Debate and Discussion

Homosexuality 'cure and research'
Evil Emperor Nick at 2:08PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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I have a question I am honestly currious about what people will say:

Lets us assume for a moment this was a volentary procedure and not an experiment is parent prefered babies or population “fixing” but instead simply and medical option which people in the future will have avaliable but not pushed on them.

If you assume trans-gendered individuals are bad and unatural would trans-sexual people also fall into the same catagory? Wouldn't changing them be unatural and against god's plans for people and something amoral to tamper with in one's self? Likewise if you support trans-gender operations to help people live the way the want should't you be in favor of offering people trans-sexuality for the same reasons? If one encourages people to be free to pick the gender they feel is right for them shouldn't one be in favor of giving people the same freedom of sexuality?

I'm sure there would be a very, very small percentage of the population who would jump at the chance to be sexually rewired feeling they were born the wrong way the same as with trans-gendered individuals.

It seems to me the philosophically speaking the two sides positions should actually be reversed.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
kyupol at 2:09PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Kyupol said

“Its a good thing since less people will be depressed and commiting suicide about it.”

Um, that's a crazy thing to say, and I can honestly say that it is frightening to me.

Obviously, it would make more sense to say that Homosexuals are depressed because so many of the people around them are vicious, stupid homophobes.

Do you suppose that homophobia is a disease and that we will eventually find a cure for it?

I can only paraphrase Rikki Ann Wilchins the famous activist - “I was born with a problem - I was born in a culture where people hate me for no good reason!”


And so we return to my point - the problem with “curing” people of such things is that we do not all agree on what should be “cured.” Shall we cure homophobia? A foolish belief in the supernatural and religion? What if an obsession with webcomics is a disease that should be cured?

I say, tread lightly, lest ye be tread upon.

For me, this homosexuality research has little to do with homosexuality itself. Because I'm not homosexual nor do I take this gay issues stuff the church talks about more seriously. My family is hardline Catholic and when I told them I don't care about the legalization of gay marriages in canada, I got frowned upon for having “weak faith” and not thinking about the “common good” lol!.

Though I agree that the church should focus on more important stuff instead of bickering about homosexuality as if ALL homosexuals are a menace to society. :)

It is about changing a person's mind pattern is what I'm more interested in.

If it were possible to “cure” homosexuality, that means it will be possible to cure other things that are mind-driven or caused by biological factors. Other things that are more of a menace to society and may cause more problems to humanity.

I have a little scenario for you.

Lets say we have a homosexual man who is married to a WOMAN and has 3 kids. He is married to A WOMAN because of family pressure. You know… being brought up in a hardline religious environment that is hostile to gays.

I think that “curing” this man's homosexuality would be beneficial for him and his family. Because it will save him thousands of dollars for divorce charges, alimony, and child support he has to pay his wife in the event of a divorce.

“Curing” him would be a much better solution than letting his wife and kids be separated from him… and being disowned by his family. On side note, I heard stories of jews who were disowned by their family for marrying non-jews. It was very painful for these poor jews.

“Curing” him would be a better alternative than reasoning out with his whole family and shoving “tolerance of homosexuals” and “diversity” down their throats as if its a dictatorship thing. (take note the religious background of the family)


Other good that may result from altering the mind patterns of people… is other things like:
- changing the mind pattern of pedophiles so they wont be sexually attracted to children anymore.

- changing mind patterns of people who have “weird” sexual preferences that can be a threat to their marriages. There are people who are more into the conventional sex and none of that fetish crap. I could just imagine the shock of a wife for instance… to find out that her hubby has a fetish for giantess vore or any of that stuff that may be considered “creepy”.

- changing mind patterns of the worst criminals in order to make them more productive to society.

- and what I wished was done to me a long time ago: Change my mind pattern to make me into an alpha male. Because based on analysis of my own life I found out that I could have avoided the bullying I experienced in school if I wasn't acting like a weakling and if I wasnt so passive. If only I had more of the aggression of an alpha male in my brain, all these years of depression could have been prevented and I would have had a more meaningful life in highschool.


Though I also sense BAD things that may be a result of this scientific breakthrough… something like taking brainwashing to the next level and creating a dictatorship.


