General Discussion

Evolution at work?
LowResAtari at 3:39PM, Feb. 28, 2007
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This article from Discovery News explains how a race of chimpanzees are now using sharp sticks to skewer small mammals, as in hunting. To adapt to all the males getting the food, the females have adapted to using these hunting methods to getting proper nutriment.

LINK

Strange, no?
99% of people would've finished this sente
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:48PM
Jimeth at 3:40PM, Feb. 28, 2007
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Soon they will take over the earth. Be ready.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:08PM
subcultured at 3:45PM, Feb. 28, 2007
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ahhh yes, our cousins left behind.

it makes me wonder how human built environments are moving evolution and survival instinct in a different way.
such as a bird using cars to crack nuts

J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:01PM
Red Slayer at 3:57PM, Feb. 28, 2007
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I wonder how many of those birds a day get hit by cars.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
subcultured at 4:11PM, Feb. 28, 2007
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well, evolution IS trial and error
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:01PM
Aurora Moon at 5:59PM, Feb. 28, 2007
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that bird was proably just an city animal…

city animals tend to surive differently than thier relatives out in the countryside. They find all sorts of creative ways to eat using the labor of human activity to lessen the work for them. more common than you think.

there's even wild rabbits moving into the cities and the towns due to there being less preadtors that would prey on them in those areas… easy vegation access espeically in the surburbs or other backyards of homes where people like to garden.
the city wild rabbits are very well fed in those areas here, even in the wintertime thanks to leeching off human efforts (aka the gardens, dropped trash, etc) and human activity.

humans thinks of the countrysides and the smaller towns as much more safer commuities, but the animals see the cities as safer areas.

kinda funny, huh?
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
iagojester at 6:00PM, Feb. 28, 2007
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Is the action of animals really considered evolution?
For all purpose-specific uses isn't evolution the scientific term for the changing of chromosomes, or biological function of things through time?
I would call the gorillas stabbing things with sticks to be an adaptation, not evolution. If they all died out in a freak accident and one baby remained and that baby started stabbing things with sticks, I might consider that evolution because the instinct was passed through genes, but we have no sucessive generations to prove anything yet. Right?

I guess my point is that I don't know and I'm more asking than telling.

~*~Fated Feather~*~
Pirates, art history, and time travel- things could get messy.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:55PM
suzi at 6:03PM, Feb. 28, 2007
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Red Slayer
I wonder how many of those birds a day get hit by cars.

They're crows, so, probably not too many. You'd think the bigger, clumsier looking birds get hit more often, but they're damn smart.

That video made me really really happy :D I love birds. I -really- want a pet crow…

This is possibly more impressive, as far as tool-making goes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/TtmLVP0HvDg

This one's a bit more involved, but I think it's seriously cool…go to the 2:10 marker, the first part is a bit boring/unrelated because he picks a different twig in the second part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/esfo6Wh-Ty8&NR
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:05PM
Aurora Moon at 6:05PM, Feb. 28, 2007
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I would have to agree that those animals are most likely just adapting to a different method of surival…

still amazing though.

most humans think that animals couldn't possibly be that clever enough to adapt to things, to plan ahead and so on forth…

but there's been studies that there's certain birds that actually plans ahead when it comes to food, etc..
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
Alexis at 9:17PM, Feb. 28, 2007
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Thank god Dolphins don't have opposable thumbs.
I'm drunk.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
kaminari at 11:33PM, Feb. 28, 2007
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I amused the other day by a blackbird who kept flying into the back of an airline catering truck that was waiting for a flight to arrive at the gate.
It would take a bag of peanuts from the truck, drop it on the ground, rip it open and eat them. After it snatched about three bags. I alerted the driver and told him he probably should drive around or the bird would get all the peanuts.

and doves are probably the dumbest.. we're usually peeling them off the taxiways.

I am FS2 champion! w00t!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:13PM
Neilsama at 12:08AM, March 1, 2007
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iagojester
Is the action of animals really considered evolution? For all purpose-specific uses isn't evolution the scientific term for the changing of chromosomes, or biological function of things through time?
Oh, Iago, you're such a nay-sayer! This is obviously… uh… er… Come to think of it, you're right, actually.

Maybe I'm missing the point here, but I'm not sure where the evolution is occurring. It seems that the chimps learned something new. It is fascinating that chimps are able to use rudimentary communication and essentially learn from each other, but that's really nothing new.

Now, if the chimps suddenly started MAKING weapons, that might get my attention. As far as I know, chimps don't possess the ability to construct tools, so they'd need to evolve in order for that to happen.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:10PM
Eviltwinpixie at 12:10AM, March 1, 2007
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Parrot shows signs of actually being able to TALK, rather than just repeating.

This one worries me. I think the parrots are gonna beat the apes for taking over. ;)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:24PM
ozoneocean at 2:44AM, March 1, 2007
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Neilsama
As far as I know, chimps don't possess the ability to construct tools, so they'd need to evolve in order for that to happen.
“It's not uncommon to have chimps use tools.” Hmm? Professor Jill Pruetz says “use” rather than “make”, but it amounts to pretty much the same thing in the context: using a branch as a spear means it has to be made or adapted to that purpose. But they make and use other “tools” like stripping a twig down so that it can be used to probe termite mounds so that a tasty termite dinner can be licked off of the stick after each plunge…

But a lot of other animals evince behaviour that many once considered purely human. It's probably NOT a case of the animals changing, rather it's a sign that we humans are opening our eyes a bit more and are no longer exclusively seeing the world from a perspective of “god given” superiority as the apex of evolutionary potential.

There's still a bit of a problem though, because we're looking for things in (no-human) animals that make them more like ourselves, which is a little silly because they're NOT human and will never become anything like us. Rather the main concern should be about trying to understand them as they are… if you get my meaning? It's tricky to explain, but teaching creatures tricks or them being able to speak in language that we can understand (sign language, spoken English etc.), is a good example of exactly the wrong way to understand them.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
mechanical_lullaby at 6:00AM, March 1, 2007
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iagojester
Is the action of animals really considered evolution?
For all purpose-specific uses isn't evolution the scientific term for the changing of chromosomes, or biological function of things through time?
I would call the gorillas stabbing things with sticks to be an adaptation, not evolution. If they all died out in a freak accident and one baby remained and that baby started stabbing things with sticks, I might consider that evolution because the instinct was passed through genes, but we have no sucessive generations to prove anything yet. Right?

I guess my point is that I don't know and I'm more asking than telling.
yeah… we really can't prove it. Personally, with the monkeys, I really just think they're getting smarter. Not that they'll change physically anytime soon if it is evolution because that process takes thousands of years, but I would like to teach a monkey how to drive. hehe… monkeys…

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:56PM
subcultured at 6:44AM, March 1, 2007
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i think they are getting smarter, the ones they use for scientific research(not experimnetation) to do various things such as that monkey that was sent to space. and the ones we teach sign language.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:01PM
ozoneocean at 7:54AM, March 1, 2007
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You monkeys! Getting smarter? Fwah! What a stupid thing to contemplate.
For one thing, what we observe them doing on their own in the wild we have no idea how long they've been doing it.
For the second thing, you can teach almost any animal (including insects) to do a vast myriad of things. ;)

The ability of an animal to learn and remember tricks isn't much of an indication of intelligence.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
SpANG at 8:16AM, March 1, 2007
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Damn you! Damn you all to hell!
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
suzi at 12:05PM, March 1, 2007
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Eviltwinpixie
Parrot shows signs of actually being able to TALK, rather than just repeating.

