General Discussion

Fuel Solutions.
shaneronzio at 10:51AM, April 21, 2008
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All of these talented and creative minds in one place, I have to ask…what is your suggestion for the fuel crisis.
As I type this, the local gas station is at $3.50 a gallon.
What else can be done?









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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
Product Placement at 11:30AM, April 21, 2008
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Bleh…. there's no ultimate solution. Most other alternative fuels cost about the same if not more to make. Also, since none of them have the production capabilities to match the current demand, if it were to replace gasoline, there would be huge initial cost to increase the production. And of course you'd have to replace all the cars and so on…..

We discussed biofuels earlier somewhere where we talked about how much of a dead end that was. Sure it's a gas supliment and thus could lower gas price if enough is produced but in return it uses a lot of farmland in production that could otherwise would be used to produce food. This increases the chances of famine which seems to be a growing threat today and consequently the food price goes up.

There are so many factors controlling the gas prices. A lot of third world countries are industrializing today, thus increasing the demand. The Middle East, where a lot of the oil reserves are, are currently unstable, thus decreasing production and increasing demand. Despite pleads to be conservative, people ignore requests to cut down fuel consumption. No one wants to car pool. No one wants to trade down their car for a more economic model (SUV=bad/compact=good doesn't seem to be registering with people). No one wants to bike or walk when they can and drive instead and most cities solve that problem by adding more lanes to cut down congestion instead of focusing on mass transit.

There are lots and lots of different things that can be done to reverse the trend. The question is: do you want to try to decrease the demand/increase production of gas to get the price down or do you want to switch to alternative fuels?

Also. I think you'll enjoy going through this.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
AQua_ng at 11:42AM, April 21, 2008
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I still think that we should go back to the days of horseback.

K.A.L.A-dan! Brigade Captain :D
K.A.L.A.-dan forums!
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:59AM
imshard at 11:46AM, April 21, 2008
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… well there are plenty of things we CAN do to reduce costs, or even alternative fuels we could use. The catch is most of them are extremely bad for human health and the environment. Thus the focus goes to things that are good for the air, and we hit a developmental brick wall. Hydrogen, flex fuels, hybirds, electric motors, ethanol, solar, etc. They are all prohibitively expensive, would require an overhaul of the infrastructure, and are not that effective. solutions like hybrid work great but still require gas, and do nothing for the masses of existing cars. Ethanol is more expensive in the end and hurts us in more areas than petroleum. Hydrogen would not only require new vehicles but new infrastructure for distributing it. Electric motors don't meet performance demands and suffer from multiple technical faults. Etc, etc, etc.

We'll just have to invade another oil-producing country, lol j/k.
Seriously though even if we came up with an effective replacement for gasoline, waaay too many people would still be using fleets of gasoline based cars.

I haven't figured out details yet, but what we need is some kind of cheap upgrade kit that anybody can put in their existing car that allows them to use an alternative fuel that can be distributed with little or no change to the existing network, until time and change can implement a more permanent solution and move older gas cars off the market.

Outside of that we can streamline the petroleum process, reduce gas taxes, or open more refineries to reduce costs.
Don't be a stick in the mud traditionalist! Support global warming!

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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
shaneronzio at 11:50AM, April 21, 2008
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Product Placement
Also. I think you'll enjoy going through this.
that was interesting…

So, other than ethanol and some others listed, what about some of Nikola Tesla's
inventions.

Why couldn't some back yard garage start fixing cars to run more efficiently.

sort of like …this guy…
http://www.loveforlife.com.au/taxonomy/term/861


it's not like earth is going to run out of salt water in the near future.
——————

imshard
I haven't figured out details yet, but what we need is some kind of cheap upgrade kit that anybody can put in their existing car that allows them to use an alternative fuel that can be distributed with little or no change to the existing network, until time and change can implement a more permanent solution and move older gas cars off the market.



This sounds very realistic.
a cheap upgrade kit…maybe if the engine could manage the combustion rate of the fuel more efficiently.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
kyupol at 3:13PM, April 21, 2008
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what about WATER as fuel?

In the Philippine Science School, I saw an engine that runs on water. It was on display. I couldnt believe it until I saw for myself.

But you may argue that water freezes. What about those countries that have winter?

Winter isn't 365 days a year. And most of the world population is in the equator areas where there is no winter.

If all those people in those places would be using water powered cars, then its very good for the environment.

But wait a minute. How will the oil cartels make (oink oink level) profits? If their clients will only be reduced to places where winter happens?

They dont give a shit about the environment. The politicians, and those big corporations who control the world.


Water Powered car







NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
RedScalp at 3:23PM, April 21, 2008
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I enjoy biking, cars are waaaay too much with the gas prices, and their slower since of traffic; depending where you live ofcrouse. I think everyone needs to do their part, instead of having a car to drive one person, carpool- saves a ton of money or bike/walk. I've been hearing that solar stuff has been improving alot over the last few years- getting cheaper also, give every house solar panels on the roof and that covers their power use.

I don't think theres going to be another magic cheap fuel like gas was sadly.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:03PM
shaneronzio at 4:01AM, April 22, 2008
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kyupol
They dont give a shit about the environment. The politicians, and those big corporations who control the world.



So, you are saying those big corporations are the ones who killed the electric car?


Do you really think that our own government would allow these companies to try and profit from Public suffering?

If that were true…then…these companies would be more of a threat than Obama bin Ladin.
;)

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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
djcoffman at 4:17AM, April 22, 2008
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I always use to say… “Be like Water” – The solution will be salt water actually. It sounds completely insane to most folks who have been programmed to believe there is no other way than EXXON, but it's a FACT. Here are some news reports from not only the guy who discovered how to “burn saltwater” and a guy who made a car running on a gas/water hybrid who the US Government has making Humvee engines that run exclusively on water. Nice of them to have it first, huh?

Water Engine Guy: http://youtube.com/watch?v=J9iWaCMbw60

Dude from Erie, PA who discovered how to endlessly burn Salt Water: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=salt+water+fuel&search_type=

You guys also may have seen a commercial from Honda that plays on tv that shows a car driving by the ocean where it says “what if we told you we could make a car that runs on water and only emits water vapor?”—- that is based on what you see in the Salt Water news link list above.

It's coming. A lot of change is coming, because the people are finally waking the hell up.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:12PM
Custard Trout at 4:38AM, April 22, 2008
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You could just walk instead.
Hey buddy, you should be a Russian Cosmonaut, and here's why.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:00PM
lothar at 6:11AM, April 22, 2008
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shaneronzio
Do you really think that our own government would allow these companies to try and profit from Public suffering?

LOL …. meh

the solution is - stop doing so much stuff , stop buying so much stuff, stop eating

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
skoolmunkee at 6:58AM, April 22, 2008
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Yes, I want to say saltwater is where it's going. Honda has some cool stuff going but I don't think their re-powering stations can be everywhere… cool as recharging a car with wind power is :)
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:41PM
shaneronzio at 8:40AM, April 22, 2008
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this caught my attention…


The Daimler Motorcycle

Makes me wonder if I should convert my old espresso machine into a vehicle.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
imshard at 3:52PM, April 22, 2008
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shaneronzio
Product Placement
Also. I think you'll enjoy going through this.
that was interesting…
So, other than ethanol and some others listed, what about some of Nikola Tesla's
inventions.
Why couldn't some back yard garage start fixing cars to run more efficiently.
sort of like …this guy…
http://www.loveforlife.com.au/taxonomy/term/861
it's not like earth is going to run out of salt water in the near future.
——————
imshard
I haven't figured out details yet, but what we need is some kind of cheap upgrade kit that anybody can put in their existing car that allows them to use an alternative fuel that can be distributed with little or no change to the existing network, until time and change can implement a more permanent solution and move older gas cars off the market.
This sounds very realistic.
a cheap upgrade kit…maybe if the engine could manage the combustion rate of the fuel more efficiently.

Indeed the main problem is not a lack of solutions it would seem but how difficult it would be to implement them.

A liquid fuel solution similar to gasoline in concept seems the most plausible, because it would be the path of least resistance. If you can use the same engine, gas tank, and Conoco/Philips pumping station then the change could happen overnight.
Most cars now are computer controlled, it would be a small thing to reprogram it to inject at a different rate for a new fuel type, in conjunction with say a new type of spark plug. You or your mechanic could pull off something easy like that in an hour. This is unlike most alternative solutions because they involve a major overhaul of at least one major aspect of the current system.

Plus this circumvents that one thing that ruins any other solution… you don't have to make everybody buy a new car.
Don't be a stick in the mud traditionalist! Support global warming!

Tech Support: The Comic!! Updates Somedays!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
Lonnehart at 5:08PM, April 22, 2008
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In high school I once suggested using human body heat to run the car. The one question I couldn't answer was what would happen if you and your significant other were making “body heat” in the back seat…

Nowadays there are cars powered by compressed air in development. Why not instead create a motor powered with compressed air that can be used to charge lithium ion batteries, which can themselves can be used to move the vehicle? We'd use a lot less fossil fuels that way.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
Atom Apple at 5:50PM, April 22, 2008
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Bicycle.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:07AM
worstcase at 5:56PM, April 22, 2008
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I've always thought solar was rather interesting…but its so expensive. My science teacher is always talking about biomass and makes us watch crap about Al Gore. We had to do a report on an An Inconvenient Truth

A lot of people in my city have started biking to work. The only problem is that they get really sweaty and nasty.

:) haha
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:51PM
anonymousposterchild at 7:03PM, April 22, 2008
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kyupol
what about WATER as fuel?

In the Philippine Science School, I saw an engine that runs on water. It was on display. I couldnt believe it until I saw for myself.

But you may argue that water freezes. What about those countries that have winter?

Winter isn't 365 days a year. And most of the world population is in the equator areas where there is no winter.

If all those people in those places would be using water powered cars, then its very good for the environment.

But wait a minute. How will the oil cartels make (oink oink level) profits? If their clients will only be reduced to places where winter happens?

They dont give a shit about the environment. The politicians, and those big corporations who control the world.


Water Powered car









God you're dumb.

So called water powered cars are run by breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen and then either using them in a fuel cell or burning it as a combustible fuel. Of course, it RUNS, but you run into a slight problem.

That problem being that this violates the fundamental laws of thermodynamics.

“But AnonymousPosterChild, what's that?” you ask. Well, I'll tell you, that's when the universe calls you a goddamn chucklefuck for thinking that you can get more energy out of something than you put into it. The energy required to break down the water into hydrogen and oxygen, where is it coming from?

The battery?

Well GREAT, you just invented the world's most inefficient ELECTRIC CAR.

“But the burning of the fuel will allow us to get energy back from the alternator.”

Hear that? The universe just called you a goddamn chucklefuck again. Any amount of power you would make back from the alternator would be significantly less than how much power is required to actually break down the water into it's base elements.

Jeez, kyupol, what have I told you about being SKEPTICAL?
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
kyupol at 7:08PM, April 22, 2008
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@anonymousposterchild - Why the fuck do you have to enter every single post I make then dick me around?

If you disagree with me, no need to insult me and and call me all kinds of names.

Fuck you.


NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
anonymousposterchild at 7:09PM, April 22, 2008
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kyupol
@anonymousposterchild - Why the fuck do you have to enter every single post I make then dick me around?

If you disagree with me, no need to insult me and and call me all kinds of names.

Fuck you.




Way to read, champ. Proved you wrong with basic 6th grade physics.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
FyreHyde at 7:14PM, April 22, 2008
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Actually Kyupol, me and my good friend the real world disagree with you as well. Also, so does every sane person who ever had fifth grade science.

Conservation of energy, conservation of mass.

You want to ponder violating those rules, go get yourself a supercollider and start smashing some atoms. Then read all about our good friend the nuclear power plant.

PERPETUAL ENGINES DO NOT EXIST

“IN THIS HOUSE, WE OBEY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS!!!” - Homer Simpson
“apc is a fat ugly cow” - Me
“pewp” - Muntron
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:32PM
ozoneocean at 10:28PM, April 22, 2008
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Oh you're all clever physics geniuses now… -_-

Personally, when I saw that water engine thing I just thought “bugger it, let them have their fun”

Ugh, no need to be rude about it guys. And Kyupol wasn't even the only one to talk about it. Singling him out much?

———————————–

I've stayed away from driving all my life. I catch buses, trains, ride bikes, walk, run… But even then I still need a lift occasionally, and thank goodness for that Taxi ride home on Saturday night!

The worst car atrocity in recent history isn't your “SUV” urban 4X4s, it's the willful encouragement of the car culture in China. A place once renowned for its use of the bicycle, now so totally overrun by cars that traffic in many places is impossible.
The first step to reducing dependence on oil is realising you don't really need cars as much as you think.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
anonymousposterchild at 11:14PM, April 22, 2008
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ozoneocean
Oh you're all clever physics geniuses now… -_-

Personally, when I saw that water engine thing I just thought “bugger it, let them have their fun”

Ugh, no need to be rude about it guys. And Kyupol wasn't even the only one to talk about it. Singling him out much?

The guy who “burns” saltwater still hasn't reached a point where it's efficient enough to be used as a fuel. It IS more efficient than electrolosys, but nowhere near enough to be anything other than an overunitist's wet dream. The only way to have hydrogen as a viable fuel source is to find MASSIVE amounts of it in it's pure state.

All the guy is doing is breaking down molecular bonds with radio waves. Nooooot really new.

edit: Hell, the guy himself admits that it isn't a viable fuel source. The only people stating that are overunitists and the media.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
Product Placement at 1:49AM, April 23, 2008
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Finding hydrogen is not hard at all. It's the most abundant element in the entire universe. Finding it in a pure state…. not so easy. This blasted element always seems to be too lonely on its own and is constantly binding it self to something else. It's possible to find pure hydrogen gas clouds in outer space I suppose but short of mining the Sun you'd have to travel a long way to find one. The saltwater solution is a clever approach to harvest the hydrogen out of the water but I don't know enough about it to say if it works well enough or not. For example, what is the byproduct of that process? If by running radio frequencies through salt water causes the hydrogen to break away, your left with some sort of mixture of sodium, chloride and oxygen. More importantly, will this byproduct be considered a pollutant?
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
shaneronzio at 4:58AM, April 23, 2008
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imshard
shaneronzio
Product Placement
Also. I think you'll enjoy going through this.
that was interesting…
****
a cheap upgrade kit…maybe if the engine could manage the combustion rate of the fuel more efficiently.

Indeed the main problem is not a lack of solutions it would seem but how difficult it would be to implement them.

A liquid fuel solution similar to gasoline in concept seems the most plausible, because it would be the path of least resistance…

All Things keep pointing towards
Biodiesel.


Current Project:CROSS WORLDS NEXUS
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
Product Placement at 5:57AM, April 23, 2008
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shaneronzio
All Things keep pointing towards
Biodiesel.


Well then we're back with the biofuel problem which is that it takes up land space that can otherwise be used to produce foodstuff for the public. With the ever growing threat of a global famine, I don't see how we can continue focusing on that kind of production.
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
shaneronzio at 7:10AM, April 23, 2008
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Product Placement
Well then we're back with the biofuel problem which is that it takes up land space that can otherwise be used to produce foodstuff for the public. With the ever growing threat of a global famine, I don't see how we can continue focusing on that kind of production.


O.K. another solution is the
magnetic engine
.


Current Project:CROSS WORLDS NEXUS
Updates Monday, Wenzday & FRIDAY
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
Highwind017 at 7:40AM, April 25, 2008
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I realy dont know what would replace the fuel we use now… (Fuel crisis were i live…)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:48PM
crazyninny at 1:33PM, April 25, 2008
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Well, we have tons and tons of deer here, why don't we use them to pull sleds to get us place to place?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:49AM
anonymousposterchild at 1:35PM, April 25, 2008
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crazyninny
Well, we have tons and tons of deer here, why don't we use them to pull sleds to get us place to place?

Why not just burn the deer as fuel? Don't have to feed them that way.
Official DrunkDuck curmudgeon
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM

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