Just my 2 cents on this.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 2:14PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Kyupol you assume people know what they want. How do you know you would be happier or better off as an Alpha? You might just end up a big jerk whom no one likes.

Logically what would you say to the reverse? Someone as a child was abused by women and thus has serious issues with females etc. etc. Wouldn't it be better to make him gay since he could have seriously issues with females? Wouldn't it be easier for his family then to see him suffer trying to make strait relationships work when he could be simply attacted to males instead?

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
kyupol at 2:34PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Evil Emperor Nick
Kyupol you assume people know what they want. How do you know you would be happier or better off as an Alpha? You might just end up a big jerk whom no one likes.

Alpha males get the best experience in their life. They become the leaders… they have lots of friends… they get the best females… they get the largest social networks… etc.

I believe humans have retained the past animal instincts we had when we were neanderthals.

We. Are. Animals.

You know the expression “dog eat dog”?

I noticed that if you show weakness especially if you are a man, you will get a pile of shit handed to you. We are similar to a colony of ants. If you break an ant's antennae or a couple of its legs and put it back to the colony, that ant will get devoured by the other ants.

In a human society, for instance if you are fed up with all pain and rejection then you go to myspace or youtube or any msg board out there and start whining and bitchin about all the pain, you are branded an emo fag or something negative. Instead of being helped, the more your face gets grounded more to the dust. That IS the blatant truth.

Weakness IS not tolerated. Weakness IS punished.

The opposite also holds true. If you are strong, you become the center. People will respect you and on some occasions, their lives will revolve around you. Look at the people who gained absolute power. Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jong Il, Saddam Hussein… Do you think these guys are weak? How the hell were they able to gain control of a nation? Ok ok… these are ‘bad guys’. And yeah even if they're bad guys, they still had large numbers of people devoted to them. Numbers… for sure wayyy larger than my social network. Look. In 2003, Saddam had 10% of Iraqi army who were hardcore loyal to him. Thats about something like 20,000 people at least who LIKED him and ready to die and kill for him.

What about “good guys” like Jesus Christ, Buddha, Mohammad, etc… How were they able to get sooo many people up to this day worshipping them? (err… I believe Jesus IS GOD but to an atheist, Jesus is just another man with lots of charisma and alpha male qualities).

Or simply… what about the CEOs of a corporation? They hold their heads up high and they DO NOT behave like beta males…. or else if they do it for ONE DAY what will happen to their companies? lol!

I've tried my best over the years… to make myself into an alpha male and defeat all of the negative things that caused me to be depressed and have low self-esteem. I had partial success at it… in a way because at least I already know when to stand up and let people know that if they fuck with me they'd get hurt. Fuckin auto-dealership… lol! I swear if I acted like the uber-beta male I was back in highschool, I'd be a victim of “workplace harrassment” lol!


Anyway, I think the reasons why homosexuals are hated and given shit in the first place is because of the WEAKNESS they show.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
kyupol at 2:41PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Logically what would you say to the reverse? Someone as a child was abused by women and thus has serious issues with females etc. etc. Wouldn't it be better to make him gay since he could have seriously issues with females? Wouldn't it be easier for his family then to see him suffer trying to make strait relationships work when he could be simply attacted to males instead?

… I actually know a guy who embraced homosexuality because of at least 7 failed relationships with women.

Now he's a happier man.

(Though I disagree on him when he says homosexual relationships are superior to heterosexual relationships lol!)
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 2:50PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Hmm, well thank's for answering. As an alpha male I think we'll have to agree to disagree but I would be happy to discuss the matter in a different thread.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
mlai at 3:31PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Evil Emperor Nick
As an alpha male I think we'll have to agree to disagree
LOL, first rule of being an alpha male: Thou must be full of thyself.

Srsly.

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horseboy at 3:34PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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kyupol
For me, this homosexuality research has little to do with homosexuality itself. Because I'm not homosexual nor do I take this gay issues stuff the church talks about more seriously. My family is hardline Catholic and when I told them I don't care about the legalization of gay marriages in canada, I got frowned upon for having “weak faith” and not thinking about the “common good” lol!.

