Debate and Discussion

God
bobhhh at 7:16PM, Dec. 23, 2007
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Emirii
This is definitely an interesting question you have here. Simple, but interesting.

God is…

…my God. I'm a strong christain; which, of course, creates an image out of me that shows some fat girl in a floral dress going around with a bible in hand. Which is sad, really; because God deserves much more credit than that.

We all have mixed views, but I do believe that God created the Earth and everything in it. I don't think we grew from monkeys, from my own observations (but I won't go into that here). I also believe in miracles, since I've seen many for myself. Sometimes they're as little as praying with your family for a sore throat to go away, and it does just after you're done praying to something as complex as lifting a demon from a person's body.

I think the greatest cause of aetheism is because either they are severely left-brained (logical in thinking), or feel they don't want to take responsibility for certain actions. If you're an aethiest, then you can go get drunk or fornicate without feeling bad at all. But if you're a christain, catholic or any other religion; if you commit sins, you are guilty of them. Which, ultimately, can lead to passage to hell (if you believe in that.)

As for proof right now, I'd have to write a lot. If you'd like me to provide written and documented proof to a certain topic, please, reply to this and ask me. Let me forewarn you, however; some things can not be proven.

What use is feeling bad if you are going to sin anyway, at least atheists are honest about not caring, although I challenge you to go out and get pounded and tell me you don't feel bad the next day!!! :P
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Kilre at 9:44PM, Dec. 23, 2007
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Emirii
I think the greatest cause of aetheism is because either they are severely left-brained (logical in thinking), or feel they don't want to take responsibility for certain actions. If you're an aethiest, then you can go get drunk or fornicate without feeling bad at all. But if you're a christain, catholic or any other religion; if you commit sins, you are guilty of them. Which, ultimately, can lead to passage to hell (if you believe in that.)


I've yet to come across atheists that turned to godlessness simply so that they could get it on some more. Try again.

Morals aren't just for believers, you know. We just don't have those things…what are they…oh yeah, supernatural forces hanging over our heads with damnation if we don't help the needy.

You should help others and yourself not because you might get into some heaven somewhere, but because they're fellow human beings. What more reason do you need?

Of course, you're right, if others're going to treat me like shit they'll get a boot in their ass, and I won't feel like I'm going to any hells for it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
bobhhh at 10:48PM, Dec. 23, 2007
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Kilre
Emirii
I think the greatest cause of aetheism is because either they are severely left-brained (logical in thinking), or feel they don't want to take responsibility for certain actions. If you're an aethiest, then you can go get drunk or fornicate without feeling bad at all. But if you're a christain, catholic or any other religion; if you commit sins, you are guilty of them. Which, ultimately, can lead to passage to hell (if you believe in that.)


I've yet to come across atheists that turned to godlessness simply so that they could get it on some more. Try again.

Morals aren't just for believers, you know. We just don't have those things…what are they…oh yeah, supernatural forces hanging over our heads with damnation if we don't help the needy.

You should help others and yourself not because you might get into some heaven somewhere, but because they're fellow human beings. What more reason do you need?

Of course, you're right, if others're going to treat me like shit they'll get a boot in their ass, and I won't feel like I'm going to any hells for it.

In fact my biggest problem with religions is that obedience is placed higher than good will.

You could be a selfless do gooder that runs shelters,soup kitchens, charities and visits old folks and brings presents to kids in the cancer ward, saves stray dogs from being euthanized and finds a cure for aids and cancer, but if you don't accept jeebus as your personal saviour…

DAMNATION!!!!!!!!
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
donkas at 5:33AM, Dec. 30, 2007
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“god” is…

a swear word used in polite converstion

“jesus christ”…

also a swear word.

that pretty much sums up my entire view on all religous interpretations
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:13PM
Mr President at 3:39AM, Jan. 10, 2008
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but if you don't accept jeebus as your personal saviour…



jebus should only have one e
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
TnTComic at 7:02AM, Jan. 10, 2008
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Emirii
I think the greatest cause of aetheism is because either they are severely left-brained (logical in thinking), or feel they don't want to take responsibility for certain actions. If you're an aethiest, then you can go get drunk or fornicate without feeling bad at all. But if you're a christain, catholic or any other religion; if you commit sins, you are guilty of them.

