Debate and Discussion

Fanservice BAD?
Eunice P at 2:57AM, May 15, 2010
(online)
posts: 792
joined: 2-8-2006
I'm getting somewhat frustrated with this kid who kept emailing me that fanservice is bad.

Initially, he requested me to list out some animes that don't contain ANY fanservice. I abide to his request and sent him the list. But I also advised him that he's restricting himself from watching other good titles if he chooses only to watch a completely no fanservice show. Anyway, I respect his decision if he wishes to watch only no fanservice show.

Soon he responded and kept telling me that fanservice in anime is bad and how it's rendering the show unwatchable. He even added that fanservice forces the viewers to cope with it, thus making viewers to get used to that stuff and so on. He then assumed that I (as a woman) will feel uneasy like him when watching anime about girls that wear scantily. huh!?

I mentioned to him that I enjoy drawing a bit of fanservice just for fun but he kept telling me that people who are into fanservice are considered bad. He even believed that what I'm doing is giving a bad side effect and will cause the boys to grow up treating women like objects. Telling me there is no way around this bad side effect.

I was like… why the hell is he so uptight in indoctrinating me about how bad fanservice is? I consider that there's no harm in creating a minor fanservice, but are all fanservice really that bad???
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
ozoneocean at 4:03AM, May 15, 2010
(online)
posts: 24,942
joined: 1-2-2006
I'd say that the kid has a focus issue. Since he's become aware of fanservice and he's formed that particular opinion of it, he's developed a hypersensitivity to it.
It's as simple as that.- he now perceives it as a massive problem, but is only a massive problem to him in this instance because he's the ony one that really sees it that way. :)

I'm sure there are others like him, but only because they share equally skewed perspectives.

Astto fanservice itself-it only becomes annoying to me if you're watching something serious and suddenly you see panties for no reason what so ever. I'm 100% fine with it, as long as it's in appropriate places that are logical to the flow of the story, the action on the screen at the time, and the world of the characters etc. If it's just thrown in at seemingly random times then it's detrimental to the work.

-Oh, and I think it's highly inappropriate when it's under-age characters that are flashing their stuff for fanservice. The Japanese think differently about that sort of thing I suppose, and I get that, but it's still not something I like to see.- so in THAT way, I'm a bit like that kid that's bothering you Eunice. lol!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:36PM
Hakoshen at 10:25AM, May 15, 2010
(offline)
posts: 2,090
joined: 11-23-2008
Sounds like the kid talking to you is 12, and is in a very indoctrinated family.

However fanservice is typically done by characters who are legally underage even in Japan, so I can see how one might look at things in the way he argued. I mean, and this is just the first one that came to mind, look at Negima. The adults are the only ones NOT getting their clothes ripped off. The Japanese view sex and sexuality in a starkly different way than we do here in the west, and a kid of any age, and until just recently it seems, *any* age, showing their unmentionables was an instant win.

As far as it leading to the objectivity of women, that's going hand in hand with the Western movement of taking sexiness out of popular media. It's funny, because 50 years ago when showing skin was taboo, women were much closer to actual “objects” than they are now. I say if we can't have any more sexy women on television, then all men have to be fat, balding and overweight.

You know who I mean too.



Taking away fanservice will ultimately lead to THAT being the standard for everyone.

But also, as Ozone said, fanservice in a 99% non-fanservice anime would just be weird. Imagine if panty shots started showing up in Naruto. I think I would fly to Japan and kill Kishimoto myself.
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
Yvain at 12:22PM, May 15, 2010
(offline)
posts: 14
joined: 5-14-2010
I want to kill Kishimoto anyway because he writes Naruto

But seriously

Fan service is not inherently bad, but when they try to substitute it for a good plot it is terrible.

Its rather insulting to my intelligence when they pretend to have a plot. I can tell the difference.

If done wrong it can also be quite sexist as if that's all a female character has to offer. Why can't you do both.

Example: Seras Victoria from Hellsing give lots of fan service but also kicks major ass.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:53PM
isukun at 7:10PM, May 15, 2010
(online)
posts: 2,481
joined: 9-28-2006
I find this topic kind of funny. Fan service and the exploitation of women in pop culture is not something native or exclusive to anime or Japan. I also find it kind of strange to say that something which is intended to (and quite frankly does) attract a particular audience makes a show “unwatchable”. I'm sure there are thousands, possibly millions of people in that intended audience who would disagree with your friend.

At least in the case of anime, fan service goes both ways. Western animation tends to target predominantly male audiences, so your adult animation tends to only exploit women. Plus, your anime exploitation tends to have a somewhat positive spin to it. Sex object is somewhat better in my mind than Western media targeting women which tends to depict men as brutish, idiotic, and unnecessary.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM
Eunice P at 11:41PM, May 17, 2010
(online)
posts: 792
joined: 2-8-2006
Thanks for the explanation, guys. I know in some countries, kissing scene is considered a fanservice and needs to be censored. As for Japan, child fanservice (Lolita and Shota) is considered a norm. The idea of fanservice is pretty much one man's meat is another man's poison. I guess fanservice needs to abide to cultural norm within the country even when one may not necessarily consider it appropriate?

