Media Megaforum

Hell Boy II: The Golden Army
Walrus at 4:57PM, July 11, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,159
joined: 2-18-2007
I haven't seen either of them, they look good though.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:45PM
SpANG at 6:56PM, July 11, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
I loved the first movie! I have to say I'm a little disappointed that David Hyde Pierce doesn't seem to be the voice of Abe Sapien this time around. I thought it was a perfect addition last time. :(

Not gonna let that keep me from seeing it. It looks pretty good. Pretty decent ratings at rottentomatoes.com (86% last I checked).
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
isukun at 10:22PM, July 11, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,481
joined: 9-28-2006
I have to admit, even without David Hyde Pierce, Doug Jones does a decent job of emulating the same sort of personality this time around (much better than in the animated films, anyway). Having Seth MacFarlane voice Krauss was also kind of fun. It seemed to have more light-hearted moments than the previous movie, as well, and I thought that was a good thing since I felt the previous film needed to take itself a little less seriously. It would have been nice if they hadn't tried to force a sequel with this one, though. It doesn't end on a cliffhanger, but they leave some things way open.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
jalford at 2:40AM, July 12, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,131
joined: 1-19-2006
Doug Jones did a better job of Abe's voice in the animated flicks than DHP did in the first movie. I saw him last month in TN., and he totally fits the character vocally.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
SpANG at 3:16PM, July 12, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
isukun
…It seemed to have more light-hearted moments than the previous movie, as well, and I thought that was a good thing since I felt the previous film needed to take itself a little less seriously.

Soo… It's “Men in Black” now? This concerns me.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
jalford at 4:17PM, July 12, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,131
joined: 1-19-2006
BPRD was basically like a MIB of paranormal activities. Unlike the X-Files guys who almost never find anything.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
isukun at 6:08PM, July 12, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,481
joined: 9-28-2006
Soo… It's “Men in Black” now?

It's a very different kind of light-hearted than Men in Black. The story is still more mature and darker than MiB (and definitely more complex), the villain takes himself very seriously, but there are moments of humor which stem more from the attitudes of your major hero characters and the way most of the non-human characters never seem to be surprised by anything, no matter how out of the ordinary it may be, even to them. In MiB the world itself is ridiculous and bizarre, which isn't really the same style you get in Hellboy or its sequel. It just seems smarter than that. Plus, the action scenes aren't marred by constant shaky-cam.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
jalford at 12:29AM, July 13, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,131
joined: 1-19-2006
Or Will Smith's insistantly agonizing yelling.
I'm a shark-slayer! No, you're a no-talent asshole!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
SpANG at 8:11PM, July 14, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
isukun
Soo… It's “Men in Black” now?

It's a very different kind of light-hearted than Men in Black. The story is still more mature and darker than MiB (and definitely more complex), …

Yeah, I just saw it. It was Men in Black. Especially the first 10 minutes as they are walking through the institute. Well, really it was Men in Black II, because the story was extremely simplistic and the dialog was excruciatingly campy. The first Hellboy was great because it did have SOME serious tones. This one not only had no serious tones at all, it has absolutely no suspense and full blown schmaltz all the way through. Also the message was just great. “F**k the rest of the world (that we always save). One person is more important.”

Not to mention the fact that they steered so far from the comic story that it was pathetic.

I'll probably post exactly what I thought sucked later. But it seems I am in the minority. I found it extremely disappointing.



“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
isukun at 9:01PM, July 14, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,481
joined: 9-28-2006
Especially the first 10 minutes as they are walking through the institute.

You mean the 30 second sequence where they're walking through the hallway, after which they never do anything like it again for the lest of the movie? Yeah, that makes the WHOLE FILM like Men in Black II.

This one not only had no serious tones at all, it has absolutely no suspense and full blown schmaltz all the way through.

