Debate and Discussion

How is rape hot?
Eternity at 5:53PM, Dec. 18, 2006
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So I finally got around to reading the Nemution Jewel archives. I was thinking ‘A yaoi in the top 5? Must be good’ but now, it just made me wonder how many sick girls there are on the net. I was always told that it was guys to watch out for when it came to the net, but if something like NJ is popular, then I'm kinda worried about the girls too.

What am I on about? This comic has so little plot not even the author can identify it. The entire story is based on a boy (Who I'm estimating is between 13 and 15) being raped by demons because he merged with some crystal. That doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that the rape is why it's popular.

I've seen all the comments on the pages with graphic sexual assault and it appears this what the comic's read for. The kid is crying, bleeding and begging for it to end. Call me insane or a lesbian or whatever you want, but that stuff turns me off. Yeah, the guys are kinda hot and Chucha's just adorable, but it's like the girls who read it think it's nothing.

Now, onto the conflict. I once saw a comic on an old webcomic site I used to hang out at (Lost the link ages ago) where a woman was violently raped in almost the same manner we see on NJ (With almost the same amount of graphic detail). What happened? The comic was seen as appalling and the author was banned from the site. Then a few days later I see all the girls who rallied to get the comic evicted talking about (You guessed it) Nemution Jewel and how it was so hot, on the girls only forums.

I'm not saying take it down (I'm all for freedom of speech and that) but doesn't any one find it disturbing that a lot of the girls who read this stuff have nothing more to say than ‘Poor Chucha’?

PS I have heard there's more stuff out there like this so don't accuse me of being ignorant or something like that. I'm just stating my opinion
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:22PM
Phantom Penguin at 5:51AM, Dec. 19, 2006
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NOTE: that comics veiw numbers are going to skyrocket from this.

But i agree. I've seen it and it kind of makes me sick. And i've seen some twisted crap.
Why is it popular? Human beings revel in the pain of others i suppose.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
mapaghimagsik at 9:10AM, Dec. 19, 2006
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Phantom Penguin
NOTE: that comics veiw numbers are going to skyrocket from this.

But i agree. I've seen it and it kind of makes me sick. And i've seen some twisted crap.
Why is it popular? Human beings revel in the pain of others i suppose.

Yeah, spot on. Thanks for the heads up. I'll avoid that one. I think it has to do with that rape is all about power and not about sex. I think its why many people get into the pain and suffering of others. Its the power rush.

Working closely with those in corrections shows that there's a lot of training (constant training, by the way) and such that goes into making sure the situation isn't taken to wrong extremes. The very best people get tainted by the power relationship, as Gitmo and Abu Ghraib demonstrate.

Bummer, that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Aurora Moon at 9:10AM, Dec. 19, 2006
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Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the rape myself….

I happen to think that the girls who read that stuff must have some kind of grudge against guys, you know?

rape, whenever it be fictional or not, against any kind of genders at all… is pretty horrible no matter how you look at it.

but there's some guys out there that finds the idea of rape hot too. like I've seen some guys on the net say something like: “You're so ugly not even anybody would want to rape you…” to some girl once. like rape was some kind of twisted complient.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
ozoneocean at 9:47AM, Dec. 19, 2006
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It's important to realise that rape and comics about rape are separated by the vast ocean that separates fantasy entertainment from reality. Don't get the two mixed up.

If you're talking about comics with images of sexual violence in them, why do they depict sexual violence: Is it in order to make a serious point of some sort, or is it merely titillating?

But why might females find images of men being sexually assaulted exciting? Perhaps because the power relationship is reversed. Rape involves a sexual situation where one partner dominates the other, is able to subvert the weaker party to their will so that they may do with this person what they will. It is sex at its most selfish: Masturbation, only with a partner! And perhaps that is the appeal of rape in fantasy: the enjoyment of fantasy is a solitary experience, akin to masturbation, when reading these sexual fantasies the viewer can perhaps imagine themselves inflicting these sexual tortures on the imaginary character and enjoy it simply because it is an imaginary character. They are free to imagine themselves sexually dominant, in full control etc, which fits perfectly with the solitary experience of the fantasy and not have to worry about the hurt and pain suffered by a real person because no real people are involved. The sexual tortures depicted are just contextual symbols of the dominance of the reader and the importance of their sexual needs in relation to those of the fantasy victim.

I'm simply trying to answer the question in the topic here, I don't endorse rape comics myself or actively pursue them, this is just my attempt to understand them.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:25PM
Phantom Penguin at 11:00AM, Dec. 19, 2006
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ozoneocean
It's important to realise that rape and comics about rape are separated by the vast ocean that separates fantasy entertainment from reality. Don't get the two mixed up.

