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How Cartoon Network butchered a foreign show
Eunice P at 4:30AM, Feb. 7, 2009
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This action-packed puppet show was canceled after showing only 2 episodes on CN back in 2006 due to poor ratings.

Cartoon Network version (Horrible right?):


Well, here's the actual episode:


last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
lba at 8:30AM, Feb. 7, 2009
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I dunno. It's an awesome use of puppetry, but I still just feel like it's pretty lame to watch either way. The f'd up over the top rap they slapped on top of it and the goofy graphics just made it funnier to me.

How old is that show anyway? It look positively ancient.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
Custard Trout at 8:42AM, Feb. 7, 2009
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The intro of one and ten minutes of the other isn't really a fair comparison.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:01PM
Product Placement at 8:51AM, Feb. 7, 2009
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I'll give them that. That was some impressive puppetry. That sun cross came out of nowhere. I'd sure hope no one sensitive to that sees it or he might label us as Nazi supporters.

I'm fully aware of the cultural significance of the sun cross(more famously known as the swastika) in Asian culture. It was also significant in Germanic/Scandinavian culture long before Christianity came to dominate Europe. Most people don't seem to understand that this symbol predates Hitler. Ah why the heck am I talking about this? Let's watch puppets kicking the ass of each other.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:50PM
Aurora Moon at 9:12AM, Feb. 7, 2009
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it's a given that in some cases if not most cases, the dubbing over any original voices/storyline isn't going to be good as the “real thing”.

at any rate I do remember when it aired on CN.

I think the reason why it got such low ratings was because the Dubbers clearly didn't take the show seriously at all. you had the puppets sounding like Mutant Ninja Turtles at times with the overuse of “Dudes!” “bodacious!” and other slang words in some eps.
Mutant Ninja Turtles is an fairly awesome show/game in it's own right. but when some characters out there sounds like them and yet they're NOT THE Mutant Ninja Turtles, then that's bad. Especially if they talk like a very poor version of them.

In my experience there's Three kinds of dubbers:

1) The dubber company who's actually serious in putting forth quality entertainment, and tends to do their best in finding English voice actors that matches up with the original voices, or at least will do well in conveying the characters' personality. They do very little in terms of cutting things out… usually they leave the censoring and such to the TV companies and puts uncut version on DVD. Before, this kind of dubbing company/Dubber was so rare. But thankfully now they're becoming more common.

2) The company/ dubber who thinks along the lines of:
A)Anything even remotely animated/puppet-like is thought of as “kiddy”. And not just “kiddy”, but on the same level of anything that an six-year-old would watch. So therefore they pick voice actors and such who does funny cartoonish voices, etc. They will go to lengths to change the storyline completely if they feel that it would be too much for an six-year-old, because usually they'll change the anime to be suitable for an younger audience than the older group that it was intended for originally. Victims of this reasoning was Sailor Moon (this anime did get a better dubbing company later on though), One piece, And many others.

B )Tends to have double standards in that while copious violence,etc is okay in American Cartoons they blow an gasket whenever they see any violence/etc in foreign stuff that they have to dub. So they will go to any lengths to edit fight scenes, even editing out any blood.

So basically this type of company and or dubber means well, but they go about it in the wrong way.

3) The dubbing company and or dubber who doesn't give a crap.. and they put in a lot of random crap along the way. for stuff like “Boo-boo-bo-bo-bo” or whatever the hell that anime was, it works. But for some other animes that was intended as something else, this turns into an disaster.


unfortunately for this decent puppet show, they got stuck with number three.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
seventy2 at 9:58AM, Feb. 7, 2009
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viz media is a factor of #2, although i dont think they have good intentions….

they always butcher shows…funimation or genome normally do better. (fullmetal alchemist, and neon genesis.)

take, naruto (i hear your collective groans). the first episode with true blood squirting violence, is episode six. when he stabs himself in the hand. Viz media, edits out the stabbing, and freezes on the kunai right before it stabs him…then holds it there with audio and such, till the original scene is done. and then the voices. it's like they pick the worst voice actors to do the best shows. naruto could have just as easily ended up on adult swim with shows like the big-o or cowboy bebop. and they could have just as easily ended up in toon-ami.