You must have seen a totally different movie than I did, then. I saw plenty of serious tones in there. Man vs Nature, Hellboy's identity crisis/lack of a father figure/role model, completely different world views between Hellboy and Liz, conflicts between following procedure and helping people, conflicts over who the real antagonist is, etc. As for suspense, the first movie wasn't all that suspenseful, either. These aren't horror/suspense films, they're action/comedy. They have some darker undertones, but any sense of suspense is usually killed by the attitudes of the characters. It worked the same way in the first movie.

Also the message was just great. “F**k the rest of the world (that we always save). One person is more important.”

Only Liz seemed to have that mentality and from what I could see in the film, that contributed to their issues in the movie. Liz is a character who is bitter towards the world in general, anyway, so what she did shouldn't come as any surprise. Everyone else, particularly Hellboy, seemed to be fighting to save humanity, despite being presented with some pretty convincing reasons not to. Abe made a stupid decision, but I think he felt he could come back from it. In the end he paid for it.

Not to mention the fact that they steered so far from the comic story that it was pathetic.

This argument I get sick of. If you want the comic storyline go read the comics. Don't ever bother to watch any comic related film because none of them are ever going to be all that close to the original comic story line.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
SpANG at 7:27PM, July 15, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
isukun
You mean the 30 second sequence where they're walking through the hallway, after which they never do anything like it again for the lest of the movie? Yeah, that makes the WHOLE FILM like Men in Black II.
The little bedtime story in the beginning was pretty dirivative too. And really, why the hell a bedtime story anyway? That was totally unnecessary and stupid. There are far better ways to introduce the backstory.

You must have seen a totally different movie than I did, then. I saw plenty of serious tones in there. Man vs Nature, Hellboy's identity crisis/lack of a father figure/role model, completely different world views between Hellboy and Liz, conflicts between following procedure and helping people, conflicts over who the real antagonist is, etc. As for suspense, the first movie wasn't all that suspenseful, either. These aren't horror/suspense films, they're action/comedy. They have some darker undertones, but any sense of suspense is usually killed by the attitudes of the characters. It worked the same way in the first movie.
I don't feel the need to respond to this whole thing, since you obviously DID see a different movie. The whole story was schmaltzy and dumb. Though the IDEA wasn't bad, it was executed in the worst possible way. The action sequences did not have me hanging on the edge of the seat like the last movie. Ever.

me
Also the message was just great. “F**k the rest of the world (that we always save). One person is more important.”

you
Only Liz seemed to have that mentality and from what I could see in the film, that contributed to their issues in the movie. Liz is a character who is bitter towards the world in general, anyway, so what she did shouldn't come as any surprise. Everyone else, particularly Hellboy, seemed to be fighting to save humanity, despite being presented with some pretty convincing reasons not to. Abe made a stupid decision, but I think he felt he could come back from it. In the end he paid for it.
Hellboy said it to Liz right in the beginning. It was supposed to be prophetic. Then Abe says it and it becomes a theme.

me
Not to mention the fact that they steered so far from the comic story that it was pathetic.

you
This argument I get sick of. If you want the comic storyline go read the comics. Don't ever bother to watch any comic related film because none of them are ever going to be all that close to the original comic story line.
You now what I'm tired of? People using this excuse over and over again for a disappointing movie. The movie is BASED off of the SUCCESS of the comic book! Why even call it “Hellboy” then if the comic isn't necessary? The characters were practically polar opposites of what they should have been. Spider-Man 2, X-Men, Iron Man, Hulk… There are tons on comic book movies that do it right. This simply is one of the hundreds that don't.

The writer of the Hellboy comic is a genius. The writer of Hellboy 2 wrote a quick, weekend screenplay with no imagination in it whatsoever. Which is really Depressing since he did a great job with the first one.

There was nothing original in this movie. It's not even memorable.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
isukun at 9:15PM, July 15, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,481
joined: 9-28-2006
You now what I'm tired of? People using this excuse over and over again for a disappointing movie. The movie is BASED off of the SUCCESS of the comic book! Why even call it “Hellboy” then if the comic isn't necessary?

Were the reasons that you guys didn't like it the lame “Optimus wasn't a cab over” or “Bumble Bee wasn't a gay looking beetle” or “Megatron isn't a gun whose size differential never made any real sense” or “The movie had *gasp* humans in it!”