If you're talking about comics with images of sexual violence in them, why do they depict sexual violence: Is it in order to make a serious point of some sort, or is it merely titillating?

But why might females find images of men being sexually assaulted exciting? Perhaps because the power relationship is reversed. Rape involves a sexual situation where one partner dominates the other, is able to subvert the weaker party to their will so that they may do with this person what they will. It is sex at its most selfish: Masturbation, only with a partner! And perhaps that is the appeal of rape in fantasy: the enjoyment of fantasy is a solitary experience, akin to masturbation, when reading these sexual fantasies the viewer can perhaps imagine themselves inflicting these sexual tortures on the imaginary character and enjoy it simply because it is an imaginary character. They are free to imagine themselves sexually dominant, in full control etc, which fits perfectly with the solitary experience of the fantasy and not have to worry about the hurt and pain suffered by a real person because no real people are involved. The sexual tortures depicted are just contextual symbols of the dominance of the reader and the importance of their sexual needs in relation to those of the fantasy victim.
I'm simply trying to answer the question in the topic here, I don't endorse rape comics myself or actively pursue them, this is just my attempt to understand them.

You make a good point. a very good point.
I remember i read a book in psyc class that talked about artists mindset when they draw/create. It said most the time the art had ‘diped their finger’ in the subject
Or wish to.

i don't know. im just throwing it out there.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
LIZARD_B1TE at 5:49PM, Dec. 19, 2006
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Most people don't really seem to understand rape anyway. Like many other crimes out there, people are completely desensitized to it and might even find it funny, because their so used to hearing about it, it doesn't seem wrong to them.

I can't even comprehend the idea of rape being used as entertainment. The only times I add rape into a story I write is to bring out a serious point. Rape is one of the few things that I think can never be funny. I mean, Dark Comedies use stuff like murder and whatnot in comedic ways, but I just don't find rape funny no matter how it is portrayed.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:36PM
jakey926 at 6:38PM, Dec. 27, 2006
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well i've been reading nemution jewel for awhile, but i dont mind the rape… even if i am straight as a fence post i still think it's kind of a ‘unique’ idea iin a fantasy comic.
the only thing dumber than this signature is the one who's reading it…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
MagickLorelai at 1:38PM, Dec. 28, 2006
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I've never read the comic in question, but I don't understand why people find rape appealing. It's one of those things, “If they actually understood the experience, they wouldn't be glorifying it”. That it's terrifying, and renders the victim scarred for life. There's probably an artistic or psychological reason for the rape in the comic, but that doesn't bother me; it's the fans who swoon over it more than other stuff.

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:50PM
Piscareous at 12:14AM, Dec. 29, 2006
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I used to have that comic in my fav's list. I always meant to go back and read, but i'm not to sure now. Im not into that kind of thing, male or female.
“Censorship is the child of fear and the father of ignorance”
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:44PM
Locoma at 12:14PM, Jan. 2, 2007
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so I went to NJ to see what you were talking about… read the first chapter, found nothing special, click the nav bar and… WTF!! 800+ pages!!!!! I QUIT!
so that's why I don't last long in the recent updates list
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
marine at 8:02PM, Jan. 2, 2007
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That comics rape was not funny at all. In fact, its just creepy. If I was an admin, he would be B& and party V&. Seriously, rape's funny as hell, but gay manga rape is not funny at all. How that managed to have over 800 pages is beyond me.


I love having opinions on the internet.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
Eternity at 11:03PM, Jan. 2, 2007
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jakey926
well i've been reading nemution jewel for awhile, but i dont mind the rape… even if i am straight as a fence post i still think it's kind of a ‘unique’ idea iin a fantasy comic.

See, this is what I'm talking about. It's there, but nobody cares (And what makes it so unique?)

marine
That comics rape was not funny at all. In fact, its just creepy. If I was an admin, he would be B& and party V&. Seriously, rape's funny as hell, but gay manga rape is not funny at all. How that managed to have over 800 pages is beyond me.


I love having opinions on the internet.

Yeah, you need therapy, badly
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:22PM
Vindibudd at 8:18AM, Jan. 3, 2007
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Rape is not hot. Power is hot. People like seeing that they have power over others. This has already been said before but the thing is that rape is a sex crime only in that it involves the body. It is really a power crime and is someone who has no right to something, taking it anyway. That is what is wrong and that is what wars have been fought over.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
marine at 7:41PM, Jan. 9, 2007
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Eternity
Yeah, you need therapy, badly

Therapy is against my religious beliefs. I'm a christian scientist, and god awnsers all of my whiney blame my parents problems.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
Eirikr at 7:49PM, Jan. 14, 2007
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Not to be flaming, but exactly how much science is involved in christian science? Specific examples, if possible. I just need some clarification.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:19PM
marine at 10:08PM, Jan. 14, 2007
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Eirikr
Not to be flaming, but exactly how much science is involved in christian science? Specific examples, if possible. I just need some clarification.