Though I agree that the church should focus on more important stuff instead of bickering about homosexuality as if ALL homosexuals are a menace to society. :)
Well you've got that whole “sexual deviancy falls below suicide and above murder” thing to work out before they chill on that. ;)
- and what I wished was done to me a long time ago: Change my mind pattern to make me into an alpha male. Because based on analysis of my own life I found out that I could have avoided the bullying I experienced in school if I wasn't acting like a weakling and if I wasnt so passive. If only I had more of the aggression of an alpha male in my brain, all these years of depression could have been prevented and I would have had a more meaningful life in highschool.

That wouldn't really help. The more people can “turn up” “alphaness” all it would do would be to raise the bar and you'd be the same place you were without it.
There is no such word as “alot”. “A lot” is two words.
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Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
Evil Emperor Nick at 3:39PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Like the spinage eating sailor once said: I am, what I am.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
CoyoteLongshot at 4:37PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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I really don't know if scientific testing would be a good use of anyone's money.

I don't think being gay is a “mental illness” or anything else, it's just a matter of preference. Different people have different interests, whether that applies to sexual preference or otherwise. You'd be just as well off doing scientific testing on why some people like horror movies and some like drama. You do what makes you happy.

Just my opinion, of course.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:47AM
Aurora Moon at 5:03PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Aurora Moon
And then somebody else decides to see it as an “cure”…. since how in the bible it clearly states how Blacks and such were seen as lowly people, etc…
Okay, this one I've got to see. What wacky version are you using to come to this? Chapter and verse please.

I was basically being satrical in using the “viewpoint” of the southern slave platations which justfied slavery of blacks by using the bible verses about slavery.

Did you know that the bible ensdores slavery?
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

more here: http://onanite.blogspot.com/2007/08/slavery-in-bible.html

So you see, Blacks and such were seen as “Forgieners” as compared to the whites at the time, and that was how they justfied them being slaves in the church snice it was right there in the bible. The bible also goes on about how forgieners and different cultures were “lowly” compared to herbews And christains.
oh yeah, really good values in teaching how slavery and hating those who are different than you.

To this day I've seen some pretty ingorant people still justfiy thier haterd of blacks and such in this way using the bible.

So you see… that's the reason why I used such a example to say that if Homosexuals were seen as lowly and to be dieased, then what would happen next after Homosexuality was “cured”? Why, Blacks and others could be next to be “cured”, snice it's according to the bible that they're lowly “forgieners” who are meant to be treated as nothing but property!
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bobhhh at 5:55PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Aurora Moon
I was basically being satrical in using the “viewpoint” of the southern slave platations which justfied slavery of blacks by using the bible verses about slavery.

Did you know that the bible ensdores slavery?
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


Yet another example of how worthless the bible is as justification for your actions, because there is so much conflicting doctrine, that anything taken out of context can seem to support your opinion. What do you expect by a centuries old document written by superstitious and duplicitous men.

Nice work Aurora!!
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
StaceyMontgomery at 7:55PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Kyupol said:

>

See, this is where we part company. You're eager to “cure” the homosexual, but you're also eager NOT to cure the homophobes. In fact, you clearly say it would be better to medically alter people who are different than to just teach “tolerance” and “diversity” and other things you think so little of.

You seem to dream of a world where we medically alter everyone to make them conform and live by your rules.

I'm sorry, I think that's evil.





last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
horseboy at 8:17PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Aurora Moon
I was basically being satirical in using the “viewpoint” of the southern slave plantations which justified slavery of blacks by using the Bible verses about slavery.

Did you know that the Bible endorses slavery?
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

more here: http://onanite.blogspot.com/2007/08/slavery-in-bible.html

So you see, Blacks and such were seen as “Foreigners” as compared to the whites at the time, and that was how they justified them being slaves in the church since it was right there in the Bible. The Bible also goes on about how foreigners and different cultures were “lowly” compared to Hebrews And Christians.
That's an interpretation of the Bible, not actually from the Bible that those whites were using.
oh yeah, really good values in teaching how slavery and hating those who are different than you.

