Debate and Discussion

God: Yes or No?
PhatScurl at 11:48AM, July 16, 2006
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Yea, actually im having fun too.

Here's the article you wanted to see courtesy of the National Geographic

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0427_040427_noahsark.html

I can get a couple more articles of Biblical artifacts if you need to take a look.

(…and just like that the pressure building up in this topic dropped like a rock)
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
VegaX at 12:16PM, July 17, 2006
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PhatScurl
Here's the article you wanted to see courtesy of the National Geographic

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0427_040427_noahsark.html

Interesting stuff for sure.
But since it's dated april 2004 im assuming it didn't reveal much. Would have been great if it had though.

Although i don't believe in anything unexplained, such as a god or ghosts i still have a huge interest in such things.

I'd love to experience a un-earthly presence but it just hasn't happend yet, and im guessing it never will.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
VegaX at 11:26PM, July 17, 2006
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death_monk666
I have seen ghosts. Talked to ghosts. been attacked by ghosts. Basically at random points, some force lifts me and people I am with off the ground some 3 inches for a total time of one minute…

You've done to many sprite comics, it messed up your head.

In short, I don't believe you.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
VegaX at 11:47PM, July 17, 2006
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equinox
What sort of comic someone does has NOTHING to do with credibility.

I was kinda joking. I assumed it was obvious, but perhaps it wasn't. Sorry.

Anyway, let's not hi-jack this topic with ghost talk. If there isn't topic about ghost encounters someone should start one. Id love to hear what people have experienced regarding ghosts and other unexplained stuff.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
PhatScurl at 8:34AM, July 18, 2006
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MechaShiva
death_monk666
Yeah. Lets just continue.
So I believe that a being does exist, and that being is ‘God’. But he is not as how is depicted by any text.

In short, Yes, there is a “God”.

if what exists is not what's been depicted in any texts as God.. then… is it God? meaning, if the texts depict a giraff, a lion and a hypo, but what's out there is actually a dolphin… can we call it a giraff, a lion or a hypo? can we treat it as the one we always thought it was, tho even our texts deal with the creature in question, in a sense of essence and not as much as a physic presece?

There about 10 typoes in there and it still sounded smart!
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
PhatScurl at 9:24AM, July 18, 2006
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Jeez, you are debating against yourself here. Seriously! Your last 3 posts have been the exact opposite of the ones before it. Deathmonk if you'd please just decide which side your on, debate for that side, and stop confusing everybody
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
VegaX at 9:27AM, July 18, 2006
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So it appears a lot of people believe in a “force” more than an actuall “god”

Is there anyone here that thinks that this “force” is still around? Is there actually any point in praying and going to church?

Where does your belief stop?

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
PhatScurl at 9:50AM, July 18, 2006
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my belief will stop when the christian church decides that its okay to blow ourselves taking thousands with us.

Actually i'd probably just stop going to church and worship God in the way i see fit.

As for the point in going to church, from a christian point of view there's nothing that says something like “If you don't go to church, you'll be condemned to eternal damnation”. The only purpose of a church is for fellow believers to come together under one roof, and to be taught of God so we better understand what God asks of us.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
Titch at 11:36AM, July 18, 2006
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I would go as far as to say that “god” or other kinds of omnipotent forces (ie, fate, luck and so on) are the imagenery by product of the complex patterns that make up the human mind. Because we're such complex creatures we have trouble invisioning a universe that runs on simple rules. We want to believe that concepts we created, like “Justice” play some part in the way the world works, it's why we have the social structures we have today. When things beyond the control of these social structures occur, such a natural disasters, we feel forced to attribute them to a force that makes them meaningfull.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
VegaX at 12:05PM, July 18, 2006
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PhatScurl
The only purpose of a church is for fellow believers to come together under one roof, and to be taught of God so we better understand what God asks of us.

