlier. Their son and I became good friends. And for a while, things were fine.
However, things began to happen: moving furniture, sounds, and forboding feelings. And shortly after that, the full specters actually began to show up.

There were two specters; a soldier and a child. The soldier was seen mostly, and the child only came around a couple times.

The soldier was the mean one. My friend told me he saw him with and without his eyes closed, so he could not even take shelter in his own mind. The soldier had some strange thing for my friend, and haunted him the most; sometimes even picking up his bed while he slept on it.

They moved away, of course. never heard from them again.

A new family moved in. I never knew them, but my brother did. My brother told me of his friend bragging about “Seeing a soldier with a bullet hole in his head” floating around the household.

They moved away within the week.

A while later, my uncle came over. He is very high-tech and had a super cool infer-red camera for us to look through.

I, being curious, decided to look through the camera at the house. There on the porch, was a man. Just standing smack dab in the middle of the porch of the house.

Keep in mind, that the house was empty. No one has lived there in months. And there he stood.

I looked away from the camera, then looked back in. it was gone. My family saw it too over my shoulder. My mom actually went up onto the porch of the house to see if there was something that would make the man-shaped figure. nothing.

A year after that, I was walking by the house. I peeped over to see if I cold se something. And there, in the window: a child pressed up against the window. I screamed, of course! It was frightening. I blinked, and it was gone.

I ran home, and never saw another ghost again.



So, that is why I dont believe in Evolution. For I have seen the afterlife.
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
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UltimaXG2 at 9:01PM, Feb. 6, 2008
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Zan, is that just creepy-pasta? Anywho, an afterlife doesn't refute evolution, nor does evolution refute god. Also, carbon-dating is 50,000 years, and there are other methods for dating other than carbon. If you also take into account our 99.99% similarities to other primates (in terms of skeletal structure and genetic makeup), it's hard to deny. I find religion fascinating, not so much the beginning, but the end times, so I can see where you're coming from with the fascination. But… If your religion believes in heaven, then didn't your seeing the soldier and the boy refute the existence of heaven? Does that mean we die and our conscience stays stuck here on this miserable dustball?
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last edited on July 14, 2011 4:36PM
arteestx at 2:38AM, Feb. 7, 2008
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zaneeba_slave
2) correct me if i'm wrong, but doesnt carbon-dating only tell how old something is up to 60000 years? That is but a small sliver of the evolutionary track. So it doesnt make much since either. I could be absolutely wrong, though…
FYI, you're essentially correct that carbon dating goes back approx. 60,000 years. But know that there is also radiometric dating, sometimes called radioactive dating, that uses other isotopes (besides carbon-14) to date rocks and fossils hundreds of thousands and even millions of years old.

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ozoneocean at 3:30AM, Feb. 7, 2008
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zaneeba_slave
evolutionists, Rationalists, buhddists, and Catholics….
There's no such thing as an “evolutionist”… Because it's not counted as a belief or movement you adhere to, not since the 19thC when Darwin had to have advocates for the theory. If someone considers themselves as such, they're likely a nut and worth treating with care.
zaneeba_slave
Wait… are catholics creationists? Meh.
Anybody can be, it's no restricted to any flavour of Christianity or any other religion for that matter. Just don't expect all creationists to subscribe to the same stories.
zaneeba_slave
There are chimps (Which are un-evolved humans) and humans (which are evolved chimps)
A common misconception. They have nothing to do with each other in that regard. The thinking is that due to the superficial similarity and some genetic similarity (not all THAT exciting if you put it into context with other creatures with which we share DNA), it is believed that humans and chimps shared a common ancestor down the line a very long way.
-that DOES NOT mean a liner evolutionary link from chimps- to the missing link- to humans; rather it talks about some apelike creature in the distant past that first had an offshoot that became chimps, and the later the same original species had an off-shoot that became the early proto-humans. (lots of different variations of those before us).
-so rather than being your great, great, great grandmother to the power of 100, that stinky lady chimp is more like your Great, great, great, great great second couisn to the power of 100 lol!
 
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UltimaXG2 at 10:52AM, Feb. 7, 2008
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ozoneocean
-so rather than being your great, great, great grandmother to the power of 100, that stinky lady chimp is more like your Great, great, great, great great second couisn to the power of 100 lol!