And ozone, if you're that kid, you would have stopped drawing your comics. ;)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
Asbin at 9:47AM, May 18, 2010
(online)
posts: 167
joined: 2-9-2010
I think it depends on context more than anything. I mean if its just random senseless fan service it can come off as tasteless. Like several animes where girls fall down for no damn reason and show there panties. But if it actually has a purpose to the plot, than by all means. Where I come from, ppl don't really care about censorship lol
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
Hawk at 12:46PM, May 18, 2010
(online)
posts: 2,760
joined: 1-2-2006
I don't usually mind fanservice until they use it too frequently. To a certain degree it can make things interesting, provide comedy, or break up tension. But with too much fanservice I start to feel insulted. I start feeling like the creators see me as a stupid, hormone-driven dolt who can't focus on anything for very long without something sexually-charged to regain my interest. Or, they think I'm the kind of person who chooses his entertainment based on how much nudity they'll show me rather than a compelling plot or interesting characters.

There is such a thing as “too much fanservice”, but I have a feeling this complaining kid is just getting a bit self-righteous.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
isukun at 5:32PM, May 18, 2010
(online)
posts: 2,481
joined: 9-28-2006
I start feeling like the creators see me as a stupid, hormone-driven dolt who can't focus on anything for very long without something sexually-charged to regain my interest.

There is more porn produced each year than TV shows and movies combined. It is possible to build an audience for a show entirely on the promiscuity and fan service it provides. It may not be the kind of show you personally like, but there is other stuff out there which doesn't sell itself on its sexual content. I can't think of any shows I've seen which were really heavy on the fan service and also had a really strong story.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM
mlai at 7:36PM, May 18, 2010
(online)
posts: 3,035
joined: 12-28-2006
People threshold tolerance and definition of fanservice differ. Therefore if you have any bit of sexuality in your comics, it's difficult to please everybody. You may think you made it entirely congruous with the plot, theme, and context… but some readers will still feel it was overdone and unnecessary.

I think it depends on the author's personal definition. If YOU know you're drawing it for strengthening the story, with fanservice as a secondary/minor intent, then your readership should end up feeling the same way.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
ozoneocean at 4:01AM, May 20, 2010
(online)
posts: 24,942
joined: 1-2-2006
Eunice P
And ozone, if you're that kid, you would have stopped drawing your comics.
Hahaha!
Actually, when someone first rought up the subject of “fanservice” in my comic I was completely mystified. I just didn't get what they were talking about. I went back through the whole thing and looked around for any gratuitous fan servicey sort of things and couldn't find any. lol!

I just draw that way because that's how I draw and that's what I want to see on my page. :)

So yeah, fan service is subjective.-One man's fanservice is another man's obscenity is another man's ordinary way of doing things.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:36PM
Faliat at 11:41AM, May 20, 2010
(online)
posts: 582
joined: 10-17-2006
One country's child fanservice is “another country's” child pornography, though.

Or it soon will be…

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
ozoneocean at 1:17AM, May 21, 2010
(online)
posts: 24,942
joined: 1-2-2006
Faliat
One country's child fanservice is “another country's” child pornography, though.

Or it soon will be…
Of course. But that's mainly the Japanese isn't it? I'm not sure about other South East Asian countries, but no one else really goes for child fan-service- as a nationality that is.


As for the ordinary adult stuff- I hope that keeps going on forever. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:36PM
Faliat at 5:18PM, May 21, 2010
(online)
posts: 582
joined: 10-17-2006
ozoneocean
Faliat
One country's child fanservice is “another country's” child pornography, though.

Or it soon will be…
Of course. But that's mainly the Japanese isn't it? I'm not sure about other South East Asian countries, but no one else really goes for child fan-service- as a nationality that is.


As for the ordinary adult stuff- I hope that keeps going on forever. :)
I was actually putting those quote marks in there to refer to my own country. But I didn't really want to talk too much about it since there's another thread for that.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
demontales at 4:33PM, May 26, 2010
(online)
posts: 305
joined: 7-18-2009
Someone
I just draw that way because that's how I draw and that's what I want to see on my page.

Exactly.

I'm tired of the word fanservice crawling around and people saying that anything sexy is “fanservice”.

I had expected to rant longer on this but the weather is killing my brain.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:10PM
Freegurt at 9:11AM, May 27, 2010
(online)
posts: 331
joined: 11-24-2007
Hawk
I don't usually mind fanservice until they use it too frequently. To a certain degree it can make things interesting, provide comedy, or break up tension. But with too much fanservice I start to feel insulted. I start feeling like the creators see me as a stupid, hormone-driven dolt who can't focus on anything for very long without something sexually-charged to regain my interest. Or, they think I'm the kind of person who chooses his entertainment based on how much nudity they'll show me rather than a compelling plot or interesting characters.