To this day I've seen some pretty ignorant people still justify their hatred of blacks and such in this way using the Bible.
Yeah, there's nut jobbers in every group.
So you see… that's the reason why I used such a example to say that if Homosexuals were seen as lowly and to be diseased, then what would happen next after Homosexuality was “cured”? Why, Blacks and others could be next to be “cured”, since it's according to the Bible that they're lowly “foreigners” who are meant to be treated as nothing but property!
That's a HUGE leap there, but maybe as an eventual WAY down the line sort of crazy something I guess it could happen.

StaceyMontgomery
Kyupol said:

>

See, this is where we part company. You're eager to “cure” the homosexual, but you're also eager NOT to cure the homophobes. In fact, you clearly say it would be better to medically alter people who are different than to just teach “tolerance” and “diversity” and other things you think so little of.

You seem to dream of a world where we medically alter everyone to make them conform and live by your rules.

I'm sorry, I think that's evil.
Just out of curiosity, how is it less evil to mandate that someone accept something they find moral reprehensible than it is for them to mandate a cure. They're both pretty evil.
There is no such word as “alot”. “A lot” is two words.
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Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
ozoneocean at 8:36PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Just out of curiosity, how is it less evil to mandate that someone accept something they find moral reprehensible than it is for them to mandate a cure. They're both pretty evil.
Hahaha! That one's easy! :)
They're NOT inequivalent. ;)

In one case you're interfering with the entirety of a person's way of life (the “cure” ), in the other all you're doing is making sure that other people DON'T interfere with them, for whatever reason.

Letting someone have the right to be a certain way is more important by very many degrees than the issue of changing the way someone else feels about them. There IS no equivalence on the “evil” meter. ^_^
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
StaceyMontgomery at 8:43PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Horseboy asked me:

>

Are you serious?

Do you really think that “medically altering people to make them conform” is morally the same as “having to put up with people who are different from you” ?

See, I think that learning to get along with people who are different is, well, it's what adults do when they grow up. So no comparison between those two things, not at all.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Aurora Moon at 8:46PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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That's an interpretation of the Bible, not actually from the Bible that those whites were using.

Yeah, there's nut jobbers in every group.

That's a HUGE leap there, but maybe as an eventual WAY down the line sort of crazy something I guess it could happen.



Edited out all the rest in order to avoid confusion about what I'm replying to.

You may think it's just a interperation, but it's actually not. If you ever had a copy of the bible, like just laying around then you could go look it up. The bible is crock-full of lines about slavery, etc. and half the time while they dress it up in flowery terms and lays out some things about not mistreating your slaves, they still say that keeping slaves is an acceptable pratice.
So in a way you could say all those people justfitying thier haterd of blacks, etc could be actually very vaild in their viewpoints when they say that it's right there in the bible, and they're just doing what the bible tells them to.

Yes, it sounds like something only a nutcase could do…. but the sad truth is, there's a lot of bigots out there….
Even the bigots who hates the homosexuals.

It's the nature of The bigots… if they don't have homosexuals to hate, then they'll move on to something else to hate. Somebody who they can use as an scrapegoat for the “evils” of the world. And in a way the bible pretty much gives them a excuse to hate. “I'm right to hate those who are different than I am because the bible and god is backing me up! See, it says so in the bible that… blah blah blah.”
This whole thing with homosexuals is no different. So that's why I used “curing” people of their blackness and so on forth as an comparison of what could go on down further down the path.

Just out of curiosity, how is it less evil to mandate that someone accept something they find moral reprehensible than it is for them to mandate a cure. They're both pretty evil.

No, you don't get it. They're not saying people HAVE to accept it… they're saying that the religious bigots doesn't have ANY right to dicate what others does with thier lives…inducing being an homosexual.They don't have a right to tell the lesbains and the gay men of the world that they cannot adopt children, or to even get hitched to each other in a cermony.
They have no right to butt into others bussiness, espeically when telling others what they shouldn't do in the bedroom.

Yet, that's happening. did you know that in some states they have laws against oral and anal sex, even between two straight people? They don't even allow women to own sex toys for the purpose of masturbation, nethier. According to those states, the only kind of sex that's acceptable is Missionary sex with the lights off.
Yes, those laws aren't reinforced that much when it comes to the oral and anal sex bit, but still it's pretty appalling that they actually passed that law.