… Very well put… I almost started cracking up, but I'd look like a lunatic.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 4:36PM
zaneeba_slave at 4:14PM, Feb. 7, 2008
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ok I consider my self wrong, then :)

And to reply to a previous post, witnessing spirits has not greatly effected my ways of thinking over creationism. The bible talks alot about spirits, and how they take many shapes. Perhaps that is what they are.

To reply to a more previous post, there has actually been some times where the supernatural has been infact documented by scientists.

I.E, there was a man who claimed he was able to go months without eating, sleeping, or drinking. So a group of camera-men set up many cameras around in a cave to see if he could really do it. The man sat down to meditate, and did not move for three months. This was indeed strange to some.

And there are places in the world that have been catigorized as “Haunted.” Super special occasions, like the Anna Maria ship and the Asylum whose name escapes me right now. And scientists have never proved aliens exist, yet they believe it as much as radioactivity.

And the fact that my friend was SO close to being possessed by spirits, I also believe in demons. Some cases may actually be a sickness, but there are some extraordinary cases of possession that boggle the minds of doctors and scientists.

Such supernatural phenomena is quite real all around us. Some people, however, do not believe it is true for they have never seen these things in real life.

but seeing is believing, and I have seen far too much to mark such things off as less than godly.

(oh and the Catjolic thing was a joke. it wasnt a very good one, but oh well ;) )
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
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alibaba at 2:59AM, Feb. 9, 2008
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@zaneeba_slave: i agree; i find the things yoga are able to accomplish pretty fascinating, like control their body temperature, etc. (though i wouldn't jump to the conclusion to call them supernatural, they are just not thoroughly enough investigated yet ;) )


zaneeba_slave
And scientists have never proved aliens exist, yet they believe it as much as radioactivity.
thats the only point i gotta disagree. almost no scientists believe in aliens. it's like bigfoot, it gets a lot of media coverage and so many claim to have seen it, but there are no actual traces whatsoever.
there are countless things in the sky that could look like a flying saucer, but why should an alien spaceship look like that at all? its the humans with their limited imagination who want it to look like that… v_v
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ozoneocean at 6:08AM, Feb. 9, 2008
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Aliens…

Well “believing” in flying saucers is a different thing. ;)

Look, if life can come to be and evolve here, it can possibly happen elsewhere too; given how mind-numbingly massive the universe is and how many planets there are out there it's very likely that life could occur in other places.

So it is possible and probable that extraterrestrial life exists. But that's as far as it goes scientifically. They try and find traces of earth-like life on Mars and Venus, and intelligible radio broadcasts from deep space, but that's all pretty prosaic really, nothing to do with cow mutilation or hill billies getting butt-probed.

So Alibaba, scientists tend to accept the possibility that alien life exists. ^_^
 
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alibaba at 6:57AM, Feb. 9, 2008
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@ozoneocean & zaneeba_slave: i see, thats true ^_^.
i understood “aliens” in the way of “those gray little guys” XD .

but you're right, the possibility of extraterrestrial life is not too far-fetched.
i, too, am actually quite positive that traces of (primitive) life on other planets will be found sooner or later.
but WE will be the ones to butt-probe it, then! muhahaha! XD j/k
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zaneeba_slave at 7:05AM, Feb. 9, 2008
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It is all in how you look at it.

I beleve in aliens, but not really intelligent beings like us that know how to fly around in space. I believe things are unexplainable, like UFOs, that might lead to the conclusion of aliens.

But what ARE UFOs? No one has ever went up to one and asked where they come from. They only asumed that UFOs are alien, and from another planet.

Sure, people have been so-called “abducted,” but never in my searching have any of them ever saw a “Disk-like object in the sky” before it happened.

Keep in mind that there are also things known as USOs that actually live out in the ocean. There is the flying UFOs and the sailing USOs. Do aliens live in the ocean, or is a UFO just a misunderstanding?

I believe people have seen things out in the sky or in the sea, but I also believe that these things have nothing to do with aliens. Or crop-circles. Or the ability to aid people into creating the Great Wall of China.


I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
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arteestx at 12:35PM, Feb. 13, 2008
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kyupol
Is it a mere accident? If everything is a mere accident, how did we evolve from bacteria to intelligent life? …..

