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ozoneocean at 12:54AM, June 10, 2008
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SpANG
Richard Dawkins.
THAT'S right! :)
She married that guy…

Yeah, I didn't remember too well.
—-

Mary Tamm was VERY hot. They weren't as close though in the show. Didn't her Romana become a man at one point?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
BlueFlame_Studios at 3:55AM, June 10, 2008
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Now that we're speaking of the old companions, remember Elisabeth Sladen? She had a show last year called The Sarah Jane Adventures it was marketed towards a younger audience but I'm pretty sure people of age have watched it.

So what do you think of that show, if you have seen it?

I personally thought it was missing something, not sure what it was but it was missing something. Out of a score of 5, I'd give it a 3.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
ozoneocean at 3:59AM, June 10, 2008
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Sarah Jane… Wasn't there already a spin-off with her in it? Her and K-9? That was pretty cool ^^

I haven't seen the new thing though…

——–
“people of age” HA! Whipper-snapper :gem:
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
BlueFlame_Studios at 3:32PM, June 10, 2008
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Yeah, it was called K-9 and Company.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
SpANG at 4:54AM, June 11, 2008
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Now this is eighties!

The whole first episode is on you tube if you have the patience to sit through it. But I have to tell ya, it's horrible. I'm pretty sure it was not picked up after this pilot.

The Sara Jane adventures are okay. But they keep using the Slitheen, which is the worst F'ing characters they ever came up with for the new Dr Who series in my opinion.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
BlueFlame_Studios at 3:03AM, June 12, 2008
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Yeah, it only had one episode. Thank God.

They made the Slitheen in The Sarah Jane Adventures boring. Those Slitheen, in my opinion, sucked.

Though, I did like the Slitheen in Doctor Who Series 1.

Now here's another topic out of all the old school villains, who would win between The Daleks, The Cybermen, and The Sontarans?


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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Evil Emperor Nick at 10:15AM, June 12, 2008
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I'm going to go against the grain here and said while I to really enjoy Tennant I dislike the new series a lot.

I really loath both Donna & Rose and while Martha was okay they never gave her any good parts. I really long for the assistants whom actually brough something to the table like Romana, The Brigader(SP)[even if he wasn't exactly a companion, Leela, Ace or even K-9 for that matter. The current assistants come off as Mary Sue's who magically save the day once in while inspite of themselves and only exist to give the doctor someone to explain things to so he isn't talking to himself like a lunatic to inform the audiance of what he is doing.

The series was hit or miss with but after the way they handled the master I just had enough. As good as Jacobi was as the Master I just found Simm's to be silly which would okay if he was still threatening but he was just annoying and not very interesting and I have since stopped watching the series to no regrets.

They NEVER go anywhere cool anymore either. It is rare they even visit a spaceship or new earth they are almost always dancing around very cheep sets in the present and that gets very dull only leaving earth 2 or 3 times a season. The doctor is supposed to travel through all time and space not keep leaping back to talk with Rose's EVER so annoying mother.

I really can't belive after how everyone threw a fit over the doctor kissing his companion in the TV Movie that the fan base hasn't been outraged with the doctor falling in love with that stupid twit of a companion Rose(Sorry Rose fans but I couldn't stand her). That is certainly trading down a bit from Romana isn't it?

All in all I just do not enjoy where they are taking the series nor the writing (I mean come one opening the the “heart of the tardis” with a TRUCK and then becoming a time god! How mary sue, dues ex machina can you get!?!?! Every season ends with a huge cop out like that! Oh that year didn't happen! The master can build a paradox machine but can't figure out how to repair a tardis? weak writting I say! Though credit where its due the Cyberman/Dalek war wasn't bad.) despite excellent casting choice for the doctor.

On the other hand what about Big Finish Audio? I've been LOVING those but sadly I only have two. They end up costing me an arm and leg to get them here in the US and I never can afford them. I really love their take on Paul McGann's doctor and I've heard very good things about what they've done with the other doctors particularly Colin Baker whom supposedly they've improved considerably playing him more they way Baker originally wanted to and less campy. I keep hoping with Doctor Who on the air Big Finish will finally start being carried by Boarder or something like that so I can actually afford to buy them once in a while.