100% Science. We have scientists working around the clock trying to find god.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
bloodstaindstoat at 9:27PM, Jan. 16, 2007
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marine
100% Science. We have scientists working around the clock trying to find god.

I'd like to see some articles on this before I've laughed my ass entirely off my body.
One, Two, Three and…

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:27AM
ozoneocean at 9:18AM, Jan. 17, 2007
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I can't belive you guys fell for Marine's bait, it's an OBVIOUS joke. Come on, have some sense. Maybe you guys should actually become real Christian Scientists. lol!

Or perhaps the debate topic needs to be gotten back to hmm? ;)

Well, Rape themed stuff is really, really popular in hentai. A lot of it involving young women (sometimes young men) and multi phalused “tentacle” monsters, who could perhaps better be described as “prehensile penis monters”… What's the reason for such popularity? I mean, the acts dsplayed are utterly unrealistic and fanciful, and the “victims” generally start enjoying the acts after a while anyway. I'd say that this is a good examle of why these sorts of images of “rape” have nothing at all to do with "rape". They're so uttellry divorced from reality as to be ludicrous in many senses. It has more to do with basic sexual psychology than anything else, with a particular focus on domination and submission.

You have to learn to distnguish fantastical imagery from reality… because if you can't, then I'll be worried that you are a dangerous person who would actually rape or kill someone if you saw such a thing happen in a video game, movie or comic. Will a comic, movie, or game make you do that? Then you're mentally bellow 80% of the human race. ;)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:25PM
bloodstaindstoat at 6:25PM, Jan. 17, 2007
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ozoneocean
I can't belive you guys fell for Marine's bait, it's an OBVIOUS joke. Come on, have some sense. Maybe you guys should actually become real Christian Scientists. lol!

I… It was late. D'oh.
One, Two, Three and…

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:27AM
kyupol at 6:27AM, Jan. 25, 2007
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Eternity
So I finally got around to reading the Nemution Jewel archives. I was thinking ‘A yaoi in the top 5? Must be good’ but now, it just made me wonder how many sick girls there are on the net. I was always told that it was guys to watch out for when it came to the net, but if something like NJ is popular, then I'm kinda worried about the girls too.

What am I on about? This comic has so little plot not even the author can identify it. The entire story is based on a boy (Who I'm estimating is between 13 and 15) being raped by demons because he merged with some crystal. That doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that the rape is why it's popular.

I've seen all the comments on the pages with graphic sexual assault and it appears this what the comic's read for. The kid is crying, bleeding and begging for it to end. Call me insane or a lesbian or whatever you want, but that stuff turns me off. Yeah, the guys are kinda hot and Chucha's just adorable, but it's like the girls who read it think it's nothing.

Now, onto the conflict. I once saw a comic on an old webcomic site I used to hang out at (Lost the link ages ago) where a woman was violently raped in almost the same manner we see on NJ (With almost the same amount of graphic detail). What happened? The comic was seen as appalling and the author was banned from the site. Then a few days later I see all the girls who rallied to get the comic evicted talking about (You guessed it) Nemution Jewel and how it was so hot, on the girls only forums.

I'm not saying take it down (I'm all for freedom of speech and that) but doesn't any one find it disturbing that a lot of the girls who read this stuff have nothing more to say than ‘Poor Chucha’?

PS I have heard there's more stuff out there like this so don't accuse me of being ignorant or something like that. I'm just stating my opinion

Trust me. Girls like to be raped (and watch others get raped… or DO THE RAPING themselves). They are just extremely skillful at denying it.







NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
kyupol at 6:52AM, Jan. 25, 2007
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Drunkduck is pretty liberal though as far as posting of hardcore stuff is concerned.