Hypocrite much? That alone makes it impossible for me to respect your opinion. It isn't worth my time to argue the other points, it's obvious to me that you haven't a clue what you're talking about and are so concerned with the movie staying true to the comic you're willing to find fault in it anywhere you can.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
SpANG at 9:46PM, July 15, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
Did I complain about the aesthetics of the characters in Hellboy? NO. I complained about the story.

As for the Transformers movie, I was pointing out the ridiculousness of people bashing it just because of small tweaks to the looks of the characters to make the movie more logical.

Why don't you try actually reading things before you cherry pick posts?

But by all means, please feel free NOT to correspond with me. Your respect (and your opinion) is something I will never lose sleep over. ;)
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
jalford at 12:58AM, July 16, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,131
joined: 1-19-2006
Saw it, and liked it. Definately the best pre-Dark Knight superhero movie this summer, minus Iron-Munch. There was that whole thing of if a bunch of onlookers saw a freakish superhero saving a baby and destroying a larger monster to save them and the city, but still piss on him for doing it anyway because he looks different stuff. I know it's a movie, but if some large red horned guy is clearly seen saving an infant, and then extinct-ifies a rampaging forest god(ala: Princess Mononoke)just to save a couple of ungrateful humans(from Jersey!), they wouldn't start pissing all over the poor bastard. Just a little too much of your sterotypical movie “general public”.

The only other problem I had was the flick was about an extra 10 minutes too long. Plus, Liz looked WAAAAY too much like Trinity. I'm suprised they didn't have her falling out of a skyscraper while shooting a Blues Bros. lookalike on the way down. Although the Gelfling chick was totally hot!

Not to give away what is clearly not only the BEST scene in this movie, but any scene from ANY superhero movie for at least the last 10 years(Dark Knight included), but you will totally love it, otherwise you don't know how to have a good time. You'd never see Hulk and Iron-Man doing that!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
lastcall at 3:52AM, July 16, 2008
(offline)
posts: 1,358
joined: 11-3-2007
Ever since I saw the first Hellboy and then after watching Pan's Labyrinth (a really beautiful movie, by the way), I think Guillermo del Toro would do an awesome job at directing/visualizing the anticipated Warcraft movie. His style would fit in nicely and make a really unique and memorable film. ….If they are making it live-action, that is.

SpANG
Why don't you try actually reading things before you cherry pick posts?

Because that's isukun. He always thinks he's right, and he doesn't care about anyone else's opinion. …You should see how he bashes people over in the Gaming threads. It makes me sick. :dizzy: His avatar fits him perfectly…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:28PM
SpANG at 1:41PM, July 16, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
jalford
Not to give away what is clearly not only the BEST scene in this movie, but any scene from ANY superhero movie for at least the last 10 years(Dark Knight included), but you will totally love it, otherwise you don't know how to have a good time. You'd never see Hulk and Iron-Man doing that!
I certainly hope you aren't taking about the moronic “Barry Manilow” scene.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
jalford at 3:19PM, July 16, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,131
joined: 1-19-2006
FUCK YEAH!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
isukun at 4:33PM, July 16, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,481
joined: 9-28-2006
You should see how he bashes people over in the Gaming threads.

Actually, I'm kind of interested in seeing how I “bash” people on the gaming threads, as well. Last time I checked, expressing an opinion was not the same as personally attacking someone who doesn't share that opinion.

As for the Transformers movie, I was pointing out the ridiculousness of people bashing it just because of small tweaks to the looks of the characters to make the movie more logical.

That is not at all how you presented it. Why mention the humans at all, then, or the changes made that don't have anything to do with the logic of the film? Also, why end your post with “Maybe you guys just got too old to enjoy it” if it wasn't about people letting their nostalgia get in the way of enjoying the movie?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
SpANG at 7:35AM, July 17, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
Ugh. You again.

You misunderstood my points in that thread then. The human characters in the Transformers movie WERE aesthetic. They were window dressing to make the movie look softer and more appealing. That said they had no character development and no memorable screnes. The movie was robot-centric, despite your views.

There is a difference between talking about components of a movie, and completely twisting a character to something he/she never, ever was in the comic/story/whatever. Call Transformers what you like, but it did not change the characters to suit the projected demographic audience.

It's like if they introduced a female robot love interest for Optimus Prime or Bumble Bee was outed as gay. You don't mess with characters if you want the actual fans of the concept to hate it.

As for the “You're too old” comment, I was replying more to your grumpy posts than a “you're living in the past” mentality.

And yeah, I just may be “too old” to enjoy Hellboy II as well, I guess. But I've seen these stupid formulas before. “Shh, don't tell him I'm pregnant for the entire movie”, saving babies in stupid ways, ‘blinded by love’ judgments, drunk off your ass scenes… They are cliche. It's all been done before. And it always ruins movies.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
isukun at 6:00PM, July 17, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,481
joined: 9-28-2006
The movie was robot-centric, despite your views.

That's funny because Michael Bay has said in interviews that the movie was more about Sam than about giant robots. In order to make it more accessible, he wanted a heavier emphasis on the human characters and the “coming of age” storyline involving Sam than on the robots. He never liked the idea of making a movie about the toys. But what does he know, he only made the movie. Obviously you know better.

Call Transformers what you like, but it did not change the characters to suit the projected demographic audience.

Most of the characters had very little personality. What was there frequently was changed from the original. Michael Bay was specifically shooting for a younger audience with the movie. The humor and writing is aimed squarely at a teen audience, which would explain why it rates higher among teens than among people who actually grew up with the toys and cartoon. The actual Transformers are dumbed down and their screen presence is minimized so they don't seem more important than Sam. They are more plot devices than actual characters.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
SpANG at 6:11PM, July 17, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
isukun
Obviously you know better.
I accept your apology.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Atom Apple at 8:41PM, July 17, 2008
(online)
posts: 6,921
joined: 8-5-2006
isukun
Especially the first 10 minutes as they are walking through the institute.

You mean the 30 second sequence where they're walking through the hallway, after which they never do anything like it again for the lest of the movie? Yeah, that makes the WHOLE FILM like Men in Black II.

Especially = only in your mind, isukun?

I learned something today.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:07AM
Custard Trout at 1:10AM, July 18, 2008
(offline)
posts: 4,566
joined: 2-22-2007
I didn't even like the first film, or Hellboy at all. So there.
Hey buddy, you should be a Russian Cosmonaut, and here's why.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:01PM
kingofsnake at 6:18AM, July 18, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,374
joined: 9-27-2006
I liked it. I saw it last night. I don't particularily agree with Spang or isukun on this one… usually I find myself on one extreme or the other, which to me is what these two gentlemen represent in this flamewar.

(to the thunderdome bitches!)



I thought it was a sold movie. Not perfect by any means, and it'll probably be as forgetable as the first one in the middle of this summer's huge blockbuster season. But it was alot of fun. All the characteres jived with versions from the other films. The fact that this movie even got made at all is pretty amazing… not in that “how could they…” kinda way like Made of Honor with Patrick Dempsey, but that “I can't believe they…” kinda way because the Hollywood machine doesn't usually let sequels like this get out of development. I liked that the heavier themes were more muted than overwhelming. Spiderman was always up your ass with the whole “great power, great responsiblity” thing. I think Hellboy is a far more complex character because you get to see glimmers of all the different things that affect his decisions, but then you also see him try to supress being visably affected by them, not just in the emotional scenes, but pretty much constantly. What he is; how he's different from both humans and magical beings; what he's destined for; they're all always in the back of his mind. I'm sorta talking myself into liking it more than I really did. I think theres more to this movie than whats on the surface, but I think whats on the surface is still pretty entertaining.