So you could call it a kind of “fan-club”? People that dig this “god guy” get together and sing some songs. (yeah, i know it's a bit more that that. :wink: )

But what i'm wondering is, do you think that he actually can hear you? Is he even aware of your existance if he is this big “force”? And if you think he can hear you, arn't you pissed that he constantly ignores you?

Since god never actually does anything, why do you think god is still around? Maybe he is someplace else creating brand new universes?

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
PhatScurl at 12:30PM, July 18, 2006
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God answers in ways greater than speaking to us.

God answers are not always immediate, they are sometimes slow and gradual. God never ignores anybodies prayers, the majority of the time he just chooses not to grant them. If God were to immediatley answer everybody's prayer, the world would be in chaos (Bruce Almighty was a good example of this, and entertaining to watch).

As for why God doesn't always speak to us with a voice is (according to the bible) his voice supposedly would cause you to drop dead in your tracks.

You got remember this is God, the guy knows everything, so he knows the risks behind each prayer
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
VegaX at 1:22PM, July 18, 2006
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That's really the kind of thing you hear from most religious people, and it really doesn't say anything.
Its the old “god works in mysterious ways” when in fact it means that he does nothing. Ever.

You pray = god does nothing. People die in horrible accidents/wars = god does nothing, kids get raped and killed = god does nothing.

Just recently many, many people died in the tsunami in Thailand. many of them children. Had they sined or something? why did they have to die? well….“god works in mysterious ways” eh?

There was a story in a newspaper, not too long ago, about a female priest. Her child got murdered and she quit the church. She just couldn't deal with believing in god when he did such a thing to her. All she felt was rage.

I'd find it pretty hard to be religious to be honest. And don't pull that “god tests your fate” shit, cos thats just messed up. Why the hell would you want to pray to a god that kills your child just to test you.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
PhatScurl at 2:15PM, July 18, 2006
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I understand what your saying, i myself struggle with the concept.

I find it hard to believe that God would let people die to test one person's faith but it has happened.There is a book in the bible, which i haven't completely finished yet so i don't have all the answers, but there's a book called Job in the Old Testament. In this book, the Devil comes to God and says that he can make his most faithful follower renounce his faith. God accepts his challenge allowing the Devil do whatever he wanted to the man except kill him. The Devil kills this mans whole family and turns him into a leper, but the man still does not renounce his faith. I have yet to finish the book, i might tonight, maybe i can answer your question better then.

For now, you must also understand that not all death's are caused by God's wrath. God has created a fully functioning world, and like we have said before, science can explain how it functions, so things like hurricanes and tidal waves, and other things like that are not because of God, its just how the world goes. Plus, people have free wills, murders and bombings are caused by us, and us alone.

So why doesn't God protect us, and why did God create these natural threats? Honestly i wish i knew, maybe its because if there weren't any threats there'd be no reason for us to come together and learn about each other. We could simply stay in our own personal holes and live.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
VegaX at 3:11PM, July 18, 2006
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That of course brings us to the big question. WHY? (and i think this will be my final thought in this topic)

What does it give you to pray to the big man upstairs? Seems to me it's not worth a damn since he is clearly a resting god. He lets us do whatever the hell we want and never interfear. War and terror? Not his problem.

I may come of as disrespectfull, but it's really facinating why people “waste” their time on this belief when it, actually, doesn't give you shit. It doesn't reward you or bring you anything that I don't get, me being someone NOT believing in god.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
PhatScurl at 4:00PM, July 18, 2006
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VegaX
That of course brings us to the big question. WHY? (and i think this will be my final thought in this topic)

What does it give you to pray to the big man upstairs? Seems to me it's not worth a damn since he is clearly a resting god. He let's us do whatever the hell we want and never interfear. War, terror. Not his problem.

I may come of as disrespectfull, but it's really facinating why people “waste” their time on this belief when it, actually, doesn't give you shit. It doesn't reward you or bring you anything that I don't get, me being someone NOT believing in god.

Your right we believers don't really get anymore than aethiests. If anything we recieve less. Christians have been prosecuted since the beginning, it has improved a lot now, we're not as despised and ridiculed anymore (not that im saying your doing that), but we carry the same burden as they did. We are supposed to give ourselves up to God, and do only what is rightious, which is near impossible for man to do. Few ever do, i myself am not ready. Our reward for being believers, for following God, is not in this life though. It is after our souls leave our bodies, and rise. Our reward for giving ourselves up is to enter a place where there is no suffering, no disasters. No death, rape, or even the slightest bit of hatred. Of course, you can guess im speaking of Heaven.

I just wanted to get this entry in here somewhere, awhile back i wrote in my livejournal something relating to this topic, if your interested in reading it heres the link: http://phatscurl.livejournal.com/986.html?mode=reply
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
Titch at 8:00PM, July 18, 2006
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People need to stop hearing “It's ok, God will sort it all out when you die” because it discourages them from trying to sort things out when they are alive. I think it's a cruel kind of fate for a person who tries to improve the quality of life for everyone around him to go to hell because they choose not to believe in God.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
PhatScurl at 5:07AM, July 19, 2006
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Titch
People need to stop hearing “It's ok, God will sort it all out when you die” because it discourages them from trying to sort things out when they are alive. I think it's a cruel kind of fate for a person who tries to improve the quality of life for everyone around him to go to hell because they choose not to believe in God.

Read that livejournal link i put in my last post, you might actually find that pretty interesting. It discusses just what your saying.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
PhatScurl at 8:42AM, July 19, 2006
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Essentially…yes
You hit the nail on the head. And i think anyone who acts like a good person, without any motivation to be a good person, should be able to get to heaven just as easily as someone who has that motivation.

As for immorality, Hell is not the thing we keep in mind. Ill use metaphor:

Let's say your in financial trouble, and if you don't raise so much money, you lose your house, or something that has meaning to you. So you setup a fundraiser. While your running that fundraiser, maybe at first you have in mind the risks (Hell), but the longer you run it, you stop thinking about the risks and just keep one thing in mind, the goal (Heaven).

Not exactly the best metaphor, but it catches the concept.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
PhatScurl at 10:00AM, July 19, 2006
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Okay, you got my head spinning now, but your right, at least when it comes to my theory. I suppose the best way to make my theory work is to say:

If you loathe doing good

And enjoy doing whats wrong

Your not really a good person.

If you enjoy doing good

and loathe doing what's wrong

You are a good person.

Your asking me really good questions, that i hadn't thought about, and i thank you for that, cause now i can tweak my theory into something more balanced.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
Titch at 12:41PM, July 19, 2006
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Toget back to topic:
6)There is a “force” controling most of the universe.

Yes, it's called physics. The problem is that peope want physics to be empathetic, to give life meaning, and to explain death, so they created God, Karma and the such to bridge that gap.

4)I have a question: If every act is a sin, then who does the Pope confess to?*

The Pope confesses to god.

1)You can die this very second. No one knows when they will die. Make the most of life while you can.
2)If you have fun, then it will be worth it in the end.

Are you saying Ghandi's life wasn't “worth it” because he didn't have fun? :)

5)How do we even know that Heaven exists? Aside from the texts, we have no proof. We could end up going to a fertile land split off in all directions.

We don't have proof of ANYTHING in this debate, that's kind of the point. These concepts are created to deal with the shortfalls of science and society in explaining life. It's my firm belief that if people quit concerning themselves with stuff like this and turned it to improving the quality of life, we would live in a real world much closer to any inception of heaven.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
PhatScurl at 12:59PM, July 19, 2006
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you guys are right, we have no proof that there is a heaven. But as far as im concerned God's kept all his promises, so for me at least if God says there's a heaven, im gonna take his word for it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
Titch at 1:21PM, July 19, 2006
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death_monk666
1)On Ghandi, Ghandi's life was worth it because he did have fun. He had fun and moved us to today