oooh, i just remembered. viz media owned Dragonball z, the new unedited releases are funimation.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:29PM
Inkmonkey at 2:24PM, Feb. 7, 2009
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Eunice P
How Cartoon Network butchered a foreign show

I think you mean, how Animation Collective ruined a foreign show. See, this is just like the “Islam is the Light” thread, where the news group blames Nintendo for a game that was released on their system, when really they had little to nothing to do with its production. Sure, it sucks that they encouraged this kind of behavior, but it's not their job to double-check all dubbed shows to make sure that it's faithful to the original series.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
makosuite at 3:50PM, Feb. 7, 2009
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They were both… different.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:50PM
Aurora Moon at 9:49PM, Feb. 7, 2009
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seventy2
viz media is a factor of #2, although i dont think they have good intentions….

they always butcher shows…funimation or genome normally do better. (fullmetal alchemist, and neon genesis.)

take, naruto (i hear your collective groans). the first episode with true blood squirting violence, is episode six. when he stabs himself in the hand. Viz media, edits out the stabbing, and freezes on the kunai right before it stabs him…then holds it there with audio and such, till the original scene is done. and then the voices. it's like they pick the worst voice actors to do the best shows. naruto could have just as easily ended up on adult swim with shows like the big-o or cowboy bebop. and they could have just as easily ended up in toon-ami.


oooh, i just remembered. viz media owned Dragonball z, the new unedited releases are funimation.

Ever seen any anime dubbed by 4kids? Now that company's way worse than Viz media! just take a look at one piece as proof. That shit was done by 4kids…

And they change anything even offending-sounding to super silly names.

like how The giant dung beetles in that one ep becomes “Pooper Scoopers” in the dub, and so on forth. like, a smaller, normal version of those creatures do exist in nature. If 4kids ever got asked to do a nature documentary on the real dung beetles, are they going to call those “pooper scoopers” too?

the annoying rap song they have about pirates in the start? that was a dub song… the original didn't even have that annoying rap.

and it certainly wasn't about luffy wanting to be king of all pirates. In fact, in the original Luffy wasn't so headset on being the “king” to the point that he would shoot himself if somebody else became the king. He just simply wanted to be one of the best pirates out there. Which he admittedly does. :p

it just goes something like: “wandering the seas, exploring the unknown…what a grand adventure!”

I suppose that's on the same level as the Dub Naturo screaming “Believe it!” every 20 seconds in the Viz version when he doesn't even say that in the Japanese version.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
seventy2 at 9:55PM, Feb. 7, 2009
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Aurora Moon
4kids, onepiece

i've never watched the japanese version, because i found the 2 episodes in english so annoying, that i couldnt follow.

naruto i saw in japanese first, so while i was a little sick with the english, i was already hooked…
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:29PM
Eunice P at 10:19PM, Feb. 7, 2009
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lba
I dunno. It's an awesome use of puppetry, but I still just feel like it's pretty lame to watch either way. The f'd up over the top rap they slapped on top of it and the goofy graphics just made it funnier to me.

How old is that show anyway? It look positively ancient.

The show has been around since 1980's but few of the major characters in these puppet stories has been around since few centuries ago. Ancient? Yes.

See, the thing with Americans is that most of them tend to see puppets as Sesame Street thing but they dismiss the fact that puppet is also part of ancient arts in other cultures and thus, they automatically labeled it lame.

Asian puppetry is considered centuries old art and many of the stories originally told by puppetry techniques survived over times despite the advent of TV and internet. Even till today, some puppet performances are still performed in temples and most of the scripts are definitely not the average kids' show.

It's really sad that the problem with American TV shows is that they tried to impose “American” standards over what was originally Asian culture. Thus, resulting in major lost of translation and, worst still, widen further the cultural gap of understanding. And I believe this is one of the reasons why the average American viewers tend to judge the book by the cover for this program.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
ozoneocean at 10:33PM, Feb. 7, 2009
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Eunice P
It's really sad that the problem with American TV shows is that they tried to impose “American” standards over what was originally Asian culture. Thus, resulting in major lost of translation and, worst still, widen further the cultural gap of understanding. And I believe this is one of the reasons why the average American viewers tend to judge the book by the cover for this program.
I agree 100% here. This is a cultural argument, not just a pop-cultural one. It's a shame when meaning is wilfully destroyed like that.

