Debate and Discussion

Girl in Comics or the Feminist in Me Complains Again
DAJB at 9:26AM, Oct. 13, 2007
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ozoneocean
I wonder why we don't have any female hero characters like that around the place?
I blame the cult of the anti-hero. Most, if not all, super heroes created since the 1980s have had a darker side to them. The traditional Golden and Silver Age heroes who didn't have one have had one grafted onto them. What were nice guys are now violent thugs, or womanisers, or money grabbers or just generally morally questionable. Given the success the majors have had with their darker “heroes”, it was only logical they would try to do the same with their heroines.

There are the obvious candidates (Huntress, Barda) but even the iconic golden girl herself, Wonder Woman, has suffered. In her early incarnations, she battled bad guys but always had a smile and a genuine concern for the well-being of others. Now, nine times out of ten, she just scowls.

She scowls because she's misunderstood by the men around her. She scowls because other super heroines resent her. She scowls because she can't understand how things work in Man's World (after how many decades?!) She scowls because she's angry. She scowls because her warrior self is at odds with her diplomat self. I think she possibly scowls more often than Batman these days.

I assume the fascination with anti-heroes will eventally run its course and, whilst we'll always want to have a few lurking in the shadows, it'll be nice to see some more heroes (male and female) who actually have moral standards and something more than a passing acquaintance with a few social skills.

*******************

Oh, and by the way, I learned recently that tomorrow is Wonder Woman Day. Just in case, like me, you didn't know there was one!

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
Bella Blue at 9:28AM, Oct. 13, 2007
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Well I guess I'm guilty of depicting myself as the “Stereo-typical girl next door”, I never really thought about it being demeaning, or cliche. I don't think I'm a bad person for it, but maybe I should put another girl character in my comic; one with more attitude. I'll ask some of my friends if they would like to be drawn in.
Check out a comic about me and… my pants!
BELLA IN BELL BOTTOMS
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Updates Dailey!!!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
smkinoshita at 9:33AM, Oct. 13, 2007
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Muah ha ha ha haaaaaaa!!! I have started the SELF PLUG of DAMNATION!!

Ever so often I get struck by a “Super Villain” moment. Not ‘cause I’m evil… it's just I can't resist doing a cheesy line now and then.

I have to admit, I sorta slid into the “plug” ‘cause I was tired when I wrote it, and when I’m tired I ramble. Like right now – you've been warned.

I want to touch on the “Super Bitch” syndrome. I didn't watch Xena. I was never a fan of it or Hercules, although I did see bits and pieces of it and since my friends liked it I got some exposure to it whether I liked it or not.

Xena had a bad case of the “Yappy Dog” syndrome. It's not a female-only problem, but I notice it more in badly written female characters. When they want to create a “bad ass” female character, they basically have her spend way too much time trying to show she's as bad ass as possible. Instead of just being a strong, confident and capable individual, she spends a great deal of time doing lines and tough-character routines to prove she's bad ass – much like a little yappy dog tries to prove its ferocity by barking constantly.

Of course, super-hero comics are worse when they do this. Not only is she trying to be “bad ass” but she's doing it while dressed like a high-priced call girl.

And yeah… I'm with you ozoneocean, nothing is more irritating when a female character is built up to be a true super-hero only to be trounced as soon as a male walks in.

I was trying to think of a good female character in popular media… and the one that came to mind at last was Princess Leia from Star Wars. She basically did what had to be done, she had a bit of an attitude but not to the point of being “bad ass”, and if you put her in bondage gear she will strangle you with the chains.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:49PM
kyupol at 10:59AM, Oct. 13, 2007
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I was trying to think of a good female character in popular media…

I like:

- Belldandy from Oh My Goddess
- Hinata from Naruto

Well I guess I'm guilty of depicting myself as the “Stereo-typical girl next door”, I never really thought about it being demeaning, or cliche.

There is nothing to be guilty about. It is NOT demeaning and its something you have to be proud of. Why? Its an indication you can make a SUPERIOR mother than any of your friends. Why? Its an indication you are more likely to find yourself a man who is a winner in life and not some pathetic woman abuser who will leave you the moment he finds someone younger/bigger boobs/etc….

I also hate it when feminists try to make women like that look bad while spouting racist drivel against non-western females and calling them WEAK. Weak? Read about Princesa Urduja, Reyna Sima, Gabriella Silang, etc… But isn't feminism about women's right to choose? If its YOUR CHOICE to be a “girl next door”, isn't that WOMEN's CHOICE too?


I know where you're coming from. It is PEER PRESSURE. I got peer pressure too as a guy to be an asshole/dickhead/etc… since being a guy has much more dog-eat-dog into it. The moment you show weakness, you WILL attract the wrath of the world on you. No. It doesnt matter if you got a bad childhood or any disadvantage… be it physical or financial or emotional or what not. If you DO NOT carry yourself like an alpha male (or to any degree of being an alpha male) you will not attract sympathy but rather the WRATH OF THE WORLD. Your weakness as a man will BRING YOU MORE SUFFERING.

Unlike women where being weak will bring you sympathy.



NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
kyupol at 11:25AM, Oct. 13, 2007
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mlai
I know you don't like my comic FIGHT 2 but that's exactly what my female protagonist is. The classic Lawful Good type who's not a hardcase and who's polite to friend and foe alike.

I think my bitch-o-meter reads about 38% when I aimed it at her. lol!

It may go down or up. Its not even 100 pages yet.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
mlai at 11:56AM, Oct. 13, 2007
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I assume the fascination with anti-heroes will eventally run its course
I would hope that with the success of Smallville and the FAIL of Spiderman 3 (critically if not financially), the suits would realize that it has already run its course.

Instead of just being a strong, confident and capable individual, she spends a great deal of time doing lines and tough-character routines to prove she's bad ass
Yeah empty posing's dumb. That's why my female protagonist has not once drawn her sword from her scabbard in… 31 pages and counting.

But that's because I remember the advice from me pappy: “Don't ever draw a gun at someone unless you intend to use it immediately.” (And I'm being true to the character.) Not that I have gun. It's a metaphorical gun. Me pappy talks in weapons metaphors.

I think my bitch-o-meter reads about 38% when I aimed it at her.
LOL where's this meter? I wanna give it a spin.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
DAJB at 2:34PM, Oct. 13, 2007
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mlai
I think my bitch-o-meter reads about 38% when I aimed it at her.
LOL where's this meter? I wanna give it a spin.
Me too!

I have a couple of female characters (although they haven't appeared in that portion of my comic which is online at DD yet) that I would love to test!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
crazyninny at 7:22PM, Oct. 13, 2007
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I know we talked a lot about the big boobed super heros, but what about all those small chested heros?

In modern cartoons, girls are always seen as skinny, small chested women. Whats up with that? Can't there be some more shapen girls? I'm pretty sure not everyone in the world is a A cup. *As in Sailor Moon, and Fruits Basket.*
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:48AM
ozoneocean at 8:34PM, Oct. 13, 2007
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Bella Blue
Well I guess I'm guilty of depicting myself as the “Stereo-typical girl next door”
Make her a Dockworker. :)

I don't think boob size is that crucial really, it's a design aesthetic. Heroines for boys have bigger boobs, ones for girls have smaller ones. When you say “modern cartoons” you most;ly mean Japanese cartoons eh? Well they generally have a thing for small breasts anyway, even when it is for boys. And as for everyone else, cartoons are still seen as mostly for kids so they're not allowed to look at big wobbly titties. lol!

Hahaha, and as for character personalities… I like to make Pinky in Pinky TA what I see as “normal”. Yep, she sometimes wears very sexy clothes, but there're cultural reasons for it in the comic, plus she's mega confident and I don't see anything wrong with sexuality expressed that way. Her personality when she relates to people can be secretive, commanding, bossy, aggressive, friendly, whatever: it depends on the situation and the person. She's no one's floor mat though! And neither is she some uber-able perfect super person.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
crazyninny at 8:47PM, Oct. 13, 2007
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ozoneocean
When you say “modern cartoons” you most;ly mean Japanese cartoons eh?

Well, they do have the biggest base for that, but I was actually thinking about some cartoons I used to watch that we'er made in Italy that had only small chested girls. ^_^

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:48AM
horseboy at 4:01AM, Oct. 14, 2007
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Wow, I wonder sometimes at the little things I missed not reading “super hero” comics. About the only comic I read that had a female something in it would have been Elfquest.

Out of curiosity, how does the late Mrs. Bonnie De Angelo fit into this discussion?
There is no such word as “alot”. “A lot” is two words.
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Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
Aurora Moon at 1:52PM, Oct. 14, 2007
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kyupol
I like:

- Belldandy from Oh My Goddess
- Hinata from Naruto

Belldandy?! UGGGHHHH. She's not a good character at all… she's way too much of a MARY SUE!

“Look at me!! I'm so PERFECT, I'm so sweet and nice and plus I'm super powerful and will blow up things or nearly end the world if I feel uspet but try to hide it! I won't get in trouble with the big man himself for it nethier. And oh, nobody will ever dislike me or hate me!! You know why? Because I'm a fucking Goddess!!”

I wish she would get torn apart by rabid dogs. =P

Hinata I understand though…Now that's a great example of a sweet cute girl.

I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
mlai at 3:14PM, Oct. 14, 2007
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Aurora Moon
Hinata I understand though…Now that's a great example of a sweet cute girl.
I've been wondering what she's gonna look like in Naruto Shippuuden.

