Debate and Discussion

Evolution versus Religion?
ozoneocean at 7:44AM, Oct. 16, 2008
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KingRidley
Also: Boo hoo someone disagrees, you are clearly better than they are because of it. You've lost credit in that discussion because of the childish way you stormed out going “I'm smarter than you~” Don't try and act like you're better than me because I got mad when you didn't fight fair.
This sort of thing is not appropriate for this forum. I've tolerated you up till now, but you're getting worse, and you did recieve several warnings for doing this to lothar.
Please: no more.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
KingRidley at 7:10PM, Oct. 16, 2008
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Alright, I tried more parodies of your “I'm too smart, hope this isn't arrogant” comment, I've tried making a list of all the crazy things you've done and said in my short time here, I've tried to think up witty comebacks, etc.

None of them really fit, although they were alot of fun to write, so I'm picking this.

You and lothar had it coming. You earned it. And at least I'm not bugging lothar about his spelling, or you about your smilies.

edit: OH also you did not give a damn when I did it to kyupol, so there is a definite bias working here.


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Today driving to school I thought of something pretty relevant. There is the argument that God placed Dinosaur bones into the Earth as a test for non-believers.

Now I have been reading alot of Diskworld novels recently, so to me the concept of “creating something so that it always existed” makes perfect sense. Essentially the Earth was created all at once, but in a state of having existed for as long as we think it had.

If this is true, then Dinosaurs weren't real. The planet was made so that they had existed, but technically they were never around to do the existing.

Technically this makes sense. But on some deep level of my mind, it felt wrong. Not just like “there is a flaw in this argument,” but a deep sense of almost betrayal. Part of me needs Dinosaurs to have existed. If the Earth was created so that it had always existed, I'd feel cheated. It's almost like if I was cloned you're still genetically you, but you never actually got to do anything that your previous body did.

This doesn't prove anything, but it really does influence my views on this. I still think that God created Earth, but I still think that God thinks like a scientist, and made evolution work as well. I just think that people made up the whole ‘dinosaur bones are fake’ thing. I hope they did anyways.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
ozoneocean at 10:22PM, Oct. 16, 2008
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I defend Kyupol all the time against that sort of foolishness, if you did that to him as well you should be ashamed. No one “earns” stroppy, childish, personal attacks in this forum. That sort of thing isn't welcome anywhere here, no matter who it's aimed at.
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If you're interested in the concept of an artificially created Earth, you should read Pratchett's early novel “Strata” in which he outlines the whole idea a bit more thoroughly, but in a SciFi genre rather than a fantasy one.

“Accidental”, unplanned, incidental formation of life without the need for divine intervention makes more sense to me.

The “god as a scientist” mode is closer to the idea that the catholic church currently officially follow: the universe was created with the big bang etc, but there was and always has been a god in the works observing and helping with a keen interest in humanity.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
Ironscarfs Ghost at 4:47AM, Oct. 17, 2008
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Ozoneocean
The “god as a scientist” mode is closer to the idea that the catholic church currently officially follow: the universe was created with the big bang etc, but there was and always has been a god in the works observing and helping with a keen interest in humanity.

I'd get on better with god if he didn't keep changing his mind all the time: first he tells us the world and everything in it was created in six days and anybody who proposes heretical scientific theories that suggest otherwise will be damned for all eternity. Next he decides he quite likes the idea of being a scientist (maybe it's the white coat) and suddenly it was him all the time, guiding the whole evolutionary process right down to the sub atomic level. Those six days? Well who's to say god's day has to be 24 hours eh? He's god after all - his day can be as long as he wants.

I just wish he'd dropped a couple of clues along the way - you know the type of thing:
“Hey Moses, before you take those tablets back down there, let's chip in a little teaser about molecules. They won't get it…. yet!”
I've read the whole thing from cover to cover and I can't find anything about sub atomic particles. It's probably there though; in code.
Er……..boo!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
KingRidley at 8:21AM, Oct. 17, 2008
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ozoneocean
I defend Kyupol all the time against that sort of foolishness, if you did that to him as well you should be ashamed. No one “earns” stroppy, childish, personal attacks in this forum. That sort of thing isn't welcome anywhere here, no matter who it's aimed at.
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If you're interested in the concept of an artificially created Earth, you should read Pratchett's early novel “Strata” in which he outlines the whole idea a bit more thoroughly, but in a SciFi genre rather than a fantasy one.