It'd be like turning Chichen Itza into a theme park with a waterslide down the main pyramid.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
lba at 11:41PM, Feb. 7, 2009
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Eunice P
The show has been around since 1980's but few of the major characters in these puppet stories has been around since few centuries ago. Ancient? Yes.

See, the thing with Americans is that most of them tend to see puppets as Sesame Street thing but they dismiss the fact that puppet is also part of ancient arts in other cultures and thus, they automatically labeled it lame.

Actually, I called it lame because the work shows its age. It looks like a poorly put together 80's attempt at a kids show. The puppeteers are first rate but the effects and puppets themselves look like they were hastily constructed to me.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
ozoneocean at 12:10AM, Feb. 8, 2009
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lba
Actually
…And I bet you'd be shouting “whoop!” as you shoot down the waterslide on the step pyramid at Chichen Itza… -_-
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
seventy2 at 8:14AM, Feb. 8, 2009
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ozoneocean
It'd be like turning Chichen Itza into a theme park with a waterslide down the main pyramid.

in all fairness, that sounds like fun…
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:29PM
SarahN at 10:28AM, Feb. 8, 2009
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Ha, it looks interesting to me…I'd probably watch it.^^ I just wish I could understand it. ._.

ozoneocean
I agree 100% here. This is a cultural argument, not just a pop-cultural one. It's a shame when meaning is wilfully destroyed like that.

Reminds me of what they did to Asian martial arts in America (or in many parts of it).
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:23PM
Aurora Moon at 11:57AM, Feb. 8, 2009
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seventy2
Aurora Moon
4kids, onepiece

i've never watched the japanese version, because i found the 2 episodes in english so annoying, that i couldnt follow.

naruto i saw in Japanese first, so while i was a little sick with the english, i was already hooked…

lucky for me, I managed to watch the Japanese one piece before 4kids aired it on TV.

so when they did, I was just speechless at how much they butchered it. Worse Treatment than Sailor Moon, Naturo or any other butchered Animes put together. And this was actually at the time when I was starting to see Animes getting better treatment, so I naively thought that maybe the American companies had gotten past their stupid cultural biases and were ready to treat Animes as quality entertainment in it's own right, and not something to edited to death like that. Now I'm back to being wary of Dubbers whenever they pick up a new anime to air.

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/animation/watch/v14133139HjCPdnte

when you watch the Japanese intro to one piece, you have to admit it's better than that annoying rap song. and then of course the voices are better, etc.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
PIT_FACE at 11:59AM, Feb. 8, 2009
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makosuite
They were both… different.

nods in sober agreement.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:44PM
lba at 12:53PM, Feb. 8, 2009
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lba
Actually
…And I bet you'd be shouting “whoop!” as you shoot down the waterslide on the step pyramid at Chichen Itza… -_-

No, I'd be worrying that the materials they used to hold down the slide are going to collapse under the weight of the fat Americans going down and how bog of holes will result when that happens.

I respect the story and the culture, I just think the visual part of the show doesn't look that well put together. But for that matter, I happen to find He Man and Thundercats to be some of the worst examples of American culture ever and they get lauded as some of the mainstays for my generation.

If I'm attempting to impose a standard of anything on it, it's a standard of good craftmanship, which is something every culture I know of values.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
Eunice P at 1:15AM, Feb. 15, 2009
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lba
I respect the story and the culture, I just think the visual part of the show doesn't look that well put together…

Here's the fact, the show was produced 8 years ago with minimal budget. Plus, the craftsmanship for most puppeteers aren't young people. Given the time to grow, the show actually did improve in quality over the time thanks to the support of the viewers:



PIT_FACE
makosuite
They were both… different.

nods in sober agreement.

Nope, they are the same. It's a long running series with the same characters since 1980's. The only difference was the period the show was produced.