You see, it's all about the issue of violating others' lives in order to control somebody who you think should be more like you.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
kyupol at 9:25PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Kyupol said:

>

See, this is where we part company. You're eager to “cure” the homosexual, but you're also eager NOT to cure the homophobes. In fact, you clearly say it would be better to medically alter people who are different than to just teach “tolerance” and “diversity” and other things you think so little of.

You seem to dream of a world where we medically alter everyone to make them conform and live by your rules.

I'm sorry, I think that's evil.


So its not evil. We're just teaching them “tolerance” and “diversity”. And “equality”.

Now its time to round up all the Christians, Muslims, and Jews and all religions who reject homosexuality in their belief systems. Let us tell them to change their respective bibles to let them wed homosexual couples.

If they REFUSE to change their bibles and start yapping about Jesus and Mohammad or any of that religious bullcrap… lets just tell em to SHUT UP. And then let us just round them up and pack them all in trains and send them to secret locations. And its time for re-education through labour. They will serve a good use too… like test-subjects for new biological and chemical weapons.


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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
horseboy at 9:35PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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Aurora Moon
Edited out all the rest in order to avoid confusion about what I'm replying to.

You may think it's just a interpretation, but it's actually not. If you ever had a copy of the bible, like just laying around then you could go look it up. The bible is crock-full of lines about slavery, etc. and half the time while they dress it up in flowery terms and lays out some things about not mistreating your slaves, they still say that keeping slaves is an acceptable practice.
So in a way you could say all those people justifying their hatred of blacks, etc could be actually very valid in their viewpoints when they say that it's right there in the bible, and they're just doing what the bible tells them to.
Again, yeah, you can twist words to mean almost anything. But that's just not there, in the black and white, sort to speak.
Yes, it sounds like something only a nut case could do…. but the sad truth is, there's a lot of bigots out there….
Even the bigots who hates the homosexuals.

It's the nature of The bigots… if they don't have homosexuals to hate, then they'll move on to something else to hate. Somebody who they can use as an scapegoat for the “evils” of the world. And in a way the bible pretty much gives them a excuse to hate. “I'm right to hate those who are different than I am because the bible and god is backing me up! See, it says so in the bible that… blah blah blah.”
This whole thing with homosexuals is no different. So that's why I used “curing” people of their blackness and so on forth as an comparison of what could go on down further down the path.
This is true, but at what cost are you willing to draw the line? Just because some random handful of nuts decides that they're going to do something nutty and twist something into something it's not and claim that it's “because God told them” do you really punish the whole group of people? (Acknowledging I'm having trouble explaining this point without branding you with having a straw man argument.)

No, you don't get it. They're not saying people HAVE to accept it… they're saying that the religious bigots don't have ANY right to dictate what others do with their lives…inducing being an homosexual. They don't have a right to tell the lesbians and the gay men of the world that they cannot adopt children, or to even get hitched to each other in a ceremony.
They have no right to butt into others business, especially when telling others what they shouldn't do in the bedroom.
But they are morally obligated to tell people when they are doing something they find to be wrong. If I can create my own straw man here, to not be allowed to stand up and say “This is morally wrong” is the first step to Auschwitz.
Yet, that's happening. did you know that in some states they have laws against oral and anal sex, even between two straight people? They don't even allow women to own sex toys for the purpose of masturbation, nether. According to those states, the only kind of sex that's acceptable is Missionary sex with the lights off.
Oh yeah, in Missouri, there's a blue law that prohibits single men from owning sheep.
Yes, those laws aren't reinforced that much when it comes to the oral and anal sex bit, but still it's pretty appalling that they actually passed that law.

You see, it's all about the issue of violating others' lives in order to control somebody who you think should be more like you.
But I see this happening on both sides of the argument. Both are claiming moral high ground too, which makes it all the funnier.
There is no such word as “alot”. “A lot” is two words.
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Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
ozoneocean at 9:47PM, Oct. 18, 2007
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But I see this happening on both sides of the argument. Both are claiming moral high ground too, which makes it all the funnier.
I don't see this… You're STILL thinking that forcing someone to change their whole way of life is anywhere near the same thing as basically telling someone not to be mean?