You've got it backwards. Atheists don't reject God because they want to get rid of guilt from doing what they want to do, its religion that attempts to give people guilt for doing what they want to do.

You seem to take it as a given that certain acts are “bad” or “good”, using a standard given to you by religion. An atheist rejects this notion. Acts that do not hurt a person are neither “good” nor “bad”, they are simply acts. An atheist does not choose their belief in an effort to escape guilt, they don't believe in the guilt at all, that is part of what makes them an atheist.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
UltimaXG2 at 10:03PM, Feb. 4, 2008
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We assign things we cannot explain deities. Lightning was once attributed to “God,” but once we had a scientific understanding, the “God” attachments dropped like vestigial traits. “God” is something used to explain the unexplainable, like how the universe started, or why you have AIDS instead of the girl you hate.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 4:36PM
zaneeba_slave at 8:10PM, Feb. 6, 2008
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One lie non-believers have come to believe is that Christianity was made to give false hope to people who are scared of death.

The funny thing is: I dont care about dying. If ther was no Heaven or no Hell, I really couldnt care less. If I died and my body decays and gets eaten by maggots and worms and i become fertilizer for a plant, I really dont care one speck.

I find it even more freakishly disturbing if I knew that there WAS no God and there is and afterlife then that there is a God and there is no afterlife.

Quite frankly, I wouldnt want to go to heaven if I didnt think God was there.

I'd rather die and love God for what he is.

It's just an added bonus I get both.
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
Dr3wdub at 12:48AM, Feb. 10, 2008
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Anyone else wanna take a crack at my question? :

Dr3wdub
Yeah, about that, how exactly is that supposed to work? If your “soul” goes to burn in hell, how do you feel it? pain is your brain sending messages to the rest of your body or something like that, right? so then that also cancels out regret or sadness or even bordom in hell since those are just human emotions.

So what exactly is the down side to going to hell?
“I'm having Deja Vu and Amnesia at the same time. I have a strange feeling I've forgotten all of this before.”


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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:14PM
kyupol at 9:06PM, Feb. 10, 2008
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God exists.

Because there has to be an ultimate cause for everything. Look at a medical book or look at the stars… or nature.

That in itself is evidence of a great design at work.

I don't believe we are here just by accident. Evolution and the big bang didnt just happen by an accident. There was an invisible force that caused it to be.


I know that people become atheists because of being disheartened by people who have made religion look bad. I've seen atheist's arguments about the existence of God:


- If God exists and is all good, then where is God when Hitler and Stalin were killing people? Why is the world so unjust?

- Why is every religion claiming to be the real one? If there is a God, God should have punished the “fake” ones right away.

- Why are there so much wars fought in the name of God? Too many people have died. Why is religion preaching love while doing murder? Look at those jihadists, the crusades, the inquisition, etc. etc. etc. Shouldn't God himself step in and tell everyone to stop fighting?

- So if you see yourself as having a purpose chosen by God, what about the other people. Doesn't that make God unfair? I thought God is all just?



Answer:
The will of God is not fully comprehended by people. You are a person. Limited by alot of things. Therefore your brain is limited. Your thought pattern is that of a lower frequency compared to the Supreme Being. Think about it. Can you look at the sun with your naked eye? Your eyes feel pain because the sun is too great for your eyes. Same thing with God.

When solving a difficult math problem your brain hurts. Because your brain is having difficulty comprehending that math problem. Same thing with God. You cannot comprehend God.

That is why the word of God gets misinterpreted and turned into a money making business or a hate-mongering machine.

But why try to comprehend God? If God cannot be comprehended

That is where the challenge is. That is where humanity should raise its vibration through prayer and meditation… in order to spiritually evolve more, and therefore, being able to comprehend a bigger portion of the supreme truth.