Personally although I grew up with Baker my favorite doctor is Sylvester McCoy. I enjoyed seeing the Doctor being one step ahead of his foes and Ace as a bomb making wild child was great foil to his very cerebral Doctor.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
ozoneocean at 8:20AM, June 13, 2008
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Nick…
Wow man :)

I agree totally! Hehe, I've only been pussyfooting around the new crap series because everyone here was making such a fuss and I didn't want to hurt their feelings all the time. But yea man, you are TOTALLY spot on with ALL of that.

From what little I've seen of it, it's a show aimed at young kids, where as there was intelligent writing and stories in the old days. the sets didn't wobble, the costumes were good, the monsters were scary. Even watching it now as an adult I can say that and I know my parents and grand parents avidly watched it back then.

My biggest problem with it is the short shitty episodes. That's cheap.

———-
The radio show really IS brilliant. They aired them all on BBC7 and usually put them on every year some time… You could easily record them off there as they play if you've got one of those decent free recording programs… Can't recall the name of it but Spang would know, he uses it for the Gigcast news.

Yeah, the radio series is very interesting and well done indeed. there are some dud episodes, like that stupid one with the Airship (r109?), but they're usually pretty top notch.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 9:03AM, June 13, 2008
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I'm glad someone agrees with me. Most people seem pretty enamored with the new show. You are so right about where the show is aimed. I think partly because there isn't much else on TV that is in the same vien right now that people just eat up the new Doctor Who. I mean BSG is future Scifi and all but it isn't even close to the same tone, mood, or style of Doctor Who.

Thanks for the tip about BBC7. Thank goodness the BBC isn't afraid of the
internet the way some networks are.

Hehe Big Finish is like a dream come true. I grew up listening to Dr. Who radio drama at night “Genesis of the Dalek” & the made for radio “Slipback” in a weird way audio drama seems a very natural format for Doctor Who from my perspective.

I remember reading the book Dr. Who & the Daleks which was cool because if you read it one way it gave the whole history from the Doctor's view point/time line and if you read it backwards it gave it from the Dalek view point/time line.

It is out of date now with the new show but still something fun to pick up from the library.

One of the good things though that has come out of the series is that my friend has started picked up a lot of the classic stuff & we've been enjoying episodes we never saw before.

I for one really enjoyed the one 2nd Doctor adventure they finished by creating animated episodes to fill in the missing ones. Sure it wasn't as good as having a whole episode but it still was enjoyable. I for one would love to see the Dalek's Master Plan even in animated form as I've heard so many good things about that storyline.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
SpANG at 10:06AM, June 13, 2008
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You guys can be critical, but please don't imply my intelligence level (or anyone else's for that matter)is that of children because I happen to find the show really good. It's quite funny that oz has rarely seen anything of it, but agrees entirely with Nick. Ha!

The new series is just as good as the old series. Usually better. They've answered nagging questions that I have had in the past, grown leaps and bounds with f/x, and the writing is usually really good. As an adult, with an ADULT BRAIN, I still have to say a LOT of the shows I have seen are very deep and emotionally stirring. It's just as good as the other sci-fi programming like Battlestar Galactica, firefly, sliders, star trek, whatever.

Oh, and the new theme kicks ass. :D

So, don't like it, that's fine. But puh-lease don't get up on your high horses like somehow the show is beneath you or something.


Oh, and Sylvester McCoy sucked. :D
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
ozoneocean at 10:33AM, June 13, 2008
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The show IS more child friendly… that's not a slight on anyone's intelligence man, you should know that. Jebus, I watched Pokemon and Sakura avidly all through my years at uni and art school and loved it. :)

McCoy rocked. He was one of the best. Apart from when he got a bit too into jazz… He was a wanker then.

————-
I watched as much as I could stand. I've said nice things as much as I could, but there was too much… ugh …for me to get into it. I don't consider it a carry-on from the original, it's more like something made on its theme, like one of those comic series they make after the hero ends… Cyber Superman or something.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
SpANG at 10:48AM, June 13, 2008
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ozoneocean
The show IS more child friendly…
Than the original (60s-80s)? No way.

Does it cater to children? Yeah, I'll give you that. Doctor Who is and always will be a kid's show first. But it caters to more than just kids. If anything, the writing is way more intelligent and sophisticated.

I have to say that I didn't like the McCoy (or Colin Baker) years simply because of the shitty writing.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
ozoneocean at 11:00AM, June 13, 2008
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My point is that the original series wasn't as child friendly. Not at all. It was often quite horrific in places -as much as could be allowed on TV then. This series isn't anywhere near as horrific as could be allowed on TV today, if we go by relative standards, and even if you go by absolutes (one to one comparison) I don't think it is either. Besides, the writing was quite often very complex and dark in those shows, not to an extreme extent, but it was never aimed at kids. It had a kid following because of the genre more than anything else and because there wasn't much else for kids then.