There is such a thing as “too much fanservice”, but I have a feeling this complaining kid is just getting a bit self-righteous.

Agreed.

This is my take on it, if I wanna see porn (not saying all fanservice is porn, but it sometimes gets pretty raunchy) I'm going to watch porn. I'm not going to be reading political cartoons in hopes of seeing some titty action.

Quite honestly, I don't like fanservice in any way (be it for girls or guys). I don't care if someone has fanservice in their comic, but most of the time, I find that having it is grossly out of place. I just find it pandering to the lowest common denominator, IMHO. Like, the readers aren't paying any attention! I'd best bust out the naked ladies!

While the fanservice is appreciated by a lot of the readers, depending on what is being shown, it ostracizes a large group of people (unless you've got it with both the penis and the breasts). Like, I enjoy some of the superhero comics here and there was one that I was thoroughly enjoying for a while. Then came the scene with a chick completely naked, blindfolded with breasts the size of Alaska. The comic could have done much better with out it, honestly. And I felt that the creator of the comic wasn't thinking of the female audience. Heck, I stopped reading after that, because all that entire chapter was was the naked chick parading around with breasts too big for comfort and areola too small for any breast (at least be anatomically correct if you're going to be drawing naked people, jeez).

I find fanservice, if it's applicable to the story line or to the situation, all right, but I just think it panders to one side while ignoring the other (the majority of the time). And you can lose a lot of potential readers that way.

That's just my two cents.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
kyupol at 10:25PM, May 27, 2010
(online)
posts: 3,712
joined: 1-12-2006
I don't think there's anything wrong with fanservice unless its all the time or unless your “comic” is named “sexy girls (or guys) of drunkduck” or something like that.

I barely do fanservice anyway…
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:27PM
PaulEberhartd at 7:30AM, May 28, 2010
(online)
posts: 27
joined: 7-21-2007
ozoneocean
I just draw that way because that's how I draw and that's what I want to see on my page.

That's exactly what I do myself. Everything else is crud anyway, as there will always be someone to complain, no matter what you do. No one's forced to read my comic, after all.

Still, it keeps amazing me that there are people out there who haven't yet realised that the Victorian era has been over for more than 100 years. (“Oh my god, I just found out that women have legs, too! How shocking!” faints) >:)
The more I think about it the more I think that most of them are in a way shizophrene. I mean, how could you spot something naughty in all possible and impossible places, if you haven't got your mind full of filth all the time?
I know people who e.g. wear bathing trunks when having a shower (with the door firmly locked) and call any woman wearing a mini skirt a slut, while at the same time taking secret pride in a vast collection of hardcore animal porn on their harddisk. (I haven't made that up, that's really someone I used to know!!)

Anyway, I've stopped taking those people serious long ago. There just might be some decent ones among them, too, and they have my sincerest apologies, but I've got to know too many who aren't. Those who can't cope with my Y-chromosome having a say in how I draw my female main-character are free to go jump in a very cold lake (a good way to get rid of those unseemly thoughts arising ;) ).

A wholly different matter is protecting children. I think that's a far more serious reason to go easy on fan service than the ramblings of some idiots whose main problem is but themselves.

However from my own experience as an aspiring teacher, I have a hard time believing that any child will ever get a shock for life when seeing a character in a tacky situation once in a while - as long as it makes sense. Most of them probably have elder siblings or parents who forget locking their bedrooms, anyway. If the children aren't already mentally deranged anyway, they won't get so just because they see someone naked or semi-naked. They just won't get the meaning of it. They already know that everybody's naked under their clothes, that being naked in public is very embarrasing (except on the beach) and that grown-ups look a bit different, make a huge fuss over it and sometimes even start acting strangely for no apparent reason - which is something you want to avoid.
This is not to say that it's OK to expose children to stark nudity, graphic sex and so on, but there's no reason to worry if a character is, say, a bit more lightly dressed than usual or if some of their bodily merits come out a bit more clearly than e.g. those of the boy or girl next door.
I think we can allow ourselves a rather relaxed attitude about fan service and should be more concerned about how we use violence and swearing.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:41PM
Hapoppo at 8:31PM, June 3, 2010
(online)
posts: 241
joined: 1-26-2007
Not that I'd know anything about fanservice, but it's fine until that's all your comic/anime's about. Sex sells, but unless you're a 14-years-old-boy you're probably going to want some story to go with your T&A.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
isukun at 6:44AM, June 5, 2010
(online)
posts: 2,481
joined: 9-28-2006
The early anime market in the US (once people realized it was “anime”), relied heavily on fan service series. The target audiences back then were usually college age males. There is still a lot of fan service oriented series which get released here and which sell. I doubt the 14-year-old Naruto and Cartoon Network crowds are buying it all up since they have a tendency to get their entertainment for free or off of the TV. Sometimes people just want some simple arousal without a deep story.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved