Debate and Discussion

Global Homogenisation?
Bittenbymonk at 8:03AM, Oct. 5, 2008
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so! these days we have so many ways of interacting with eachother as cultures, the internet for example is letting me get this across the entire planet. so! My point is, that nowadays every culture is influenced by every other culture, and we're dissolving into one big cultural melting pot and becoming one big culture- a global culture. Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:22AM
Skullbie at 9:13AM, Oct. 5, 2008
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I like to think of it more as a ‘tossed salad’ then a melting pot. Melting pot means the stuff that goes in morphs into something new without retaining any of it's old form. With a tossed salad you have a little bit of tomatoes there, some croutons there, dressing and lettuce all making a new dish but they have there own individual flavors.

What i'm getting at with the salad is that i can go into town and eat at a chinese restaurant while listening to music that's in Spanish, and have japanese comics in my back seat on my way there. :) So we're not dissolving into this amorphous blob of culture, but enjoying the newness and ‘croutons’ other cultures bring in.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:46PM
Bittenbymonk at 11:52AM, Oct. 5, 2008
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yeeees, but how long before the salad ingredients lose their identity and become “that thing that's in salad”?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:22AM
Mushroomcomix at 2:55PM, Oct. 5, 2008
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I personally think its great that we can amalgamate all of our cultures into a giant tossed salad… as long as the salad keeps changing and the ingredients keep adding new taste to their identity i don't think they will become that thing thats in the salad
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:08PM
bravo1102 at 8:07PM, Oct. 5, 2008
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Bittenbymonk
yeeees, but how long before the salad ingredients lose their identity and become “that thing that's in salad”?

From where I stand it does melt together and becomes something new and different and often better. Just like a lighter and stronger metal alloy that comes from weaker and heavier ores.

We know what went into it, but it is now more than the sum of its parts because of how everything comes together. Spirituals to jazz to rock? Skat, swing, hip-hop and rap? Sometimes it works like a blender.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
lothar at 9:43AM, Oct. 6, 2008
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Skullbie
What i'm getting at with the salad is that i can go into town and eat at a chinese restaurant while listening to music that's in Spanish, and have japanese comics in my back seat on my way there. :) So we're not dissolving into this amorphous blob of culture, but enjoying the newness and ‘croutons’ other cultures bring in.
yea ! as long as the peoples from those cultures keep their mouths shut and dont express their negative views about america or else they might just get a bottle rocket shoved up their arses *sic*
-sorry Skull , i had to call you out on that one .

i dont think we will ever have a true homogenisation and global peace as long as we stick to this salad bowel stereotyping of cultures . China is more than food ,Mexico is more than Music, and japan is more than comics . actually , now that i think of it, what you are describing is more of the melting pot *aka Assimilation scenario. to strip all substance from a culture and reduce it to one or two novelties .
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
bravo1102 at 10:50AM, Oct. 6, 2008
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Well said Lothar. I couldn't agree more. Reducing 5000 years of Chinese culture to a few vases, a piece of jade and cousine that the great majority of Chinese don't eat and a lot that was invented for American audiences.

Then there is also the out and out hatred of certain aspects of other cultures and turning a blind eye to the bad parts because everything is relative. (Francophobia with Americans. They criticize the US and American culture and we despise them because we have bailed them out of two world wars. Does that make us so great? We forget that they were once great and they're just warning us not to get too big for our britches. Too late)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
KingRidley at 10:58AM, Oct. 6, 2008
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lothar
-sorry Skull , i had to call you out on that one .

i dont think we will ever have a true homogenisation and global peace as long as we stick to this salad bowel stereotyping of cultures . China is more than food ,Mexico is more than Music, and japan is more than comics . actually , now that i think of it, what you are describing is more of the melting pot *aka Assimilation scenario. to strip all substance from a culture and reduce it to one or two novelties .

No you didn't.

And man he was just using those as examples. I could be in a Chinese art show wearing an outfit I picked up in Mexico While reviewing an imported Japanese movie on my American made (with parts from all over the world) Laptop computer. It's not a melting pot/assimilation scenario. We're not taking Mexicans and saying they can only make music, or saying Chinese are only allowed to be known for food, or the Japanese can have nothing to their name except comics.



I personally think this is all a very good thing. It helps younger, more impressionable people become exposed to the rest of the world so that they can learn about and interact with people from other countries. And as long as people aren't ass holes about it, then they'll hopefully learn to like people from other countries.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
Bittenbymonk at 11:45AM, Oct. 6, 2008
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that doesn't make any valid point to what I was trying to say, you've discussed the effect of multiple countries on our younger people, sure, but thje point I'm trying to make is this: will having every other culture available to almost everyone make them lose their cultural identity? and will the effect of more powerful countries be dominant (looking at global ‘americanisation)? the fact that we have mcdonald’s in japan and coca cola in peru shows that our cultures are beginning to mix, it can't be a good thing for everyone if we all start eating, dressing and acting the same way can it?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:22AM
Mushroomcomix at 1:50PM, Oct. 6, 2008
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Thats a good point. Some countries really hate the westernization of them. That is why so many Islamic countries love Osama Bin Laden so much. They want to stay in their old ways and America comes in and builds Mc Donalds, Wal-Mart, ETC. And it pisses them off. They have been taught their whole lives to live one way and we come in and try to change that. Turkey is the biggest example of destroying their culture and Nambia is a great example of them resisting it. So I don't think it would ever be possible to become one BIG world culture with out A. A giant war and converting people or B. Killing everyone who opposes this new culture
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:08PM
KingRidley at 2:01PM, Oct. 6, 2008
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McDonalds in Japan isn't Americanization. That's just business spreading to earn more money.

There will probably be alot of things from many cultures that will be left behind, but alot of things will definitely stay and be made stronger from the exposure to the rest of the world. Alot of negative aspects of cultures will be removed.

But imagine countries like Pakistan brought into a first world status. They will still drink tea and enjoy Persian Poetry and go to Mosque and own fine Persian rugs. But they will use computers to check the news and watch TV over fancy satellites and have their own chain businesses. The things each culture really loves will stay behind, while the unnecessary bits of their lives will be replaced.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
Bittenbymonk at 2:24PM, Oct. 6, 2008
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it's not just Mcdonald's spreading, it's the influence macdonald's is having on different cultures, for example, you ask a japanese person what their favourite drink is, how much more likely are they to say “coca cola” now that mcdonalds is in Japan? it works both ways of course, but that's the point of the debate on global homogenisation I suppose.

KingRidley
There will probably be alot of things from many cultures that will be left behind, but alot of things will definitely stay and be made stronger from the exposure to the rest of the world. Alot of negative aspects of cultures will be removed.

That's a very idealistic view on the situation, a very, very idealistic view. things don't always run so smoothly, dare I say 9-11? there's gonna be global homogenisation to some degree, and there will be some who wont be happy when their way of life is diluted by negative aspects of others.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:22AM
Hawk at 3:48PM, Oct. 6, 2008
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I'm not shocked at all to find some people in here talking about the American culture like it's some kind of spreading evil. Much of it is just progress. Let me tell you, I'm glad toilets made it to Japan, because do you know what the old-fashioned alternative is? It's still available in many stores, if you ever visit.

And let's not pretend that McDonalds in Japan is any more wrong than having Sony in America. They're drinking Coca-Cola in India, and we're driving Volkswagen cars in the states. If somebody in some other country invents a product that can improve my life, I'm happy that it makes its way to me. So while it may feel like the American culture is stretching out over the world like octopus tentacles, it's really an exchange of ideas and things from all of the world. Some people are happy to slap the name “Americanization” on it, but I feel that gives America too much credit. Not everything you see comes from America, so I think “modernization” is the better term for it.

I can understand the sentiment that many have in not wanting to lose cultures. There are many interesting cultures out there and I think some people are worried that they'll all start wearing the same clothes, eating the same food, and speaking the same language. I don't think it actually works that way. This world is too large. As long as there are groups of people, they will create their own culture. These cultures will be based on the needs, desires, and personalities of the group, as well as the characteristics of the region they're in. So, while there may come a time in Japan when nobody wears kimonos anymore, I'm sure they'll still be plenty different from the people in South Africa. I mean, look how different cultures can be even within the USA.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
lothar at 6:00PM, Oct. 6, 2008
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if anyone doubts American cultural hegemony, just go into a video store in another country .
most of the things talked about in this thread are just Material items .
but
Movies , i once heard someone say, are like the collective dreams of society. capsules of culture, much more able to spread the ideas and values of a society than their food or clothing.
so i go into a video store in Japan and what do i see ; row after row of American Movies ! American TV shows . well not so many American cartoons .
and how many foreign movies do you see in Blockbuster video USA ? or more importantly how many have you watched? how many does the average american watch ? when a lot of people get angry at subtitles , i'm guessing the number is somewhere close to zero .
my point is ; Americans know very little about the lives and people of other countries, but are filled with a false sense of internationalism by the cheap shallow consumer culture they inhabit.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
KingRidley at 6:27PM, Oct. 6, 2008
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Bittenbymonk
dare I say 9-11?
That was an attack by religious extremists. And to be honest, those guys go after the uneducated youths when they're trying to recruit, because messages of hate are accepted the best by the uneducated youths.



lothar
if anyone doubts American cultural hegemony, just go into a video store in another country .

so i go into a video store in Japan and what do i see ; row after row of American Movies ! American TV shows . well not so many American cartoons .
and how many foreign movies do you see in Blockbuster video USA ?

but are filled with a false sense of internationalism by the cheap shallow consumer culture they inhabit.
Oh as if it was so easy. BE RIGHT BACK GUYS, I'M GOING TO RENT A MOVIE FROM PERU!


That's because Hollywood is pretty good at doing what they do. American movies are good. Especially for smaller countries that don't really have the means of making their own TV shows. I've also heard that the Japanese, ironically, love American stuff (ironic because so many of us love all of their stuff too). I'll say that I really hate the majority of movies made today, but even still Americans make some really good films every now and then. Also just because a movie is in English doesn't mean it's American. I have tons of Monty Python Movies, and even Shaun of The Dead.

Usually Blockbuster doesn't carry foreign movies (even though they DO have a small foreign film section, as do most stores I've been to) because the average consumer is not interested in them. They wouldn't earn much money having a wall of films from all over the world. And for the movie enthusiast it's pretty easy to import foreign movies, or buy any that are already over here. It's not like we've banned foreign films.


And in conclusion for your last point:

Mod Edit: Image Macros are not allowed in the Debate and Discussion forum.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
bravo1102 at 9:14AM, Oct. 7, 2008
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But lothar's last statement was correct. Most Americans are very culturally naive and just downright ignorant and apathetic and even hostile. Americans do see the Chinese as just food and vases and kung fu and the Japanese as sushi and samurais and the guys who bombed Pearl Harbor. It was viewed as a risky propostion to release Letters From Iwo Jima in the US and there was out and out hostility among some of my friends about it. (Ironically not from the few WWII Pacific veterans I know)

Every McDonald's changes to reflect their patrons. In Japan the food ain't the same as in NJ (but NJ's McDonald's is the same as in Idaho, South Carolina, Florida etc) I was surprised how different one in London was from the US ones I was used to. (and just try asking for iced tea, but that one isn't understood south of Maryland either)

I hate to say this but even the USA is not homogenous. That's after 200 years and 50 years with interstate highways and cheap and easy cross-country travel, do you really think that all 6 billion people will all be the same in two centuries?

A futurist friend told me that the first thing to disappear will be red hair, and eventually all of humanity will look something like Tiger Woods.

As for foreign film in Blockbuster, the rest of the world's movie industry is tiny compared to Hollywood. The next biggest is India and that does not appeal to American audiences(with some exceptions. BLockbuster's selection is skewed to the local audience, one in Hazlet NJ is different from Jackson NJ, let alone Charleston SC. Edison and Iselin NJ with large Indian populations have Bollywood selections mixed in with the Hollywood movies.)

Then there is the Asian Rim film industry(China etc) and big budget films from there do show in the US. But Americans hate reading subtitles. Japanese love it because they want to learn English. I've watched some Japanese productions purposely made in English with Japanese subtitles to be used as a teaching aid.

The more the world is the same; the more it really is different and will probably remain so. Except for the US and the French; we're both so full of ourselves that no other culture will ever have an impact on us. (Too late, you know how many Native American and Spanish words are in American English? But the Academie francaise doesn't allow such things in France :) )
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Hawk at 9:37AM, Oct. 7, 2008
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I think the restaurant and Blockbuster discussion is irrelevant. You could make a restaurant in America that servers cow pies and call it “Chinese”, but that doesn't mean the Chinese culture has disappeared. It's still over there in China.


bravo1102
I hate to say this but even the USA is not homogenous. That's after 200 years and 50 years with interstate highways and cheap and easy cross-country travel, do you really think that all 6 billion people will all be the same in two centuries?