Whereas this version needs to go after and deliberately TRY for that audience. There's a HELL of a lot more competition and the producers believe they need that target audience ;)

———-
Colin Baker was often badly written, but McCoy had his very good moments. He wasn't so strong when he had to be extremely angry though, he tended to spit and lisp. It didn't look very good on him
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 11:06AM, June 13, 2008
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SpANG, why is it insulting to tell the truth? The show IS targeted at a younger audiance (granted it is a teenage audiance now). The original show was targeted at young children originally (sorry to contradict you Ozone but it was) and quickly become darker. Indeed the death of the old show was set in the Colin Baker years when they tried to aim the show at a younger audiance again and the rating plummited so low that even when the show starting to climb back up the chaters in the 7th doctor era it wasn't enough to save it from the chopping block. I don't see why bringing up that fact suggests that we are insulting anyone.

I mean I like Hello Kitty for example and that certainly isn't targeted at my demographic. This fact in no way bothers me nor dimishes my apreciation for HK.

Now if you choose take issue with me over my distain for the supporting characters and often times weak plot lines well then I rise to the challange.

The new show has good episodes of course like The Girl in the Fire Place, Rose, Dalek, The Empty Child, & Blink (Sadly the doctor wasn't even really in that one).

But it has more and more constently had terrible episodes like The Lazarus Experiment, Gridlock, Fear Her, The Satan Pit & Father's Day.

Worse most of the storylines they've built up have been depressing flops (again with the exception of Doomsday) usually solved with virtually a wave of a hand.

Let me give you an example of what I'm getting at.

*SPOILER ALERT*

Now maybe you enjoyed the episode BUT at the end of last season the doctor “powers up” with the power of love like some 80s children special, they magically just undo everything with a flip of the button, defeats the master by calling his bluff that the Master will do anything to ensure his own survival then almost ten seconds later the Master commits suicide basically to spite the Doctor. To me that smacks of bad writting. And SOOOOO many episodes are like that it seems.

*Here Endith the SPOILER*

I just feel that the show has set itself up as far better then it has actually managed to deliver. Further it has become a soap opera always wasting time drawing in the assistant's family and her their ever flittery heart and that is just not what I'm looking for in Doctor Who (be it well written or poorly written).

You can after all still enjoy bad writting as an adult after and we frequently do. There is plenty of stuff people write off everday that is terrible writting ‘cause they are enjoying the ride. Alas the New Doctor who is just so chuck full of deplorable secondary characters that I just find it hard to ignore it when someone waves away a problem to end the episode. I admite I’d probably be much less harsh on the plots if the supporting cast wasn't always such a detraction from the series.

Oh and if you are talking about Human Nature I enjoyed it much more when it was a Seventh Doctor adventure. :P

*That said he leaps onto his high horse and rides off into the sun set* High-Ho Silver away!

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
SpANG at 11:23AM, June 13, 2008
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HAHA! I just realized why you guys are putting the older series up on a pedestal. Because you were LITTLE KIDS when you saw them. You saw these old series as magical, and now that you're old you think that someone raped your childhood by making the new series. :)

I don't suffer from that. I was an adult from the Davidson series on, so the series didn't have the “magic” it obviously infused into your heads at the time.

Look, the writing WAS NOT any better, the acting was HORRIBLE, and many characters were not even likable one bit (Turlough, Adric, Ace, Tegan- the only thing tolerable about her was her legs), and the effects were certainly much much worse. Even by the standards of the time.

I could go on, but why bother? You guys have just lost the ability to see ‘the magic’ anymore. Shame. :P

Hey, maybe I am more of a kid at heart. I can live with that. :)

“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
ozoneocean at 11:29AM, June 13, 2008
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Spang, that's an obvious point about the original watching but we've both already addressed that because it was obvious even to us. I said I enjoyed it as an adult, looking back on it without nostalgia. It really WAS that good. the acting was great since they had many actors of extremely high calibre in there, so that point is just silly. besides, there were many episodes I never saw as a kid,
Sorry man, but it's a cheap and failing point. ;)
————————————-

Nick, from what I've seen of the very first episodes, they're no more aimed at “kids” than Star Trek was. It's simply a genre program. Young adult would be a better descrption…

I admit the earliest episodes were a lot simpler than what it would become though. To regard those as “being for kids” is just simple prejudice against genre TV: anything not set in the here and now can't be intended for adults because they're too narrow minded and unimaginative.