Excuse me, but that reasoning is foolish.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
Aurora Moon at 1:28AM, Oct. 19, 2007
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horseboy
This is true, but at what cost are you willing to draw the line? Just because some random handful of nuts decides that they're going to do something nutty and twist something into something it's not and claim that it's “because God told them” do you really punish the whole group of people? (Acknowledging I'm having trouble explaining this point without branding you with having a straw man argument.)
I don't see how I'm punishing a whole group of people because of a few bigots… explain THAT to me. All I'm simply stating is that having certain beliefs about how things should be, doesn't mean they have the right to force that on others.

]But they are morally obligated to tell people when they are doing something they find to be wrong. If I can create my own straw man here, to not be allowed to stand up and say “This is morally wrong” is the first step to Auschwitz.

Again, you don't get it. It's fine to state something like: “It is in my opinion that I feel that what you're doing is going to send you to hell.” And just leave it at that.

But NOT THIS:
“OMG!! You're sinning so much according to my religious and moral beliefs! That means I have the right to butt into your bussiness and tell you what to do! Okay, Here's a list of what you can and cannot do in the privacy of your own home:
(insert ridlicous long list of what the poor guy can and cannot do in his own home)
I can't have you being too different than I am, after all. I will not tolerate indvality! And if you don't do what I tell you to do… let's just say I'm gonna make your life litterally a living hell. I'm just doing this for your own good… after all, I want everyone in society to be exactly just like me so that I don't need to feel uncomfortable with anything that's too different.”

After all, I'm sure YOU wouldn't like it if I told you what you could and what you couldn't do in bed with your girlfriend/wife, right? Espeically if I told you that you could only do it in some werid sex postion other than missionary, and only stick to that position.

Come to think of it, snice you feel so comfortable with the idea of people telling others what they can't do in the privacy of thier own homes…
I'll make YOU a list of what you can or what you cannot do with your girlfriend/wife if you ever happen to get one or already have one.
Horseboy, you shall adhere to the following:
1. You cannot kiss the love of your life in any way or form.
2. You cannot express any affection for her in any way! Because according to the religious and moral beliefs of the flying pasta monster, kissing and other forms of affection is evil and shall send you to hell.
3. When having sex with her, you shall only do her in the 69 position or the doggy style. Any other positions are outlawed and punishable by law!
4. If you want to earn the legal right to do your loved one in any position you wish, then you MUST have up to 15 children with the same woman.
5. To become a upstanding and righetous moral cizten just like me, you must also attend the church of the flying pasta monster every saturday and sunday as well as Friday.

Not so fun now is it?

Oh yeah, in Missouri, there's a blue law that prohibits single men from owning sheep.

Uhhh…. we're talking about CONSENTAL SEX here. And snice animals can't consent, your agruement is out.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
freefall_drift at 8:24AM, Oct. 19, 2007
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joined: 6-19-2007
Evil Emperor Nick
Freefall: Was that The Forever War by chance?
Yes! Thats it!
Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
freefall_drift at 8:30AM, Oct. 19, 2007
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posts: 260
joined: 6-19-2007
kyupol
- changing the mind pattern of pedophiles so they wont be sexually attracted to children anymore.
- changing mind patterns of the worst criminals in order to make them more productive to society.
Had this discussion, while talking about the Canadian guy they found by un spiralling his photos and the ability to tell what you were thinking by MRI.
Sure you start with Sex Offenders, and them move on to people who don't think like the group in power.
“What do you think when I say UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE and GAY MARRIAGE and GEORGE BUSH? Humm. Nope, you failed. To the reeducation farm for you. We will soon have you cured!”
Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
bobhhh at 12:55PM, Oct. 20, 2007
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joined: 5-12-2007
You know my biggest problem with Christians who wave the bible as a club to punish homosexuals and deny them the basic human dignity our creator supposedly endowed all beings with is that they selectively use the bible to justify what is in fact their own small minded prejudice.

As someone who is not religious, I still revere the teachings of Jesus. His philosophy inpired some of the greatest minds of history.

Were I to invoke the popular WWJD, I first would not judge homosexuals, because judgement is god's business. Codifyinf morals into law sullies them in the eyes of god. “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.” God's law is a guide of how to get into heaven, not a law book for man to rule over man.

