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Deadpool and the changes though the time.
Mr Kaos at 11:23AM, April 6, 2010
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I just read the three first classic Deadpool TPBs and did enjoy to read about him and is amazed how they can keep up to write Deadpool's dialog. xD
and then the X-men legends 2 and Marvel Alliance games. i did love how he did talk to the heroes. i did like this one in Marvel Alliance. “What? I want my mommy! I want my lawyer! I want my lawyer's mommy!” heh.
not hard to like him.

But even so.. i don't know much about him to be honest. But i saw one of the posts in here that people didn't approve of the changes that Deadpool went though on the lately.. someone would tell me what changes he did went though and why is it bad? Is it alot worser than the Spider-man one?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
Amelius at 2:00PM, April 6, 2010
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Hehe, well I think that's my post you're remembering :) I'll try and keep it as rant-free as possible, but since Deadpool was the first mainstream comics character I really got into and I was pretty attached to the character, needless to say I was rather, um, passionately upset about the major changes! That's not just any Deadpool in my avatar, that's fan-made pipecleaner Deadpool made with fan love!

okeedokee, firstofall, you've got the good stuff with classic, and Cable & Deadpool is great (if you can stand Cable, who's a bit of a mary sue) and all other appearances (like his second Great Lakes Avengers cross-over) up to “Deadpool vs the Marvel Universe”, which was the wrap-up of the cancellation of Cable & Deadpool, all terrific stuff. Deadpool in the games was spot-on, there's also some awesome Deadpool in the animated “Hulk versus Wolverine”. However, Marvel canceled the good series to bring in a new writer, and it wasn't good at all. The ongoing series “Wolverine: Origins” was this new writer's debut on writing Deadpool. It was…bad. but I, like many other fans, gave him a chance to shape up on the actual DP series. I was disappointed.


So here's a list of what Daniel Way, the new writer, kept:

1.His costume.
2.Regeneration.
3.His loquacity.


He got rid of:

1.Comic awareness Deadpool was infamous for breaking the fourth wall.
2.Teleportation Owned a number of teleportation devices
3.Ninja skills he only uses guns now, and stands around a lot
4. Unpredictability (being “random” does not count)
5. Intelligence drinks from a bottle clearly labeled “poison” and other things just as “smart”.
6. Competence. seriously, he just blunders into things, gets kidnapped, arrested, can't pull off a simple merc job. He took on the Hulk and survived and now Tiger shark can kick his butt? So ridiculous…
7. Best friend Weasel and other supporting cast like Agent X and Outlaw.
8. Holographic disguises not that big a deal however.
9. Personality oh boy is this one a biggie, I oughtn't get into that now!
10. Humorous dialogue Let's just say, after Kelly and others, it leaves a LOT to be desired. Most of the good jokes are rehashed from better days.
11.His dark, angry brooding side whenever someone mentions his past(Workshop). Now he “ansgsts”
12. His desire to make something of himself. To be a hero for once. And his geeky hero worship on top of that.
13. Genre-savvy: nope, along with his comic awareness, he's completely clueless now.
14. Long-standing running gags the fact that he's wearing Ms. Marvel's yellow panties, Bea Arthur, among others…
and there's more…

And what he's brought to the table with no explanations for whatsoever:
1. 2 dialogue captions, or “voices” which he talks to endlessly.
2. “Pool-o-vision”, annoying hallucinations that are rarely funny and just an excuse to draw product mascots and pop star cameos. A weak replacement for Deadpool's infamous snarky pop-culture references and put-downs.

And add some suicidal wangst, and that's the problem in a nutshell.

Worst of all, Way doesn't get that “Merc with a Mouth” doesn't mean he's constantly spouting nonsense to himself, it means he's a smartmouth. He talks smack about who he's fighting. He makes “yo mama” jokes with Spiderman. The difference is Deadpool is like an insult comedian, and Way writes him like a big dumb jock who picks on nerds. There's no finesse, no wit! Sure, Deadpool used to always ramble on, but what he said was actually funny and you got the impression he was doing it to be annoying, not because he physically can't help it. And Deadpool himself isn't even talking that much lately either, it's those #$% annoying dialogue captions going back and forth constantly. No matter what he says, they say something afterward like an echo.