——————————————
The target was substantially different to what it is now. Which is reflected in the tone, speed and look of the show. And for me, that doesn't appeal -which is fair enough because different things appeal to different people.

–I didn't even like Red Dwarf in its final series! I thought the computer effects were crappy (British CG usually is. Sorry guys but the Americans do it WAY better), the writing was ropey and too ambitious, as was everything else. British TV series usually always excel on tightly limited budgets, doing marvellous stuff with very little (best in the world at that), and fail horribly when given too much freedom with what they can do.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 12:15PM, June 13, 2008
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SpANG
HAHA! I just realized why you guys are putting the older series up on a pedestal. Because you were LITTLE KIDS when you saw them. You saw these old series as magical, and now that you're old you think that someone raped your childhood by making the new series. :)

I don't suffer from that. I was an adult from the Davidson series on, so the series didn't have the “magic” it obviously infused into your heads at the time.

Look, the writing WAS NOT any better, the acting was HORRIBLE, and many characters were not even likable one bit (Turlough, Adric, Ace, Tegan- the only thing tolerable about her was her legs), and the effects were certainly much much worse. Even by the standards of the time.

I could go on, but why bother? You guys have just lost the ability to see ‘the magic’ anymore. Shame. :P

Hey, maybe I am more of a kid at heart. I can live with that. :)

If you suggesting I'm holding the new series to a higher standard then am I the old, well of course I am. It has newer technology, it is higher profile, it is internationally broadcasted (rather then just later syndicated else where) and has been quite built up by its staff. However I'd suggest I hold Big Finish to the same standards and I feel they've come MUCH closer to the mark. I think it has less being a kid at heart and more a what you're willing to forgive. I'm willing to forive more in the old series the same way I'm willing to forgive things in the Avengers (Which I've only seen as an adult and would highly recomend the series up to the departure of Emma Peel despite it being a goofy sort of show at times) because they were limited by the times. I hold the new series to a higher standard because they are not nearly as limited. I watch Star Trek as a kid but that didn't keep me from enjoying Next Gen or Parts of DS9 (before it went strait to hell). Likewise the old BSG didn't keep me from enjoying the new show. Besides, the show is trying to appeal to people's nostolgia, if anything that should make me like the show more not less. Nostolgia worked excellently in the episode Dalek. The only reason I even watched the third season was because of the promise that the Master would be in it and I was loved Derik Jacobi (who has ALWAYS been my first pick as the evil time lord) as the master. Sadly it was Simm's master whom was the focus and he was terrible, not as bad as the american master mind you but bad. I've just honestly evaluated the new show for myself and found it wanting.

Regardless of what flaws we might disagree on in the old show. One thing the original show has was imagination. They took things all over the place, I felt each new episodes could be anything. I don't feel like that in the new series. I feel like, oh its been three episodes I pet they'll find so reason to go back to earth to visit X companions family and roll them needlessly into the plot. That my friend has nothing to do with “rose-tinted glasses” and everything to do with Rose herself. :P

On and off note the show went 20something seasons. It went all over the place. Making sweeping statments is awful hard. I think it is more fair to break it down era by era, doctor by doctor. The second doctor era wasn't considered to be to be bad FX wise at the time & doctor who was sufficently popular to justify two theatrical movies, while later doctors FX certainly were cheep and awful by even the standards of the day.

Further what is wrong with Ace? I mean no one is going to argue Adric he was one of the worst mistakes of the orignal series but Ace? Explain yourself sir! She is one of my favorite companions new or old.

Ozone: I'll grant you the early stuff was dark but originally many of the episodes were designed to be educational. The producers would ask what each episode was supposed to teach kids. It was only after the first season they dropped the kid gloves and just let the writers come up with whatever they felt was enjoyable.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
Ziffy88 at 6:54PM, June 14, 2008
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I like both the old and new Dr Who series. They're just good fun cheesy sci-fi. Really I enjoyed this season of Dr Who alot. I like the two parter with the spud peoples with lasers alot. Then the third one with the doctor's daughter.
last edited on July 14, 2011 5:02PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 9:47AM, June 17, 2008
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Here is something we all might be able to enjoy a Dr. Who Web Comic.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM

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