Drunk Duck Awards

DD Awards 2009 - Rules and Eligibility Discussion
amanda at 10:42AM, March 5, 2009
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Hello!

We should establish some rules for eligibility of comics AND panelists/judges.

I've written a short list that has little to do with due dates and timelines. That can come later. Feedback, amendments, additions are welcome - let's discuss and finalize!

Updated July 23, 2009.

The guidelines listed below are graven in stone ^.^

Comic Eligibility
1. Must have at least 10 pages not counting pinups and other filler.
2. Must be maintaining an update schedule (and not just posting filler) unless it's a new comic. (If every page has an author's note saying, “OMG, I actually updated!” or “Sorry this is a week late,” then it's pretty clear they're not keeping an update schedule. I personally think that the top five in each category can be checked out before being sent to panelists.)
3. Drunk Duck comics only. Double-hosted comics are fine. (Seriously, I shouldn't have to say this, but I do. You'd be shocked at some of the votes we got last year!)
4. A-rated comics qualify for Adult category only
5. Concerning previous winners:
a. Previous winners with currently updating comics are eligible.
b. Previous winners with comics completed AFTER August 2008 are eligible.
c. Previous winners with comics completed BEFORE August 2008 are NOT eligible.


Panelist/Judge Eligibility
1. Previous panelists are welcome to be panelists again but NOT in the same categories.
2. To apply, panelists must provide username, email address, and whether or not they are over 18. This is so we can communicate offline if there's another PQ meltdown like last year. Also, the age is important so we don't accidentally put underage people as judges for categories with mature or adult comics.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
amanda at 11:43AM, March 5, 2009
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Suggestions gleaned from the feedback thread:

*Pass the baton! Anyone else want to emcee? I'm definitely happy to hand the project over. Just be sure you have the time and ambition to do it! ^.^

*Comics should be judged on content produced since the 2008 Awards, not before.

*Comics should be primarily on DD, not just mirrored here. Creators should be active on DD - responding to comments, being on the boards, interacting, etc

*Panelists are responsible for determining the nominated comics' eligibility in a particular category. If the comic is deemed ineligible or a poor match, the next nominee is pulled up.

*Panelists should have a solid forum presence and good reputation

*Panelists, once a decision is made, should submit a short paragraph stating the reasons for choosing the winning comic.

*A private/hidden/offsite forum for panelists to engage in discussion

*Rein in some non-DD judges. Webcomic-oriented bloggers, off-site comic creators, etc.

*Rein in some non-DD presenters.

*Better ballot coding, site design, etc.

*Split best overall into best overall story and best overall strip

*Use the categories in the DD browse section

**FYI: I am not endorsing any of these suggestions, nor are they set in stone. Discuss!
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
JustNoPoint at 7:23PM, March 5, 2009
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Did we still want to use the forum I set up? This way panelists can have private forums to talk in.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
usedbooks at 8:10PM, March 5, 2009
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I have a judging/voting suggestion for this year to address some concerns from both years past by combining strategies.

The problem with the first year (popular vote to choose finalists and then popular vote for finalists) was that people voted for their favorite comics by name only without even looking at other very good comics, making the most popular/noticed comics win uncontested.

The biggest problem with last year's process was that by giving judging panels the final say, a select few had too much power over the winners and defining the category in their own way. Since judges were volunteers and panels were small, they weren't necessarily the “best” for choosing. Someone suggested voting on judges, but I'm not sure that would work out well since it would become a popularity issue (and because it is tough enough to get volunteers).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So… Here's my suggestion/idea.

~Nominations done by vote (of DD members only in order to verify the “one vote” thing) exactly as done before.
~The finalists, instead of simply choosing the top five or so highest voted nominees (as we did the previous two years), would be picked by judging committees.
~Winners would be chosen by popular vote of the judge-picked finalists.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pluses:
~Not a straight popular vote, so it would give less noticed comics a chance. (Possibly even more, since only one nomination could make a comic a finalist if the judging panel feels it's good enough.)
~Judges don't have as much power as before, so the general DD population will feel more control over the winner and have a greater chance to get involved.

Minuses:
~Two rounds of popular votes mean we need to do an extra good job spreading the word. It depends strongly on participation and interest. (Having many categories as opposed to few will help gain interest around the site. Also advertising and notifying the comics that are finalists.)
~Judges would have more comics they have to look at, so a bigger job to do. They will need more time. (Though after removing ineligible and out of category nominations, it might be feasible.) Since judges don't have the FINAL pick, they don't need to be as nitpicky.