The “god as a scientist” mode is closer to the idea that the catholic church currently officially follow: the universe was created with the big bang etc, but there was and always has been a god in the works observing and helping with a keen interest in humanity.

He can and did earn that treatment, judging by the number of other people who think his posts are ridiculous. Every other post me makes is about some outlandish conspiracy theory. I don't even yell at him anymore because everyone else has already done it, it's easier to just ignore him. If you keep saying ridiculous things then people stop liking you, and when they don't like you there's very little motivation to be nice.

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If I get my hands on it I'll definitely read it. I love Terry Pratchett's work.



That theory really makes sense. More sense than creating everything to always exist.

As for creating the Earth, he could have been working on any number of ‘day’ schedule. In our own solar system there are tons of planets with longer days than we have. And it's hard to explain subatomic physics and the true nature of reality to that kind of society. Hell, it's hard to explain them to our society, and even still we don't have all of the answers.




Ironscarfs Ghost
I'd get on better with god if he didn't keep changing his mind all the time

Well, the real words of God have been twisted and diluted so much by human interference and those trying to use it to their own gains. Hell, when we die God will probably either be a vengeful deity who is outraged at our ridiculous beliefs, or he'll be like some cool guy who loves everyone and is proud of what we all learned about the world.

I kind of think vengeful God would be funny in a really unlucky sort of way. "What the hell is all this evolution nonsense? You seriously thought those dinosaur bones were real? You humans are all idiots, and I think it was about time for that apocalypse."
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
Ironscarfs Ghost at 9:53AM, Oct. 17, 2008
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King Ridley
He can and did earn that treatment, judging by the number of other people who think his posts are ridiculous. Every other post me makes is about some outlandish conspiracy theory. I don't even yell at him anymore because everyone else has already done it, it's easier to just ignore him. If you keep saying ridiculous things then people stop liking you, and when they don't like you there's very little motivation to be nice.

It's a start, but it's not the best example of “ignoring” I've seen.
Er……..boo!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
KingRidley at 11:00AM, Oct. 17, 2008
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yeah it doesn't look like it but I'm ignoring alot of his posts

of course it's hard to notice when people don't do something
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
Ironscarfs Ghost at 1:38PM, Oct. 17, 2008
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KingRidley
yeah it doesn't look like it but I'm ignoring alot of his posts

of course it's hard to notice when people don't do something

A good point KR. You make a lot of good points: if I could do that, I'd be posting on these forum debates instead of mostly just reading them. That's why it upsets me a little to see you getting into some of these scuffles. You've got reasoning and sharp wits on your side; all you need to do is build up your case and let it stand. Once you aim your wits at the individual, rather than their argument, it opens your whole case up to being dismissed as sour grapes, which it obviously isn't. Please don't think I'm getting at you here, I just don't want to see your good work go to waste.
KingRidley
I kind of think vengeful God would be funny in a really unlucky sort of way. “What the hell is all this evolution nonsense? You seriously thought those dinosaur bones were real? You humans are all idiots, and I think it was about time for that apocalypse.”
I think I prefer evolution to the god who plays elaborate practical jokes with a punchline of eternal damnation!
Er……..boo!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
KingRidley at 3:30PM, Oct. 17, 2008
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Ironscarfs Ghost
Please don't think I'm getting at you here, I just don't want to see your good work go to waste.
Hey man this isn't the stuff that offends me. This is real concern, and I always appreciate it.

Honestly whenever I go do something else some part of my mind always wonders if I reacted too violently, but as soon as I sit down and read their posts again it puts me right back in the same frame of mind.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
Ironscarfs Ghost at 4:02PM, Oct. 17, 2008
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It must be down to that tough board you were telling me about!

Seriously though, feeling passionate about your case is good: just direct that to addressing the issues - I know if someone takes a verbal jab at me in a discussion, I just feel like they're lashing out because their argument's losing ground. Instead of focusing on persuading the opposition that your case is right, you might try keeping the audience in mind - the interested readers like me. Convince us: there will always be some who come round to your position, especially if you seem like a nice guy!
Er……..boo!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
KingRidley at 7:14PM, Oct. 17, 2008
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I was going to type up a post outlining how I've reached this point, but I figure this isn't really the time or place for that. Just know that I don't do it to alot of people.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM

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