Secondly, I would not make a show of my religion by pridefully proclaiming any moral highground, because god commands we pray in secret, so only he can hear, anything more makes you a braggart who is more interested in your own self aggrandizement, and not in worshipping the lord.

Third, I would remind you that Jesus commanded that if someone offends you with their actions, that you not retaiate, but offer them the other cheek. And before you claim this is naive, remember that both Dr. King and Ghandi employed this philosophy very successfully.

Lastly, I would not shun those who are different or sin and bar them from recieving sacraments, because we are all sinners. Even Jesus sat with the tax collectors, because he proclaimed that god is not just for the Hebrews, but for the Romans.

So if you are to be a true christian , and not just a duplicitous charlatan, begin acting like someone who Jesus would be proud of.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
bobhhh at 2:34PM, Oct. 20, 2007
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Back on topic, yes there is some scientific merit to exploring the nature of things including gayness, but I would argue in this instance the implication of a possible cure where no disease exists is the issue.

Sure you could say for purely scientific curiousity that there might be a gene that activates predisposition to homosexuality, but similarly there may be a gene that leads to a predisposition for devotion to watching sports.

Absent of defining homosexuality as abberrant and something that requires cure, I might suggest research be better aimed towards curing REAL ailments.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
DAJB at 5:00AM, Oct. 21, 2007
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joined: 2-23-2007
I don't suppose I'm saying anything that hasn't already been said but there are two very different issues here.

I can't see anything wrong in researching why some people are gay. After all, it's another way of saying we'll research why other people are heterosexual. You can't research one without the other and, frankly, in and of itself it's no different to researching why some people are left-handed, or blonde, or brunette, or tall, or short, or green-eyed, or sweet-toothed, or athletic or … well, not.

Like almost any question relating to science, the problem is not in the research but in the use of that research. If there really is talk of the results being used to find a “cure”, then that's despicable. People are what they are and the more diverse we are as individuals, the more interesting we are as a whole.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
Tantz Aerine at 10:26AM, Oct. 22, 2007
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joined: 10-11-2006
I haven't read the thread (I am too tired right now) and I don't know if it is sidetracked or not yet (turning into the usual ‘nature of homosexuality’ debate), but I was intrigued by the original first poster question and I want to answer that from my own point of view. :)

Therefore, I think that Psychology and Psychiatry and Biology have offered humanity great insights. I have literally seen before me lives be ruined or fixed by the effect of a single Psychologist on the life of a person or a family. It is wondrous, and scary (when you see the evil side of it).

So I do think that these sciences are to be respected and research should continue because in the end, it is better to have the clear picture so you know what to do if you want to do it rather than feel trapped or forced into a situation because you are in the middle of a maze with no way out of it.

Freedom of choice is a great thing indeed :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:07PM
horseboy at 12:21PM, Oct. 26, 2007
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ozoneocean
horseboy
But I see this happening on both sides of the argument. Both are claiming moral high ground too, which makes it all the funnier.
I don't see this… You're STILL thinking that forcing someone to change their whole way of life is anywhere near the same thing as basically telling someone not to be mean?

Excuse me, but that reasoning is foolish.
Actually, I'm using the same argument Aurora is using in that if the cure becomes common it will become mandatory, and applying it to the opposite side. The “If you don't accept homosexuality as perfectly normal and how dare you hold a different opinion,” is just as extreme and unhealthy.

Aurora Moon
I don't see how I'm punishing a whole group of people because of a few bigots… explain THAT to me. All I'm simply stating is that having certain beliefs about how things should be, doesn't mean they have the right to force that on others.
Well, no where in the Bible does it actually say that “Blacks are to be used as slaves.” That was an interpretation used by a few bigots to bring slavery into America. Then the African Immigrants who came in “normally” sued in the legal system to recreate “Cattle” slavery here. Your analogy is in now way accurate.

Again, you don't get it. It's fine to state something like: “It is in my opinion that I feel that what you're doing is going to send you to hell.” And just leave it at that.