So if you're like me and don't really read comics, but like a good superhero movie, then you'd probably like this. But what the hell do I know, I liked X-men 3.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 12:04PM, July 18, 2008
(offline)
posts: 395
joined: 1-16-2006
The movie was fun, much better then MIB, but it was sadly lacking in some areas.

The villain is weak though which really hurts the movie though. I enjoyed the characters more in this movie I just wish the story had been better.

All in all fun move with good actors, great moments, decent action, pretty good effects but weak villians and lousy plot.

So really it depends on what you want out of the movie. It was good enough that I still want them to make a 3rd movie but I do hope they learn from their mistakes in this on next time around and get a rock solid plot.

All in all it isn't Iron Man but neither was it Fantastic Four.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
isukun at 10:02PM, July 19, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,481
joined: 9-28-2006
usually I find myself on one extreme or the other, which to me is what these two gentlemen represent in this flamewar.

“It doesn't suck” is an extreme? I never said it was the best movie ever, I just don't agree with Spang's view that it's the worst movie ever.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
SpANG at 7:01AM, July 20, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
isukun
usually I find myself on one extreme or the other, which to me is what these two gentlemen represent in this flamewar.

“It doesn't suck” is an extreme? I never said it was the best movie ever, I just don't agree with Spang's view that it's the worst movie ever.
… And I didn't say “It was the worst movie ever”. I said “ I was disappointed with it”.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Wills42 at 7:20AM, July 20, 2008
(online)
posts: 164
joined: 11-3-2007
I thought this film was great! Any film that has a ‘Can’t Smile Without You' scene in it, while the main characters are drunk, is okay by me. Del Torro is a fantastic director. I liked how this film focused more on the fantasy than the science fiction of the first film. I didn't realize that Seth Mcfarlane did the voice of Vonn Krouse until the credits came up. Doug Jones and Ron Pearlman are both great actors who make their characters seem all the more real. Four stars out of Five.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:50PM
Ronson at 7:56AM, July 20, 2008
(online)
posts: 837
joined: 1-1-2006
I hated it. Really.

Now, I am pretty sure I know the reasons I hated it:

1. Predictable from beginning to end, especially when you understand the Prince/Princess relationship. The side stories: the Liz pregnant and Abe in love stuff is all according to overworn plot devices.

2. The relationship drama was portrayed like teenagers and not adults. Hellboy is, what, over 60 at this point? Even if this was his first relationship, that doesn't explain his childishness. And Abe? Ugh! Prepubescent puppy love on an otherwise incredibly intelligent character? … but that also all plays into my first gripe - predicitablity.

3. My mindset is out of step with the majority. Yep, I am not the audience they want. That's obvious from reason #2 and somewhat from reason #1. There is safety in predictibility, and many people don't like it when a movie goes in any uncertain directions. On top of that, I don't like the message. While I can get behind anti-authoritarianism, I can't understand anyone who would destroy the world to have their own way (that's Liz (in action) and Hellboy (in words) in this movie) and then still expect the audience to consider them heroes.

4. I'm too big a fan of the comic. As far as I'm concerned, the main characters are portrayed dumber and less experienced than in the comic. I mean about the jobs that they've been doing for quite a few years now. In the comic, Hellboy is a heroic mix of punching and experience with the paranormal. In the movie, he's an idiot who hits things. The fact that I dare compare it to the comic might offend some, but that's the way it is for the folks who were there first. Live with it. Next time, it will be you complaining that something doesn't fit your personal vision.

So there. I am now at the polar opposite end of the folks who liked it. Those who did like it probably liked it for some of the exact reasons I didn't and probably a bunch of reasons that don't matter to me.

But it sucked. Really, really sucked.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Fenn at 12:27PM, July 20, 2008
(offline)
posts: 561
joined: 9-28-2007
Ronson
I hated it. Really.

Now, I am pretty sure I know the reasons I hated it:
I agree with all your points. I also didn't like that the whole Prince/Princess thing meant that, at the end of the day, the “heroes” weren't even needed and could have just stayed home and pretty much had the same result.

BUT, even with all that, I still enjoyed the movie. I'm complicated like that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:26PM

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved