Debate and Discussion

Fuzzy Logic
humorman at 11:02PM, March 30, 2008
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I find a lot of things today (especially on the internet) that manage to both astound and baffle me at the same time. I browse through internet forums from time to time, and every once in a while, I'll come across something that really makes me the question the logic of people.

For example, in a topic concerning whether or not the United States was justified in dropping the atomic bombs in Japan during WWII, a good amount of people responded that it was indeed justified because it even though it killed a lot of Japanese civilians, it probably would have saved more lives in the long run. Now in my opinion, I think it might have been a thought-out decision, but in no way was it completely justified. That would be like if you had two children that both needed liver transplants, but you only had one donor and you had to pick which child to save, you would pick the youngest child because he hasn't lived as much as the older sibling, then say to your older child, “Unfortunately, we're going to give the liver to your younger sibling, but it was a tough decision and we feel justified in making it.”

Now, I can see that everyone has their own definition of “justification”, but then I see these other posts about terrorism, and I keep seeing this same quote appear throughout them:

Someone
All Muslims may not be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim.

I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but using a stupid saying/statistic that doesn't even make sense to make their opinion appear as fact.
Basically, what I'm trying to ask is what makes people think like this and why are there so many people that think that way?

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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:51PM
Aurora Moon at 12:54AM, March 31, 2008
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Yeah, I know what you mean.

I've heard that expression about muslims too. So By that logic, all those disturbed kids who did school shootings, and all the past terrorists of the world must had been muslims…despite their Christain/Jewish/whatever upbringing.

To them, they can't grasp the simple fact that there can be fanatics and disturbed people in every group, even their own. That's too much of a complex thought for them… it's easier for them to feel that it's “Us VS THEM”.

I don't think that dropping atomic bombs ANYWHERE, for any war at all is ever justfied, no matter how much lives it “saved”. I can understand it from a stragetic viewpoint, espeically in ending the war, but it was still pretty damn awful.

Almost nothing about wars are ever justfied, after all. It's just a bunch of idiots murdering each other over something… whenever it might be money, politics, religion, etc. And in the end, what do we get?

We get kids who lost thier parents, people who got disfigured, and people who went in perfectly normal who came out of it very exemetely disturbed in more than one way. Wars competely removes the parts of humans that makes them… well, human.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
ozoneocean at 1:21AM, March 31, 2008
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Yes, the Terrorist==muslim statement is nothing but someone advertising they're not very intelligent lol!
Try telling that to the Basque separatists, the Tamil Tigers, the SLA, November 17, The FARC, the Aum Supreme truth cult… etc lol!
And that's only a small sample.

Yes, logic. Hmm. Logic is limited by accurate data. People don't seem to get that. The less knowledge you have and the more false knowledge and guesses, the weaker your reasoning.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
Frostflowers at 2:15AM, March 31, 2008
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Someone
All Muslims may not be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim.
…. You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts. Yes, there are a lot of Muslim terrorist groups - the fact that they have the concept of jihad makes it simpler for violent people to justify their acts with religion, even if the religion itself does not actively advocate blowing people to bits - but not all terrorists are Muslim.

Evidence, past and present: FARC, militant branches of the IRA, the Ulster Unionists, Red Army Faction/Baader-Meinhof, KKK, Khmer Rouge, Black Star, ETA, etc., etc. And this is funny - none of these widely known terrorist groups were Muslim. Also, Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma bomber, was white, American and Christian, but that didn't stop him from blowing people up.


People who think like that are ignorant. Perhaps they're willingly ignorant (i.e: refuse to take in the facts before forming an opinion) or perhaps they're simply not educated on the topics, but fact remains that they are ignorant. The Internet provides them with a place to state these opinions regardless of how in touch with reality they are, and when provided with this quick and easy way to spread their thoughts around, they don't bother to check the facts or sit back and think a little first.

As for why so many people think this way - it's easy. It's easy to jump on the first thing that comes along; it's easy to remain ignorant, because learning and forming your own opinion is hard; it's easy because agreeing with the majority means you've got someone else to back you up if you can't defend your own arguments.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
DAJB at 3:07AM, March 31, 2008
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Someone
all terrorists are Muslim.
I've never heard this. It really does highlight just how little understanding people have.

In their defence, I guess it's a view that the US administration is happy to let people believe. How else could they justify imprisoning hundreds of innocent people on no other grounds than their religion?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
SpANG at 8:57AM, March 31, 2008
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humorman
Now, I can see that everyone has their own definition of “justification”, but then I see these other posts about terrorism, and I keep seeing this same quote appear throughout them:
Someone
All Muslims may not be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim.
I find it hard to believe anyone said that, since you did not quote directly. In a sense, you are perpetuating a lie yourself by doing this.

Unless you'd like to prove someone DID actually say that. Then I'll go wail on HIM. ;)

EDIT/// Doing a quick search on this, I found only one instance in these forum where someone said this. OZONEOCEAN. But he was only expressing how stupid the sentiment would be if someone actually did say it.

Now, if you are talking about forums outside of this one, there will always be someone with an uneducated, ignorant opinion. That's the internet for ya.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Frostflowers at 10:25AM, March 31, 2008
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SpANG
humorman
Now, I can see that everyone has their own definition of “justification”, but then I see these other posts about terrorism, and I keep seeing this same quote appear throughout them:
Someone
All Muslims may not be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim.
I find it hard to believe anyone said that, since you did not quote directly. In a sense, you are perpetuating a lie yourself by doing this.

Unless you'd like to prove someone DID actually say that. Then I'll go wail on HIM. ;)

EDIT/// Doing a quick search on this, I found only one instance in these forum where someone said this. OZONEOCEAN. But he was only expressing how stupid the sentiment would be if someone actually did say it.

Now, if you are talking about forums outside of this one, there will always be someone with an uneducated, ignorant opinion. That's the internet for ya.
Well, humorman did say “Internet forums”, so I assumed he referred to forums outside of DD. In which case I can honestly believe that someone has said something so ungodly stupid and have honestly meant it - I've heard people express very similar opinions, though they were never word for word the same.
The Continued Misadventures of Bonebird - a poor bird's quest for the ever-elusive and delicious apples.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
humorman at 11:58AM, March 31, 2008
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SpANG
I find it hard to believe anyone said that, since you did not quote directly. In a sense, you are perpetuating a lie yourself by doing this.

Unless you'd like to prove someone DID actually say that. Then I'll go wail on HIM.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AuolkEYgrWBiG4.5qvD6W5IjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20070309173505AA38EpV

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Asaz1SsyO7SzABAsm53LTKIjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20060621102425AA0qXSC

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070902162346AAA7sDw&cp=1

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AgEHDiNECcFTkZeEpWwUuW0jzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20060816204629AAy5QU0

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=ArBvedrp8JlEElT1apEMoYojzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20070724105915AA0olJH


Now there are a lot of people in these posts that don't agree with that statement, but there are a quite a few who actually base their arguments on it, and some of them even get positive feedback!

Billy vs. Tree – The epic struggle of boy versus tree.
Sonic Colores – It looks like it's going to be a good game because I love how the way it makes me grow.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:51PM
lothar at 1:10AM, April 1, 2008
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it depends on who is defining “terrorism”
dictionary dot com says
terrorism = the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes

by that deffinition i would say their are just as many christian terrorists, if not more !

the only difference between an IED and an ICBM is the scale of destruction and the shelf life
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
SpANG at 2:38PM, April 1, 2008
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posts: 3,105
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humorman
SpANG
I find it hard to believe anyone said that, since you did not quote directly. In a sense, you are perpetuating a lie yourself by doing this.

Unless you'd like to prove someone DID actually say that. Then I'll go wail on HIM.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AuolkEYgrWBiG4.5qvD6W5IjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20070309173505AA38EpV

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Asaz1SsyO7SzABAsm53LTKIjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20060621102425AA0qXSC

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070902162346AAA7sDw&cp=1

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AgEHDiNECcFTkZeEpWwUuW0jzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20060816204629AAy5QU0

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=ArBvedrp8JlEElT1apEMoYojzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20070724105915AA0olJH


Now there are a lot of people in these posts that don't agree with that statement, but there are a quite a few who actually base their arguments on it, and some of them even get positive feedback!

Yep. And this is the internet. Where people say stupid things just to get a reaction. I still think the actual percentage of people that actually believe it are negligible. And idiots. Why let them have an affect on you?

“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM

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