As bad as Spiderman though…One More Day was a huge character derailment, but the thing it has going for it is even with that massive retcon, they at least explained the derailment. Way has offered up no explanations to any of the major changes he made, and even said he wasn't going to bring any of DP's supporting cast except for Bob (because let's face it, Bob is easier to write) and my favorite DP friend, Weasel, has yet to be seen.

So to sum up why it's bad, it's because it's huge character derailment paired with really weak writing. I'm not happy with bringing a character back with major changes but I could put up with it if there'd been some explanation and some actually great writing, but sadly that is asking too much! To his credit, Daniel Way has ideas that for all intents and purposes SHOULD be AWESOME, but because he's such a terrible writer, they fall way short of the mark.

last edited on July 14, 2011 10:52AM
same at 3:21PM, April 6, 2010
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:20PM
Mr Kaos at 10:04PM, April 6, 2010
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Thanks Amelius to reply so fast.
Ah now i understand that deal alot better now.
Such a shame to hear that the changes were for the worser. really a shame.


Perhaps there will come a new writer who will re-do Deadpool.. who knows?

Ok. i will look into Deadpool and Cable ones.

heh thanks Same for the link.

again thanks for clearing it up for me.:)
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
Kroatz at 3:49AM, April 7, 2010
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Hehe, I knew Amelius would immediately snap at this. I agree with her on most parts though, I just think that the ‘New’ Deadpool has his qualities too… I can't say I've read every deadpool comic there is but I think the seversl voices within Deadpool are pretty funny at times, to me it beats the Bea Arthur jokes, the Voices are overused though.

On every other point I completely agree.
Comidion.deviantart.com
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:23PM
Mr Kaos at 1:15PM, April 8, 2010
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Well i guess the Daniel way. (ya gotta to kidding me? Way as a last name? xD damn he must be tired to hear jokes about that.) won't be in Deadpool comics forever.. so perhaps A new writer will change Deadpool. back or at least change enough to be more likable.

Just don't get it why Marvel people do allow huge changes.. it is like they don't care about their readers.. O.o
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
Air Raid Robertson at 9:08PM, April 8, 2010
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To be perfectly honest with all of you, I actually like Daniel Way's writing on the recent Deadpool ongoing. It was touch and go at first, but I think he's really grown into the character in the recent issues. I like that he's brought back the occasional fourth wall breakage without going overboard with it. (I hate it when people do too much with the metafictional stuff) And, I really like the concept of having rival first person narrative captions arguing with each other.

I know some of the old-guard Deadpool fans are unhappy. But, well, I can't help but smile when Deadpool and Bob: Agent of Hydra decide to be pirates. Or, when Deadpool attempts to join the X-Men with a homemade costume. I even liked Deadpool's dalliance with Hitmonkey and his ridiculous fight with Bullseye wearing a shoddy Hawkeye costume.

However, I can't say that I like the art all that much. Then again, I don't think Deadpool has ever been an exceptionally well-drawn comic book.

I think the main problem with Deadpool is that there's too much of him. In addition to Way's book, there's also Deadpool: Merc With a Mouth, Deadpool Team-Up, Deadpool Corps, and a plethora of minis and one-shots. It's getting to be a little too much.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:48AM
The Gravekeeper at 11:40AM, April 11, 2010
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Okay, so I picked up a collection of the very first appearances of Deadpool to use as a reference for an art project and…well, they're not the same character. Sure, they look the same and have the same name, but the personalities are completely difference.

Yeah, Deadpool started out as a Deathstrike knockoff complete with that typical “dark humour” and brooding that every comic book character possessed during the early 90's. As for the art, while the new stuff isn't the most dazzling comic art I've ever seen, it's much, much better than Deadpool's first appearance. He had such teeny, tiny feet, but at least he was one of the rare characters in a Liefeld book with eyes.

