Debate and Discussion

Girl in Comics or the Feminist in Me Complains Again
Bubb Lee at 2:55PM, July 12, 2007
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The generic personality of the super heroine is to have D-Cups, long flowing hair, be white, and to seduce everyone if not playing the nice girl next door. Sure some are smart, but their D-cups always come first in their list of assets.

So guys, is that the only type of girl that draws you to a comic?

And Girls what type of girl would you like to see in comics?

Are there any none stereotypical female characters that you really like (ex: Death from the Sandman Series)?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:35AM
marine at 3:33PM, July 12, 2007
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I don't like girls, they all seem to act alike. The ones that don't, people tend to brand them with inappropriate labels. I could elaborate, but it makes me sad.

Women, their cleavage, or anything involving them has never gotten me to read a comic book.

If asked if I would read a comic with tits or without, I'm going for the one that shows tits and has big ones. Its generally going to be a crazier comic book.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
ZeroVX at 4:54PM, July 12, 2007
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Funny you should mention Death. She's actually one of my favourite comic characters.

Big boobs isn't the main reason for me reading a comic. If I see some, I'll usually go “Oh hey, that's nice”, but I won't focus on them.

I'm actually more interested in seeing the bad guys getting beat up.
“If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost 100,000 people…..would you really wanna know?”

V for Vendetta, V.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:58PM
Rori at 7:40PM, July 12, 2007
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This made me flashback to the whole “bad girl” trend. God, I'm glad that died down.
(btw–if you haven't already, you should check out “bizarre breasts” on SequentialTart).

Anywho, two of my fave girl characters are Julie and Sarah from the Maxx. I definitely appreciated them as a teenager (and still do). I liked Hope O'Dare from Starman, and I've always had a soft spot for Emma Frost (totally boobilicious, yeah, but she's such a BITCH! I love it!). I remember I used to read Silver Sable, because I was like, awesome, bad-ass mercenary chick; but for some reason I've forgotten, I felt it got to “bad girl” and gave up reading it.

What attracts me is good character development(not a goodly developed character, nyuk nyuk). It's nice when the artist has some grasp of normal anatomy, too. I'm just not attracted to the fiercely overblown stuff, even in hero comics (unless there's a good reason for it).
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:11PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 8:11PM, July 12, 2007
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I'm not one of those people who gets off on cartoons so cleavage in comics doesn't affect my decision.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:04AM
Hawk at 8:14PM, July 12, 2007
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We were discussing the topic of feminism in a previous thread, but that one seems to have run its course. I'm intrigued by something that was asked earlier, and I hope some girls answer.

Girls, what type of women do you like to see in comics?
Can you name some existing examples?
Are the girls you your comics good examples of the way you want to see women portrayed?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Aurora Moon at 10:00PM, July 12, 2007
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Well, as an woman, I don't mind seeing sexy women wearing very little in comics….as long as it's clear that they're just not some mindless fan service, but that they actually serve an purpose.

I love reading Heavy Metal, for all it often naked or half-nude babes… but that's not why I like to read that comic. I like how often times those women are often put in positions of power, where they're not just timid or weak, or even some stupid bimbo who served as the “sexual lure” for readers. Although I also just read for the excellent artwork.

Take that one Heavy Metal movie.. the first one with that orb, that is. Near the end, we have this lady warrior who seems to be mute since she doesn't really speak at all and rather let her actions speak for her. Anyway she walks into this bar, and then there's all those male creatures perving on her, and one of them goes too far (actually grabbing her breasts) and she promtly slices his head off with her sword. Then the males are all suddenly well behaved after she gives them all this glaring look afterward.

Now that's really a powerful woman who doesn't take shit from anybody, regardless of how she might look to others. I like that.

But basically I don't really care about the size of a fictional woman's breasts, unless they're impossibly large (literally twice the size of watermelons) where it'd be impossible for her to be standing somehow. Although when poked fun at, I could see that working for the sake of parodies.

so basically the things I like in an comic: some mild nudity by both males and women, some violence, a good storyline (a must!!), and plenty of action if there's no violence. And if it doesn't have any of those, then it HAS TO BE DAMN FUNNY!!

I don't care if the heroine looks like a stereotypical Blondie bimbo who doesn't even know how to dress herself properly, as long as she doesn't act like one.

But of course, I've been told that I'm a unusual woman….the same woman who loves Cutey Honey, Tomb Raider, and stuff like that when other women complained that those games and anime were “sexist”. Although I don't see how they were sexist.
True, Tomb Raider had an skinny woman that had huge hits but for all that she pulled off amazing feats as an raider. For me it's “focus not on how she looks, focus on what she can do!”
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
subcultured at 10:27PM, July 12, 2007
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i don't really care bout drawing outside of stereotypes.
i draw the type of girls that i like.
their qualities, superficially and emotionally.

if they fall into a stereotype, so be it.
it's still my drawing, no one is gonna force me to draw something i don't want to draw just to be PC.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM
EmilyTheStrange at 5:04AM, July 13, 2007
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I don't mind one or two mega chested women in a story as long as there's variety with the rest of the characters. Like I'd much rather look at a cast containing people who are build like normal people are rather than having every girl mega skinny and every guy tall and muscular. There are real girls out there who fit the American comics steriotype build but there are twice as many who are short, over weight, flat chested, ect. Same with guys, when you add variation to the steriotype it adds flavor to the story. (It makes the characters easier to tell apart, too.)

I'll admit in my comics I don't really have that much variation in my character's body types (most of them are skinny and a bit on the short side) but I've been trying to slowly introduce it. >> I will say, though, my main girl character is flat chested and gets mistaken for a guy in drag a LOT (might be because of the yoai pretty boy thing that a lot of girls my age do) so I actually had to, well, “increase her size” a bit so that people would realize she was female. When this first happened I thought it was because people only wanted to look at girls with large assets, but in retrospect I realized that she really didn't look or act like a girl at all. In order to make her recognisable as a girl I'd just have to try and find other ways for her to look feminine while still keeping her tomboy 'tude intact. ^_^ Finding solutions for that has actually been a lot of fun…

Anyways, yeah, big boobs ok as long as there are other body types in the story too. : D
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:21PM
flyingwind66 at 10:52AM, July 13, 2007
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EmilyTheStrange
…when you add variation to the steriotype it adds flavor to the story. (It makes the characters easier to tell apart, too.)

Anyways, yeah, big boobs ok as long as there are other body types in the story too. : D

This I definitely agree with. When boobs are too big, I guess it gets a bit distracting but it's not really something I've been totally bothered about. After drawing a bit of my comic I did notice that ‘everyone looked the same’ body wise and I tried to incorporate different body types into specifically the ‘extra’ characters (you know, the ones that fill up the scene like in a street or a classroom) When I'm looking at my main characters I take into account the type of ‘work’ they do. Like, what kind of things do these people do on a daily bases that would give them those lean muscles or lack thereof… I spent a lot of time looking at pictures of different athletes to figure out their body type. A long distance runner is built different than a sprinter as a dancer is built different from a gymnast.

So, back to boobs, I noticed that in some sports, girls have less boob, it probably has a bit to do with the ‘body type’ that does best in the sport but I'm going to speak in general terms. I've rarely seen a ballet dancer with more than average sized boobs… like I look around my dance studio and everyone's boobs are usually less-than-average with the occasional ‘average’ here and there and that's about the same with gymnasts. So I guess my only problem with huge boobs is if it's logical…

Now, with the stereotypes… meh they don't bother me so long as there's not just one stereotype. So like, if there's a bimbo, as long as EVERY girl isn't a bimbo then I'm ok… For example the anime Love Hina has too many stereotypes… I really dislike that show because no matter which girl it was, or what situation it was, they'd always react the same ‘omg! pervert!’ then promptly bashing him on the head without letting the guy even attempt to explain himself.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:30PM
Vindibudd at 12:15PM, July 13, 2007
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Bubb Lee
The generic personality of the super heroine is to have D-Cups, long flowing hair, be white, and to seduce everyone if not playing the nice girl next door. Sure some are smart, but their D-cups always come first in their list of assets.

So guys, is that the only type of girl that draws you to a comic?

And Girls what type of girl would you like to see in comics?

Are there any none stereotypical female characters that you really like (ex: Death from the Sandman Series)?


My answer to that is how many male superheros are there that don't have large biceps? The reason is because the hero is the archetype of the best example of the group that he or she is representing. As far as it being white or black or anything else, that's a racist comment to make. People are going to draw what they find interesting, and the best thing to do is to draw what one knows.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
freefall_drift at 6:19PM, July 13, 2007
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This what you were talking about?

Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
Hawk at 6:25PM, July 13, 2007
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Do we have to make this about boobs again? After all the threads about Craving Control you'd think we'd pretty much fully explored the subject.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
blntmaker at 7:25PM, July 13, 2007
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Hawk
Do we have to make this about boobs again? After all the threads about Craving Control you'd think we'd pretty much fully explored the subject.

Hawk makes a great point. And here's something else I you may have heard before - “It's ALL relative”. I think, depending on the kind of artist you are or what motivates your creativity - a female character doesn't necessarily need to be defined by her bosoms to make her mark or to be effective.

Though I'm sure it helps with readership for visual appeal to a mostly male audience, it just might be insulting to the large body of intelligent male readers (or female) who enjoy smart storytelling paired with stylistic artwork.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, PLEASE don't tell me that Joe Q. Webcomic Reader is a sex hungry, anti-social, hedonist that enjoys ONLY boobs and nothing else…

Take away the BOOBS from something like Craving Control and you STILL have a comic that works. Something that carries a social responsible message…

“Don't eat or drink so damn much…”

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:26AM
mlai at 7:59PM, July 13, 2007
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freefall_drift

Maybe if she sewed up that huge gaping hole in front of her suit, people would start looking at her face.

The area where my eyes lingered the longest on that page is actually her hand, because what little of it is there is drawn well. Her breasts are obscene and her face is nothing to write home about. (Prolly reason #2 ppl don't look at her face.)

The female form is more than just SIZE. The contours and scapes are an art onto itself. To concentrate simply on size, you might as well draw a stickman with extra bubbles. The beauty of women are meant to cater to a more refined taste, to be appropriately worshipped. Artless pubescents only care about gross caricatures, but that's why they don't get any women anyways - they're not qualified.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
marine at 9:17PM, July 13, 2007
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I always really like stories about revenge or justice. Like that type of Dirty Harry, Wolverine, or Punisher style of comic. Where the good guy isn't all that good because he kills the bad guys and doesn't take orders from anybody, but at the end of the day you know he's the doing the right thing. Thats cool to me.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
simonitro at 11:05PM, July 13, 2007
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Well, I design my female characters depending on the storyline. That doesn't mean, they have to have huge breast etc… I don't mind designing different styles of women… if someone feels it is a stereotype, I wouldn't change it because I don't mind controversy happening when writting a comic. I like that my comics are controvertial, so, I don't mind putting whatever I want but still respectable to the site's rules.

My favorite female character ever is Claire Redfield from Resident Evil series. She doesn't seem to have huge breasts and all, but her character is interesting for me to favor her… she's a biker, passionate, and welling to fight kinda girl and I this style!

Anyway, everyone does have their opinions whether someone feels this and that are stereotypical but I don't want to offend anyone on my comics but I respect all types of people whether it's race, sex, religion, etc…


Enjoy… Las Vegas-y
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:37PM
TheTopHat at 4:01PM, July 14, 2007
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Well im not getting into the hole ‘this only sell because off the big boobs bit’ because i've had this convertion too many times. Hoever looking back on what Hawk
said.

Hawk
Girls, what type of women do you like to see in comics?
Can you name some existing examples?
Are the girls you your comics good examples of the way you want to see women portrayed?

Well the charter in comic i really like are ones with a good storie behide then and delvopment with in the charter. Thing that happen to charter sould effect them, for better or wose.
I'll use the sandman as its already been taked about, can anyone remeder Lyta. Veiw out the comic she can for a knere comatos charter that was really there only too be ise as the wife too the charter that becomes the mad woman who kills the sandman in the end. Cool charter well her and Rose.
The poeple in may comic can't help but be reilisic because i do a slice of life comic. sadly becuse off the way i do it you don't get great chater delopment becuse i note really telling a storie. However i wont change poeple from how they are in reilty for the comic. Boob size included, if there a 34A there a A, same if there a D or hell even if they a G or a man with man boobs. They look how they look.

Okay im done. hope that helps.



last edited on July 14, 2011 4:28PM
TnTComic at 9:36AM, July 15, 2007
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Bubb Lee
The generic personality of the super heroine is to have D-Cups, long flowing hair, be white, and to seduce everyone if not playing the nice girl next door. Sure some are smart, but their D-cups always come first in their list of assets.

Do me a favor and tell me what the male comic stereotype is again?

Exaggeration is not exclusively applied to boobs in comics.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Aurora Moon at 6:43PM, July 15, 2007
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TnTComic
Bubb Lee
The generic personality of the super heroine is to have D-Cups, long flowing hair, be white, and to seduce everyone if not playing the nice girl next door. Sure some are smart, but their D-cups always come first in their list of assets.

Do me a favor and tell me what the male comic stereotype is again?

Exaggeration is not exclusively applied to boobs in comics.

yep. I don't care that much about the stereotypical females in the comics, but when it comes to the stereotypical DC/Marvel males…… ewwwwww!!!

I happen to think that muscles, if a male has too many of it, looks really ugly and gross. it's a real turn off for me both in the sexual term and also in just beauty/handsome-ness term. such a thing can actually make me kind of pyshically ill just looking at all those muscles.
THAT is why I don't really read that much DC/Marvel stuff, because most of the stuff has those ridlicously musclar guys that I find to be so unattractive on so many levels!

At least in Manga they had variety when it comes to the guys.. not everyone was musclar!
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Puff at 8:22PM, July 15, 2007
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I'm a girl and I don't mind seeing big-busted women in comics because… it's FICTIONAL! If we can have worlds where superheroes are pew-pewing laser beams at eachother, why can't we have a world where all the women are thin with big boobs? Now, I agree with what most of the people here said, if they're abnormally large or unusually round, that's just sort of “Ew, mutation…” in my book, but if they're drawn right, I don't care!

It's not like there's a biggoted old white man in a room somewhere drawing big boobs on women to tell us how we're “supposed” to be! It's not insulting to women at ALL from my point of view. Some women are really touchy these days though.
Insufficient funds, banner reposessed! >:0

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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:54PM
freefall_drift at 9:31AM, July 16, 2007
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Aurora Moon
I happen to think that muscles, if a male has too many of it, looks really ugly and gross.
And the illogical extension is ….
Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
patrickdevine at 9:25PM, July 16, 2007
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When I design a female character I try to make her odd somehow but try to keep it believable. When I designed Cricket I drew her as showing a bit of cleavage (though she's not all that well endowed… c-cup at best.) but she's also got ratty, curly, messy hair, has facial piercings and wears a scuffed jacket. I drew her that way because I get bored drawing buxom, busty, blondes with soft flowy hair, so I decided to draw a character that was none of those things.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:41PM
Aurora Moon at 3:51PM, July 17, 2007
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freefall_drift
Aurora Moon
I happen to think that muscles, if a male has too many of it, looks really ugly and gross.
And the illogical extension is ….

yep, that has to be the most ugliest superhero I've ever seen. I don't think I would ever want to read the comic.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
herio at 2:57AM, July 18, 2007
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yes i can only draw em big and im not good at it

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
Kristen Gudsnuk at 4:58AM, July 18, 2007
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I feel like the bigger problem than the bodies of the ladies in comics, is their personalities. I generally HATE women in fiction, because they're so freaking annoying! either they're too clingy and wimpy, or even worse, they're the so-called “strong women” who can do anything and everything, ‘mouths are agape in wonder at the beauty and innate intelligence and talent of this girl!’
take… inu-yasha, for instance (not my favorite series, but..) is there ANYONE out there who actually likes Kagome? I feel like her character was designed to make inu-yahsa even more awesome and multi-faceted.
sure, there are girls in my comic, but I try reallly hard to make them likeable. I don't know if I've succeeded, but I tried to avoid the whole ‘innate talent and wisdom’ thing, but they're not all weak and lame (ok… eve might be that, a little.)

I guess it comes down to gender stereotypes. it's not that men are less stereotyped than women in fiction, it's just that the stereotypes are kinder to men than to women. the stereotypical woman in fiction is beautiful and needs to be babied, and is little more than an ornament for the man.
compare that to the typical byronic hero… (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byronic_hero) yup, he sounds pretty hot. just reading that description makes ME wanna read some Lord Byron.

so that's my two cents.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:22PM
TnTComic at 5:49AM, July 18, 2007
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I'm not bothered by stereotypes in comics because I know they're not supposed to represent me. In that same way, i'm not bothered or affected by male models or body builders, also because i'm not supposed to look like them.

This is something that has always bugged me about people who gripe about the pressures the media puts on people to look a certain way. Who does? The MODEL on the magazine? The ACTRESS in the movie? Am I an actor or a model? No. Then why would I aspire to look like one? I'm not a stripper, so I don't dress like one. I'm not a carpenter, so I don't hammer shit all day. It seems to me that the only people who would feel pressure to look like the model on the magazine are other models.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
MagickLorelai at 6:19AM, July 18, 2007
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TnT, well, great that you have the self confidence, but a lot of other people form their opinion of themselves with influence from their culture, hoping to live up to the standards to be “accepted”. If you're taught from a young age that only a certain type of woman is beautiful to be on the cover of magazines or on TV, and you want to be beautiful, and the “world” is telling you that “This” is beautiful…Well. *shrug* Some people resist it, others succumb to it.

I think comics have a bit more freedom, because they AREN'T real.They're fiction. Personally, I agree with others, I'm tired of some of the female stereotypes- either completely wimpy and unable to handle any crisis without her friends, or the completely self-sufficient Mary-Sue that crumples so that her beloved can save her, or just the amazingly talented and perfect women who have big boobs, and hate that they have big boobs, ‘cuz no one takes them seriously.

Not that I’m innocent of steering clear of stereotypes…*innocent whistle*

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:50PM
mlai at 6:37AM, July 18, 2007
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Kristen Gudsnuk
take… inu-yasha, for instance (not my favorite series, but..) is there ANYONE out there who actually likes Kagome? I feel like her character was designed to make inu-yahsa even more awesome and multi-faceted.

yup, he sounds pretty hot. just reading that description makes ME wanna read some Lord Byron.

I like Kagome's voice actress… she makes Kagome's annoying lines into funny lines. I like Kikyo much more. A chaste inviolate exterior hiding a turbulent interior.

Too often, a woman is shown to be subdued by her love for a man. To avoid this, generic powerful women (example, Lara Croft) is attached to no man, or is lesbian (example, Matoko Kusanagi). Because the stereotype is that no matter how strong the woman, true love would cow her and reveal a woman's true nature as meek and giving.

Kikyo defies this stereotype. She does love, but she is a woman who hates as passionately as she loves. True love neither subverts nor redeems her personality.

Reading Lord Byron has ruined many a young girl… Ooooo~

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
SteveMyers22 at 11:54AM, July 18, 2007
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Bubb Lee
Are there any none stereotypical female characters that you really like (ex: Death from the Sandman Series)?


At this point, I'd say Death from the endless is stereotypical. Just not super hero genre specific. But as the cute, quirky, spunky goth-girl type of character, she's about as stereotypical as it gets. Granted we're now very far removed from Gaiman's Vertigo work. So she was a bit of a pioneer. But girl characters like that now infest a lot of non-super hero work these days.

Bubb Lee
So guys, is that the only type of girl that draws you to a comic?

It's hit or miss with female super heroes, just like it is with male super heroes. I like Thor. I don't like The Sentry. I like The Flash. I don't like Captain Atom all that much. I like The Wasp. I'm not that big a fan of Ms. Marvel. I like Mera, Aquaman's wife (though she recently got portrayed with much larger breasts) and I'm not a very big fan of Wonder Woman these days (who Adam Hughes I believe is currently working on an All-Star version that will be the cheesecake to end all cheesecake!)

I stopped really caring about their body shape other than to notice that they all seem interchangable half the time. And have really just been focusing on their stories and their actions.

Bubb Lee
Are there any none stereotypical female characters that you really like (ex: Death from the Sandman Series)?

In super hero genre, I like Monica Rambeau from Marvel Comics (the black female Captain Marvel/Photon/Pulsar). But her recent characterization in Next Wave by Warren Ellis made her sort of stereotypical again.

Then again, Night Mask in Ellis' New Universal isn't stereotypical and so far has been pretty fascinating. Again on an Ellis vibe, Jenny Sparks from The Authority wasn't very stereotypical either.

Non-genre, I've always found Jim Mahfood's GRRRRL Scouts to be both extremely reprehensible and yet very hard to stop reading. Definitely a love/hate thing going on there.

And David Lapham's Amy Racecar is the cat's meow.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:58PM

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