Just my 2 cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
kyupol at 9:18PM, Feb. 10, 2008
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Just to answer your question:

Yeah, about that, how exactly is that supposed to work? If your “soul” goes to burn in hell, how do you feel it? pain is your brain sending messages to the rest of your body or something like that, right? so then that also cancels out regret or sadness or even bordom in hell since those are just human emotions.

So what exactly is the down side to going to hell?

The “burning in hell” part shouldn't be taken literally IMO.

I think that hell isnt the same for all and it is all about different levels of astral planes or dimensions if you wanna call them.

You see, the laws of God and the universe are perfect and cannot be broken. If you die a bad person, the place your soul will go to could be the equivalent of your spiritual evolution. And you will be in that level together with other creatures of your same nature. Yes that could possibly include other beings (off other planets) with the same inclination.

Think about it. You're stuck in this place full of hostile creatures because that is your level of spiritual evolution when you die.

I don't really believe in the setup where it is only humans, angels, and devils that occupy the “levels” of heaven and hell. There would definitely be ETs in there. :)


Sorry if this explanation might be unclear. I suck at explaining things. lol



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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
arteestx at 10:01PM, Feb. 10, 2008
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kyupol
God exists. Because there has to be an ultimate cause for everything.
Not true. There doesn't have to be an ultimate cause for God, right? After all, one could ask, what caused God to exist? What existed before God? If the answer is that God doesn't need to be caused, then there *isn't* an ultimate cause for everything. So if God needs no ultimate cause, why can't the universe? Because the universe isn't God, so I've been told, which is a circular argument. This is why the “ultimate cause” argument is useless and proves nothing about God or the universe.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
Exzachly at 1:56AM, Feb. 11, 2008
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To me the idea of eternal damnation is one of the first things that turned me off on Christianity. It is just so repugnant and backwards. Why would I lower myself to accept such a moral standard?

Do you Christians honestly believe it's right to punish decent people for eternity just because they happened to grow up learning a different religion than you?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
kyupol at 7:19AM, Feb. 11, 2008
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kyupol
God exists. Because there has to be an ultimate cause for everything.
Not true. There doesn't have to be an ultimate cause for God, right? After all, one could ask, what caused God to exist? What existed before God? If the answer is that God doesn't need to be caused, then there *isn't* an ultimate cause for everything. So if God needs no ultimate cause, why can't the universe? Because the universe isn't God, so I've been told, which is a circular argument. This is why the “ultimate cause” argument is useless and proves nothing about God or the universe.

God, being infinite, exists outside time.

No beginning and no end. I know it is hard to grasp that kind of concept. How can something exist outside time?

Think about it. Time is something that limits you. If you are limited, that means you are a finite being and not God. If God is infinite, therefore God exists outside time.



Do you Christians honestly believe it's right to punish decent people for eternity just because they happened to grow up learning a different religion than you?

Some variants of Christianity believe that (unfortunately).

Like I said earlier, the reason they preach that kind of BS is because of a misunderstanding of God.

God is love. The closer you get to God, the happier you become. Notice why it doesnt necessarily mean that rich people are the happiest people. Material things cannot fully satisfy man's need for happiness. You can be the richest man on earth and still not be the happiest man on earth.

There is a spiritual longing in all living things to move closer to God.

But why are those Christians and Muslims look so angry? If they are so happy because they are supposedly closer to God, why are they so angry? Why is it that they have this delusion of imposing their will on the world?!?

They aren't really closer to God if that is the case. One's closeness to God is based on the individual and not the entire group.

If you live your life as a good Christian, Muslim, Jew… or even an atheist, you have a chance of ending up in a level of heaven. As long as your heart is inclined towards materialism and its full of hatred, bigotry, anger, etc… you are pushed farther away from God, and closer to hell (or the lower astral planes if you wanna call it that).

When you get closer to God, you will feel a sense of happiness and peace.

Try spending a few minutes of your day in prayer and meditation. Ask God questions using your mind. Try it. Nothing to lose. :)
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Roguehill at 1:13PM, Feb. 11, 2008
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Exzachly
To me the idea of eternal damnation is one of the first things that turned me off on Christianity. It is just so repugnant and backwards. Why would I lower myself to accept such a moral standard?

Do you Christians honestly believe it's right to punish decent people for eternity just because they happened to grow up learning a different religion than you?

I don't know about “we Christians”, but I can tell you that, as a Christian, Judgement isn't my business. The neat thing about a relationship with God is that it's personal…between you and your maker. Personally, I believe that in death, we'll all come to a point where all of our secret joys, loves, hates and fears will be brought into light for a critical look to see how we handled ourselves. If we've shaped ourselves into something that can dwell with God, so be it. If not, we can't be with God. It's a job we work at every single day in private as well as in public.
Now, there are pretty obvious turns someone can take…drugs, wife-beating, sexual abuse…that are strong indicators to there being a lack of love and respect in a person's life. I might be inclined (if I knew them) to warn them about their destructive lifestyle, but that's not judgement…that's advice. I don't wish them to be seperate from God, but that's not my choice, it's theirs.
As for different religions, as long as they are loving and responsible about a seeking relationship with God, it's a good thing. It's your relationship.
I, personally follow Christ because he sets a pretty firm example of how to be a responsible and loving person, and he shows how personal relationships change lives.
I don't worry too much about the “hereafter”, because the interesting stuff is what's happening now.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:09PM
alibaba at 3:35PM, Feb. 11, 2008
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i don't even want to start with arguments for or against the possibility or need of a god, that already has been done countless times by hundreds of experts.

however, i do want to state my number one reason as to why its completely impossible for me to believe in a god.

its because i prefer learning the truth.

let me explain: i'm agnostic, meaning i accept that there are things which i, and we as humanity, don't know and can't explain.

however, we are able to learn the truth through observation, experiments, etc. - which is known as science.

with time, we have come to learn a lot of things that are without doubt true; we have come to know and understand much of how nature works with the help of science.

however, there is no single piece of actual evidence that could point to the existance of a supreme being. and i don't have a reason to believe in a thing that doesn't exist in our world, for who knows if its true or not?

the stuff that we can't explain (yet) i don't want to fill in with “god”.
i accept what i don't know and don't jump to conclusions until i find out the truth.



i mean no offense when saying this, but many people who believe in a god are lazy. everytime they're left wondering about something they say: God moves in mysterious ways (or: i don't get it, so god must have done it) OR: this was satan's work!! XD

they simply try to fit in the real world in their belief system.
not just that, they also manipulate their own belief system however they see fit. (which is understandable, since if they didn't, they would still have to stone gays to death, etc.)



nevertheless, i'm not against religion. i understand that believing can help certain people and even improve their lifes.
as long as they don't try to fit in religious myths into science or behave negatively in the name of their belief.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
zaneeba_slave at 5:16PM, Feb. 11, 2008
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I, too, love to learn the truth, Ali Baba.

But I, being Christian, doesnt mean that I cannot handle truth when I see it.
There is no fight between Christians and science. I know many brilliant minds in the world of science that are, in fact, Christian. It is the more theoretical sciences that Christians have against science.

Christians do not argue that lightning is negative charges being pulled down to earth, instead of God sending down a death beam onto our heads.

What i keep hearing you say, though, is that you dont want to fill up what little we know of science with the idea of God. I agree.

But Christianity, along with other major religions, are not based all around if God created the earth or if there is possibly an afterlife.

These religions are based on how to live your OWN life to the fullest.
The bible, if read correctly, is not a bunch of seemingly impossible stories but more of a guide onto how to live your life, and live it well.

Did you know the Bible tells you how to invest your money carefully? Did you know the Bible can tell you how to keep your marriage strong?


Some atheists bring up the “donkey story” in the Bible, because a donkey at one point “speaks.” instead of thinking of the donkey speaking, think of it as “dont abuse other of God's creations.”

The Bible is filled with unlimited ways of helping you live your life to it's full potential. And that, in in of itself, makes Christians believe in God.


Yeah, and the Bible says “no cross-dressing” :D
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 7:32PM, Feb. 11, 2008
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If God does exist, which I'm not saying he does or doesn't, why the secrecy? Why doesn't he just stay with people, talk with all of them, let them know he exists. Do you know how many wars that would have prevented? Or maybe he just doesn't care about humanity.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:07AM
zaneeba_slave at 8:22PM, Feb. 11, 2008
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Like I have said before: God promises you a safe landing, not a free flight.

The secrecy is more upon the lines of God letting you succeed and fail when nescessary. Do you deny that if someone you trusted would tell you to do something, you would do it without question? Of course you would! But you wouldnt learn anything.

It's a learning tool. Sometimes, he gives you helpful hints, or sets affairs in order that will lead you on the right track, but you need to help yourself sometimes.

You need to fail, and then learn from it.
And would you listen anyways?

It certainly gives the impression, though, that God is completely absent.
I once found him absent until he flippin' scared me half to death with a ghost which later possessed my friend!

But… you know…
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
rmmanuel at 9:46PM, Feb. 11, 2008
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Whatever you want it to be. I don't think there's really much more to it than that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:08PM
arteestx at 12:03AM, Feb. 12, 2008
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kyupol
arteestx
So if God needs no ultimate cause, why can't the universe?

God, being infinite, exists outside time. No beginning and no end. I know it is hard to grasp that kind of concept. How can something exist outside time?

Think about it. Time is something that limits you. If you are limited, that means you are a finite being and not God. If God is infinite, therefore God exists outside time.
Then again, as Einstein showed, time is quantity that exists as part of the universe. When the universe didn't exist, time didn't exist. When time didn't exist, the universe didn't exist either (in other words, no beginning and no end). So the universe doesn't need an ultimate cause any more than God does. Simply saying “God exists outside of time” doesn't take away the need for an ultimate cause for God. If everything has an ultimate cause, so does God. The idea that God exists outside of time doesn't diminish the idea if God needs no ultimate cause, neither does the universe.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
alibaba at 4:23AM, Feb. 12, 2008
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@ zaneeba_slave: i must say that this is the kind of attitude i like and agree with XD .
it would be great if all believers wouldn't take their bible, koran, etc. too literaly and instead simply try to make use of the wisdom it offers, and not follow it like a how-to-build-a-desk tutorial…

too many people want to take the bible as literal as possible, they absolutely cling on to every word, completely ignoring the real world facts (the idea of the 6000 years old earth is almost, if not more, absurd as the geocentric model of the old times, and still many people think its true… *shudder*).
but the bible is not the answer to all questions. like you said, it can give good advice for everyday life, but it does not explain scientific questions and it shouldn't.

still, like i said before, religion in healthy doses can be good for some people =) .
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 6:10PM, Feb. 12, 2008
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zaneeba_slave
Like I have said before: God promises you a safe landing, not a free flight.

The secrecy is more upon the lines of God letting you succeed and fail when nescessary. Do you deny that if someone you trusted would tell you to do something, you would do it without question? Of course you would! But you wouldnt learn anything.

It's a learning tool. Sometimes, he gives you helpful hints, or sets affairs in order that will lead you on the right track, but you need to help yourself sometimes.

You need to fail, and then learn from it.
And would you listen anyways?

It certainly gives the impression, though, that God is completely absent.
I once found him absent until he flippin' scared me half to death with a ghost which later possessed my friend!

But… you know…

I don't know, that's kind of a weasling out of it explanation. If I was God, things would be a lot better around here. I'd gladly give up my free will for peace.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:07AM
kyupol at 6:38PM, Feb. 12, 2008
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Then again, as Einstein showed, time is quantity that exists as part of the universe. When the universe didn't exist, time didn't exist. When time didn't exist, the universe didn't exist either (in other words, no beginning and no end). So the universe doesn't need an ultimate cause any more than God does. Simply saying “God exists outside of time” doesn't take away the need for an ultimate cause for God. If everything has an ultimate cause, so does God. The idea that God exists outside of time doesn't diminish the idea if God needs no ultimate cause, neither does the universe.

Ok. There is no God then.

Then what caused the existence of a universe and time in the first place?

Is it a mere accident? If everything is a mere accident, how did we evolve from bacteria to intelligent life?

In an accident, there is always disorder that results. I've seen wrecked cars when I worked in an auto garage. The body of the car doesnt look good after an accident. And the internal parts like the engine get damaged. The engine no longer functions. The car is no longer safe to drive.

As a result of an accident.

If an accident just caused everything to exist… and that accident suddenly caused everything to be organized (the planets, the laws of physics, chemistry, biology, etc. etc. etc.), then that accident must have some intelligence of its own.

How can an accident cause order? I cannot seem to understand that. Please explain.

too many people want to take the bible as literal as possible

When the bible spoke of days, it doesnt necessarily mean 24 hours. It could have meant millions of years in God's version of what we call “time”.

If God is infinite, then a “day” to him might mean millions of years.

wait a minute… if God doesn't exist in time, how can there be days or other concepts of time to a being like God?

I think that the “days” being spoken off in the bible are possibly God's way of communicating with the humans in terms they understood at that time.

Think about it. Today we have this thing called the internet that allows you to exist in two or more different websites at the same time. Imagine explaining it to a person 200 years ago. If you mention stuff about “processors” and “windows” and “icons” and “network”, and “gigabytes”, etc. etc. etc., they will not understand it at all.

When talking to a little kid, you have to use simple words or sign language. To get them to understand you.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
zaneeba_slave at 6:53PM, Feb. 12, 2008
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And there is a wierd issue with the idea of the Big Bang.

If the galaxies were made by an explosion of this humungous mass of gas and light, then where did it come from and what created it?


The same applies with God. where did God come from? Who made God? Did anyone make God? Did anyone make the giant light ball?

The world may never know.



And to reply to Atom Apple: God only allows wars that are worth fighting for. The least noble cause loses almost every time.

Maybe thats why America is losing this fight: Their cause isnt noble enough.

I cannot give you a correct answer, though, because I know very little about how God works. I am not a Christian expert ;)

I know alot of good Christian experts, though. I might ask them for a good answer and get back to ya.
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
Eunice P at 8:44PM, Feb. 12, 2008
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I believe in the possibility of the existence of god because there is a limitation to our level of intelligence and senses. It's like a deep sea-water fish swimming thousands of feet under the sea yet it does not comprehend that it is surrounded by water due to its limited intelligence. The same concept goes with our level of intelligence and senses.

I'm not a believer of any particular religion but I am always open for the possibility of the existence of god. If we only look at the perspective of restricting ourself base on our limited understanding (i.e. god is only a man-made imagination, etc.), then we are no different from the deep sea-water fish forever stuck under the sea bed, not knowing that there is a world that exists outside the sea. If a human mind is capable of breaking that limitation, our perspective of viewing the world will probably be significantly different.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 4:46AM, Feb. 13, 2008
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zaneeba_slave
And to reply to Atom Apple: God only allows wars that are worth fighting for. The least noble cause loses almost every time.

Maybe thats why America is losing this fight: Their cause isnt noble enough.

I cannot give you a correct answer, though, because I know very little about how God works. I am not a Christian expert ;)

I know alot of good Christian experts, though. I might ask them for a good answer and get back to ya.

A noble war? You're making him sound like a little kid with a magnifying glass with ants.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:07AM
ozoneocean at 5:16AM, Feb. 13, 2008
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Eunice P
I believe in the possibility of the existence of god because there is a limitation to our level of intelligence and senses. It's like a deep sea-water fish swimming thousands of feet under the sea yet it does not comprehend that it is surrounded by water due to its limited intelligence. The same concept goes with our level of intelligence and senses.

I'm not a believer of any particular religion but I am always open for the possibility of the existence of god. If we only look at the perspective of restricting ourself base on our limited understanding (i.e. god is only a man-made imagination, etc.), then we are no different from the deep sea-water fish forever stuck under the sea bed, not knowing that there is a world that exists outside the sea. If a human mind is capable of breaking that limitation, our perspective of viewing the world will probably be significantly different.
Extremely insightful :)
It's true- if you believe you can know all there is to know simply based on what you know, then you don't know much.