I think this is the answer to the entire question, and it's what I was trying to explain. Separation of culture doesn't even require national boundaries.

bravo1102
The more the world is the same; the more it really is different and will probably remain so. Except for the US and the French; we're both so full of ourselves that no other culture will ever have an impact on us.

That's the part I don't agree with. First of all, because it makes the general assumption that everything that surrounds us in our culture was created by us. That's not true. There are plenty of things that seem as American as apple pie but we just don't know where they're really from. (Basketball is from Canada and hamburgers came from Germany).

Secondly, Americans go through periodic fascinations with other cultures. In the 80's it was Australia, and recently it was Japan. And even excluding these faddish cultural infatuations, I consistently meet people who enjoy learning about other cultures. One friend I know loves Egyptian culture and one of my coworkers learns everything he can about Korea.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Skullbie at 10:37AM, Oct. 7, 2008
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lothar
negative views about america or else they might just get a bottle rocket shoved up their arses
Oh my Lothar, dare i say that you are, butthurt? ;) i think your arguments are stronger when you're keeping a level head anyhow.
———————————–

I'd have to agree that quite a few Americans view other countries as a consumer product, but all of America? No, what a terrible generalization. I've found it's mostly younger teens who view other countries that way because it's ‘cool’ and they've seen movies like that; A fad like Hawk is pointing out. I think the attention on us is a bit unfair since i'm sure the rest of the world has some nasty cultural generalizations about white people, most notable is that we generalize them.

I like how the first post was just about global culture and the conversation dipped to America. Are we the pioneer of accepting other cultures? What other countries do it better?

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:46PM
lothar at 12:08PM, Oct. 7, 2008
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Joking about the Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is just about as low as you can go in my book , if that's what you were referring to Skull . if not, you should clarify what exactly you meant by that !
Someone
“I think the attention on us is a bit unfair since i'm sure the rest of the world has some nasty cultural generalizations about white people”
there's good reason for that . It was called Imperialism , and the world is still feeling it's effects to this day !
Someone
Are we the pioneer of accepting other cultures? What other countries do it better?
more like the pioneer in destroying cultures . the Genocide of the Native Americans , the kidnapping and enslavement of Africans . ah but that was a long time ago , nowadays we have our Crusades in Iraq and Afghanistan .

i'm talking about the actions and policies of the entire society here , i think it is such a cop out for somebody to say “waaaah, you can't generalize like that” that's just so you can ignore the reality and go on living in your fantasy world. this is such an annoying trend i see , where americans , or anybody for that matter , try to distance themselves from the things their nation has done by saying “we're not all like that” or “that was a long time ago” but those same people will quickly attach themselves to what they consider to be the nations triumphs, no matter how long ago they were. of course you believe it's the greatest country ever , that is what you are constantly being told. they are not going to talk loudly about all the skeletons in the closet , that goes for any nation.

anyway i don't think the world will be one until nationalism is eradicated . it's a disease that seeks to separate us by telling us that our group is somehow better than some other group. it plays on our egos and pack mentality . when we lived in caves it helped us to survive against nature, now it is clearly destroying us and the Earth .
overall i think everyone dissolving into one global culture is the best thing that could happen to humanity . when we can all communicate and understand each other , War will be far more personal and repugnant . and all the energy of humans could go to better our lives and explore space , rather than making bombs and killing ourselves .

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Hawk at 1:24PM, Oct. 7, 2008
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Skullbie
…but all of America? No, what a terrible generalization.

Generalizations are how Lothar works. If any one of us were to make a blatantly generalized and negative statement about Mexicans or Chinese, there would be a huge reaction and we'd be labeled racist. And I don't think the mods or admins here would let the comment stand.

But for some reason day after day we allow Lothar to spew his racist dogma about all Americans, no matter what vile things he claims. He's not just picking off shots at the US Government, which would be much more acceptable, but he directs his misguided rage at every US citizen, regardless of what they actually do or think.

Ironically, that fact that we seem to allow him to do this shows just how tolerant Americans can be.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Bittenbymonk at 3:43PM, Oct. 7, 2008
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KingRidley
That was an attack by religious extremists. And to be honest, those guys go after the uneducated youths when they're trying to recruit, because messages of hate are accepted the best by the uneducated youths.
well yeah, because of “america and their decadent ways” or something along those lines, which the extremists don't want to be influenceing their way of life, which I believe ties in with the discussion just a little bit.

KingRidley
That's because Hollywood is pretty good at doing what they do. American movies are good. Especially for smaller countries that don't really have the means of making their own TV shows.
Ever heard of the cinematic new waves? the films that rejected the ‘hollywood’ style of making films, rejected the old and embraced a newer way of expressing their culture through experimental cinema. This Shows that pretty much any country that has a few guys and a handycam can have their own unique, culturally embracing cinema industry.Hollywood is ‘pretty good’ at making big dumb high concept movies that can really be shown to reflect purely american ideologies about the world, which is just great when you get american movies being marketed abroad, it really does affect the culture. that's not to say American movies don't have their shining jewels, but on the whole, Hollywood doesn't promote international beliefs.
ALSO! you'll find that the bbfc (british board of film classification) show shaun of the dead and Monty Python and the holy grail as rank C and D british films, as funding from the US was used in production, but I'm not going to go into how America has influenced British Cinema, there would be a lot more text to come if I did, but let's just look at the bastardised view of Britain that films like ‘Love Actually’ give… yeah. Try watching something like “This is England” or, hell, even ‘the Full Monty’ for something that gives an actual British representation of British culture.

ButI think this discussion is dissolving into a debate about american influence on the rest of the world and how ‘terrible’ that is; this isn't what the debate is about, surely? but it's a good point when you say you can't always lump everyone into one pot just because they belong to a race or nationality. it's as much about personality as outside influence I think, but then again that's just splitting hairs, as you can make subdivisions of society in cultures. so even if we have a united world, there will still be the same problems because of the differences in peoples thinking,it wont be based on where they come from, but how they think, which is a step in the right direction right?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:22AM
lothar at 5:06PM, Oct. 7, 2008
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Hawk
Skullbie
…but all of America? No, what a terrible generalization.

Generalizations are how Lothar works. If any one of us were to make a blatantly generalized and negative statement about Mexicans or Chinese, there would be a huge reaction and we'd be labeled racist. And I don't think the mods or admins here would let the comment stand.

But for some reason day after day we allow Lothar to spew his racist dogma about all Americans, no matter what vile things he claims. He's not just picking off shots at the US Government, which would be much more acceptable, but he directs his misguided rage at every US citizen, regardless of what they actually do or think.

Ironically, that fact that we seem to allow him to do this shows just how tolerant Americans can be.

i will say this again ; claiming that all generalizations are bad is a pretty week excuse.
let me break it down for you ..
Americans live in a democracy
you control your government
therefore You Americans in GENERAL are responsible for the actions of the government !
you Americans , generaly speaking, are responsible for the actions of American corporations .regardless of what you , as individuals, actually do or think.
you subscribe to the whole , you are in it
You are responsible for the acts of the US military .
as citizens of a free and open society ,you have the power to change things!
if the vast majority of Americans choose apathy and self-centered living. if the General public of America doesn't care .
they deserve to be characterized as sheep !
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
KingRidley at 7:55PM, Oct. 7, 2008
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lothar
Joking about the Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is just about as low as you can go in my book , if that's what you were referring to Skull . if not, you should clarify what exactly you meant by that !

It was called Imperialism , and the world is still feeling it's effects to this day !

more like the pioneer in destroying cultures . the Genocide of the Native Americans , the kidnapping and enslavement of Africans . ah but that was a long time ago , nowadays we have our Crusades in Iraq and Afghanistan .

that's just so you can ignore the reality and go on living in your fantasy world.

when we lived in caves it helped us to survive against nature, now it is clearly destroying us and the Earth .

How the hell did you get that from his statement? And seriously, you have very little right to be offended by that even if he was making a Hiroshima joke (which he wasn't). You're not really Japanese, and you're constantly spouting off hateful or racist views of other groups. Shut up.

Going to clarify for you, Europeans/White people were not the only imperialists. Just about everyone was doing it.

Oh mean old America had an economy based on slaves. We were totally the first ones to have ever done that. No, fucking Rome, Egypt, Greece, Britain, and just about every other major country (and many minor ones) NEVER had slaves or participated in a slave trade. Lothar, your ignorance is glowing brilliantly tonight.

Oh God I am laughing.

Oh, clearly. Why just the other night I went outside and stabbed baby animals while pouring oil into the dirt screaming about how awesome America is. All my neighbors came out and did it too. What, they don't do that in Japan?



Hawk
Generalizations are how Lothar works. If any one of us were to make a blatantly generalized and negative statement about Mexicans or Chinese, there would be a huge reaction and we'd be labeled racist. And I don't think the mods or admins here would let the comment stand.

But for some reason day after day we allow Lothar to spew his racist dogma about all Americans, no matter what vile things he claims. He's not just picking off shots at the US Government, which would be much more acceptable, but he directs his misguided rage at every US citizen, regardless of what they actually do or think.

Ironically, that fact that we seem to allow him to do this shows just how tolerant Americans can be.
I love you.

But seriously, what will it take for him to get into trouble?



Bittenbymonk
well yeah, because of “america and their decadent ways” or something along those lines, which the extremists don't want to be influenceing their way of life, which I believe ties in with the discussion just a little bit.


ALSO! you'll find that the bbfc (british board of film classification) show shaun of the dead and Monty Python and the holy grail as rank C and D british films, as funding from the US was used in production
Even still, they play alot more on fear than they do actual concerns.


Man what? Shaun of The Dead was awesome. That sucks.



lothar
i will say this again ; claiming that all generalizations are bad is a pretty week excuse.
*hateful ignorant shit that only vaguely touches upon truth*
they deserve to be characterized as sheep !

I'll give it to you that Americans should be held responsible for the actions of our government or our military. And in all honestly, we are. When they screw up, the world makes sure we know. But still, we have impeached presidents and had bad leaders removed or replaced. And when soldiers break rules or pull any crazy shit, they can be discharged or worse. Of course you're looking at what you think are horrible crimes and therefore don't care about this.

But we really aren't responsible for our businesses. THEY are responsible for themselves. Our only responsibility is keeping the good ones in business by buying from them. Alot of them do things that people may disagree with, but that won't make them want to get rid of their grocery/pharmacy/electronics/furniture store. They need it.

But again, you don't really give two shits. You're probably too concerned with making sure no Wal-Mart higher-ups find you and kill you.

But two can play at the generalization game.

You are a conspiracy theorist.
Some conspiracy theorists think that aliens are going to touch down on October 14th, 2008.
Some conspiracy theorists think that Nasa fakes Mars photos to remove little old ladies kicking martian rock snakes.
Some conspiracy theorists believe in an all powerful omniscient evil government secretly running the planet that isn't smart enough to take down their web site/kill them.
Some conspiracy theorists think that flu vaccines contain mind control drugs that make you want to buy christmas presents, simply because Christmas comes after flu vaccines are given (despite the fact that it is also COLD, and FLU SEASON when they give those shots).
Some conspiracy theorists are mentally ill, suffering from diseases like schizophrenia.
Due to the nature of the disease, these paranoid individuals refuse medicine and stay sick, slowly getting worse.

Conclusion: All conspiracy theorists are very sick, and need to have medicine forced on them to prevent their minds from deteriorating any more than they already have.


Wow, I sure made an evil sounding generalization. Of course, that usually happens when you're linking information with no factual basis other than whatever the voices in your head provide you with.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
ozoneocean at 9:06PM, Oct. 7, 2008
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Cut the personal attacks NOW!

We're a lot more tolerant than other debate forums in this regard. But it's getting out of hand.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
Hawk at 10:18PM, Oct. 7, 2008
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Ozone's right, things have gotten both vicious and off-topic. I probably shouldn't have singled out Lothar earlier in this thread.

Don't take that as a retraction, though. I meant every word. I just shouldn't have said it here. And yes, I expect Lothar to change his behavior too, otherwise we'll end up in this same argument again, guaranteed.