This one worries me. I think the parrots are gonna beat the apes for taking over. ;)

ANYONE who owns a parrot knows that. I have two African Greys, and while their vocabularies aren't particularly impressive, they are intelligent little guys with VERY intense personalities: temperaments, habits, preferences, moods. They hold grudges for long times, respond to different commands and phrases (for example, whenever we mention our old parrot who died, Buddy, the one who was around while he was still alive gets visibly upset and doesn't let anyone touch him for 10-15 minutes) and otherwise indicate that they understand a lot more than you think they would (they get upset when you use strong swear words to insult them, even if you say them nicely!)

So…while that particular Grey is, I admit, unusually talented…it's nothing new. What worries me about him is that he's a feather plucker, which means he has psychological problems :/
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:05PM
Jimeth at 2:09PM, March 1, 2007
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Eviltwinpixie
Parrot shows signs of actually being able to TALK, rather than just repeating.

This one worries me. I think the parrots are gonna beat the apes for taking over. ;)
Awesome. I need me of those parrots.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:08PM
Generic Human at 2:43PM, March 1, 2007
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ozoneocean
The ability of an animal to learn and remember tricks isn't much of an indication of intelligence.


So do tell me, what is the point of high school? ;)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
mechanical_lullaby at 2:51PM, March 1, 2007
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I don't base intelligence off of ability of taming either. I just want to see a monkey drive a car. Because it would be awesome. Awesomely dangerous.

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:56PM
Red Slayer at 3:50PM, March 1, 2007
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At work?

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
subcultured at 4:11PM, March 1, 2007
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Generic Human
ozoneocean
The ability of an animal to learn and remember tricks isn't much of an indication of intelligence.


So do tell me, what is the point of high school? ;)

to become popular and play sports (cause that's where most of the school's money go) and then make fun of the people that actually study in school
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:01PM
Caz Teh Frog at 4:23PM, March 1, 2007
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Bwaaah I really didn't want to see those videos ! :' (
I've been drawing at the Jardin des Plantes and the monkeys there just freak me out. Now I'm going to be scared of crows and parrots.
I like guinea pigs. Guinea pigs are nice dumb little animals. I like them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
Phantom Penguin at 5:09PM, March 1, 2007
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subcultured
Generic Human
ozoneocean
The ability of an animal to learn and remember tricks isn't much of an indication of intelligence.


So do tell me, what is the point of high school? ;)

to become popular and play sports (cause that's where most of the school's money go) and then make fun of the people that actually study in school

Well shit, i didn't meet my high school's goal then.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
Radmetalmonk at 6:09PM, March 1, 2007
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Meh, I think animals just learn to things. I look at humans, and pretty much just see animals as well. We just can do different things. Animals have different skills.

And on the high school note, high school is nothing more than to get you to be self motivated to work on shit. Because the level of difficulty is damn easy, you just have to work. It's to prepare you for college. If you actually get distracted by idiots, pop culture, and popularity contests…well, you're an idiot.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:59PM
that kid yellow at 7:55AM, March 2, 2007
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lol
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:14PM
ozoneocean at 10:46PM, March 2, 2007
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Generic Human
So do tell me, what is the point of high school? ;)
To train people to better socialise within their communities. Yes, that includes working for a living and all the other things a citizen of a society is meant to do. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
KomradeDave at 1:36PM, March 3, 2007
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Saw it coming. Back in '72 there was a film called Conquest of the Planet of the Apes

Caeser, Leader of the Ape Rebellion
Where there is fire, there is smoke. And in that smoke, from this day forward, my people will crouch and conspire and plot and plan for the inevitable day of Man's downfall - the day when he finally and self-destructively turns his weapons against his own kind. The day of the writing in the sky, when your cities lie buried under radioactive rubble! When the sea is a dead sea, and the land is a wasteland out of which I will lead my people from their captivity! And we will build our own cities in which there will be no place for humans except to serve our ends! And we shall found our own armies, our own religion, our own dynasty! And that day is upon you… NOW!

I say we stop the ape problem sooner rather than later.


As for High School, it's a place to hang out for four years before becoming a mechanic or going to college (where you hang out for another four years to do a job you were prepared for at 18).
Handshakes and mustaches are the only ways to know how much you can truly trust a man.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM

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