But NOT THIS:
“OMG!! You're sinning so much according to my religious and moral beliefs! That means I have the right to butt into your business and tell you what to do! Okay, Here's a list of what you can and cannot do in the privacy of your own home:
(insert ridiculous long list of what the poor guy can and cannot do in his own home)
I can't have you being too different than I am, after all. I will not tolerate individuality! And if you don't do what I tell you to do… let's just say I'm gonna make your life literally a living hell. I'm just doing this for your own good… after all, I want everyone in society to be exactly just like me so that I don't need to feel uncomfortable with anything that's too different.”

After all, I'm sure YOU wouldn't like it if I told you what you could and what you couldn't do in bed with your girlfriend/wife, right? Especially if I told you that you could only do it in some weird sex position other than missionary, and only stick to that position.

Come to think of it, since you feel so comfortable with the idea of people telling others what they can't do in the privacy of their own homes…
I'll make YOU a list of what you can or what you cannot do with your girlfriend/wife if you ever happen to get one or already have one.
Horseboy, you shall adhere to the following:
1. You cannot kiss the love of your life in any way or form.
2. You cannot express any affection for her in any way! Because according to the religious and moral beliefs of the flying pasta monster, kissing and other forms of affection is evil and shall send you to hell.
3. When having sex with her, you shall only do her in the 69 position or the doggy style. Any other positions are outlawed and punishable by law!
4. If you want to earn the legal right to do your loved one in any position you wish, then you MUST have up to 15 children with the same woman.
5. To become a upstanding and righteous moral citizens just like me, you must also attend the church of the flying pasta monster every Saturday and Sunday as well as Friday.

Not so fun now is it?
I think someone is missing some civics lessons. Societies evolve at a very slow rate. Culture will change faster than law, and in fact there will ALWAYS be laws on the book that are outdated and confusing to the modern generation. When you are on the “cutting edge” of a societal change, yes there will be a lot of laws in your way. It is up to those craving change to persuade enough people to agree with them that a change is to be made. Even after the change, it's very rare that they go back and change an old law, but instead just pass a new one. Were they wrong to make those laws back then? Well apparently enough people though not, otherwise the law wouldn't have been created. That was the will of the people being expressed. The will of the people is now changing.

If it were all up to me, it would be something decided on a state by state basis. That way people that want to believe one way can go live in one place and those that disagree can live elsewhere. But we both know that's not possible as there are people on BOTH sides of this that like nothing more than exercising power over others who are using this issue to feed their desires.

Now, we have, in our core document of America, a line that allows anyone the ability to say what they will politically without fear of reprisal. This means, that no matter what we have to hold open the ability for people to be able to hold a different opinion. There are people on BOTH sides of this demanding the other side “sit down and shut up”. This fills me with more moral outrage than the topic itself.
Oh yeah, in Missouri, there's a blue law that prohibits single men from owning sheep.

Uhhh…. we're talking about CONSENSUAL SEX here. And since animals can't consent, your agreement is out.
Well, actually according to Washington state law, they can. Besides, the fact that you can't own sheep actually has several more societal ramifications than homosexuality.
There is no such word as “alot”. “A lot” is two words.
Voltaire
Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
bobhhh at 12:45PM, Oct. 26, 2007
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joined: 5-12-2007
kyupol
We. Are. Animals.



Speak for yourself.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Aurora Moon at 11:06PM, Oct. 26, 2007
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posts: 2,630
joined: 1-7-2006
HorseBoy–It seems that you're misunderstanding me here. I never said for people who opposite homosexuality and such to “sit down and shut up” about their beliefs and opinions.

like I said before, They can state their opinions all they want about it no matter how much I dislike some of their viewpoints. After all, I assume that they'll also grant me that same privilege. And you know something? I value the fact that we all have free will, and also the fact that we all have our own set beliefs and feelings, both good and bad.

WHAT I REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH: The fact that there's people here who apparently has no problem with stripping somebody of their free will by entertaining the very thought of an “cure” for something that they feel to be “wrong”.
I can see this being used in some other ways other than “curing” homosexuality too, which is why I'm so horrified with that notion of a “cure” myself.
What next? We cure everyone so that we all become exactly the same with no differing beliefs/feelings, etc. That's Free will being stolen away from us.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM

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