That's what a lot of science and philosophy is about: testing the limits of knowledge and expanding it beyond. So if you're prepared to do that, you can't really exclude any possibility.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:30PM
arteestx at 11:33AM, Feb. 13, 2008
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kyupol
Then what caused the existence of a universe and time in the first place?

It's a fascinating question and one I have no idea what the answer is. After all, “before” the universe existed, there was literally nothing; no there that was there. And time didn't exist either, so there is no time “before” the universe existed. So what was existence like prior to space and time? What caused the space/time and existence as we experience it to happen? We mortal, finite humans have no frame of reference to answer that.

And it's the same answer with God. What was the universe like before God? Before He existed, what was there? What caused God to exist? Again, our mortal, finite human minds have no frame of reference. But simply saying “God exists outside of time” is frankly a cop out that tries to sidestep this fascinating question.

But the bottom line is that I don't know the answer. We will continue to search for some frame of reference that might help us gain some insight and understanding. What was it like before space? Before time? Before God? I suspect this profound mystery will continue to haunt humanity for a loooooong long long time.


kyupol
How can an accident cause order? I cannot seem to understand that. Please explain.

This is a common misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. However, there are other threads that cover this, so I don't want to clutter this God thread discussing the particulars of evolution. So I am going to take this question and go to another thread (I think there's a Creationism thread not too far away).

Xolta is not intended for anyone under 18 years old.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
alibaba at 1:53PM, Feb. 13, 2008
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posts: 55
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Eunice P
I believe in the possibility of the existence of god because there is a limitation to our level of intelligence and senses. It's like a deep sea-water fish swimming thousands of feet under the sea yet it does not comprehend that it is surrounded by water due to its limited intelligence. The same concept goes with our level of intelligence and senses.

I'm not a believer of any particular religion but I am always open for the possibility of the existence of god. If we only look at the perspective of restricting ourself base on our limited understanding (i.e. god is only a man-made imagination, etc.), then we are no different from the deep sea-water fish forever stuck under the sea bed, not knowing that there is a world that exists outside the sea. If a human mind is capable of breaking that limitation, our perspective of viewing the world will probably be significantly different.

unfortunately there are two big problems with this kind of thinking.
it certainly is not bad of an idea to try and imagine all kinds of possibilities and not restrict oneself on just that what we can see directly in front of us.
but:
1) if you do that, then you have to do it thoroughly. “god” is only one possibility, but there are countless others which make as much (or as little) sense, like multiverses, layered dimensions (or however they call it) and many more.
2) the real problem is that its only that; imagination.
as long as there are no hints in nature that make a certain hypothesis likely, there is not much reason to take it serious (since there is no way to work with it).

in my opinion, there is no thing as a limitation for our minds.
after all, there is a difference between fish and humans; humans can learn.
so its only natural that we can't know everything from the start, but we can build up knowledge practically without boundaries.


kyupol
Then what caused the existence of a universe and time in the first place?

dunno XD .
but here's the deal: there are countless possibilities. like i said before, “god” is only one of them.
but this hypothesis sounds much too easy if you ask me, simply because god is supposedly so incomprehendable and omnipotent, etc. - making us humans look unbelievably limited.

kyupol
When the bible spoke of days, it doesnt necessarily mean 24 hours. It could have meant millions of years in God's version of what we call “time”.
If God is infinite, then a “day” to him might mean millions of years.

i'm sorry, but this doesn't work :| .
if you want to, you can interpret ANYTHING into a text like the bible.
okay, fine, the 7-day-creation is written loosely enough so its somehow acceptable.

but how about adam and eve? please, please don't tell me you want to take THAT literal.
or how about noah's ark? not even with divine powers would it have been possible to transport millions of species without 99% of them dying through disease and eating each other, not to mention that the ark would have to be miles long.

yes, the bible has its uses, but its not a book that can give us useful hints on the origins of humans or the universe (unless you cut out everything that doesn't fit in with scientifc facts and rearrange every word thats left x_x )
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM

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