Drunk Duck Awards

DD Awards 2008 - Let's Plan It Out!
lba at 9:31PM, July 30, 2008
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Alright, as of midnight Wednesday night/Thursday morning I've got the link up on Last Words. If there's anything else I can do on a shoestring budget to help promote things, I'll gladly give it a go.

I'm thinking we should probably keep this thread open and active as a discussion area for those running the awards and doing presentations along with the voting form announcements and whatnot. There's not really a place to give commentary or communicate on the voting form to keep everyone on the same page.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
freakenburger at 9:57PM, July 30, 2008
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I'm not sure if it was already answered… When the presenters will know what they'll do? Oh, May I mention the DD awards in one of my comics?
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:30PM
DAJB at 6:57AM, July 31, 2008
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amanda
As for the judging/voting I really think popular vote is the way to do it rather than a panel of judges. That mostly stems from me thinking the US Electoral College is unbelievably silly. I'm always happy to hear your opinions on the matter, though, so I'm not setting anything in stone until August 1 (when the nomination form is official).
Personally, I'd prefer a panel system.

Pretty much all the webcomic awards on the net use the “popular vote” method and the results, predictably, have nothing to do with quality. Instead, the comics which get the most votes are inevitably those which already have the most readers. If the awards are simply going to reflect size of readership, we can avoid a lot of work and make the awards on the basis of the the existing rankings.

A panel, on the other hand, is better placed to objectively judge the quality of a comic with a small readership against the quality of a comic with a large readership on an equal basis.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
lba at 7:18AM, July 31, 2008
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freakenburger
I'm not sure if it was already answered… When the presenters will know what they'll do? Oh, May I mention the DD awards in one of my comics?

Go ahead and mention them all you want. We're banking on it. And the presenters will know what they're doing for sure once Amanda and myself have managed to tally and compare all the votes to determine winners I would imagine.

The only problem with doing a panel DAJB is that it would require several people to spend a large chunk of time finding appropriate comics or going through an entire list of nominations. It's possible that we could do a popular vote and combine it with a panel of judges approach by having a group go over the nominations and pick the best of those comics selected. However, seeing as how we're so close to the Awards starting here, that idea might have to wait for implementation until next year. But in the end it's Amanda's decision if we can pull it this year since she's head honcho of the awards.

I would imagine however, that if we happen to get a case where a comic has clearly been nominated simply because someone spammed the form, that we can step in and do some judging.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
amanda at 7:26AM, July 31, 2008
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@Iba: Awesome - it's very much appreciated! BlkKnight has written a wonderful little program to compile results in an easy-to-read format. SO - I'm going to dump all the ballots into a giant word document and send his way. Having the raw ballots sent your way just keeps me honest. ^.~

@Freakenburger: I haven't doled out awards sections yet. I'll probably do that once the ballot goes live.

@DAJB: I'd be happy to work on a panel system once the original nominations are done (and once we've weeded out joke nominations, natch). Wanna volunteer for a panel or seven? =]

What do you guys think? Popular vote on the original nominations, then panel system on the final votes? I imagine that people could volunteer for several panels. I imagine the panel system would work like so: each panel member for a certain category familiarizes himself (or herself) with the five nominees. Then he/she lists out choices in order and discusses specifics with other panelists. If we do this, I'd like at least three panelists per category. Extra work, but possibly worth it.

I'm cool with being on any/all panels.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
BlkKnight at 8:43AM, July 31, 2008
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I don't see a problem with the popular/panel combination you suggested. However, the panels should be formed after the nominations are in to ensure the panelists are not voting on their own works. Though you probably figured that out already.
That's “Dr. BlkKnight” to all of you.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:26AM
DAJB at 1:07PM, July 31, 2008
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amanda
@DAJB: I'd be happy to work on a panel system once the original nominations are done (and once we've weeded out joke nominations, natch). Wanna volunteer for a panel or seven? =]
Sure, I'd join a panel or two (though probably not seven!)
;-)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
amanda at 4:18PM, July 31, 2008
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Just as a heads up - I updated the ballot NOW since I wasn't sure if I'd be able to access my account later ^.^ (I went from being an admin to a moderator to BANNED - it made me oh-so-sad.)