@Kaos: if you think the changes to Deadpool are problematic, just look at any appearance of Dr. Doom. The arguments about whether or not it's actually Doom or just a Doombot because it doesn't fit with that person's favorite interpretation of the character are legendary. Even the writers fight over whose Doom is the real one! The decision to change Deadpool from a rather bland brooding mercenary to the comedic sociopath we know and love is what saved the character, so not all major changes are bad.

At any rate, as long as Deadpool remains a successful series there will be new writers over the years. Such is the life of every major comic superhero. Who knows? Maybe someone will come up with another truly awesome interpretation of him again.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:14PM
Mr Kaos at 12:44PM, April 12, 2010
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Dr. Doom.. yes. i did hear alot about that with doombots and such which did annoy the fans alot. hmm not a bad comparsion. (sorry the spelling)

to be honest.. i am abit confused if i should read the new ones or just the old ones. Oh well i will find out. thanks guys for replying in this tread. it did give me something to think about.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 1:07PM, April 15, 2010
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Obviously I'm going to agree with Amelius on this one. The current deadpool is really just a crappy attempt to make the character better known before the DP movie comes out and so they've really just given the character to a bunch of writters who are more then happy to cave to exective meddling so they can involve him in all of the current Marvel Mega events without the hastle they had to go through with for example JMS on Spiderman who fought them tooth and nail on One More Day when he got told he had to write a story where spiderman gets divorced via demonic contract. Most of the current writters are not exactly inspired so much as people the editors can rely on to do what they are told and I feel that really shows in the writing and the weak story arcs when DP isnt' wrapped up the latest event tie in.

If you want a sample of good deadpool but don't want to break the bank I suggest the Great Lakes Avengers/Deadpool summer fun special as that is the Deadpool who appeals to me and can be read as a stand alone issue letting you get a feel for things.

I'd recomend the following to a fan who wants to get into DP:

Classic Deadpool Vol 1-3 (4-X are not out yet) (Covers the first two dead pool mini-series which is a great into to the character. Later volumes get into his original running series which dives more deeply into his character and back story. Sometimes a bit more heavy and character and plot then other incarnations of deadpool but good stuff.)

All of Cable and Deadpool, I could list specific volumes I thought were better then others but to be honest since the series does employ some running storylines, jokes and character development you are best off just starting at the start. However hands down the final Volume Deadpool vs the Marvel Universe is the best.

GLI/Deadpool Summer Fun Special as previously mentioned

Deadpool 900 - Although more of the D.Way Deadpool then classic it features both new and old writers of Deadpool alike and lets you get a feel for which you enjoy more.

Amazing Spiderman #611 - A really great and fairly recent issue that can be read on its own in which Deadpool fights Spiderman. It is well written and hilarious.

Deadpool Team Up - If you are going ignore my other suggestions and pick up a new book I recommend starting this with this one. As a team up book it is easy to pick up without having to worry about what happened last issue and the writting is better then in most of the current DP series. Not as good as classic stuff but not as weak as some of the new stuff.

Marvel Ultimate Alliance - Deadpool is fairly well represented. I wouldn't play the games for his character but if I was playing them I'd certainly play as Deadpool.

Hulk vs - Deadpool is pretty spot on in the short Hulk vs Wolverine.

Things I do not recomend include:

Current Deadpool series/Merc With a Mouth - Lackluster one note “Its so wacky it just works”. It really feels like someone read Dr. McNinja and said “people like this? Why anyone could do this. I'll do this.” and then didn't put the effort of wit into things that McNinja is known for. Worse the plots are sooo weak. Deadpool seems to get himself captured like every issue and that character development is pretty lame.

Deadpool Suicide Kings - The least of the offenders on my list but still very weak for reasons similar to

Deadpool Corps - Simply to much of a good thing. It like most of the recent DP runs on the theory the wacky automatically equals amazing and that the best thing to do is just poor as much “wackiness” as you can into DP. The problem with this is they streach wacky pretty thin and when everything is wacky it becomes no big deal. Again not as bad of the main series but still not very good.

Ultimate Deadpool - Suuuuuuuuuuuuucks! DP in name only.

Exiles Deadpool/Age of Apocalypse - I actually like both these series but in this universe deadpool is just a mook with guns and has a totally different personality that isn't well developed. Not worth picking up just for the Pool'.

Notes:

I have not read Deadpool's recent stint in the Messiah War over in the X-titles so I can't say if that is any good nor have I read the reconed reboot Agency-X though I did really enjoy it when those characters were added to Cabel and Deadpool so I would give Agency-X a chance if it was a trade for purchase.

Head or unDeadpool in Marvel zombies 3 was great but he is hardly even in it and 4 wasn't very good.

Deadpool is being pushed very hard by Marvel and will appear in upcoming series like Hulked out Heroes and Deadpool: Wade Wilson's War so it isn't as though you are going to be missing your chance to read the character if you read the classic stuff first.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
ozoneocean at 3:05AM, April 16, 2010
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Evil Emperor Nick
But… you're evil. Why should we believe you >_>
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:36PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 6:29AM, April 16, 2010
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If I said I was Honest Nick you would know I was almost certainly lying because that is the sort of thing a liar would say, I haven’t' proved my honesty at all quite the opposite in fact. However by telling you right out I'm evil I've proved not only that I'm honest because that isn’t the sort of thing a liar would volunteer. Also since I’m announcing myself as the Evil Emperor I clearly have no need to deceive the masses as to myself and my intentions prior to my inevitable conquest ergo again my actions speak to the truthiness of my character not in spite but rather because of malicious imperialism.

Also because I've read a lot of Deadpool and to see the best Deadpool possible being printed by Marvel.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
DrLuck at 11:22AM, April 18, 2010
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Oh man, thanks for the list on Deadpool books. I always get weary now when I go to pick one up. So far, I'm working on getting all the Cable & Deadpool (though I generally just skim through Cable parts). I really wanna get my hands on the classic Deadpool stuff.

I love fourth wall jokes, so getting rid of that made me not want to touch the character anymore.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:17PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 6:12AM, April 19, 2010
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DrLuck
Oh man, thanks for the list on Deadpool books. I always get weary now when I go to pick one up. So far, I'm working on getting all the Cable & Deadpool (though I generally just skim through Cable parts). I really wanna get my hands on the classic Deadpool stuff.

I love fourth wall jokes, so getting rid of that made me not want to touch the character anymore.

You are welcome. I pretty much just skipeed thed Cable parts too. I always felt Cable was a big Mary Sue and that Deadpool carried the book. Luckily Cable had a habit of being abucted into the X-crossovers so sometimes Deadpool got to run off with the book while Cable was elsewhere in the Marvel Universe.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
ImaginaryGirl at 11:10AM, April 19, 2010
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Sniff. But I loved it when he broke the fourth wall! Think of the children! think of the little yellow boxes! One of the major reasons I loved Deadpool was because he poked fun at the Marvel universe. I mean, they had an entire issue of him beating the ever loving crap out of all of Marvel's lamest villains.

Also, I remember Ultimate Deadpool from Ultimate Spidey. My. God. How could they have done that? ImaginaryGirl SMASH!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:57PM
mlai at 6:28PM, April 19, 2010
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Cable a big Mary Sue? I wouldn't be surprised after playing MvC2.
My only exposure to Deadpool is that 4-issue miniseries drawn by Joe Mad, The Circle Chase. Was that a good representation of “classic” Deadpool?

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 7:00AM, April 21, 2010
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Mlai: Yes circle chase is great and that is basically the real start of Deadpool. Prior to that he was only a minion character popping up as a one issue villian,sort like the difference between when Adam Warlock showed up the pages of the Fantastic Four as HIM vs when he was given his own series. Circle Chase really was the first series to establish Deadpool as a character adding his side kick Weasle, hinting at much of his back story but leaving it vague for future writters and expanding on his previously established character traits etc. etc. Some didn't take like the would be arch-rival Slayback whom was never seen again after Circle Chase but for the most part Circle Chase established the core of who Deadpool is for all later series prior to the character regression/degeneration that started after Cabel and Deadpool was cancled in favor of the new direction they decided to go with in the new Deadpool series, Merc with Mouth, Deadpool Corps and the other various spin offs going on right now.

ImaginaryGirl : I'm right there with you.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
Hawk at 3:02PM, April 21, 2010
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Okay, now I've heard very conflicting opinions on Deadpool. I have no first-hand experience. I've never read any of his comic books, and I haven't even seen the Wolverine movie (which I probably shouldn't).

One of the few things I knew about him was that he was designed by industry joke Rob Liefeld. So I had to ask a Deadpool fan why there was all this love for a character created by such a panned artist.

This person told me that Liefeld's early Deadpool was a Deathstroke ripoff and a very stereotypical hero with little originality. But then, subsequent writers were the ones who added the quirks and personality that people loved, including the sarcasm and comic metahumor.

Now, was the person I was talking to wrong, or is the much-loved Deadpool written by a person in between Liefeld and Daniel Way?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
Amelius at 4:53PM, April 21, 2010
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The person you talked to was mostly right about his origins (other than him being a hero, he was just a generic mook at the time) but they didn't mention Fabian Nicieza was the co-creator, and he's the one who really developed him (Liefeld just drew him, tiny feet and all). After about 5 or 6 random cameos in other Marvel books, Fabian and Joe Mad got together and made “Circle Chase”, which was the template that Mark Waid followed up with in the limited “Sins of the Past” until DP's first ongoing monthly title, written by Joe Kelly. Any DP fan worth his salt will tell you Joe Kelly was the one to really establish the character and flesh him out. Kelly gave us the slapstick, the fourth-wall breaking, and some very dark stories delving into his backstory.
Gail Simone is said to have had a good run, but Christopher Priest (who said he didn't get the character himself and calls him Joe Kelly's character)usually gets a negative reaction for some of the changes (a dumber Deadpool and heaping helpings of metahumor!) but from what I've seen, as opposed to the new writers he was actually funny. He even admitted that he didn't get the character and left the series.

Years later, Cable and Deadpool saw the character once again in the hands of his co-creator Fabian Nicieza. He obviously took a few pointers from Kelly's books, but Wade Wilson was tempered slightly by the presence of Cable as a sort of know-it-all older brother trying to keep him in line. When the series was canceled, we saw possibly the best Deadpool book ever, Deadpool Vs. the Marvel Universe, as the last hurrah of C&D. They left DP on a high note, and when there was talk of a new DP series, this is what DP fans were expecting to see.

So definitely yes, the real Deadpool is sandwiched in between the immemorable introduction of a forgettable mook/Deathstroke-wannabe from 20 years ago and the poorly written impostor that Daniel Way claims to be Deadpool. He had a rough start, but being a Liefeld creation doesn't excuse Way for writing crap. Given the choice, I'd rather DP be drawn by Liefeld forever than ever written by Daniel Way again.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:52AM
The Gravekeeper at 4:57PM, April 21, 2010
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Hawk
Okay, now I've heard very conflicting opinions on Deadpool. I have no first-hand experience. I've never read any of his comic books, and I haven't even seen the Wolverine movie (which I probably shouldn't).

One of the few things I knew about him was that he was designed by industry joke Rob Liefeld. So I had to ask a Deadpool fan why there was all this love for a character created by such a panned artist.

This person told me that Liefeld's early Deadpool was a Deathstroke ripoff and a very stereotypical hero with little originality. But then, subsequent writers were the ones who added the quirks and personality that people loved, including the sarcasm and comic metahumor.

Now, was the person I was talking to wrong, or is the much-loved Deadpool written by a person in between Liefeld and Daniel Way?

Deadpool's beloved personality came about after Liefeld. Liefeld's creation was, indeed, bland, forgettable and cliche-ridden. He was a very typical 90's superhero and would have been forgotten like the majority of other chracters from that time if someone hadn't decided to take advantage of the fact that he was obscure in order to poke a little fun at the comics industry. I mean, they honestly thought the series was going to be cancelled in a few issues, so they figured “hey, we can get away with pretty much anything since no one's really paying attention.” So yeah, any Deadpool comics before 1997 don't have the character as we know him now. They have…someone else. Someone who isn't very interesting to read about and has really, really tiny spade-shaped feet.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:14PM
mlai at 8:45PM, April 21, 2010
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Evil Emperor Nick
Mlai: Yes circle chase is great and that is basically the real start of Deadpool.
Oh good, then at least some of the comics I bought from that era are worth some money.

Some didn't take like the would be arch-rival Slayback whom was never seen again after Circle Chase but for the most part Circle Chase established the core
Oh no. Slayback is dead. Deadpool totally killed him really dead. I'm glad you're telling me that Slayback stayed dead. I effin' hate how comics always bring back obscure villain that a good writer used and then killed to good effect, and then because the readers liked that, the editors then felt compelled to bring back the now-slightly-less-obscure villain, completely negating the fact that we liked him because he died well and served the story.

Case in point: Bloodscream, a vampire that Wolverine killed in spectacular fashion in a piece of dramatic poetry masquerading as a comic book, by the awesome Kubert. Then, Marvel brought him back to life. F U Marvel.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 7:22AM, April 22, 2010
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mlai
Oh no. Slayback is dead. Deadpool totally killed him really dead. I'm glad you're telling me that Slayback stayed dead. I effin' hate how comics always bring back obscure villain that a good writer used and then killed to good effect, and then because the readers liked that, the editors then felt compelled to bring back the now-slightly-less-obscure villain, completely negating the fact that we liked him because he died well and served the story.

Case in point: Bloodscream, a vampire that Wolverine killed in spectacular fashion in a piece of dramatic poetry masquerading as a comic book, by the awesome Kubert. Then, Marvel brought him back to life. F U Marvel.

While I certainly agree with that sentiment I was simply trying to avoid giving any spoilers.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
Hawk at 9:30AM, April 22, 2010
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Thanks, Amelius and The Gravekeeper. That actually clarifies things for me quite a bit. I actually might not mind reading a few Deadpool comics to see what all the commotion's about. And I have some good recommendations right here.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
EssayBee at 10:50AM, April 22, 2010
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Glad to see this topic. I've been a bit curious about Deadpool ever since someone commented that my character Fusion was like a teenage fangirl version of Deadpool. I'll have to give a few of the books recommended here a read.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:22PM
shirkersama at 4:11PM, April 23, 2010
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I was going to go on a rant here but really everything I was going to say has been said. Way has gotten a little better and may one day be a decent writer, but for now their just not up to writing Deadpool (who is clearly second only to Rorschach in the comic universe).
And Fusion does remind me of Deadpool sometimes, EssayBee…I really need to start reading your comic again. ><
Meh
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:34PM
Product Placement at 8:05PM, April 23, 2010
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I have a confession to make.

I had no idea who Deadpool was until recently. When I first saw a picture of him, I thought he was some sort of Bullseye clone but that was the impression I got because he was carrying guns.

Man was I wrong when I read through the first story with him. Still haven't read much about him but I wanted to come clean and unburden this terrible sin.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:52PM
The Gravekeeper at 9:15AM, April 25, 2010
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Product Placement
I have a confession to make.

I had no idea who Deadpool was until recently. When I first saw a picture of him, I thought he was some sort of Bullseye clone but that was the impression I got because he was carrying guns.

Man was I wrong when I read through the first story with him. Still haven't read much about him but I wanted to come clean and unburden this terrible sin.

Don't feel so bad. He's pretty much completely unknown to just about everyone (no, not even his “cameo” in Wolverine:Origins did much to get him more publicity; his own movie will probably help a lot with that).
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:14PM
same at 8:36AM, April 29, 2010
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I have an even bigger confession. I dont know much about Deadpool. But I want to. A friend in college may lend me a few issues of his that are lying around in his garage. So im gonna lend him my first issue of ultimate xmen from 2003 that ive kept in near mint. Ok well not near mint but its in good shape. Doesnt even seem 7 years old. Possibly also spider carnage and an old issue of 2000AD.

Currently reading deadpool and cable. I love it.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:20PM

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