There was one scene of her in regular Naruto, where the animators accidentally drew her taller and thinner. That's prolly what she'll look like.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
Aurora Moon at 4:01PM, Oct. 14, 2007
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mlai
Aurora Moon
Hinata I understand though…Now that's a great example of a sweet cute girl.
I've been wondering what she's gonna look like in Naruto Shippuuden.

There was one scene of her in regular Naruto, where the animators accidentally drew her taller and thinner. That's prolly what she'll look like.

actually I've seen a picture of her for that series… she's the same build still. just longer legs and different outfit as well as the hair. :) you'd just have to see for yourself to see what I mean.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
mapaghimagsik at 12:34PM, Oct. 15, 2007
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ozoneocean
I like to make Pinky in Pinky TA what I see as “normal”. Yep, she sometimes wears very sexy clothes, but there're cultural reasons for it in the comic,

This comment makes me snort milk out my nose. I love your drawing style oo, so I hope you take this as tongue in cheek as it was meant to be…but saying there ‘cultural reasons’ … oh man…


“Yes, she's a nymphomaniac ninja schoolgirl pirate, but there are cultural reasons….”

No, I don't think you're drawing nymphomaniac ninja schoolgirls, but you can see how “its a cultural issue” can be pretty funny. Its like, “You have to be tolerant of my bigotry” or “I kill the rest of the party because its in my character.” or “She wears only a thong because she's from a culture of stripper ninjas”

No one ever writes about the thong society being wiped out by an ice age. Though we do know why all seem to draw the final battle between the stripper thong ninjas and “Mr Freeze”

Please take this post in good fun, and if not, then blame it on my culture.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
trevoramueller at 1:36PM, Oct. 15, 2007
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ozoneocean
I don't think boob size is that crucial really, it's a design aesthetic. Heroines for boys have bigger boobs, ones for girls have smaller ones. When you say “modern cartoons” you most;ly mean Japanese cartoons eh? Well they generally have a thing for small breasts anyway, even when it is for boys. And as for everyone else, cartoons are still seen as mostly for kids so they're not allowed to look at big wobbly titties. lol!

I agree that boob size isn't important, in the sense that a female character shouldn't be running around with breasts that would clearly knock her out if she ever broke into a run. I think a female character (or women in general) are more attractive when they're body is proportioned to itself. Meaning, nothing should stand out or be too noticeable. It should just “flow,” if that makes sense. You can have attractive women who are heavier (or voluptuous or curvacious) with them still being very attractive. Likewise, a girl who's too skinny but has large breasts is not attractive to me - again, because her figure does not flow; it doesn't fit.

However, I disagree that modern Japanese cartoon characters for boys are “less well-endowed” - especially in the fantasy and sci-fi genre. Sure, there are examples where a female character has smaller breasts (Battle Angel Alita), but there are also many examples where female characters have breasts that are far too large (Gantz). I don't mind that so much in anime (although I'm not attracted to those characters), so much as I mind the T&A outfits that they wear….

My big problem with female character portrait in anime is the outfits. Ghost in the Shell has the main character being naked in the film to turn invisible, and has her running around in a bathing suit for most of the anime series - and I think unnecessarily so. That turns your strong female protagonist into eye candy instead of a respected character and experienced team leader. I think it's completely unnecessary to do this to a female character - however, I'm not opposed to a female character dressing up for proper occasions, like a bathing suit when going to the beach or a lower-cut top when going out on a date or to the bar / club with her friends. That's just realistic.

Running around in a bathing suit in government buildings seems a bit out of place to me, though.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 4:33PM
kyupol at 4:09PM, Oct. 16, 2007
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Belldandy?! UGGGHHHH. She's not a good character at all… she's way too much of a MARY SUE!

my unrealistic idealistic version of how a female should be. Nuff said. lol!
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
horseboy at 9:58PM, Oct. 16, 2007
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trevoramueller
My big problem with female character portrait in anime is the outfits. Ghost in the Shell has the main character being naked in the film to turn invisible, and has her running around in a bathing suit for most of the anime series - and I think unnecessarily so. That turns your strong female protagonist into eye candy instead of a respected character and experienced team leader. I think it's completely unnecessary to do this to a female character - however, I'm not opposed to a female character dressing up for proper occasions, like a bathing suit when going to the beach or a lower-cut top when going out on a date or to the bar / club with her friends. That's just realistic.

Running around in a bathing suit in government buildings seems a bit out of place to me, though.
I always thought that was to emphasize her non-human nature. The fact that her body isn't really a body, but a shell, therefore her disregards for it.
There is no such word as “alot”. “A lot” is two words.
Voltaire
Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM

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