Anyway. Thought I'd let you know. =]
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
lba at 7:38PM, July 31, 2008
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I'm all for the idea of panels to do secondary judging. I'm just a bit concerned it might end up being the same three or four people doing all of it and it takes them forever to get through it.

If possible, it would probably be a good idea for me to either get that program from BlkKnight or send him the results I get myself. If we get as many votes as I think we might, I'd rather not try to compile the list by hand. Although, if necessary, I'll be more than willing to do it just to have a manual back up count.

I suppose it almost goes without saying that I'm willing to volunteer some time to help with panels.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
BlkKnight at 9:21PM, July 31, 2008
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lba
If possible, it would probably be a good idea for me to either get that program from BlkKnight or send him the results I get myself. If we get as many votes as I think we might, I'd rather not try to compile the list by hand. Although, if necessary, I'll be more than willing to do it just to have a manual back up count.

Umm…I'm probably the only member on DD that has a copy of SAS. So while I could give you the program, I doubt you'll have the means to run it. Would be interesting to find another SAS user here though.
That's “Dr. BlkKnight” to all of you.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:26AM
lba at 9:28PM, July 31, 2008
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Nope. Don't have SAS on my computer. But I've just got Amanda's email about what she wants with the ballots anyway, so it'll be taken care of. Gmail is just being goofy this week I guess.

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
Bocaj at 10:38PM, July 31, 2008
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I plugged it again in my comic this week, PQed amelius, and nominated a bunch of comics!
:D
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:32AM
usedbooks at 10:58PM, July 31, 2008
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My only request is that if a panel is used the “finalists/runners up” are posted somewhere at some point. I think they should be recognized – and it would give “bragging rights” to more people.

Maybe during the award presentations? (You could do it after the first tally is finalized, but people might try to sway the judges…)
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:37PM
Priest_Revan at 11:43PM, July 31, 2008
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amanda
Just as a heads up - I updated the ballot NOW since I wasn't sure if I'd be able to access my account later ^.^ (I went from being an admin to a moderator to BANNED - it made me oh-so-sad.)

Anyway. Thought I'd let you know. =]

I'm curious about the whole panel of judges thing.

Like, lets say… uh, I don't know… Purgatory Tower is nominated many times for best colour or something. Would something like that count as popularity or people actually thinking it is coloured well?
Updates Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday's (depends).

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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
DAJB at 12:56AM, Aug. 1, 2008
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Priest_Revan
Like, lets say… uh, I don't know… Purgatory Tower is nominated many times for best colour or something. Would something like that count as popularity or people actually thinking it is coloured well?
Both, but the popularity factor skews the actual award in its favour.

Let's assume there are two comics with colouring of a sufficiently high standard for its readers to consider nominating them in that category. One has 1,000 readers and one has 100. If, say, 10% of a comic's readers actually vote (and I suspect the percentage will be less), the comic with 1000 readers will get 100 votes while the comic with 100 readers will only get 10. The result is “fixed” in favour of the comic with the higher readership, even before the awards process begins.

A panel, on the other hand, can look at the colouring of both comics and, if the colouring in the comic with 100 readers is better, it can make the award on that basis even though it would probably have received less votes due to its lower “popularity”.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
Loud_G at 5:41AM, Aug. 1, 2008
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This is a great idea! I can't believe that I just found out about it!

I was a bit worried about the nominations too, because the small readership comics might only get one nomination (if that) while the large readership ones would get a bazillion. I hope, DAJB, that it will end up as you say, where the few nominations are enough to get on the ballot.

Otherwise it is just a popularity contest. (I wouldn't mind seeing several rounds, where everyone who is nominated gets a shot at moving to the next round.) But alas today is launch day, so its probably too late. :)
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:46PM
amanda at 5:43AM, Aug. 1, 2008
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The panel thing will only go into effect if I can rally enough people to volunteer. ^.^ Some things like “Most Friendly DDer” probably won't need a panel, though.

