Debate and Discussion

Fitna
lothar at 7:05AM, March 30, 2008
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anybody see that fitna movie ?
in case you dont know what it is , some guy from Holland or some country made this anti-quaran movie .
i dont live in Europe so i dont exactly feel like Islam is going to invade me , but it sure seems like a lot of people over there are freeking out about it . wtgf is wrong with people that they cant have civilized discussions about things without getting their panties in a knot ? the european guy is all like “ban islam” and the islam guy is all like “ i kill you now ”
seriously think everybody needs to lay off of the hate . heaven wouldn't be so atractive if we stopped making the Earth a hell …

Edit - so what does everybody think about this ? anybody from Europe or Islam here ?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Frostflowers at 3:51AM, March 31, 2008
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“islam is going to invade me”? “Anyone from Europe or Islam”? o.O … I do hope that this is just clumsy phrasing, because you do know that Islam is a religion and not a place, right? I'm quite certain that you know this, but the way you phrased it makes it seem you don't. (Also, followers of the Islamic faith are called called Muslims, not “islam guys”.)

I haven't seen the Fitna movie, but I have heard about it. Holland has over the past few years made quite a name for itself in the issues of Islam and Muslim terrorists, and this politician is just the last in a line that is rapidly getting longer. On the one hand, I can understand having issues with Islam and the way that certain rules are enforced - but then, I have an issue with organised religion overall - but attacking a religion at large is useless and stupid.

Saying that all muslims are activists and plan terrorist acts or that they're all wife-abusers and all want implementation of Shari'a laws is stupid, because that's like saying that all Christians are Fred Phelps - it's simply not true. A ban on a particular religion doesn't work, because if you ban one religion, you are one step closer to banning them all, and “freedom of religion” is a deeply important principle. Banning religion is the act of a dictatorship.

That said, the Muslims who respond with death threats or acts of violence undermine their own credibility. They have a perfect right to be angry - I'd be pretty angry if someone wanted to ban something that was as central to my life as religion is to the faithful - but responding with death threats turns them into the same kind of repressive people that they are reacting against.


I don't want to ban religion, I don't want to ban the right of free speech (though free speech is a right, not an obligation), but I would be happy to ban fanaticism of all kinds - whether it be religious, political or any other kind. Of course, that's impossible, so I will settle for being irritated with fanatics.
The Continued Misadventures of Bonebird - a poor bird's quest for the ever-elusive and delicious apples.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
ipokino at 11:30AM, March 31, 2008
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I don't want to ban religion, I don't want to ban the right of free speech (though free speech is a right, not an obligation), but I would be happy to ban fanaticism of all kinds - whether it be religious, political or any other kind. Of course, that's impossible, so I will settle for being irritated with fanatics.

I think the problem is, ‘irritation’ with fanatasism doesn't quite cover. The platitude ‘People fear what they don’t understand' hardly applies either. I firmly believe that you have the right to believe whatever you wish, but that right stops at the end of your nose. The trouble with religions in general, and religious fanatics in main is–they have no respect for MY rights. To religious fanatics I am either with them 110% or I am in league with the Supreme Evil and should not be allowed to exist. Period.

The trouble is, while I am willing to live and let live, they are not, and are completely willing to use any means to make their point. Do I fear this? Yes. Do I wish to protect my family from this kind of extremeism? YES. Will I do whatever it takes to prevent a fanatic from harming my loved ones–YES YES and YES.

The people of Holland (and I have been there) are as peaceful and tolerant as you could ever want. Something has happened there to galvanize this extreme reaction. Until and Unless I am able to live in their shoes, I cannot condemn them for taking actions they feel are necessary to protect their loved ones, their homes and their lives.

How far are you willing to go to protect YOUR (everyone in general–not aimed at any one in particular) children from a percieved threat? That is the real question…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:02PM
Frostflowers at 6:57AM, April 1, 2008
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I'm not condemning the people of Holland for their actions - I just think that this particular person did something I don't quite agree with. I fully understand the need and wish to protect your family from extremists - however, I don't feel I am the right person to argue what needs to be done, because I don't have the immediate threat hanging over my head, and therefore can't entirely put myself in the proper frame of mind.

I don't know how far I would go to protect myself and my family - I'm a Swedish girl, living in a village in the middle of nowhere that no one has ever heard of. There is no real threat against me by extremists of any kind.

I know I can't ban fanaticism, because it's a state of mind. All that can be done is educate people, show them the path to a moderate belief (a live and let live sort of attitude), and hope it sticks.
The Continued Misadventures of Bonebird - a poor bird's quest for the ever-elusive and delicious apples.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM

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