Debate and Discussion

Exemption from racist comments?
kyupol at 2:11PM, Nov. 14, 2006
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Why do black people always call each other the “n” word.

At first I thought its ok to call black people (*the dreaded n word*)?… cuz I heard alot of rap music back there in the Philippines they saying it left and right. Yes racism in America was part of what was taught to us in school. English class there made us read “To Kill a Mockingbird” (that book is banned from school instruction in Canada for the use of too much (*the n word*)) I came here thinking its ok… Teacher also told us that racist days are already over in America since you see millionairre black people in the NBA cards we loved to collect. And yes this teacher who never been to America told us that its ok to call a black person a (*the n word*).

One time in school (I was in grade 12 and 3 months in here), I was looking for this black dude. I asked a group of white dudes where Tyrone (not his real name) is. At first they didnt know who I was talking about. Until I described him and I was like… "you know… the nigger."

And then the four of them just laughed out loud. I couldnt understand why they were laughing. Until one of them politely told me that its not ok to use the “n” word unless you are also black. And I was like… uuh ok?

So because you are a member of a certain race, you can use racist comments that talk about your race?

Ok. So I can say chink (*or the dreaded c word*) and flip (*or the dreaded f word*) since I'm filipino-chinese.

And… what if some scientist examines my DNA and it gets proven that I'm a part of every single race on the planet? So could I say racist comments then? And could I use it in court as a defence that its scientifically proven that I'm part of every race on the planet?

And… with the ever increasing inter-racial marriages, could it be that 100 years from now (since every human race has been mixed up already) everyone will be ok to say racist comments to each other? Or will racism be definitely obsolete and will just eliminate itself.

Since whats the point of being racist if you're all the same part of a race if inter-racial marriages just continue?


NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Black_Kitty at 2:38PM, Nov. 14, 2006
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kyupol
English class there made us read “To Kill a Mockingbird” (that book is banned from school instruction in Canada for the use of too much (*the n word*))

One of my classmates has to teach To Kill A Mockingbird for the whole four weeks of his practicum so no, To Kill A Mockingbird is not banned from school instruction in Canada. In fact, there's a few student teachers in my class who have to teach it in their grade 10 practicum class. :S Oh hell, I studied that book when I was in high school.

The reason why it's okay for black people to call each other with the “n” word is because in their case, they're not using it in a racist context. When they use it, it's about taking back and taking ownership of a word that has often been used to describe them in a derogatory manner.

When you use it, you are not taking back or taking ownership of the word. It doesn't apply to you because nobody would refer to you with the “n” word as an insult. To put it in a more dramatic kind of way, you are not victimized by the common use of that word and therefore it is not an issue of power for you.
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:23AM
kyupol at 2:49PM, Nov. 14, 2006
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One of my classmates has to teach To Kill A Mockingbird for the whole four weeks of his practicum so no, To Kill A Mockingbird is not banned from school instruction in Canada. In fact, there's a few student teachers in my class who have to teach it in their grade 10 practicum class. :S Oh hell, I studied that book when I was in high school.

???

My teacher told me its banned. We were told that we were supposed to read that book but he made us read Ender's Game instead.

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
ozoneocean at 2:55PM, Nov. 14, 2006
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Bk's right. The use of language isn't about words anyway, it's always about context. There are things you can say to your lover in bed that you'd never say to your grandmother during a family gathering. :)

Besides, your point about scientists and DNA, disproving race? Already done, years ago… Besides, “race” has never really been very scientific to start with, it's a social belief, not something that's real (in fact, it tends to be only fringe scientists with agendas who ever try to prove race in the face of all evidence to the contrary, like the ones the Nazis sponsored). You have different cultures, languages, nationalities, “ethnicities”, common facial features, similar skin tones or whatever, but it doesn't equal separate “races”, it's a moronic belief and I wish more people would understand that.

Back to the point though, it's all about context. You could have a good friend who's Afro-American or whatever, and maybe he wouldn't mind at all if you called him “nigger”. I call my friends the vilest, foulest things, but only because they're my friends and that's the way we can talk to each other: because we are friends and we understand there's no malice.
But if someone who's not a friend comes along and uses those terms at us, we'd be offended because they're not part of the group, they're not allowed! ^_^
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
Black_Kitty at 3:00PM, Nov. 14, 2006
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kyupol
???

My teacher told me its banned. We were told that we were supposed to read that book but he made us read Ender's Game instead.

Yeah well tell that to my classmates who found out on their orientation on Thursday that on the following Monday, they have to start teaching To Kill A Mockingbird. ^^;;; The book is even mentioned as an example of an opportunity for character education by the Ontario Public School Boards' Association.

I don't know why your teacher would say it's banned but it's not a banned book. I read it in grade 10, my brother read it in grade 10, and when I was peer tutoring a grade 10 class, they all read it as a unit of study. I even made worksheets for them about the book and Harper Lee. They're still reading it now in grade 10 English classes.
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:23AM
Tantz Aerine at 3:29PM, Nov. 14, 2006
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It is all about context. People or entire cultures have words which have no racist connotations when used by in-group people and are highly offensive and degrading when used by others. In Greece, the very same example is by a word beginning with ‘m’ which translated in english would mean something like ‘wanker’ (anyone here been in greece, will have heard people shouting it to each other, especially drivers at rush hour *L*). Greeks saying it between them, it has a whole range of meanings from ‘cool dude’ to ‘silly’. Anyone non-Greek saying it, it is an insult some will even beat the unfortunate who wants to be in-group for.

It works the same in every culture, I would bet. There is always a word or words having this duality. It is all a matter of context.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:06PM
subcultured at 3:45PM, Nov. 14, 2006
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I think they are trying to take back the word, trying to dilute the word.

watch clerks 2…when they get into an argument about saying a certain slur word. http://www.jellotv.com/node/161
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:00PM
ozoneocean at 7:18PM, Nov. 16, 2006
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BigFishComic
Black_Kitty
When they use it, it's about taking back and taking ownership of a word that has often been used to describe them in a derogatory manner.
I completely agree.
I'm too tired to do much now except to say: BAD! Bad Bigfish!
Enforcing an old rulle here, you either debate or hold your piece. If you just agree then don't post, or else say How you agree. Sorry, but the place is for debate and discussion.
LIZARD_B1TE
ozoneocean
You have different cultures, languages, nationalities, “ethnicities”, common facial features, similar skin tones or whatever, but it doesn't equal separate “races”, it's a moronic belief and I wish more people would understand that.
Agreed. (Ozone and I actually agreeing on something in a debate? Who could have seen that coming?)
Same with Lizard Bite, (but I wasn't enforcing the rule then).
I appologize but these sorts of posts will face deletion.

Oh and I may as well add to the debate…
Ok, the dilution of the names, or trying to re-own them or whatever; that's only a small part of it, if it's ever a part at all. One group may start using former ethnic taunts and have dilution as a part of their rationale, but after that it becomes popular currency among other members of the group who have no such intention: they simply use it to belong. And the funny thing is, the taunts never lose their power as ethnic slurs, because if an outsider uses them, they almost always carry the same connotation.
Context is the key.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
Rich at 9:25PM, Nov. 16, 2006
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subcultured
I think they are trying to take back the word, trying to dilute the word.

But that doesn't change things any. All it does is change it for the minority. If I were to go up to a black dude and say “Yo nigga, wassup?”, I'd probably end up in a fight. If the minority reclaims it and keeps it to themselves, the word will still remain the same for the rest of the world, and nothing would have changed.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:06PM
Black_Kitty at 5:29AM, Nov. 17, 2006
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Rich
But that doesn't change things any. All it does is change it for the minority. If I were to go up to a black dude and say “Yo nigga, wassup?”, I'd probably end up in a fight. If the minority reclaims it and keeps it to themselves, the word will still remain the same for the rest of the world, and nothing would have changed.

But there is change. Now there's an alternative meaning behind that word depending on the context upon which it's used. Sure it has an exclusive use to it but it exists.

kyupol
… but shouldnt black people stop calling themselves niggers? Cmon. Have some respect for yourselves.

They're not using it in a context that disrespects themselves. :P

The easiest example (that won't make me late for school) is the word “bitch.” Bitch technically means female dog but if it's used in the context of an insult, then it usually means an unpleasant and difficult woman.

But if it's used in a different context then the meaning shifts. With Heartless Bitches International, the word “bitch” is used in a positive manner to signify an individual who is in control and stands up for him/herself.

In another context, it could have a harmless meaning. My friend would call me “bitch” sometimes but in response, I would call him “whore.” Both of us are just fooling around and teasing each other. We don't mean it in a disrespectful way.
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:23AM
Aurora Moon at 11:16AM, Nov. 17, 2006
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Rich
subcultured
I think they are trying to take back the word, trying to dilute the word.

But that doesn't change things any. All it does is change it for the minority. If I were to go up to a black dude and say “Yo nigga, wassup?”, I'd probably end up in a fight. If the minority reclaims it and keeps it to themselves, the word will still remain the same for the rest of the world, and nothing would have changed.

I agree with that fact, and I have actually discussed it with a black friend of mine..

You see, the “N” word actually has nothing to do with “ownership”… it just simply means “Ingorant Man”. you see, back in those times, Anybody who had very poor education usually ended up working to the bone for the more richer and the more “privigled”… and that incudles poor WHITE men. in some parts of england back then, they were actually called Niggers too… all because they couldn't afford education and ended up working on the streets to earn thier food and for surival. So by that defination, anybody can be a nigger, even white men.
Yes, it was what they called slaves but blacks weren't the only one who were called niggers.

Thats the very reason why he felt that it was so stupid of people espeically of his race, calling each other Niggers like they're using to “take back ownership”, etc….. when in reality in this life, nobody belongs to anybody…
he's told me that he doesn't feel like he was ever “owned” in his whole life, thus he doesn't feel the need to use that “N” word. and he sees no joy in being called a “ingorant” man.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
subcultured at 5:41PM, Nov. 17, 2006
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if we can change the word “mouse” from a rodent to a pc accessory, then it is possible to change words
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:00PM
Glarg at 2:01PM, Nov. 19, 2006
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1.) its not “Nigger” Its Nigga, Nigger is a term in slave times meaning a hateful black slave.

Nigga means your black friends, hell some black peoplecall white people Nigga, Infact my black friend calls just about everyone Nigga.

2.) Im Mexican, And for some reason Black People dont mind it if I call them Nigga. I guess your skin has to not be pale in order for you to say it. Not necasarrily white, I mean Cherokee people can say it, India people can say it, mexican people can say it, I think theres an exception for Russian, Canadia, White folk, British, And Asian……im not so sure about Iraqian people.
LOL imagine Osama saying to his fellow Terrorists “WHATS CRACKIN MY NIGGAS!”
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:36PM
BigFishComic at 5:27PM, Nov. 19, 2006
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woah, actually…whenever I see an asian person using the word “nigga” I just think they're a stupid wanna-be-ghetto motherfucker. Unless they're a fob. Fobby ghetto asian kids are ridiculous.

…but that might just be because I always see them on the Berkeley campus and you know, most kids at Berkeley aren't ghetto.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:22AM
ozoneocean at 1:54AM, Nov. 20, 2006
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subcultured
if we can change the word “mouse” from a rodent to a pc accessory, then it is possible to change words
It may be possible, true, but not in your examples of either the N word or mouse. In both cases the meanings have simply been expanded, not altered.

And onto the term “Nigger”. You guys have the general intent of the word right, but not its origin. Come on, guys, the origin is TOO obvious! “Negro” is Latin for “Black”, the name simply refers to people's skin tone. “Nigger” is a pejorative colloquialism, derived from “Negro” by the kind of stupid, nasty people who would use such a term offensively.

Since West African people were worked mercilessly as slaves, phrases such as “working him like a Black” gained popular currency- obviously it describes making someone work very hard. Since the West African people's were also an imported, darker, underclass, “Nigger” often became a generic term for anyone who fitted that description, even tangentially!
-again, the use really comes from the uneducated moron-class of people… But anyone can be a moron regardless of education.
So you have instances were darker Indian or Pakistani people in Britain are called that term… and so on.

A related and misunderstood term is “Whitetrash”. Contrary to some popular belief, that isn't a retaliatory term thought up by minorities for “whites”. The term was invented by the middle/upper-classes as a way of equating the poorer, lower-class “whites' among them with the lowest class of people they could conceive of: i.e., you have ”trash“ who are assumed to be your poor ”coloured folk" and your Whitetrash, who are almost the same thing…

The whole practice is sordid, classist, and all around horrible…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
Obsidian at 9:36AM, Nov. 21, 2006
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In regards to the “n-word”. This word has so much pain and suffering tied up to it that it can never be a good thing to use. It has been a way to mentally keep my people down. To see others using it as a good thing or as a way to acknowledge friendship is ridiculous. Tales from slavery are told in my family, and they aren't great. To know that my ancestor and the ancestor of many other Black people were taunted the “n-word” while being lynched, raped, sold away like cattle, denied basic freedoms, murdered, treated and displayed like subhumans, and all other sorts of wickedness by crooked people mainly white perpetrators and other gorups of people who followed suit (including some very mixed up Black people); or to be called this word myself and threatened and having to fear for my life or realize that I will never live my life with the comfort that say someone white will live because of my skintone, is enough for me to know that this word needs to be thrown in a pit of fire and left to burn an agonizing death.

Black people's lot in this world is not grand and a couple of millionaire NBA players or rap artists mean nothing. If murderous groups like the KKK are still legally around, then what does that say about society? If I can't be treated like an intellectual equal in university by my peer because I am Black (and seen as stupid and just in uni because of a free ride for some pc agenda), then things are very messed up indeed. And yet there are Black people who toss around this word to each other like its a good thing. They are teaching people in other countries that this word is okay to use as if it were any other word!! You have people who if provoked by a Black person, this word will come flying out of their mouths like it is nothing (that guy who played Kramer recently at a comedy club). For goodness sake, the name Hitler gets more reverance out of people than the “n-word”. Both words will never be neutral as long as we live and breath (perhaps if society collapsed and it is a million years in the future). Everyone sheds a tear for the Halocaust, but of what we Blacks went through and are still going through, it's “n-word” this and “n-word” that and ignorance all around. I suppose people do not what to revere wickedness that they themselves have caused and have not done much about, thus why this word just won't die (merely a symptom of the problem).
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:20PM

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