As for nominees/runners-up, they'll definitely get recognition. That's what the presentations are for ^.^ You can see the sample presentations from last year hERE - I think they're awesome, and I'd like to have something similar. If possible. We'll see ^.^
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
Rudolf at 7:25AM, Aug. 1, 2008
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I'd like to help with the panels if you need it.
I'm unbiased and I have a looooooooooot of time on my hand so let me know if I can help. I'd like to see these awards become successful so they can happen every year.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
trevoramueller at 8:14AM, Aug. 1, 2008
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Where do we find out the nominees?
My Drunk Duck Comics:


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last edited on July 14, 2011 4:33PM
smkinoshita at 8:23AM, Aug. 1, 2008
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I'm with DAJB all the way here. If we can scrounge up the volunteers in time, we might even want to vary the panel based on their areas of expertise.

I'd also like to pitch the idea of selecting panel judges for particular biases, and then constructing the panel in a way that balances everything out.

amanda
The panel thing will only go into effect if I can rally enough people to volunteer. ^.^

Ah, there's the rub. Amanda, if you accept me I will volunteer for the panel. Yes, that takes my comic out of the running for nominations but if boils down to a popularity contest I'm dead in the water anyway. If you're interested, I'll drop you a PQ with my biases so you know what you're getting.

Speaking of which, how publicly will the panel review the nominations? Will people be able to see the why and how things won, ala Reality TV where the panel of judges explain exactly why they say “Yes” or “No”? Or will it be more subtle?
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:49PM
amanda at 8:38AM, Aug. 1, 2008
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Great Rudolph! All the info will be posted in this thread, most likely - but we'll probably want to wait until the votes close to put people on panels/presentations.

Trevor, check back with DD Awards 2008 for all the good stuff. It will turn into a real “comic” with pages and everything once the voting is done.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
amanda at 8:41AM, Aug. 1, 2008
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Ninja'd by Smkinoshita! I don't think being on a panel would disqualify you from being nominated…but I wouldn't put you on a panel where your comic is up for an award ^.^

I'm totally cool with posting the reasoning behind the final choices - though I'd rather the focus be on who the nominees were and who ultimately took the title.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
smkinoshita at 8:47AM, Aug. 1, 2008
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Oh, and while this might be inviting a group of schoolchildren with armloads of “strike anywhere” matches to play at a swimming pool filled with gasoline…

… if you want to eliminate the ‘popular vote’ we could invite some Something Awful goons to act as a collaborative judging unit. If Something Awful posts what will surely be cruel, ripping reviews of the nominated comics and possibly (er… likely) a mockery of Drunk Duck itself, it will more than likely bring more traffic to DD and the awards itself. Granted, a good deal of the fame might be akin to being the “Star Wars Kid” but the rules would still require even the hate-filled ravenous mob of Goons to choose a winner from the nominees.

And the winning comics would have the dubious honour of being the equivalent of a horror movie survivor: Traumatized for life, bloody – but still alive. ;)

Definitely a double-edged sword but I thought I'd suggest it all the same. Besides, Chris Hastings of Dr. McNinja fame is a Goon himself.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:49PM
usedbooks at 8:52AM, Aug. 1, 2008
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smkinoshita
Amanda, if you accept me I will volunteer for the panel. Yes, that takes my comic out of the running for nominations
If judge panels are formed after the nominations are in and finalized, there's no need to be “disqualified.” People with nominated comics simply won't be on the panel for that category.

smkinoshita
Speaking of which, how publicly will the panel review the nominations? Will people be able to see the why and how things won, ala Reality TV where the panel of judges explain exactly why they say “Yes” or “No”? Or will it be more subtle?
Personally, I am strongly against “public” decisions. First, I think it's cheesy. (Oh God, how I hate TV “judge panels” – but that's a personal opinion.) Second, it would bias judges. Really good judges might refuse to volunteer because they don't want to be “in public eye” and reduce volunteers to just particularly outgoing and verbose – which are fine judges but it would skew opinion. Also, some judges would then be afraid to speak their mind, have to make sure they word things carefully, etc. That's a lot of pressure. It would hurt judging and dissuade volunteers. Even if they aren't walking on eggshells, the judges would most certainly alter their behavior unconsciously when in the public eye. (Maybe even be more harsh/man/sarcastic for the sake of entertainment.) Judges should be able to be judges without worrying about being “entertainers.”

Lastly, it could (okay, definitely WOULD) hurt the feelings of nominees. Even if all of them are fantastic and deserving, judges have to have reasons to pick some over others, and that could quickly ruin a more sensitive artist's day (even if the reasons are presented in as kind a way as possible). On DD, the general practice is that people don't offer criticism unless it is requested, and since other people are voting on these comics, some nominees might not be game for any inevitable negativity. – If, to combat this, you insist all nominees “accept” their nominations, then you will lose nominees, particularly the more “reclusive” DD members who simply might not respond – AND you'd have to wait to hear back from everyone, which would cause (much loathed) delays.

Keep in mind that “reality show” stars are there BY CHOICE. Not everyone with a good comic is a masochist. I think this whole thing should be a positive experience for all concerned. (I doubt I'd get nominated for anything, but if I did, I wouldn't want to be punished for it… They are supposed to be awards, after all. ;) )

amanda
I'm totally cool with posting the reasoning behind the final choices - though I'd rather the focus be on who the nominees were and who ultimately took the title.
It could be interesting to see the judges' thought processes, but if you post that, I would say to do so only well after the awards are presented and only on a side page (like maybe in a forum or something.) I still worry that it could change the judges' behavior if they knew/believed their remarks were going to be presented to the public, though… Possibly discuss the possibility with them only after judging? Maybe to post some parts of discussion with the specific judges permission?
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:37PM
Priest_Revan at 9:27AM, Aug. 1, 2008
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DAJB
Priest_Revan
Like, lets say… uh, I don't know… Purgatory Tower is nominated many times for best colour or something. Would something like that count as popularity or people actually thinking it is coloured well?
Both, but the popularity factor skews the actual award in its favour.

Let's assume there are two comics with colouring of a sufficiently high standard for its readers to consider nominating them in that category. One has 1,000 readers and one has 100. If, say, 10% of a comic's readers actually vote (and I suspect the percentage will be less), the comic with 1000 readers will get 100 votes while the comic with 100 readers will only get 10. The result is “fixed” in favour of the comic with the higher readership, even before the awards process begins.

A panel, on the other hand, can look at the colouring of both comics and, if the colouring in the comic with 100 readers is better, it can make the award on that basis even though it would probably have received less votes due to its lower “popularity”.

And obviously the judges will have an un-biased opinion, I'm sure.

Anyways, thanks for the help. No more confusion.

PS, I need to go vote.
Updates Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday's (depends).

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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
usedbooks at 10:39AM, Aug. 1, 2008
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Just fyi, I changed the PW ad campaign I had going. If we aren't doing a popular vote, we only need to run it during nominations, so I reduced the time frame and raised the bidding. ;)
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:37PM
lba at 1:33PM, Aug. 1, 2008
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I'm all for allowing the judges the chance to explain their reasoning. But I agree with usedbooks that it should be after or at the point the awards are handed out.

I think we can avoid bruising any nominees feelings if we were to avoid citing “so and so is better at depth of shading than ____ is.” Just focus on the strong points of the comic that won and explain what those strong points are rather than discussing it as a comparison against other comics. So long as we don't have a whole bunch of comparisons in the judge's notes, I don't think we would have too many problems. As long as the focus is on what the winner does well, I can't foresee too many issues with punishment or masochism.

Just don't make the award a critique is all and give them a applauding speech basically.

And so far, we seem to be getting a decent response, judging by the activity of my inbox. Hopefully, things will keep building.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
Priest_Revan at 7:50PM, Aug. 1, 2008
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Okay, I'm confused again. Are the Judges also deciding who wins or is that by popular vote?
Updates Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday's (depends).

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Offering Project Wonderful Ad space on my website.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
freakenburger at 8:16PM, Aug. 1, 2008
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Priest_Revan
Okay, I'm confused again. Are the Judges also deciding who wins or is that by popular vote?
I think that popular vote decides who gets nominated and then judges decide which nominated comic wins in order to prevent comics winning just 'cause they have more readers…
When Mireille Bouquet jumps into a lake, she doesn't get wet. The water gets Mireille Bouquet!

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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:30PM
usedbooks at 8:38PM, Aug. 1, 2008
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Yeah, the judges will choose from the top popular picks (aka “nominees” ) as decided by the ballots from this week.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:37PM

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