Oh, and if there are too many nominees to make judging feasible, maybe make a set nomination limit? Like 3+ nominations required to qualify for judging? This might not work for smaller categories…

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think judging issues brought up last year would be offset by having more judges and a viewable discussion (like in JNP's forum?).

I'm just throwing it out there for consideration. I don't really personally prefer it over last year, but it might be one way to address the issues brought up about that system. (Please other people suggest alternative ways too!! )
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:37PM
amanda at 8:19AM, March 6, 2009
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JNP
Did we still want to use the forum I set up? This way panelists can have private forums to talk in.
I am all for the forum! The only downside is that it's off-site and might be a bit more difficult to get people over there.
Also, JNP, you had some interest in possibly emcee-ing the awards this year. You were kind of taking life in a new direction recently, so I'm not sure if you're still interested or not. ^.^
UsedBooks
The finalists, instead of simply choosing the top five or so highest voted nominees (as we did the previous two years), would be picked by judging committees.
That could work, but, like you said, the huge amount of time would be a turn off for most people. A lot of the panelists mentioned they didn't realize the amount of time just having five would take. We might find ourselves lacking a reasonable number of volunteers.
UsedBooks
Winners would be chosen by popular vote of the judge-picked finalists.
It's that pesky popular vote thing again ^.^ While I can see the benefits in this because the nominees will be handpicked… we're still back to popular votes. People will vote for comics they've heard of without bothering to check out the others.
UsedBooks
make a set nomination limit
Last year, I didn't put a comic into the finalists if it only had one vote. There's an overwhelming number of comics that were nominated by just one, so it would be impossible to just pick one.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
JustNoPoint at 8:32AM, March 6, 2009
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Amanda
I am all for the forum! The only downside is that it's off-site and might be a bit more difficult to get people over there.
Also, JNP, you had some interest in possibly emcee-ing the awards this year. You were kind of taking life in a new direction recently, so I'm not sure if you're still interested or not. ^.^

I seem to have balanced out a bit now. I could do it since I've made this whole “life schedule”. I'd just have less time for Street Fighter 4 :P

The forum could be totally optional. It just seems much better than last year where I was the conduit between the other judges. Members can still use that method. But having a private forum for each group of panelists to talk in would be much more convenient IMO

I wonder if the admins here could do that? Since the do have forum manipulation power. Would be much better if they could do it here.

EDIT: No matter what the popular vote thing will be an issue. Hopefully since no one can judge what they judged last year we won't hear about “that judge didn't even look at the other options and wouldn't discuss” again.

But this stuff can't be an exact science. The users that make friends and network best or just have a popular comic in general will get the popularity votes.

LOL let's have a sub contest as well were comics in the top 30 can't be voted for XD *not really*
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
usedbooks at 9:23AM, March 6, 2009
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amanda
It's that pesky popular vote thing again ^.^ While I can see the benefits in this because the nominees will be handpicked… we're still back to popular votes. People will vote for comics they've heard of without bothering to check out the others.
I agree with you there. I was trying to figure out a way to appease people. (I prefer the judging panels method to choose winners personally.)

I think with a more open/viewable discussion (like a forum) rather than PQs would fix most of the issues brought up last year. And having larger judging panels will help too.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:37PM
lba at 10:51AM, March 6, 2009
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I'm all for the use of a secondary forum. That would make 10x easier than coordinating through PQ's and email.

I like the idea of using a popular vote to determine from the finalists, but what if we did a sort of hybrid idea where we have judges go over the top 5 along with a vote and combine the two somehow to select a winner? The idea of comics with popularity winning is a big issue regardless of how we judge them.

I think we might need to address the issue of spam too. Last year a couple comics had to be disqualified for it, and while it hasn't been as big of an issue as it could be, we might want to figure out a way of culling the spam out without the emcee and assistant digging through it all by hand. The active DD userbase has grown since last year. If possible, I'd like to see if we can find a way for people without DD accounts to vote too. It kind of limits us severely in the scope and advertising for the awards if nobody else can be involved.

We should probably start talking with Platinum and outside judges soon here too. They're going to need a lot of time to do things on their end if we can get them to help us. I know a lot of the bigger creators out there have incredibly busy schedules, and the sooner we ask and give them a heads up, the more likely they are to agree.

I'm pretty much ok with taking on the same role I had last year. I'm more than willing to help out however I'm needed.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
usedbooks at 11:18AM, March 6, 2009
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lba
If possible, I'd like to see if we can find a way for people without DD accounts to vote too. It kind of limits us severely in the scope and advertising for the awards if nobody else can be involved.
I think that can be good, but we'd have a problem with fraud. It's hard to keep people from “stuffing the ballot box” whether we go by emails or IPs or whatever.

If we use judges (and not popular votes) to determine winners, it would be more feasible to let “outsiders” people get involved. But I'd be pretty against it if the finalists went up for a popular vote at all – because a few DD comics flood the internet with advertising, which skews popularity vs. quality even more, and comics with multiple mirrors would gain an advantage.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh! Another spontaneous brainstorm!

What if we did dual awards? Like when we get the list of finalists, we put them up for judging by panel and put them up for public voting. Then rather than trying to combine the results, we gave out two awards for each: A “people's choice” and a “judge's pick.” (We can combine them in single presentation for the "awards ceremony to keep things from getting crazy.)

Then popular comics can receive recognition for their popularity (which does count for something) and other comics can be recognized by the judging process of their comic as a whole.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:37PM
amanda at 11:26AM, March 6, 2009
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I definitely agree that a forum is the way to go with judging and discussions rather than email/PQ. Definitely.

The spam is going to be hard to avoid. Culling by hand was the best solution I found last year. It was pretty easy to tell when you had double-votes and spam votes. If we're able to get a more talented coder in here to fix some of the issues - maybe we could track IPs or somehow disable the ability to vote twice from the same computer…
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
lba at 2:07PM, March 6, 2009
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That's the thing we really need most, is a good coder. Blknight can't be expected to handle all of the coding work. It's a long shot, but you might try asking volte to do a little bit of a ballot form on the side for us. No guarantee he's got time, but he does have the skills.

I'm liking the idea of dual awards. It would be a lot of extra work to count the ballots again, but I think it would be more than enough to satisfy the critics. It saves the effort of trying to come up with some system to combine the two. I just wouldn't want to run into a situation where we find out that both the awards for each category are won by the same comic for most of the time.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
JustNoPoint at 2:11PM, March 6, 2009
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I'll contact a coder I know. Maybe he can help out. Don't stop looking for coders though.

EDIT: Before I do let's make a clear cut list of what we would like to be coded.

Being able to add/subtract categories.
IP tracking
Not allowing the same IP to vote more than once.
Did we want to let people outside of DD vote?
The ability to type in the name of the comic to be voted for.

Would we have to have a place for them to type their email and confirm they exist?

What else are we needing?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
usedbooks at 2:30PM, March 6, 2009
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lba
I just wouldn't want to run into a situation where we find out that both the awards for each category are won by the same comic for most of the time.
Actually, that wouldn't bother me. Comics that achieve that deserve the bragging rights. ;) (If it does happen most of the time, we can validate just doing things one way or the other in the future – addressing the critics of either method.)
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:37PM
amanda at 5:56PM, March 6, 2009
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My coding wishlist:
tracking IPs
not allowing the same IP to vote twice
freeform text boxes for votes
simple, no frills design
form results in simple format sent via email to one or more (lba and I got them last year)

The form results were like:
action: Devon Legacy
romance: The Dreamer

and so on.

I would NOT like to allow non-registered people to vote. These are the Drunk Duck Awards - honoring DD comics… and I think they should be chosen by DD readers, too.

last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
amanda at 5:58PM, March 6, 2009
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Also, just an FYI.
I still have all the information from last year's awards in spreadsheet form - nominees, winners, panelists, and presenters.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
lba at 6:29PM, March 6, 2009
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I'll toss in a request for all the info being placed into one email if it's possible. It was pain in the butt digging through my inbox for all the different emails with the reuslts.

Would it be a good idea for them to have to confirm their email from their inbox before the ballot gets tallied?

I'm not too overly invested in the idea of letting non-DD people vote, but I'd still like to think of a way to involve people outside of DD. I think we should use this as an opportunity to help the comics who win gain some readership since we can't give them a real trophy or anything.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
JustNoPoint at 8:59PM, March 6, 2009
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You know, if we can find a mod that would make it so guests can post in a topic and after they post they cannot see the post (or the ones before and after) we may be able to do it like that.

If there is a mod like that we can just make a template that guests can copy paste and fill out.

I'll take a look tomorrow (need sleep)

This way admins of the forum could just look through the post. Track IPs, etc
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
dragonrider at 9:06AM, March 7, 2009
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IMNEVERHO, No one but DD votes, these are the best of the best of DD, not Smack something or other. I also agree with the active primary site, however how about having posted more than once in the past 30 days something like once a month for the past 6 months? I can think of 6 comics off hand that could post a page, and hands down run in the top finalish even though they havent posted for almost a year. Agree no judging the same as last year, I have become active on a couple I judged last year. PLEASE the forum, the email last year was horrible way to communicate. And Amanda anything I can do to help this year.. scream, throw a belaying pin or something..
EDIT You need to press gang some of the slackers in to work this; these forumns have very few people posting, and it's the same people posting in each one.
Do NOT meddle in the affairs of Dragons. Because, YOU are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:16PM
JustNoPoint at 10:31AM, March 7, 2009
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The forum was made last year so if everyone decides to use it it'll be there. :)

http://www.justnopoint.com/drunkduck/forum/index.php

Currently seeing if my friend can make a mod for it where there will be a topic and guests can fill out the list of options. Each reply would be one after another so it would be easy for me, Amanda, lba, etc to go through them.

No one could see the posts but those with permission to do so.

Still in talks with him though, but if he can make it I think it'd work well enough.

Or would the results HAVE to be emailed?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
amanda at 1:42PM, March 7, 2009
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I'm open for any new method of voting/nominating, JNP.
The form I made last year was just a basic one that emailed results - mostly because that's the most advanced thing I could figure out ^.^

Dragon, I completely agree on the rule about having more active than just once in the last 30 days. Maybe we should go with - “maintains an update schedule.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:51AM
lba at 1:46PM, March 7, 2009
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Definitely needs to be “maintains update schedule”. I think we were all just kind of assuming that was what “updated in the last 30 days” meant anyway.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
JustNoPoint at 3:11PM, March 7, 2009
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Maintain Update Schedule shouldn't be too too strict though either.

Miss an update, or are late a day and no nomination? But I'm sure you didn't mean something like that.

But a set # still should be set just in case there is a discrepancy.
“Hey why did that comic get in but mine didn't? I updated more than they did!”

Some people don't even have an actual schedule. They just update.

So something along the lines of 3 updates a month for the past 2 months?
And again, we (me, Amanda, lba) would have to look through the comics to check all this! So be careful cause it could over complicate an already kinda complicated process…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
dragonrider at 3:36PM, March 7, 2009
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Someone
So something along the lines of 3 updates a month for the past 2 months?
And again, we (me, Amanda, lba) would have to look through the comics to check all this! So be careful cause it could over complicate an already kinda complicated process…
Kinda the reason I suggested a 1 a month for 6 months, three might push some people..right now HarryQ is having a H of a time keeping an e/o wk schedule as he is now working under a deadline on a pay for illustrations comic he is working on.
Do NOT meddle in the affairs of Dragons. Because, YOU are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:16PM
BffSatan at 4:09PM, March 7, 2009
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I think the rule about a comic that keeps an update schedule is a little unfair to a comic that might have started and ended this year, I'm sure there are a few good stories that have done this.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
usedbooks at 4:21PM, March 7, 2009
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BffSatan
I think the rule about a comic that keeps an update schedule is a little unfair to a comic that might have started and ended this year, I'm sure there are a few good stories that have done this.
Completed comics are allowed. Amanda just forgot to put that on the list (except concerning previous winners). ;)

The updating rule is just to disqualify abandoned comics, partly because their creators wouldn't care about or see the awards or benefit from any publicity.

How about:
“2. Must be either completed or actively updating at least once a month.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:37PM
lba at 9:28PM, March 7, 2009
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I think that's reasonable. It would also make it easier to check if it's updated recently than checking for a consistent weekly schedule or whatever.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
dragonrider at 6:12PM, March 9, 2009
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Used Books
How about:
“2. Must be either completed or actively updating at least once a month.”

Sounds like what I was looking for..works for me.
Do NOT meddle in the affairs of Dragons. Because, YOU are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:16PM
JustNoPoint at 10:46AM, March 13, 2009
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I just got a response from Valodim. Clicking the link shows what he's contributed to smf.
I know him through his site The Mugen Fighters Guild.

He says he'll do it. ^_^ I'm sure he'll be able to pull this off.

If so all the votes will be set up in forum post manner for those with permission to thumb through them with ease. IPs are tracked, etc

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
DarkChibiShadow at 5:32PM, March 19, 2009
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Oh, I guess I'll try being a panelist again this year too.

Amanda said I was pretty helpful with presenting the award since I was pretty quick, so I can usually be a back-up for that.

Ack! I just should like I'm rambling again, but I think I'll definatly try to sign up again this year.

<3

(Can't believe I kept forgeting to put that nom. up…)

K.A.L.A-dan! Shipper!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:07PM
lastcall at 6:03PM, March 19, 2009
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OK this whole DD Award thing is new to me and I apologize if this question is in the wrong thread: How exactly do we submit our comic for nomination? Do we need to be nominated by one of our fellow DD peers or something?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:28PM

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