If an accident just caused everything to exist… and that accident suddenly caused everything to be organized (the planets, the laws of physics, chemistry, biology, etc. etc. etc.), then that accident must have some intelligence of its own.

How can an accident cause order? I cannot seem to understand that. Please explain.

It is a common misunderstanding that evolution is an increase in order. Humans do not have more order than bacteria. And bacteria have been around on this planet for millions of years before humans showed up and will be around for millions of years long after our species dies off.

However, humans are more complex than bacteria, so maybe that's what you're referring to. I won't go into all the equations that show how evolution does not violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Instead, I'll show you some accidents that lead to more organization and more complexity.

- Hurricanes are a natural increase in complexity and order, where circumstances come together and “accidentally” create a huge storm. Must this accident have intelligence of its own? No.

- Snowflakes start out as simple water and form orderly, complex structures. Happens billions and billions of times. Must this demonstrate intelligence? No.

- Nylon digestion of bacteria. It was found that bacteria that lived downstream of a chemical plant mutated extra metabolic pathways that allowed them to digest nylon, an evolutionary increase in complexity that occurred naturally. Are bacteria intelligent? Well, I haven't talked to any recently so I'm not sure. ;)

And these are just a few examples of how “accidents” can lead to increasing complexity. And what you also have to remember is that most of the time, biological accidents *are* disastrous. Most mutations result in unviable embryos, genetic diseases, cancer, deformities, etc. Most biological “accidents” harm organisms. Mutations that help organisms are not as common as those that hurt or are neutral (neither help nor hurt). But when it does help an organism, that's when increasing complexity can develop.

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horseboy at 9:50PM, Feb. 16, 2008
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alibaba
thats the only point i gotta disagree. almost no scientists believe in aliens. it's like bigfoot, it gets a lot of media coverage and so many claim to have seen it, but there are no actual traces whatsoever.
Well, I was watching Monster Hunters the other night. They found this HUGE bloody footprint. Ran the DNA and it turned up an unknown primate. It was like one deviation (I think) away from human but not human. You never know.
There is no such word as “alot”. “A lot” is two words.
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Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
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Mr_Vortex at 8:34AM, Feb. 28, 2008
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The theory of evolution is testable, predictive and offers tangible benefits to human beings.

The theories of creationism and intelligent design are not testable, they do not predict anything and they only help preachers fill their collection plates.
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Hapoppo at 11:55AM, Feb. 28, 2008
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I don't believe in evolution, but I avoid taking a condescending opinion towards evolutionists just because they have different opinions than me. But I also don't understand how people come to the conclusion that because many aspects of the universe can be explained, that it's definitive proof that there is no God. I know that historically, God has been painted as this magical old guy in a toga and a long, white beard shooting lightning bolts at people because at the time, science just couldn't explain certain things; but likewise, it seems completely pointless if God would set up an entire, complex universe filled with incredible processes, from the micro to the macro, which all work together beautifully like a work of art, just to turn a 180 and play some colossal game of Dungeons and Dragons. My belief, take it or leave it, is that the entire universe, souls, the afterlife, God, angels, and demons, are all there, all set up to work through science, and all explainable; but our understanding is too limited to fully comprehend how it works.
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mapaghimagsik at 12:19PM, Feb. 28, 2008
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Hapoppo
I don't believe in evolution, but I avoid taking a condescending opinion towards evolutionists just because they have different opinions than me. But I also don't understand how people come to the conclusion that because many aspects of the universe can be explained, that it's definitive proof that there is no God.

That's not my understanding how atheism works. Evolution, which is very provable, has nothing to do with the existence of a deity or not.

I really have no disagreement with the rest of your statements, though you are kind of erecting a strawman – or more aptly, taking the weakest of examples – to disprove an entire area.

That's kind of like proving something wrong in the Bible, and then saying it discredits the entire work.
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Hapoppo at 12:32PM, Feb. 28, 2008
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mapaghimagsik
I really have no disagreement with the rest of your statements, though you are kind of erecting a strawman – or more aptly, taking the weakest of examples – to disprove an entire area.