Just try not to offend the State Religion of America.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Kristen Gudsnuk at 9:33PM, Feb. 1, 2007
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well, I've read Nemution Jewel, and I don't read it for sexual kicks. In fact, generally I tend to guiltily skim through the rape parts… but in my opinion, it's a really good comic. Sure, there are some chronic misspellings, and it doesn't have the world's strongest plot, but it has great character development! For some odd reason I can just sink into the characters completely. For example, the main character Chucha is such a martyr it makes my soul hurt! But I love literary martyrs. He's always getting hurt (and raped >_< ) but somehow he doesn't lose that adorable innocence. And Miatomo was a really intriguing character too… and of course Koto– he's this demon who pretends that he's heartless and uncaring, but deep down inside, Chucha's warmth is teaching him how to love again…. *sniff*
Sorry for going off on that tangent, I just felt like NJ deserved some defending. ^,^ cause it's AWESOME!!!
And on to the topic at hand:
(btw this is theoretically speaking and in no way reflects my own opinion/whatever..)
It makes complete sense for rape to be considered sexually appealing. Especially in a Christian society where sex is viewed as evil, rape fantasies are the “easy way out” for certain people. Like, they don't have to worry about being unclean for soliciting or enjoying sex, because they were “forced” into it.
Also, the coupling of sex with emotion enhances it, right? For instance, they say that ladies are sexually sated a lot more easily when there is a real romantic connection between the partners and the lights and mood are right. Well, obviously rape fills sex with a crapload of emotion. It may be negative emotions, but that dynamic of actually feeling something very strongly *while* having intercourse would probably be sexually stimulating.
But people don't really like being raped, I don't think— well, I once read a book (“Choke” by Chuck Palahniuk! ) where one of the characters elaborately staged being raped to get her jollies, but I'd imagine that most people don't go to that extreme… like, going to see scary movies doesn't mean you want your house to be haunted with bloodthirsty ghosts… so it's probably mostly interior, which would suggest that rape being hot is psychologically rooted.
Finally, gender roles would have an impact. I read this article once (arrgh I forget where!! It was in cosmo or glamour or something… yeah, sometimes I read those… what of it?! hehe) about these women who go to this really controversial camp where gender roles are really, really strictly enforced to the point of brainwashing. And some women are repelled by its backwards message of “be the support system for your husband! be the perfect wife! always cheerful and servile!”, but some women fell into its suggestion very easily, and said that joining the cult of domesticity saved their floundering marriages. If someone is feeling lost in society, it can feel nice to have gender roles reinforced, so that one actually knows where one should be and doesn't have to worry about all that existential “what is my purpose? what shall I do?” stuff.
On the same note as that, some women want to be dominated (or want to imagine themselves being dominated, as is probably the oftener case) because they want to know who they are, how they should behave, and be treated.

Now, I personally don't like that stuff. All the stories I've written generally have odd gender roles… and to a lesser extent since it doesn't have as much room for introspection, my comic has slightly shifted gender-based identities. And I find kyupol's signature oddly very depressing: “You're a man. You're genetically predisposed to go out and grab the fucking world by the fucking balls, and to squeeze them until it gives you what you want.” (sorry kyupol! ^^ we can still be friends though!!) So don't think I'm sexist. These are just my incoherent musings as I struggle with the procrastination bug.
the end!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:22PM
skoolmunkee at 2:08AM, Feb. 3, 2007
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kyupol
Trust me. Girls like to be raped (and watch others get raped… or DO THE RAPING themselves). They are just extremely skillful at denying it.

Haha, what? I really hope you were trying to be sarcastic. I really wish I could ban people for being misogynists. Or just for being stupid.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:39PM
kyupol at 8:29AM, Feb. 3, 2007
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skoolmunkee
kyupol
Trust me. Girls like to be raped (and watch others get raped… or DO THE RAPING themselves). They are just extremely skillful at denying it.

Haha, what? I really hope you were trying to be sarcastic. I really wish I could ban people for being misogynists. Or just for being stupid.

Waah!!! I'm always misunderstood!!! Nobody loves me… WAAAH!!!

I'd now go back to my room and cut my wrists until my hand falls off. Then I'd video it and post it in youtube and tell the world that skoolmunkee is so mean she made me cut off my hands by hurting my feelings so bad. I love women and I'm called a mysoginist. Waah. I am so misunderstood. I'm just so oppressed that I'll just dress in black all the time. :(

Then afterwards, after getting all the attention, I'd put it back. After all, my hand is a robot.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
skoolmunkee at 9:32AM, Feb. 3, 2007
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kyupol
I'd now go back to my room and cut my wrists until my hand falls off. Then I'd video it and post it in youtube and tell the world that skoolmunkee is so mean she made me cut off my hands by hurting my feelings so bad.

If you actually did that then you'd have more problems than I ever caused you. :)
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:39PM
ozoneocean at 10:31AM, Feb. 3, 2007
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Kyupol and Skool, get back to the debate or get married! Grrrrr :gem:

lol!

Anyway, this is a horrible subject and the debate seems to have gone south, so I'm going to lock it now.
-skool, you can unlock it again of course if you want :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:25PM

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