Yes, because starving yourself for weeks on end is FUN, because laying down in front of horses is fun, because seeing your own people get massacred is fun. Ghandi wasn't didn't believe in having fun, he believed that India should be a free nation. For his efforts, the British Empire split it in half. In short, he achived his goal at such a cost that it wasn't worth it, and he didn't have much “fun” along the way. Yet, phychologists considering him a “self forfilled”.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
VegaX at 2:33PM, July 19, 2006
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PhatScurl
But as far as im concerned God's kept all his promises, so for me at least if God says there's a heaven, im gonna take his word for it.

What promises? That he would ignore everyone and never do anything? Yeah, i'd say he kept his word on that.

And again i'd like to say that the bible was written by some monks. Not god.
The bible contains at the most a bunch of travelers tales. The bible shouldn't be considered as proof or something that contains facts.

Unless he swops down here and writes a message to us himself, there is no “word of god.”

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
PhatScurl at 4:55PM, July 19, 2006
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your entitled to whatever you think
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
LowResAtari at 7:40PM, July 19, 2006
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Isn't there a video somewhere of some guy that says “Bananas prove that God exsists” or something like that?

:?
99% of people would've finished this sente
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:47PM
phear at 11:47PM, July 21, 2006
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maybe?
I believe there is some sort of higher power that somehow created everything. But I have no idea if this greater power's name is God, it could be named Billy-Bob for all I know. Religion is just belief, it is hope, and it is fear. I strongly believe that one of the main reasons religion was created was to keep people in line; if you break a commandment you will be smited and punnished with eternal damnation is just a way to keep people from doing bad stuff
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
VegaX at 9:24AM, July 22, 2006
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phear
I believe there is some sort of higher power that somehow created everything.

I have many friends who believe that there is “something” out there, but it's not THE god. I like to believe in that aswell, but nothing i've seen so far points to it.

Still, it's a whole lot better than believing in a god that humans made up. It's time to leave the dark ages damnit.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
Duck at 6:52PM, July 29, 2006
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Personally, I belive in a God, not a religion.

The reasoning: because I can create. That makes me belive in a higher power.

Now religion and the bible: I can't follow the bible, mostly because I don't belive in the principles of sin.

Oringinal sin has NEVER sat well with me. I belive for one to be punished, you have to do something. This concept of being born with sin, is something that made no sense for me.

“I'm an all loving being, but you're born an evil being”

Doesn't make sense to me.

Also with as many good deeds people who don't follow one religion do, I can't belive they would be punished for using the ability to conceive. If someone uses his/her god given intelligence to disbelive in god, why would god punish them?

The logic given to me for this was “if you had a party and someone came that they said they didn't belive in you, would you let them in”

and my response was “yeah, it shows i do exist”

So, yeah, in closing I belive in a god, but I don't know how we would worship this being, even if we would. I just belive in being a good person.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:17PM
Comicmasta at 9:44AM, July 30, 2006
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Ah but before the universe even existed it was just one large ball of nothingness, probably the…..ONLY planet…And maybe theirs more then one god anyone think of that, after all how could you just think the whole universe was made by one person.
i have been brought back….The Boanitia..grrrrr…..Must find Super Jesus!!!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:43AM
Comicmasta at 2:24PM, July 30, 2006
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Comicmasta
Ah but before the universe even existed it was just one large ball of nothingness, probably the…..ONLY planet…And maybe theirs more then one god anyone think of that, after all how could you just think the whole universe was made by one person.
Because he isn't a “person”. As I've stated before, that would be assuming he has the work ethics of a human. When you're talking about a giant magical bearded man, you can pretty much make your own rules after that.

Plus, one man can build an entire castle if he has enough time. Ever think of that?
Yeah but the castle'd be very shitty
i have been brought back….The Boanitia..grrrrr…..Must find Super Jesus!!!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:43AM

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