I think you're misreading my intentions here - I'm not trying to prove or disprove evolution or God, I really don't have enough knowledge on scientific whatnot to do so, I'm just pointing out that the existence of God isn't impossible.
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alibaba at 5:21PM, Feb. 28, 2008
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Hapoppo
I'm just pointing out that the existence of God isn't impossible.

but is the sole possibility enough reason to believe in it?

i'm quite skeptic, after all there are countless things that we don't understand and can't prove or disprove - why should we think that something like god could exist, but not something like, uh, unicorns XD ?



concerning your previous post, i'd like to mention that most non-believers specifically don't believe in those gods that are of this traditional “magical old guy”-type that you mentioned.

so most non-theists don't reject the idea of intelligent design - a creation initiated/ guided by god - per se.

the problem with that hypothesis is that it doesn't work - in stark contrast to the theory of evolution, which is pretty darn convincing (like vortex said above).

in order for intelligent design to sound plausible it would first of all have to tackle the question of why there could be complexity right from the beginning (god).
proponents of ID could try to work out mathematical models that somehow explain this problem, but they consistently and deliberately avoid it.
instead they try to falsify evolution, for some reason. well, that isn't constructive…


the question that really interests me, though, is whether it is better to us humans to know the uncomfortable truth or follow a beautiful illusion?
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Mr_Vortex at 6:47PM, Feb. 28, 2008
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alibaba said: “the question that really interests me, though, is whether it is better to us humans to know the uncomfortable truth or follow a beautiful illusion?”

I am going to suggest that the uncomfortable truth is better than the beautiful illusion and I have an example, well two examples:

1. The uncomfortable truth. Many of the advances in modern medical science are being made because of understanding gained from the theory of evolution. These advances lead to cures and treatments that keep people alive! And, I'm not being hypothetical here I am alive today because of new chemotherapy drugs that prevented me from dying a slow and painful death.

I am just one example, looks at what antibiotics have done for us. The world we live in is measurable safer and healthier because of the ‘uncomfortable truth’.

2. The beautiful lie. If we were designed by god/creator then he/she/it did an ass poor job of building us. I'm not saying that the human body doesn't have some amazing and complex features but there are problems it us. Our eyes could be better, we get sore backs, a stunningly high rate of child birth related deaths, the easy with which we choke, an inability to produce vitamin C and countless more.

These problems don't make sense if we were designed by a half-way intelligent designer. They're explainable by natural selection, or I guess if our creator was a sadist(see Tay-Sachs Disease if you have any doubt).

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Hawk at 10:20AM, Feb. 29, 2008
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Are you serious? All God-related stuff aside, the human body is incredible. I'm still astounded at all the ways it defends itself and adjusts and accommodates to survive. With the life expectancy of most other animals being so much shorter, these human bodies we have are something truly special and amazing.
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Mr_Vortex at 8:42PM, Feb. 29, 2008
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Human bodies are fantastic and amazing but we are far from perfect.
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StaceyMontgomery at 6:29AM, March 2, 2008
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Isn't Creationism, at its core, a conspiracy theory?

Wikipedia defines a conspiracy like this: “A conspiracy theory usually attributes the ultimate cause of an event or chain of events (usually political, social, pop cultural or historical events), or the concealment of such causes from public knowledge, to a secret, and often deceptive plot by a group of powerful or influential people or organizations” (There's more to this definition on Wikipedia, of course)

It seems to me that Creationists believe in the scientific process most of the time. They “believe” in gravity and neutrons and water salinity and corpuscles and a million other things. It is only in biology that Creationists say that science doesn't work. And if you listen carefully, it seems to me that they are saying that modern biology and its related sciences are being deliberately distorted by a conspiracy of evil scientists.

This of course means that the scientists really know better - they are simply trying to promote their satanic agenda!

Is this a fair reading? I mean, don't Creationists clearly view scientists as a Conspiracy?


I'll just point out that i don't think it's an insult to call an idea a conspiracy theory. After all, some conspiracy theories have turned out to be true. Anyone who talked about the Mafia in the US before the McClellan Hearings was called a conspiracy theorist, after all, and events like the Dreyfus affair or the Gulf of Tonkin remind us always that the truth is not always what we are told.

Still, it seems to me that Creationism as it is taught in the US has the basic hallmarks of a conspiracy theory - the belief that a powerful group people and organizations are working together to conceal a basic truth, and that a brave bunch of superheros (in this case, the creationists) are all that stand against this terrible plot!

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arteestx at 7:40AM, March 3, 2008
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StaceyMontgomery
Isn't Creationism, at its core, a conspiracy theory?

… that modern biology and its related sciences are being deliberately distorted by a conspiracy of evil scientists.

Is this a fair reading? I mean, don't Creationists clearly view scientists as a Conspiracy?
There's also the other possible conspiracy I've heard… that God can create the world any way he wants, including making it look like it's billions of years old (old rocks, buried fossils, etc.) to test our faith. And yes, I have had people offer this as a possible explanation to me.

To put it another way, and to steal some lines from Bill Hicks, this is the idea that God is f****ng with our heads, like He's a prankster God “let's see who believes in me now! Flying lizards, hahaha!!”

Of course the theological implications of this conspiracy are far more troubling. I much prefer the evil scientist version.

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Mr_Vortex at 10:15AM, March 4, 2008
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StaceyMontgomery
Isn't Creationism, at its core, a conspiracy theory?

Wikipedia defines a conspiracy like this: “A conspiracy theory usually attributes the ultimate cause of an event or chain of events (usually political, social, pop cultural or historical events), or the concealment of such causes from public knowledge, to a secret, and often deceptive plot by a group of powerful or influential people or organizations” (There's more to this definition on Wikipedia, of course)

It seems to me that Creationists believe in the scientific process most of the time. They “believe” in gravity and neutrons and water salinity and corpuscles and a million other things. It is only in biology that Creationists say that science doesn't work. And if you listen carefully, it seems to me that they are saying that modern biology and its related sciences are being deliberately distorted by a conspiracy of evil scientists.

This of course means that the scientists really know better - they are simply trying to promote their satanic agenda!

Is this a fair reading? I mean, don't Creationists clearly view scientists as a Conspiracy?


I'll just point out that i don't think it's an insult to call an idea a conspiracy theory. After all, some conspiracy theories have turned out to be true. Anyone who talked about the Mafia in the US before the McClellan Hearings was called a conspiracy theorist, after all, and events like the Dreyfus affair or the Gulf of Tonkin remind us always that the truth is not always what we are told.

Still, it seems to me that Creationism as it is taught in the US has the basic hallmarks of a conspiracy theory - the belief that a powerful group people and organizations are working together to conceal a basic truth, and that a brave bunch of superheros (in this case, the creationists) are all that stand against this terrible plot!



I have never once thought of Creationism that way before but I will from now on. Very insightful.
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Calbeck at 1:14AM, March 6, 2008
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alibaba
on topic: i must say i really wonder why so many people still want to believe in a god (from a scientific point of view).

Science isn't based on “want”. People want to believe in a god for numerous reasons, not the least of which is fear of the termination of the self in death. The question is whether or not the desire is a reasonable one, and whether or not the beliefs supporting it are themselves reasonable.

we perfectly know that the earth is not the centre of the universe.
we also know that the earth hasn't been made specifically for humans.

God never said it was the center. But if you want to postulate the Earth was “made” in the first place, then you're re-introducing God to the issue and if you take Him as a given then yes, pretty much the world WAS made for the purpose of supporting humanity.

but humans have developed egos and have become pretty arrogant.
by claiming that god made humans in his (!) image we were basically saying: “humans stand above all other life forms”.

Last I heard, it was God saying mankind was made in His image. Also, what's “image” mean? That we all look physically like God? Or that He had an idea for a design, and we're the end result? The computer you're working on was created “in the image” of its designers. It's not egotism to note the obvious.

every culture has come up with their own creation stories and god-designs.
yet, some still believe that “our story is real and the million others are blasphemy”!

Well, FWIW, I think we've empirically proven that the planet is not sitting on the back of a turtle. -;>
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Calbeck at 1:22AM, March 6, 2008
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Mr_Vortex
Human bodies are fantastic and amazing but we are far from perfect.

Nothing is, nor could it be in any universe that allows self-determinancy of any kind, because only in such a controlled environment could perfection be prevented from changing — in which case it would cease to be perfect.



last edited on July 14, 2011 11:35AM
StaceyMontgomery at 5:13AM, March 6, 2008
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Of course, the point isn't that our bodies are not perfect, the point is that our bodies imperfections reveal the complexities of our history - and a path that is free of design.

Like, my cat doesn't need to watch her vitamin C. Her body produces all the Vitamin C she needs.

But our bodies do not. Humans are descended from arboreal creatures that ate Vitamin C rich foods. Over the millenia, our ancestors lost the ability to create their own Vitamin C.

See, If cats lost the ability to make Vitamin C, they'd die of scurvy. So all the cats you know are descended from the cats that kept their ability to make Vitamin C.

But our ancestors ate Vitamin C rich foods all day - berries and fruits. So when some of them lost the ability to make Vitamin C they did not die. This mutation - an inability to make Vitamin C - spread through the population because it had no consequences. Those who lacked the Vitamin C synthesis gene were just as well off as those who had it - so long as we ate fruit all day.

Of course, eons later, I'm an omnivore. It would be useful for me if I could make my own Vitamin C, like a cat. But I cannot. The history of sail would be different if humans did not get scurvy!

Is there any evidence of design here? Some clever reason why we should lack the ability to make Vitamin C? Did God curse Eve and all her descendants with a lack of Vitamin C genes for being fallible?

No. It is an obvious consequence of the history of our species.

Creationism is like walking into a room with a dead body and a murderer. Ignoring all the evidence (the murderer's bloody hands, his fearful expression, an obvious motive, his fingerprints on the murder weapon…) the Creationist just shrugs and says “Zeus did it!”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
kyupol at 7:37AM, March 6, 2008
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Bible stories should not be taken literally. They are symbolic.

Think about it. God created the world in 7 days. It didnt say the day = 24 hours.

Adam and Eve could have really been an Adam and Eve for all types of races on earth.

And the stuff about Noah's ark. I find it absurd that one big boat was able to hold a good number of the world's people and animals.

I think that Noah's ark was really a big spaceship or really a whole bunch of spaceships that saved humanity from total destruction.

The great flood could be symbolic of a big nuclear war that annihilated the human race when the human race were getting too immoral and out of hand.


Also the stuff about the Jesus story being a copycat of the story of ancient Egyptian religion.

What if it is really symbolic?

The thing is, the bible shouldnt be ignored. It is still a remarkable book. I know that the bible has been given a bad name by religious zealots who insist on a literal interpretation of the bible and use it to control the population and spread hate about other religions, homosexuals, atheists, etc.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
StaceyMontgomery at 8:56AM, March 6, 2008
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It is important to note that many (perhaps most?) Creationists do believe in Biblical inerrancy - the idea that the Christian Bible is without error, and free from all contradiction.

This is a very common idea in America today, and while Biblical Inerrancy is not the same as Creationism, the two ideas tend to show up together.

Of course, the idea seems kind of silly to me. And even if the Bible were without error and all translations somehow magically guided, one would *still* have the trouble of telling which stories are meant to be literal and which parts are meant as parables.

- Leviticus 11:6 (King James Version)
“And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you”

Of course, rabbits do not chew their cud, this passage is mistaken or (more likely) mistranslated.

Actually, as mistranslations go, it's a very, very minor one. But once you say “without error” you have a rather high bar to cross. The Bible makes a poor biology textbook.

And yet, I have met fundamentalist Xtians who believe in creationism and Biblical inerrancy but also go rabbit hunting.

Oh well.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
alibaba at 10:51AM, March 6, 2008
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joined: 2-6-2008
kyupol
Bible stories should not be taken literally. They are symbolic.
amen.

kyupol
The great flood could be symbolic of a big nuclear war that annihilated the human race when the human race were getting too immoral and out of hand.
luckily there is no evidence for this kind of hypothesis whatsoever (else humans would have been completely wiped out long ago XD).

Calbeck
Science isn't based on “want”.
ideally yes, but practically unfortunately it is…
there are far too many people who want to believe that the creation of the universe was started and guided by intelligence, although no evidence supports this idea.
intelligent design is nothing else but wishful thinking, and yet, because its such an appealing and popular idea, it somehow managed to hold for quite some time against the theory of evolution. of course ID is not real science, but (too) many take it quite serious, calling it a rival theory of evolution and all.

Calbeck
Last I heard, it was God saying mankind was made in His image.
no, i think it should be: last i heard, it was humans saying that humans were made in gods image.

Calbeck
what's “image” mean?
i really wonder what the original text said, perhaps that would clear it up.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
TheMidge28 at 12:03PM, March 6, 2008
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posts: 6,847
joined: 7-5-2007
my two cents: The idea of perfection is subjective.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:24PM

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