Fact: Did you know that when the original producer of the show first watched the American version of “Wulin Warriors”, he was deeply disappointed at how much all of his original characters were completely messed up? The story of the show was intended to be serious but Animation Collective made it into a comedy series.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
lba at 1:54PM, Feb. 15, 2009
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Eunice P
lba
I respect the story and the culture, I just think the visual part of the show doesn't look that well put together…

Here's the fact, the show was produced 8 years ago with minimal budget. Plus, the craftsmanship for most puppeteers aren't young people. Given the time to grow, the show actually did improve in quality over the time thanks to the support of the viewers:

You didn't mention the minimal budget before. That makes a bit of a difference in what it gets judged against so far as what can be afforded in quality.

When you compare it to that clip, it almost becomes like talking about a completely different show. The newer clip does a lot more justice to the material than the old one. The difference is what would make me watch it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
Lonnehart at 4:08PM, Feb. 15, 2009
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Great…. This show just reminded me of another “butchered” show… The Super Science Ninja Team, better known in the U.S. as “Battle of the Planets” and “G-Force”. Lots of the show were cut up and edited. Not sure who did the first editing, but CN made things even worse. It's a good thing that ADV has the entire unedited series on DVD now.

Come to think of it, a lot of shows that came to the states were also butchered. Violent scenes cut out, the rest having sugar poured on top. If I remember correctly, Voltron had only 7 voice actors during it's entire run. They probably had a really low budget or really expensive voice actors.

About that show… I remember seeing it. And I remember turning it off when I heard one of the characters talking like a surfer dude… x_x
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
anise shaw at 12:14AM, Feb. 16, 2009
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Wait, Westerners ruined something foreign? Noooo… I don't believe you.

Cool puppets though, I don't think I would have watched it no matter the language or country.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
bravo1102 at 2:52AM, Feb. 18, 2009
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As a big fan of Gerry and Sylvia Anderson Supermarionation, it's great. Seeing puppets do the typical anime matial arts/magic stuff was fresh. The effects are similar to say Terrahawks but being a different genre look cheesy when they are just standard stage effects which show up in lots and lots of Asian Kung Fu movies. Gosh, we're spoiled aren't we? ;)

We're spoiled.

Ever see the original dub of Galaxy Express 999 where Captain Harlock was a poor John Wayne inmitation? Now that's funny and sad. Some older anime when dubbed were cut so much parts of the stories no longer made sense.

As for the Mayan water park: it was shelved when Disney pulled out of the EPCOT:Pre-Columbian Central America. No amount of white wash could get them past the whole human sacrifice thing. lol!


last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
spaz at 5:26PM, Feb. 26, 2009
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bravo1102
As for the Mayan water park: it was shelved when Disney pulled out of the EPCOT:Pre-Columbian Central America. No amount of white wash could get them past the whole human sacrifice thing. lol!




I agree, If only Americans could embrace other cultures properly, we'd have acceptable Anime and Human Sacrificing Water parks.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
tiffawolf at 1:07PM, March 25, 2009
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wow,japan has some pretty impressive puppitry going on
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
cool guy at 5:16PM, March 29, 2009
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That action was awesome
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:45AM
Eunice P at 7:45AM, April 2, 2009
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tiffawolf
wow,japan has some pretty impressive puppitry going on

It's actually from Taiwan. Taiwan is pretty much a place where plenty of Japanese and Chinese cultures are blended together yet it has it's own distinctive identity.

If you hear carefully the language spoken in Taiwanese is very different from Japanese.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
Puff_Of_Smoke at 1:25PM, April 2, 2009
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Cartoon Network butchers everything they see. It's run by crazy axe men who were put out of work because of Mechanization, you see. They just happen to able to count money and animate.
tiffawolf
wow,japan has some pretty impressive puppitry going on
As said above, it is Taiwanese. I must add that when I lived on those stinky Japanese islands any person from the school I went to were attempting to spread a rumour among those fishy islands and tourists that Taiwan is China, Japan and Korea having a threesome.

Tell all your friends.
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humorman at 1:44PM, April 2, 2009
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Did you know that Taiwan is the Republic of China, while China itself is the People's Republic of China?


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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:51PM

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