So, no more personal attacks. And no more racist generalizations. This thread is one more problem away from being locked… which is sad, because I think it's a good topic.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
lothar at 6:09AM, Oct. 8, 2008
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Bittenbymonk
so! these days we have so many ways of interacting with eachother as cultures, the internet for example is letting me get this across the entire planet. so! My point is, that nowadays every culture is influenced by every other culture, and we're dissolving into one big cultural melting pot and becoming one big culture- a global culture. Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

this is my take on the original post-
it depends on What is driving that interaction. so far it has been trade, multinational corporations. companies who's primary concern is money making. in this system certain cultures hold much more power over others. by the nature of the system , the drivers don't realy care what the impact is on smaller cultures, their only concern is profit.
the internet is a totaly different story and offers everbody, as long as they can afford a computer and speak a little english, to interact with people all over the world. we realy have the potential to build something realy great and dissasemble the old barriers .
what we are seeing now is the transition from tribalism to a comunity of human citizens. and this will be met with resistance. humans love their artificial differences .
sorry if this offends anybody, but this would be a pretty crappy debate forum if we all expected to just agree or keep quite.

btw, calling me a racist for saying bad things about americans is ridiculous for 2 reasons
1 American is not a race
2 I am from America
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Skullbie at 10:53AM, Oct. 8, 2008
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lothar
btw, calling me a racist for saying bad things about americans is ridiculous for 2 reasons
1 American is not a race
Wonderful excuse for attacking a group of people ^_^ Jews are not a race, so i'll call them all greedy with huge noses, and then say they got what what was coming in the holocaust for being jewish.

Hmm, what does this remind me of….ohyeah Nazis. Lot of good they did for the world. -_-
In theory wasn't the nazis plan homogenization? 0_o They wanted to create the Aryan race of blue eyed blonde haired people and exclude everything else out permanently so they could have the ‘perfect’ race. I think i'll take the tossed salad lol!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:46PM
Bittenbymonk at 11:30AM, Oct. 8, 2008
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Kingridley
Man what? Shaun of The Dead was awesome. That sucks.
oops, guess I shouldn't have assumed prior knowledge. The bbfc ranks films A-D depending on “how british” they are, films like the Dark Knight and Gladiator are rank D british films, as they were written and directed by british people but funded by America, Rank A films are Films like Dead Man's Shoes and the first Monty python films: written, starring, directed and released by british people. certainly doesn't say anything about their quality.

aand I don't think we should continue with the whole America tangent, it's really not the point! but yeah, Nazis plan wasn't homogenisation of the planet, it was to wipe out all other cultures so only theirs remained, which is an awfully direct way of melting other cultures together, especially since there would only be the one. it's the same logic as saying “Hitler promoted peace in Europe… by killing everyone who could fight with him” but again, that's off-topic.

I'm gonna quote the example of the pictures taken of one of the last uncontacted tribes of the world:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1022822/Incredible-pictures-Earths-uncontacted-tribes-firing-bows-arrows.html which is great, allowing them to keep their culture, or is it unfair to deprive them? we look at tribes along the amazon river who wear t-shirts and have shotguns thanks to outside influence is that a good or a bad thing? it's an extreme case with little middleground, but I think it provides a useful model to look at when considering the topic.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:22AM
KingRidley at 1:13PM, Oct. 8, 2008
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ozoneocean
Cut the personal attacks NOW!

We're a lot more tolerant than other debate forums in this regard. But it's getting out of hand.
That is not fair. I have to stop, but no matter what you say lothar will keep going doing this same crap under the premise of ‘expressing his opinion.’ And at least in my posts I'm making attempts at staying on topic after I rant at lothar. AND I don't always totally disagree with him, so again I'm not just trolling. I reported him too, and you just ignored it saying that He was free to express his views. This is ridiculous.



lothar
it depends on What is driving that interaction. so far it has been trade, multinational corporations. companies who's primary concern is money making. in this system certain cultures hold much more power over others. by the nature of the system , the drivers don't realy care what the impact is on smaller cultures, their only concern is profit.

the internet is a totaly different story and offers everbody, as long as they can afford a computer and speak a little english, to interact with people all over the world. we realy have the potential to build something realy great and dissasemble the old barriers .

what we are seeing now is the transition from tribalism to a comunity of human citizens. and this will be met with resistance. humans love their artificial differences .

sorry if this offends anybody, but this would be a pretty crappy debate forum if we all expected to just agree or keep quite.

btw, calling me a racist for saying bad things about americans is ridiculous for 2 reasons
1 American is not a race
2 I am from America

Well that is sort of the point of running a business. Earning money. Yeah some businesses have and will continue to take it too far, but that doesn't make the whole system a corrupt way of doing things.

This is totally true. It helps everyone meet everyone else and show that despite our many differences, we're all essentially the same. It's a very good thing.

We've passed that. Like, a long long time ago. The internet didn't start this. You can go back past TV, Telephones, Radio, telegrams, written letters, etc. They have all contributed to globalizing human cultures.

No no no, THIS isn't the stuff you've done that offends people. There's nothing wrong with intelligent debate.

Oh yeah sure, great rationalization. I refer you to skullbie's Jew example. It may not be racism, but that doesn't mean it's okay to do.



Skullbie
In theory wasn't the nazis plan homogenization? 0_o They wanted to create the Aryan race of blue eyed blonde haired people and exclude everything else out permanently so they could have the ‘perfect’ race. I think i'll take the tossed salad lol!
Yeah, their plan was more like removing everything from the salad but the crutons. And while crutons ARE tasty, they don't make for a very good salad. Whereas the less genocidal plan more involves tossing the salad hard enough and repeatedly enough until everything gets mushed together into one tasty paste.



Bittenbymonk
oops, guess I shouldn't have assumed prior knowledge. The bbfc ranks films A-D depending on “how british” they are

oh

well that's good then




Sort of off topic: Should humans ever Make Contact with aliens, do you think they will be a globally homogenized race? Or will their world be full of huge variations just like ours? Like the little green men and the taller Gray aliens could be the same species , just like our whites and blacks.

Of course this is totally hypothetical, I strongly believe that IF life exists outside of Earth, it has never made the trip here.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
bravo1102 at 4:38PM, Oct. 8, 2008
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Hawk
bravo1102
The more the world is the same; the more it really is different and will probably remain so. Except for the US and the French; we're both so full of ourselves that no other culture will ever have an impact on us.

That's the part I don't agree with. First of all, because it makes the general assumption that everything that surrounds us in our culture was created by us. That's not true. There are plenty of things that seem as American as apple pie but we just don't know where they're really from. (Basketball is from Canada and hamburgers came from Germany).

Secondly, Americans go through periodic fascinations with other cultures.

It was a joke about cultural arrogance. ;) American culture is a polyglot as I said before just look at American English with its multitude of foreign words (Spanish and Native American) That's how cultural influences are usually determined, the borrowing of words back and forth. There is a lot of American English entering into other languages but a lot of it are technical terms or colloquial references. Is that cultural dominance? Or is it just sharing of common interests? (like the American faddish facination with various foreign cultures)

Strange that America's two most readily identified “american” foods aren't. Hot dogs are German. Hamburgers have existed since Ancient Rome. (though the term is from a city in Germany, those Germans. Did you know it's the most widespread ethnic ancestry of Americans? It's true. Ask those genealogy folks over at NGS)

There have been cultural exchanges and influences shooting back and forth ever since there have been different cultures. Sumer, Harrapa and Egypt; the first three civilizations all influenced and traded with each other. They didn't even have money yet, but they traded for the gain of wealth and influenced each other. Is the Americanization of the world anywhere close to being as all-encompassing and dominant as that of Greece after Alexander the Great? Rome ruled the Mediterranean world like many believe US Imperialism does today. But the local culture remained Greek or Egyptian etc.

History teaches us that even the closest ruling imperial power will not wipe out the local culture without wiping out the local population. India? (Moghuls as well as the British) Korea? (Chinese and Japanese) Vietnam? (I'm talking the Chinese imperialism not just the French.) Britain (Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Normans, Danes) America (Native Americans)

You only can wipe out the native culture if you wipe out the native population. Other than that it's a veneer of outside cultural influence and stuff inside the ongoing and evolving native civilization.

The more you import others into an area to change its culture, the more the locals will begin to resist change unless the incoming stuff is infinitely superior and even then there will always be remains of the original culture that will never change. Look at the influx of Yankees into the South or New Yorkers into central New Jersey. We live right next to each other and yet you can always tell a tranplanted New Yorker and Jerseyians complain about how they're ruining things. Personnally I prefer having NJ overrun with Hispanics and Asian Indians than New Yorkers, but that's just me. :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM

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